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Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:05 PM

 

What would your opinion be of a Senator who said this?

"Q: Senator, if one of your daughters asked you—and maybe they already have—“Daddy, did god really create the world in 6 days?,” what would you say?

A: What I've said to them is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it … it may not be 24-hour days, and that's what I believe. I know there's always a debate between those who read the Bible literally and those who don't, and I think it's a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I'm a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live—that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible: That, I don't presume to know."

What with all the Rubio ruckus, I would like to know what you think.

89 replies, 4180 views

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Reply What would your opinion be of a Senator who said this? (Original post)
MadHound Nov 2012 OP
rgbecker Nov 2012 #1
Iggo Nov 2012 #2
JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2012 #3
Justpat Nov 2012 #31
MineralMan Nov 2012 #58
louis-t Nov 2012 #4
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #86
cali Nov 2012 #5
SidDithers Nov 2012 #8
Enrique Nov 2012 #53
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #59
Enrique Nov 2012 #64
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #68
Enrique Nov 2012 #76
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #78
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #75
Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2012 #6
SidDithers Nov 2012 #7
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #27
msanthrope Nov 2012 #71
Cirque du So-What Nov 2012 #88
dionysus Nov 2012 #83
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #9
Jamastiene Nov 2012 #10
yesphan Nov 2012 #62
MadHound Nov 2012 #11
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #12
MadHound Nov 2012 #15
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #20
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #22
MadHound Nov 2012 #25
cali Nov 2012 #63
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #67
Sheepshank Nov 2012 #14
MadHound Nov 2012 #24
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #29
MadHound Nov 2012 #36
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #41
cali Nov 2012 #21
MadHound Nov 2012 #28
MineralMan Nov 2012 #30
SidDithers Nov 2012 #37
dionysus Nov 2012 #84
Whisp Nov 2012 #13
slackmaster Nov 2012 #16
MadHound Nov 2012 #18
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #23
MadHound Nov 2012 #32
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #35
MadHound Nov 2012 #42
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #44
The Straight Story Nov 2012 #45
The Straight Story Nov 2012 #49
cali Nov 2012 #66
surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #17
treestar Nov 2012 #19
MineralMan Nov 2012 #26
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #33
MadHound Nov 2012 #34
MineralMan Nov 2012 #39
MadHound Nov 2012 #50
MineralMan Nov 2012 #54
elleng Nov 2012 #38
cali Nov 2012 #40
MadHound Nov 2012 #43
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #48
cali Nov 2012 #57
SidDithers Nov 2012 #46
Tikki Nov 2012 #47
Enrique Nov 2012 #51
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #52
Agnosticsherbet Nov 2012 #55
maxrandb Nov 2012 #56
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #60
graham4anything Nov 2012 #61
MineralMan Nov 2012 #65
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #69
MineralMan Nov 2012 #72
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #74
dawg Nov 2012 #70
Initech Nov 2012 #73
RandySF Nov 2012 #77
patrice Nov 2012 #79
liberalmuse Nov 2012 #80
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #81
cali Nov 2012 #87
kentuck Nov 2012 #82
solara Nov 2012 #85
lunatica Nov 2012 #89

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:08 PM

1. This is a man who doesn't want to go to Hell.

The church has driven it into his head and he is afraid to say what he realizes is true...Wasn't 6 days 6000 years ago.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:11 PM

2. My opinion would be "S/He's probably a christian."

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:14 PM

3. He'd have done it in five days, but fjords are very complicated. nt

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:52 PM

31. LOL.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:11 PM

58. Not so complicated if you use fractals.

I'm sure any deity worth its salt would use fractals a lot in creating a universe. Real timesavers, they are.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:17 PM

4. Probably Sen. Obama. It sounds like someone

trying to explain what we had to learn as children, that creationism could go hand in hand with evolution. We knew the stories in the Bible were meant for people who didn't have a good grasp of science in a time that people rarely ventured very far from where they were born.

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Response to louis-t (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:36 PM

86. +1 nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:20 PM

5. I would think that that's President Obama speaking. Cute of you to play this

little game. Only problem with it is that the President has made it clear that he does NOT believe that Creationism or Intelligent Design should be taught in Science classes.

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Response to cali (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:28 PM

8. Yeah, that was a pretty transparent attempt, wasn't it...nt

Sid

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Response to cali (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:08 PM

53. except much of the criticism of Rubio

has nothing to do with education, but about how he answered that question. In fact NONE of the discussion that I have seen was about education.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #53)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:13 PM

59. Rubio stated he supported teaching creationism without stating

that he believes in science or in scientifically proven phenomena like evolution.

That's kind of relevant to the entire discussion.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:22 PM

64. the GQ interview had nothing about teaching

it was simply a question about his beliefs, which is what ignited all the criticism. Beliefs which are substantially the same as what Obama said.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:30 PM

68. He mentioned the teaching of creationism in the GQ quote getting

circulation.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #68)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:41 PM

76. I see that now, and of course that is problematic

but I will repeat, the gist of most of the criticism of Rubio (actually ALL the criticism I saw), is that Rubio's answer is WRONG.

For example the DU graphic yesterday, said "CORRECT ANSWER: 4.5 billion years." If one feels that way about Rubio's answer, then they should feel exactly the same about Obama's answer, where he also waffled on that correct answer. I'm very confident that a more nuanced look at Obama's and Rubio's views on evolution would yield big differences, especially about teaching, but that's not what happened with Rubio yesterday.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #76)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:43 PM

78. Except Obama was talking about how to answer a 6 year old.

Rubio was addressing a GQ reporter.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:40 PM

75. Compare Rubio in 2009 to Rubio in 2012:

2009:

The “crux” of the disagreement, according Rubio, is “whether what a parent teaches their children at home should be mocked and derided and undone at the public school level. It goes to the fundamental core of who is ultimately, primarily responsible for the upbringing of children. Is it your public education system or is it your parents?”

Rubio added, “And for me, personally, I don’t want a school system that teaches kids that what they’re learning at home is wrong.”

Rubio, a Cuban-American, made a comparison to the strategy employed by the Communist Party in Cuba where schools encouraged children to turn in parents who criticized Fidel Castro.

“Of course, I’m not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro,” he quickly added, while noting that undermining the family and the church were key means the Communist Party used to gain control in Cuba.

“In order to impose their totalitarian regime, they destroyed the family; they destroyed the faith links that existed in that society,” he said.

Although the evolution issue is “obviously” on a “much smaller scale,” both matters are related to the “fundamental question of who is in charge of the upbringing of children. Is it parents or is it the government? I believe it’s parents. And we should do nothing in government that undermines that relationship.

“And there are parents that passionately believe in this and they should be given the opportunity to teach that to their children without someone undoing it,” Rubio said.


http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34830_Karl_Rove_Endorses_Creationist_Florida_Candidate_Rubio

Rubio in 2012:

At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says.


This is his talking point--that teaching evolution in public schools undermines parents' ability to raise their children.

And this kind of extremism is why it's completely daffy to compare him to Obama, who has expressed his belief in evolution because it's science.



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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:26 PM

6. I'd be OK with that...

...especially since:
Obama then went on to state that he strongly believes in the principles of science and evolution, saying that they coexist alongside and even strengthen his religious views. That's very much in line with his early stated goals and subsequent successes in pushing for increased funding for scientific initiatives and promoting the importance of teaching evolution in schools.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/barack-obama-earth-creation_n_2170810.html


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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:27 PM

7. Keep trying...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:51 PM

27. Breitbart is dead, but people are still imitating him.

Including some on the left.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:33 PM

71. You Better Believe It!!!! nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #71)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:02 PM

88. Another ironic avatar

Ever notice the amount of pure-D SHIT that pours forth from those with ironic avatars?

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:57 PM

83. this was a particularly weak attempt.. he phoned this one in...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:30 PM

9. This very meme was appearing on rightwing blogs this morning, and what a coinkydink

that it appears at DU from one of the anti-Obama diehards.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:37 PM

10. Well, at least that Senator is not a fundy.

At least, not a fundy like the jerks in my area of the country. The ones in my area of the country would tell the kid absolutely six 24 hour days, and tell the kid never to question the Bible if the kid asked how God got that much got done in 6 days.

So, at least that Senator doesn't come off as one of these hard core idiot fundies near where I live.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:19 PM

62. Perhaps he had this in mind.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:40 PM

11. Well good, some of you figured it out,

 

The Senator was indeed Barak Obama, speaking in April 2008 speaking at the Compassion Forum at Messiah College.

Now, let's compare his words with Rubio's interview in GQ:
"Q: How old do you think the Earth is?

A: I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I’m not a scientist. I don’t think I’m qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries."

Frankly, I don't see much different. Both men are walking a balance beam here, trying to express at least some of their belief system while also not trying to alienate their constituency and potential future voters.

But really, if you are so offended by Rubio's remarks, then you should be equally offended by Obama's remarks as well. Neither are science based, but rather are faith based. Both believe in religious nonsense that is unproven and frankly goes against scientific fact.

But I guess that once again, it is all good because one of these Senators has a D behind his name. Sad, the hypocrisy.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:41 PM

12. That you don't see much difference between Obama and Republicans is well established.

Please troll better.

Funny that this part was omitted:

OBAMA: But let me just make one last point on this. I do believe in evolution. I don't think that is incompatible with Christian faith. Just as I don't think science generally is incompatible with Christian faith.

And I think that this is something that, you know, we get bogged down in. There are those who suggest that if you have a scientific bent of mind, then somehow you should reject religion. And I fundamentally disagree with that.

In fact, the more I learn about the world, the more I know about science, the more I'm amazed about the mystery of this planet and this universe. And it strengthens my faith as opposed to weakens it.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/13/se.01.html

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:44 PM

15. So tell me then, specifically, how one of these faith based statements

 

Is better than the other? Neither is based in scientific fact, both are based in the belief of some magic sky being. So why is one better than the other?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:46 PM

20. Did Rubio say something like this?

OBAMA: But let me just make one last point on this. I do believe in evolution. I don't think that is incompatible with Christian faith. Just as I don't think science generally is incompatible with Christian faith.

And I think that this is something that, you know, we get bogged down in. There are those who suggest that if you have a scientific bent of mind, then somehow you should reject religion. And I fundamentally disagree with that.

In fact, the more I learn about the world, the more I know about science, the more I'm amazed about the mystery of this planet and this universe. And it strengthens my faith as opposed to weakens it.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/13/se.01.html

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Response to MadHound (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:48 PM

22. They don't sound all that different to me

Trying to have it both ways and not upset anyone, just politician speak really.

I didn't see the point of the big flap over what Rubio said either.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:50 PM

25. Neither did I,

 

And that's what I'm trying to point out with this post.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:20 PM

63. The root of this argument is whether Creationism and ID should be taught

as alternative "theories" (of course they aren't scientific theories) to evolution in schools.

It's all about the wingnut xians trying to push their agenda. And it's an issue of vital importance. Rubio says in his GQ interview that Creationism and ID should be taught as alternative "theories"; The President is firmly against it. The President is clear that he believes in the ToE. Rubio says nothing of the sort.

Other than that, it's no big deal.

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Response to cali (Reply #63)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:28 PM

67. So if Rubio waffles on how old the Earth is it's a plot?

He's a politician trying to play to multiple conflicting constituencies.

If Obama waffles on the age of the Earth it's perfectly understandable.

He's a politician trying to play multiple conflicting constituencies.

What the fuck are you worried about living up there in Lake Wobegon anyway?

Come on down here to red state hell and tell us all about how the damn fundies want to take over education because we don't know nothing about it .

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Response to MadHound (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:43 PM

14. So if you are tyring to set up DU'ers to hate Obama as much as Rubio

...why is it that YOU seem to hate Obama no matter the circustances?

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:49 PM

24. Actually I'm trying to show that both Obama and Rubio

 

Are politicians being politicians, as slackmaster so aptly put it below. If you're going to make a big fuss over one politician issuing a faith based statement, why not another politician who makes an equally faith based statement.

Or perhaps we should just drop faith based statements from our politics

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Response to MadHound (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:52 PM

29. You're running interference for Marco Rubio in order to express your disdain

for Obama.

In this case, it meant Breitbarting Obama's original quote to leave out this part:

OBAMA: But let me just make one last point on this. I do believe in evolution. I don't think that is incompatible with Christian faith. Just as I don't think science generally is incompatible with Christian faith.

And I think that this is something that, you know, we get bogged down in. There are those who suggest that if you have a scientific bent of mind, then somehow you should reject religion. And I fundamentally disagree with that.

In fact, the more I learn about the world, the more I know about science, the more I'm amazed about the mystery of this planet and this universe. And it strengthens my faith as opposed to weakens it.




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