Tue Nov 20, 2012, 12:12 PM

bvar22 (29,548 posts)

Did Anonymous really Save-the-Vote in Ohio? .... REALLY???

I don't care.
In the grand scheme of things, whether or not Anonymous stepped in at the last minute and prevented Rove and his minions from Hacking-the-Vote doesn't really matter.

Despite the internecine battles currently revolving around this issue on DU,
we will NEVER really know whether or not Anonymous Saved-the-Vote in Ohio,
and THAT is of the utmost importance.

We do NOT have the means to determine whether the vote was hacked or unhacked!
THAT should scare the pants off of everybody, not just on DU, but across the nation.
Let me repeat:
We do NOT have the means to determine whether the vote was hacked or unhacked!

The important fact is that elections in the United States have been removed from the hands of The People and given to private For Profit corporations. These corporations use secret, proprietary software to log, count, tally, and report how YOU voted. If you, as a private citizen, ask to examine the computers or software that counted the votes,
you will be told, "Sorry. That is a secret."

The most important of our Civil Responsibilities is no longer accountable to The People, but to a board of directors.
There is NO avenue by which The People can verify the vote.
We are told that we must take-the-Word of Private For Profit Corporations that our vote was counted fairly.

Elections in Venezuela, Iraq, and most 3rd World Countries are MORE Transparent and Verifiable than what passes for elections in the USA,
and THAT is what is important.

Whether Anonymous actually Saved-the-Vote in Ohio or not doesn't matter to me.
What matters is that because of his claim, people ARE talking about how insecure our elections really are.

Over 92% of the American People support Transparent, Verifiable elections.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445

WHY must we continue to have Secret Vote Counting and Unverifiable "Privatized" Elections?

Thank You, Anonymous, for helping to make public how ridiculously opaque and unverifiable our privatized elections really are!

Solidarity99!
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164 replies	Author	Time	Post
Did Anonymous really Save-the-Vote in Ohio? .... REALLY??? (Original post)	bvar22	Nov 2012	OP
We DO have the means to determine whether the vote is hacked	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#1
We do? Care to explain it?	xfundy	Nov 2012	#2
In Ohio we do.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#69
We do?	nadinbrzezinski	Nov 2012	#3
Do you have a proprietary interest in ESS?	bvar22	Nov 2012	#4
The difference between Vegas slots and Electronic Voting Machines (pic)	FreeBC	Nov 2012	#58
Great Comparison!	Pbs1914	Nov 2012	#63
Thank You.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#68
Outstanding graphic.	reusrename	Nov 2012	#107
How would we do this?	ElboRuum	Nov 2012	#29
You want facts?	EOTE	Nov 2012	#34
Yeah, I kinda do want some facts.	ElboRuum	Nov 2012	#42
Here are some first hand facts on electronic voting in Ohio	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#72
Interesting explanation.	ElboRuum	Nov 2012	#99
Unfortunately, that's normally seen as a state's rights issue.	randome	Nov 2012	#100
Unfortunately, he's also wrong.	reusrename	Nov 2012	#108
Actually...	ElboRuum	Nov 2012	#122
I haven't seen any legitimate criticism.	reusrename	Nov 2012	#125
Funny...	ElboRuum	Nov 2012	#126
This is a progression that the prophet Orwell spoke of.	reusrename	Nov 2012	#133
your reasoning?	heaven05	Nov 2012	#38
Odd many respond to this post without realizing that ANON claims to determine Rove is doing it	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#45
Never mind Anon. You have made a stunning statement, ie, that we CAN verify the vote.	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#59
Never mind me, if Whoever/Anon made a stunning statement, ie, that they CAN ...	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#77
That is a Strawman.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#62
If the Fake Anon video producers have given this more thought	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#81
#1 You REALLY should Google: "Strawman Logical Fallacy"...	bvar22	Nov 2012	#94
When is feeding time over for these folks?	reusrename	Nov 2012	#110
So we could have verified the votes in 2000 and 2004 after all? I know this was	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#54
The same way your so-called Anon verified that Rove was going to hack, of course	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#89
I see you are trying to avoid answering my question. So I will ask it again.	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#93
Anon are irrelevant. You said we could have verified the votes in 2000	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#143
I wrote:	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#144
and yet	Pbs1914	Nov 2012	#55
Yeah, but now we've got him talking to himself in public!	reusrename	Nov 2012	#111
Yes they are called exit polls and they indicate vote tampering in 2004	Exultant Democracy	Nov 2012	#131
Yes.	liberalmuse	Nov 2012	#5
Anonymous is also keeping all the wild tigers off of my street in suburban Virginia.	FSogol	Nov 2012	#16
Pic Of The Moment: QUESTION: How Old Is The Earth?	ProSense	Nov 2012	#21
Some guy is taking them away in a lifeboat--he must be a member of the Anon Club!	MADem	Nov 2012	#151
Did you ever watch Independence Day? IT CAN HAPPEN!!	randome	Nov 2012	#17
Actually, I don't believe that Flying Saucers and Aliens represent a credible threat.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#67
Here you go!	randome	Nov 2012	#73
We had better care if either of these things happened	liberal N proud	Nov 2012	#6
No. You missed the point.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#7
.	RomneyLies	Nov 2012	#8
perfect response from you*	RepublicansRZombies	Nov 2012	#10
a response completely void of substance,	bvar22	Nov 2012	#18
The needle on my sarcasm detector twitched...	ElboRuum	Nov 2012	#31
perfect response for illustrating who they are	RepublicansRZombies	Nov 2012	#32
Oops.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#98
So you're okay with easily hackable voting machines? Or are you saying you totally trust	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#92
and now is the perfect time to unite with Republicans on this	RepublicansRZombies	Nov 2012	#9
Paper ballots are easily 'lost'.	randome	Nov 2012	#11
Paper Ballots are NOT "easily lost"...	bvar22	Nov 2012	#13
Paper ballots are NOT easily lost and should be subjected to the chain of custody requirements	byeya	Nov 2012	#19
They've been 'lost', 'misplaced' and, in some cases, deliberately modified.	randome	Nov 2012	#39
Fine. Get Congress to mandate this across the country and I'm good with it.	randome	Nov 2012	#40
Thank You!	bvar22	Nov 2012	#71
Vomit	Spryguy	Nov 2012	#123
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!	WillyT	Nov 2012	#12
Silliness	ProSense	Nov 2012	#14
Silliness?	bvar22	Nov 2012	#23
Oh please,	ProSense	Nov 2012	#25
Ducking he issue agin.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#76
How can you ever know if it was Anonymous or not?	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#48
"It wasn't Anonymous ... It was an unidentified person"	starroute	Nov 2012	#56
The point of the OP is..	bvar22	Nov 2012	#86
K&R	forestpath	Nov 2012	#52
No	zappaman	Nov 2012	#15
And let's keep starting new threads until there is one without a	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#50
No, let's just kick this one because some of us progressives actually like	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#103
K&R	99Forever	Nov 2012	#20
This thread was started to point out that our voting results are not verifiable and transparent	byeya	Nov 2012	#22
Thank You.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#24
Yes I am afraid that you are right about the highjacking. I think we all remember Waukasha(sp?)	byeya	Nov 2012	#26
and the bags came back overstuffed, ripped, and with the wrong numbers	RepublicansRZombies	Nov 2012	#41
Thanks for the reminder of how truly blatant and horrible the performance of "our" officials	byeya	Nov 2012	#47
Imagine if Kathy Nickolaus was a Dem doing that to the Republican party...	RepublicansRZombies	Nov 2012	#65
Exactly. Ban BBV and the point is mute.	Vincardog	Nov 2012	#27
And the U.S. goes around the world telling others how to run elections...	polichick	Nov 2012	#28
And we sell them votibng machines that they don't know how to program without our right-wing corps	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#51
Anonymous hacked Kroger	snooper2	Nov 2012	#30
Been hoping someone would point this out. Thank you. K&R	Egalitarian Thug	Nov 2012	#33
Excellent points, but why do some DU posters want to shut off all discussion on this topic? nt.	OldDem2012	Nov 2012	#35
Too many here are self defined as Democrats, when they are actually DINO's.	RC	Nov 2012	#60
K&R	stonecutter357	Nov 2012	#87
It's baffling isn't it? nt	laundry_queen	Nov 2012	#146
+10000	heaven05	Nov 2012	#36
I cannot detect any lack of truth in what you posted.	ElboRuum	Nov 2012	#37
Here is what gets lost in the shuffle	DonCoquixote	Nov 2012	#43
+1	laundry_queen	Nov 2012	#147
It's amazing that stating that our elections are unverifiable is open to debate.	bleever	Nov 2012	#44
I agree.	Norrin Radd	Nov 2012	#75
As a member of Anonymous, I am keeping America safe from velociraptors!	backscatter712	Nov 2012	#46
We thank you for your service!	randome	Nov 2012	#49
The Machines in Ohio can be hacked without a trace	UCmeNdc	Nov 2012	#53
Good Video , " and that is realty"	bahrbearian	Nov 2012	#64
That machine is a Diebold Accutron TS from 2004.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#157
Anonymous would sell their mothers to the devil	NightOwwl	Nov 2012	#57
So, you are saying that voting machines, own and programed by admitted Republicans, on the record	RC	Nov 2012	#70
I didn't say any of that.	NightOwwl	Nov 2012	#85
Go back and read the OP.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#91
Reposting here:Thom compares 2004 & 2012 elections:	Rockyj	Nov 2012	#127
Well, I will never declare anyone who is telling the truth, no matter how inconvenient, dead to me.	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#90
yeah, we don't know--which SHOULD scare everyone into LOUDLY demanding action	librechik	Nov 2012	#61
We should demand that	ProSense	Nov 2012	#74
"Who save us in 2008? Was the 2010 election stolen?"	bvar22	Nov 2012	#105
Ohio can indeed now certify the vote through an audit.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#66
Here ya go JR	RobertEarl	Nov 2012	#78
Ohio's Diebold machines are absolutely not on a computer network.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#96
You really have no clue?	RobertEarl	Nov 2012	#97
Yes, I agree that in '04 there was a problem.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#102
Thanks, JR	RobertEarl	Nov 2012	#135
As far as I can tell, the Diebold machines have no network access.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#141
Did you see this, JR?	RobertEarl	Nov 2012	#150
In 2004 there was no paper trail. We had to trust the machine's tally	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#153
But are they ever verified? Does anyone ever count the votes on the rolls and	truckin	Nov 2012	#79
Because the machine keeps track of how many votes were cast for each candidate	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#106
But no one counts the individual votes on the roll of paper to compare them	truckin	Nov 2012	#124
I guess that's true that no one hand counts each vote on election day	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#128
No one hand counts the paper after the election either. The paper is never counted.	truckin	Nov 2012	#134
That's not true.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#136
You count a randomly selected sample	truckin	Nov 2012	#142
?	bvar22	Nov 2012	#82
Your unfounded fear of technology is clouding your view.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#148
Your false accusation is as disingenuous and diversionary as every other post you have made here.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#149
The ballots are accessible to counting.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#158
More smoke and bullshit from you.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#159
Haven't you ever seen the movie "Oceans Eleven"?	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#160
It does NOT take a Conspiracy Theorist...	bvar22	Nov 2012	#162
It's not just one company that provides our machines.	JohnnyRingo	Nov 2012	#163
"With simple close circuit video feeds and mirrors in the boxes ...	bvar22	Nov 2012	#164
Almost all of Ohio voted on punch cards in 2004.	Coyotl	Nov 2012	#145
Great post! Couldn't agree more.	truckin	Nov 2012	#80
Some of you missed the point of the OP	LiberalLovinLug	Nov 2012	#83
After over 11 years at DU, I have reached the conclusion that...	bvar22	Nov 2012	#101
Hey, I used one upthread!	reusrename	Nov 2012	#116
Kick and Rec	Kingofalldems	Nov 2012	#84
Outstanding post, bvar22, in every way.	Octafish	Nov 2012	#88
K&R	woo me with science	Nov 2012	#95
I would suggest taking a moment away from the specifics and consider	Bluenorthwest	Nov 2012	#104
"the general notion of unnamed people making unproven and unsupported allegations of great crimes"	bvar22	Nov 2012	#109
The good that the Anon letter did was to stimulate discussion about why the USA has a more	byeya	Nov 2012	#112
You know, if it would help get verifiable elections........	socialist_n_TN	Nov 2012	#115
Excellent post. It doesnt matter if Anon helped or not. Our election process is broken and needs	rhett o rick	Nov 2012	#113
K&R	Z_I_Peevey	Nov 2012	#114
Yep, I've been thinking the same thing myself.........	socialist_n_TN	Nov 2012	#117
Great OP topic, need more like this.	chknltl	Nov 2012	#118
Since no Ohio voting machines are connected to the internet	FogerRox	Nov 2012	#119
+a million	graham4anything	Nov 2012	#152
This point cannot be emphasized enough	eridani	Nov 2012	#120
I like your take on this issue...	GitRDun	Nov 2012	#121
No E-Voting In Germany	OnyxCollie	Nov 2012	#129
Big Post. E-voting, HAVA and Germany	RobertEarl	Nov 2012	#137
You are most welcome. nt	OnyxCollie	Nov 2012	#138
I believe that Ireland did the same thing.	bvar22	Nov 2012	#140
I doubt Anonymous had anything to do with the vote	Bradical79	Nov 2012	#130
I have to confess...	krispos42	Nov 2012	#132
Welcome, brother!	bvar22	Nov 2012	#139
it does matter, it matters very much	arely staircase	Nov 2012	#154
Don't you just love Conspiracy Theories	Dems50State	Nov 2012	#155
Gosh, bvar, could this mean that all this angst was caused by a simple psyops	Zorra	Nov 2012	#156
I agree that We on Du have no way of knowing	Marrah_G	Nov 2012	#161

Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 12:14 PM

Coyotl (5,158 posts)

1. We DO have the means to determine whether the vote is hacked

Last edited Tue Nov 20, 2012, 12:16 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

We don't have the means to verify every unfounded claim any yahoo wants to post on the WWW

Jesus Fucking Christ = Restoring Reason to Election Integrity Madness
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021851707

Did Anonymous really Save-the-Vote in Ohio? .... REALLY???

1. We DO have the means to determine whether the vote is hacked

2. We do? Care to explain it?

69. In Ohio we do.

3. We do?

4. Do you have a proprietary interest in ESS?

58. The difference between Vegas slots and Electronic Voting Machines (pic)

63. Great Comparison!

68. Thank You.

107. Outstanding graphic.

29. How would we do this?

34. You want facts?

42. Yeah, I kinda do want some facts.

72. Here are some first hand facts on electronic voting in Ohio

99. Interesting explanation.

100. Unfortunately, that's normally seen as a state's rights issue.

108. Unfortunately, he's also wrong.

122. Actually...

125. I haven't seen any legitimate criticism.

126. Funny...

133. This is a progression that the prophet Orwell spoke of.

38. your reasoning?

45. Odd many respond to this post without realizing that ANON claims to determine Rove is doing it

59. Never mind Anon. You have made a stunning statement, ie, that we CAN verify the vote.

77. Never mind me, if Whoever/Anon made a stunning statement, ie, that they CAN ...

62. That is a Strawman.

81. If the Fake Anon video producers have given this more thought

94. #1 You REALLY should Google: "Strawman Logical Fallacy"...

110. When is feeding time over for these folks?

54. So we could have verified the votes in 2000 and 2004 after all? I know this was

89. The same way your so-called Anon verified that Rove was going to hack, of course

93. I see you are trying to avoid answering my question. So I will ask it again.

143. Anon are irrelevant. You said we could have verified the votes in 2000

144. I wrote:

55. and yet

111. Yeah, but now we've got him talking to himself in public!

131. Yes they are called exit polls and they indicate vote tampering in 2004

5. Yes.

16. Anonymous is also keeping all the wild tigers off of my street in suburban Virginia.

21. Pic Of The Moment: QUESTION: How Old Is The Earth?

151. Some guy is taking them away in a lifeboat--he must be a member of the Anon Club!

17. Did you ever watch Independence Day? IT CAN HAPPEN!!

67. Actually, I don't believe that Flying Saucers and Aliens represent a credible threat.

73. Here you go!

6. We had better care if either of these things happened

7. No. You missed the point.

8. .

10. perfect response from you*

18. a response completely void of substance,

31. The needle on my sarcasm detector twitched...

32. perfect response for illustrating who they are

98. Oops.

92. So you're okay with easily hackable voting machines? Or are you saying you totally trust

9. and now is the perfect time to unite with Republicans on this

11. Paper ballots are easily 'lost'.

13. Paper Ballots are NOT "easily lost"...

19. Paper ballots are NOT easily lost and should be subjected to the chain of custody requirements

39. They've been 'lost', 'misplaced' and, in some cases, deliberately modified.

40. Fine. Get Congress to mandate this across the country and I'm good with it.

71. Thank You!

123. *Vomit*

12. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

14. Silliness

23. Silliness?

25. Oh please,

76. Ducking he issue agin.

48. How can you ever know if it was Anonymous or not?

56. "It wasn't Anonymous ... It was an unidentified person"

86. The point of the OP is..

52. K&R

15. No

50. And let's keep starting new threads until there is one without a

103. No, let's just kick this one because some of us progressives actually like

20. K&R

22. This thread was started to point out that our voting results are not verifiable and transparent

24. Thank You.

26. Yes I am afraid that you are right about the highjacking. I think we all remember Waukasha(sp?)

41. and the bags came back overstuffed, ripped, and with the wrong numbers

47. Thanks for the reminder of how truly blatant and horrible the performance of "our" officials

65. Imagine if Kathy Nickolaus was a Dem doing that to the Republican party...

123. Vomit