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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:31 AM

Had a farmers daughter complaining about the "new", Obama laws to keep dust and erosion down

She was in her early 20,s and working at my bank and this happened several months ago.

I told her to go home and Google "The Dust Bowl", to see how long these laws have been in effect and why they were enacted decades ago.

I couldn't believe someone could be that ignorant fresh out of High School and with a father who was a farmer and is well aware of The Dust Bowl.

Amazing isn't it?

Obviously these Obama haters like this farmer are teaching their children to be idiots. Guess they think we are all as stupid as they are.

Unbelievable.

Don

45 replies, 2823 views

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Reply Had a farmers daughter complaining about the "new", Obama laws to keep dust and erosion down (Original post)
NNN0LHI Nov 2012 OP
magical thyme Nov 2012 #1
brokechris Nov 2012 #2
PCIntern Nov 2012 #3
A HERETIC I AM Nov 2012 #11
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #43
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #13
lonestarnot Nov 2012 #4
no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #5
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #15
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #26
Caretha Nov 2012 #6
madrchsod Nov 2012 #7
treestar Nov 2012 #8
brokechris Nov 2012 #9
hobbit709 Nov 2012 #10
brokechris Nov 2012 #17
XemaSab Nov 2012 #24
brokechris Nov 2012 #25
XemaSab Nov 2012 #27
brokechris Nov 2012 #31
brokechris Nov 2012 #12
hobbit709 Nov 2012 #14
brokechris Nov 2012 #18
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #28
brokechris Nov 2012 #32
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #35
Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #34
treestar Nov 2012 #19
brokechris Nov 2012 #20
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #16
yesphan Nov 2012 #21
XemaSab Nov 2012 #22
Retrograde Nov 2012 #40
Arkana Nov 2012 #23
deerheadgal Nov 2012 #29
MuseRider Nov 2012 #38
Lasher Nov 2012 #30
Arkansas Granny Nov 2012 #36
Mariana Nov 2012 #39
Lasher Nov 2012 #41
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #44
lapfog_1 Nov 2012 #33
monmouth3 Nov 2012 #37
aandegoons Nov 2012 #42
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #45

Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:33 AM

1. Suggest she watch the PBS special on the dust bowl

the timing couldn't be better.

And the thought occurred to me that the next time people more fixated on extracting resources than caring for the land destroy that area, instead of helping them stay on their farms, the government should buy *all* of them out, repair the soil *again* and then hold onto the land and manage it organically.

Unfortunately when it happens again, it will be the big corporations instead of individual farmers. Nationalize them?

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:35 AM

2. are you sure that there are no new regs though?

we have a lot of new regs here in CA re keeping dust down. I was under the impression that Obama had toughened air quality standards. (a good thing)

for pertinent Fed laws see--EPA fugitive dust emissions
CARB (The California Air Resources Board) also added a bunch of regs on the state level under Arnold.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:37 AM

3. Sounds like the opening to a joke:

So I was on a business trip and my car broke down outside this farm. I knocked on the door and the farmer opened it and invited me in and he and his wife invited me to dinner. The only thing he told me I couldn't do was...

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:49 AM

11. ...talk about how stupid their daughter was?

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:38 AM

43. LOL!

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:50 AM

13. I was halfway expecting a joke too n/t

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:39 AM

4. Guess someone should buy ms. stupid a box of rocks and a copy of Grapes of Wrath, but then what

would she do with a book? Burn the pages for heat no doubt.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:41 AM

5. No, not surprised.

I was an aide in a public elementary school last year. I heard the teacher tell the class that Hoovervilles were named by the people living in them to honor Herbert Hoover for all his help to them.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:53 AM

15. That's right, and tumbrel rides were all the rage among the nobles of France



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:28 AM

26. LMAO....

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:56 AM

6. I suggest she moves

to the Texas panhandle where most days the wind is 15 to 35 mph, and we have wind storms producing 50 to 70 mph gusts. I live on the outskirts of town next to I-40. I've seen Lubbock & Midland blow by on a few days, and visibility was just 20 yards or so.

People in the panhandle never forget about the dust bowl days. My mom lived through them and told stories that would curl your hair.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:36 AM

7. i doubt the majority of people in their 20`s know about the dust bowl

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:38 AM

8. So with a Republican House, Obama passed these laws all by himself

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Response to treestar (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:43 AM

9. if you are referring to the new regulations, then the EPA originated them. n/t

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Response to brokechris (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:46 AM

10. Then there's a reason for them. They don't make them up on a whim.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:54 AM

17. never said they were on a whim.

read my first post in the thread--I said improving air quality is a good thing.

This is one of my areas of expertise-making sure companies are NEPA and CEQA compliant--so I know this pretty well.

There have been regs--they have nothing to do with the dust bowl. They are good--but a farmer (dealing with manure etc) might consider them punitive. Farmers are kept well-informed about these regs and any changes--so someone from that community likely knew exactly what she needed to do and how it had changed. The lady probably had no clue why OP started going on about the Dust Bowl.

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Response to brokechris (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:22 AM

24. I'm in CA

Some of the regs have nothing to do with the Dust Bowl, and some do.

But I do see people plowing on awfully windy days.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:25 AM

25. the ones that have come about while Obama

has been in office have mostly dealt with Greenhouse Gas Emissions. I am actually serving on a committee (for Governor Brown working on these right now--sadly it is for free--but I am making contacts).

Could you name a few recent (within Obama's tenure) California regs that have to do with the Dust Bowl? I can't think of any (completely stumped) so I am interested.

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Response to brokechris (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:29 AM

27. Come join us in the Environment/Energy forum

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:34 AM

31. I didn't even know one existed!! neat!

I will find it!

I have been a consultant in this area for about 8 years--but the engineering firm I was working for went under. Have been trying to get on with California Air Resources Board--but the hiring freezes have kept me out. So life is depressing right now...

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Response to brokechris (Reply #9)


Response to brokechris (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:52 AM

14. contour plowing and other soil conservation measures.

Did you watch Dust Bowl?

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:56 AM

18. I've seen it--but the new air quality regs are not

due to the dust bowl. They are even more stringent here in CA.

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Response to brokechris (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:32 AM

28. I was in California

back in the mid 90s when the sky was brown for a week. I had never seen brown sky in my life, it gave me a whole new appreciation for the bright blue skies of Florida. Having said that, I would prefer living in CA.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:39 AM

32. when I was in Fl, they had a huge storm

but the sun shined the whole time! It was amazing to see.

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Response to brokechris (Reply #32)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:52 AM

35. Yep.

Rainbows are also common here. When we moved to FL in July of 1987 we saw rainbows and double rainbows almost every day...the kids were always so excited by them. Eventually you become jaded.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:43 AM

34. Now, THAT's a flashback!

I went to a 1-room country grade school and, even though most of us weren't farm kids, the state DPI made sure that sound ag practices, including contour plowing, were included in the curriculum in grade school.

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Response to brokechris (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:56 AM

19. Regulations are only about how the law will be carried out

They cannot change anything that Congress passed. If they do, they can be challenged.

Regulation and executive orders are limited by law to the carrying out of duly passed laws. They are not "new" laws or ways for the Executive Branch to just invent laws of its own.

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Response to treestar (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:16 AM

20. exactly--but the new regs do change things for people

in very real and practical ways as they do business and conduct their lives.

Regs aren't new law, but people have to follow it just as if it law.

here is how Regs come about:
http://www.epa.gov/lawsregs/basics.html


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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:53 AM

16. Sadly, not unbelievable at all. n/t

 

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:16 AM

21. An excellent book on this topic

is "The Worst Hard Time" by Timothy Egan. Reading it now and it rivals Burns' film.

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Response to yesphan (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:19 AM

22. That book was quite the read

Highly recommended.

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Response to yesphan (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 01:14 PM

40. Burns' film was heavily based on Egan's book

And Egan made several appearances in it.

That said, "The Worst Hard Time" is one of the best books I've read in the last 10 years, and everyone who hasn't read it yet should obtain a copy from their favorite book purveyor or library forthwith. It's chilling: humans destroy a stable ecosystem in less than a generation.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:22 AM

23. Why is this a bad law? Those dust storms on the Plains used to kill people.

Oh, right, I forgot--Democrats = evil, Obama = Democrat, ergo Obama = evil Negro Kenyan Socialist Muslim Commie.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:33 AM

29. Dust Bowl could happen again

My family has a ranch not far from the area Ken Burns highlighted. When I was growing up in the '50s, my dad and our neighbors all had beautifully terraced fields that held in the available water. They practiced dry land farming with no irrigation. They loved the land and considered themselves stewards, and this was our home, not a factory.
As time went by, they grew old and their children went into other careers, the land was sold to corporations (many filled with "suitcase farmers"--dentists from Kansas City or lawyers from Tulsa who had no connection with the land.) To expedite the work, many of the corporate farmers used gigantic equipment and the terraces were knocked down so they could quickly plow and put in a crop that relied on chemicals rather than natural means to produce high yields.
There has been a terrible drought these past few years, and a couple of months ago, my brother sent me a picture of a dust storm that was similar to the ones we saw in the 1950s. It is not out of the realm of possibility that greed and a disdain for history and the land itself will again reap a harvest of dust and despair.

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Response to deerheadgal (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:26 AM

38. I saw dust blowing all the way up in NE Kansas this fall.

We are a long way from where the worst of the dust bowl occurred but it still was bad up here, my father lived through it and told me stories about it.

I have been worried about all those well kept family farms that have been sold to the corporations.

When I bought my farm I was so pleased to see that it was nicely terraced, I have added a few more to help control the runoff through the pastures when we get good rain (if that ever happens again, fingers crossed). It is a dry grass farm (no irrigation) and I do not have to plow and plant thankfully. I see a lot of family farms that have been working no till for quite some time but they are dwindling every year as they get bought out and the signs go up for Monsanto corn crops. Out come the big machines and here we go again.......

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:33 AM

30. Guess what, she probably didn't Google it.

Willful ignorance, reinforced by similar relatives and friends, and by rightwing entertainment 'news'.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:00 AM

36. That's the thing that I don't understand. I hear this rw crap at work and it just takes a few

keystrokes to disprove it. How hard is that? These people don't even bother to do any fact checking when they hear something outrageous, they just accept it on blind faith. IMHO, that's why Fox News is so popular among them. They don't have to put forth any effort at all, they just sit back and watch and they will be told what they should think and believe. Willful ignorance is spot on. They don't know the truth and they don't care.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:46 AM

39. Willful is indeed the word for it.

I'm never going to understand this about the RWers. They WANT to believe all this crap. I don't know why, but they do. Normal people are relieved when they find out something they were upset about isn't true. But when you demonstrate to these people that their complaint is bullshit, they get even more angry - and not at Fox News who lied to them to begin with. No, they get pissed of at YOU.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #39)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 01:45 PM

41. They are zealots.

It took me years to realize this because I was hoping that some of them could be reached if confronted with compelling arguments. I have had some of them admit that they will say anything, true or not, if they think they might thereby promote their ideology. They think such deception is virtuous, and are proud of themselves for being the pathetic liars that they are.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:45 AM

44. It's also very easy to find RW sources that support the BS. Which links do you think RWers will

click on?

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:43 AM

33. I watched for years now

farmers in my home state of Kansas ripping out the hedge rows that were put into place after the dust bowl era... the hedge rows interfere with every increasing large mechanization of corporate farms.

Hedge rows are an important wind break for surface winds and help prevent the formation of dust storms.

OTOH, cultivators and earth tilling machines are better these days about not ripping up the soil as much.

but I do worry that we are forgetting the lessons of history.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:11 AM

37. Look at how many posts you have.....Congrats...n/t

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:07 AM

42. Where I live we still have a lot of run-down trailers with trash all over their front yard

with those America against Obama signs still in front of them.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:54 AM

45. Afraid he's going to take away their trash?

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