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Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:15 PM

 

Are there any non-racist arguments against giving full voting rights and representation to DC?

I can't think of any.

22 replies, 953 views

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Reply Are there any non-racist arguments against giving full voting rights and representation to DC? (Original post)
leftlibdem420 Nov 2012 OP
loli phabay Nov 2012 #1
Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #10
loli phabay Nov 2012 #14
Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #2
elleng Nov 2012 #3
freshwest Nov 2012 #4
loli phabay Nov 2012 #5
elleng Nov 2012 #6
freshwest Nov 2012 #18
loli phabay Nov 2012 #19
elleng Nov 2012 #21
elleng Nov 2012 #8
hughee99 Nov 2012 #12
elleng Nov 2012 #15
freshwest Nov 2012 #20
upi402 Nov 2012 #11
jberryhill Nov 2012 #7
TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #9
IllinoisBirdWatcher Nov 2012 #13
elleng Nov 2012 #16
IllinoisBirdWatcher Nov 2012 #17
elleng Nov 2012 #22

Response to leftlibdem420 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:18 PM

1. better just to roll it into maryland. it makes more sense.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:50 PM

10. It wouldn't make sense to DC residents

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:04 PM

14. well its not a state so no senators. would also take forever to change stuff

 

The feeling i have is that it would be easier and no where near as arduous simply to return the area to md.

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Response to leftlibdem420 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:19 PM

2. Of course.

DC would vote overwhelmingly Democratic.

If you're a Republican, you wouldn't want a full rights extended to a territory like that regardless of its racial composition.

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Response to leftlibdem420 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:25 PM

3. Its a political argument, racism-related but not directly.

50 % of the population is African American AND DC voted maybe the highest % of any 'state' for PrezO, 91.4%. Repugs don't want to give that additional Democratic vote to DC in Congress/Senate.

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Response to leftlibdem420 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:28 PM

4. I can't even think of philosophical or pragmatic reasons. We have people from PR, the

Last edited Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:40 PM - Edit history (1)

territories and ex-pats voting. This appears to be some antique foolishness.

They are citizens, not hamsters running the wheels of government. They vote for their own mayor. Why not have a say?

The only practical reasons I can imagine would be three, but someone who lives there may have more knowledge:

1) With such a small area, how would representation be figured?

2) How many residents of D.C. are already registered in neighboring areas, so how would that not be illegal?

3) What effect would that have on the votes of the many Representatives, Senators, diplomats and others who are not truly confined to voting there, so what process would need to be in place to prevent abusing the process?

Maybe those who oppose it, can't think of a way to resolve those questions. Although I fee racism is part of it.






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Response to freshwest (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:34 PM

5. i think the preferred option has been to roll into md for the house and senate

 

Geographically it makes sense and would probuably pass congress without to much fuss.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:37 PM

6. DC residents DO vote for POTUS, fresh,

we (I lived in DC for 20+ years, so still 'we!') don't have a voting representative in Congress.

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Response to elleng (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:34 PM

18. I started to add, tell me the facts, thanks. Now,

is D.C. somehow represented as part of the state of VA? It has a mayor, votes for POTUS, has only one representative, who cannot vote in Congress...

So the apportionment is settled, then? Why can't that vote be counted? Are they just advising, was that just a scrap handed to D.C.?

I can understand not making D. C. into a state like Puerto Rico, granting a senator, etc., because it's not that large. But it's the size of regular congressional district.

Why not just add it to the state of VA? Since Reston, VA adjoins it, or so I've been told. It seems a no-brainer.

And I was just about to nod off when I wrote that, if people want to inform me, feel free. Dammit, we have so many people, including those on reservations and in so many others situations, whose vote is not being counted.

By not taking their votes, the promise of equality is cheapened for all of us.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:45 PM

19. no dc is north of the river and ajoins maryland

 

The part that used to be in va was returned a long time ago.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:02 PM

21. No, fresh, not AT ALL represented by ANY VA entity,

AND, we're actually contiguous to MD, separated from VA by Potomac River. (but our airport, NATIONAL, IS in VA!) fyi, Reston is about 20 miles from DC.

And we'd be more comfortable in MD, imo, as its more reliably Dem than is VA. (Sorry that this takes the discussion into politics, but that's what its about anyway.)

Was similarly nodding off while trying to come up with info and statistics about how much DC spends out of its own coffers to fund police coverage for federal events, such as inaugurations, AND the REGULAR passage along streets of POTUS and other dignitaries visiting Federal officials and events. AND would like to compare w amounts of federal tax monies states like Alabama and Mississippi receive, with contributions made by taxpayers of places like DC AND CA and NY.

AND DC is regularly victimized by repug congresses on such matters as vouchers AND conceptive coverage! They use us as guinea pigs.

About DC non-voting Delegate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_voting_rights

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Response to freshwest (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:42 PM

8. Some states probably have smaller populations; haven't checked recently.

Few DC residents registered in 'neighboring' areas, imo. (Lived in DC 20+ years, and never heard of such.)

The reps and senators who are representing their home areas surely vote away from DC. I don't understand what 'abusing the process' means.

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:57 PM

12. Only Wyoming, if I understand correctly. n/t

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:21 PM

15. DC 617,996

Wyoming 568,158, 50th

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:53 PM

20. Since repukes were caught voting in two states, just sayin'

I don't think Democrats would dare to do such a thing, if they wanted to do it, and I don't believe any of them do. That's what I meant by abusing the process.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:53 PM

11. "This appears to be some antique foolishness."

bingo!

Political disenfranchisement is NFG.

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Response to leftlibdem420 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:40 PM

7. Is there a reason not to give it back to Maryland?

The land was ceded by Maryland pursuant to the Constitutional provision that the federal government exercise sole jurisdiction over a district to be created thereby. If the Constitution is amended to eliminate the exclusive federal district, then why not give the land back to Maryland, who gave it up in the first place.

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Response to leftlibdem420 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:42 PM

9. Political, too many Democrats and no Reich Wing territory to balance it

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Response to leftlibdem420 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:00 PM

13. Yes, many of them. Citizens there already HAVE FULL VOTING RIGHTS.

The voting issue does not exist. The 23rd amendment granted full voting rights to citizens in DC. They have 3 electors in the Electoral College. The predominantly Democratic voters in DC count today just like any other American citizen. Any racial complaints are non-issues.

DC is NOT a state. It is a federal reserve created by and supervised by the US Congress. The purpose was so that no state could claim being home of the national capital.

As to the local management issues, DC now has one single municipal government with a Mayor and 13 council members similar to any other large city. One historical complaint from DC residents has been that Congress can overrule the local government. However, that argument is now greatly weakened since Michigan now has the same authority over all its municipal governments.

Unlike a state, we ALL support the growth and maintenance of DC through federal taxes. A huge portion of the real estate in the district falls under the care of the National Park Service for which every citizen pays.

The founders deliberately, and I think wisely, did not treat the District as another state. I think we would be wise not to change that now.

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Response to IllinoisBirdWatcher (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:31 PM

16. Rationale for not providing DC residents with VOTING rights in CONGRESS?

Wyoming's 568,158 residents have congressmember and 2 Senators, DC's 617,996 have NO voting members.

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Response to elleng (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:05 PM

17. Wyoming is a state. DC belongs to all citizens.

That distinction was deliberate and for valid reasons. And some of us think it still is. One of the trade-offs for living in a federal reserve to which we all contribute.

I am strongly against granting the District of Columbia statehood because it was never meant to be a state and in my opinion never should be. And I don't think ANY 10 sq. mile city deserves to be treated as a state with two Senators. If that is logical, then Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York should petition to each have their own pair of senators.

Since the argument seems to be about fairness, why should the 617,996 citizens of Washington, DC be given a pair of Senators when the 8,244,910 citizens of New york City have none? Or maybe New York could split back into its five buroughs and ask for 10 Senators.

House representation is a different matter in my opinion. Since it is based upon population, I could see the DC Member of Congress being given a vote in the House. However, just like the 23rd Amendment granted DC citizens Presidential voting rights, another amendment would be required to do this - without creating a city-state.

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Response to IllinoisBirdWatcher (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:04 PM

22. 'never meant to be a state and in my opinion never should be'

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