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Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:42 PM

K&R if you support President Obama's position on Hamas and Israel.

"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said. "We are fully supportive of Israel's right to defend itself from missiles landing on peoples' homes."

http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?catid=57551659&feed_id=30&videofeed=null

I'm with you, Mr. President.

47 replies, 2647 views

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Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply K&R if you support President Obama's position on Hamas and Israel. (Original post)
Nye Bevan Nov 2012 OP
glacierbay Nov 2012 #1
Skidmore Nov 2012 #2
Lionessa Nov 2012 #5
Viva_La_Revolution Nov 2012 #11
ceile Nov 2012 #21
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #37
unreadierLizard Nov 2012 #3
MineralMan Nov 2012 #4
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #18
Quezacoatl Nov 2012 #6
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #7
teddy51 Nov 2012 #8
truebrit71 Nov 2012 #9
ellisonz Nov 2012 #19
RockaFowler Nov 2012 #31
ellisonz Nov 2012 #34
truebrit71 Nov 2012 #38
ellisonz Nov 2012 #40
truebrit71 Nov 2012 #44
leftynyc Nov 2012 #10
quinnox Nov 2012 #12
Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #13
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2012 #14
MadHound Nov 2012 #15
Mr Dixon Nov 2012 #16
closeupready Nov 2012 #25
ellisonz Nov 2012 #17
Whisp Nov 2012 #20
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #22
RockaFowler Nov 2012 #32
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #33
Chan790 Nov 2012 #45
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2012 #23
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #24
Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #27
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #28
cali Nov 2012 #26
frylock Nov 2012 #29
Upton Nov 2012 #30
darkangel218 Nov 2012 #36
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #35
Warren DeMontague Nov 2012 #39
Waiting For Everyman Nov 2012 #41
BluePatriot21 Nov 2012 #42
kickysnana Nov 2012 #43
Ruby the Liberal Nov 2012 #46
underoath Nov 2012 #47

Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:44 PM

1. K&R

 

Count me in.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:45 PM

2. While I can understand the security needs for a nation, I cannot

support the notion that a nation is somehow entitled to keep an entire population locked up in what is in fact an open air prison in perpetuity.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:02 PM

5. +1

 

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:41 PM

11. +100000! nt

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:59 PM

21. +1 n/t

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 04:23 PM

37. Agreed. nt

PB

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:45 PM

3. K&R

Well said.

Tired of seeing people cheering for Hamas firing rockets into Israel as well as using Gaza strip civilians as human shields.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:51 PM

4. My personal opinion is that the US should pretty much keep

out of Middle East issues, except as an advocate for peaceful solutions. Our history in that region when we have attempted to do more is not remarkable for its successes.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:53 PM

18. As Long As The U.S. Is An Empire It Will Be In The M.E./nt

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:07 PM

6. Unless of course they are US drones.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:09 PM

7. Umm.. Pakistan?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:10 PM

8. I don't support his position at all, maybe you should watch these two

 

videos of what many in the rest of the world think about what is going on.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113422298

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:13 PM

9. Nope.

The U.S. should be using the threat of withholding aid (military and otherwise) to Israel to get them to a) stop and b) sit down at the negotiating table..

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:54 PM

19. Israel will sit down at the negotiating table...

...as they've shown through peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and a sincere attempt to conclude agreements with the Palestinian Authority. The truth is that Hamas has no intention of ever having peaceful co-existence with Israel.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:20 PM

31. I agree with this wholeheartedly

I know Bibi is a jerk, but he did not start this - Hamas did.

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:28 PM

34. Bibi at this point has nothing to gain.

He was going to cakewalk in the January elections no matter what as there is no credible opposition in Israeli politics at the moment. He's firmly in the center-right and there is no center-left, only a divided, and weak left and a strengthening far-right. So long as Ehud Barak remains allied with Netanyahu...Netanyahu will be in power if he wants it. Scroll down a little bit and look at current polling for Prime Minister - Netanyahu does not have a credible challenger. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Israeli_legislative_election#Opinion_polling

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:04 PM

38. Kind of hard to see the sincerity through the smoke and carnage they are creating...

Israel is only acting like the bully because the US always has its back...if we tell them they're on their own I think their behavior will change radically and instantly..

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:17 PM

40. You do realize that the US has not always had Israel's back?

The 1948 and 1967 wars were all fought by Israel without substantial US backing. You'd do well to understand the Cold War history of the Middle East in this regard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_military_relations#Overview

Israel frankly could still fight two-wars at the same time without US backing. US Military Aid to Israel is about $3 billion annually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_military_relations#Military_aid - the IDF annual budget is about $15 billion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget - Israel makes substantial investment in its Defense Sector much like the United States. Israel is not a poor country, so long as they are able to buy weapons on the international marketplace they will be able to afford weapons. Israeli military policy is designed to be self-sufficient irregardless of US assistance! So it's really a flawed thesis to assert that if the US withdrew it's support that "their behavior will change radically and instantly." Israel will not under any circumstances bow to a terror group/state like Hamas.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:40 PM

44. We are talking about THIS century...

...and what about the Nukes they have? Did those just evolve out of thin air, or did some friendly country "make them available"...

Bottom line Israel is a loud-mouthed bully that would change its tune in an instant if it's Sugar Daddy said they were going to sit this one out...

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:22 PM

10. K&R

I'm with the President on this one.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:45 PM

12. He has to say that

 

Its a standard line from presidents. Meanwhile, I bet he is in reality not pleased with the right wing Nutenyahu and this overkill business. 100 dead so far, many innocent civilians.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:19 PM

13. He doesn't "have to" say anything he doesn't want to.

It's not like he has to worry about his re-election. He is free to say and do what he genuinely feels is the right thing.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:29 PM

14. As an example of the dog being wagged by its tail it's very good. And, predictable.

Taking sides in a civil war is never good policy. See Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan for recent examples.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:32 PM

15. So I guess Obama also support the Israeli position

 

About blowing Gaza back to the Middle Ages as a well.

Sorry, I'm not with the President on this one. Frankly I think he needs to use his position as POTUS to rein in Israel, but that's not going to happen.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:51 PM

16. IMO



I have a feeling that if Israel was located near Canada or Iceland this would not be an issue. The Holy land aside, I think Israel is a proxy for the elites to maintain a close eye on the rich resources of the Middle East. There has to be a monetary reason, War is always about money and resources. After a quick review of the attached image, things seem very clear, what say you?

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Response to Mr Dixon (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:12 PM

25. I didn't think this geo-political aspect was such a big secret.

We support Israel for lots of reasons, securing our oil supply being a big one.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:52 PM

17. K & R

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:56 PM

20. on this one, I'm not. holey moley first time for me.

 

BUT
I am pretty sure he is also thinking:
"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said. "We are fully supportive of the Palestinians right to defend itself from missiles landing on peoples' homes."

but for obvious, huge, mammoth reasons he can't say that out loud.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:02 PM

22. Israel Is Densely Populated

Their missile defense is only intercepting 30% of the incoming missiles. What I don't understand is how the 70% of the rockets fired by Hamas manage not to hit anything with a few exceptions.


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:23 PM

32. 905 Rockets have been fired at Israel

Since this "conflict" began.

I have relatives in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem fearing for their lives right now. Even with the defense shield.

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #32)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:28 PM

33. I Have Lived In Densely Populated Areas-NYC- L A, Miami

It's a miracle a rocket doesn't hit something and cause real damage or damage beyond what we have seen.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:57 PM

45. The answer is basically blind-fire and lack of skill.

The Israeli military technology advantage situationally is that they can ID and return fire on any launch site very quickly and able to ID many launchers before they can successfully launch...so for Hamas it's very much a matter of pop-up, target as fast as possible (accuracy be damned), fire and immediately run like hell because return fire may be coming.

Factor in that Hamas forces are guerrillas, many of them fervent new converts, rather than a trained military and you get the other half of the equation.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:08 PM

23. No, thank you. I don't support President Obama's position on Hamas and Israel.

It is merely the continuation of the long-standing imbalanced policy of blind support for Israel.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:09 PM

24. Too bad we don't have an Unrec button. - n/t

 

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:15 PM

27. I would LOVE for unrec to be brought back.

I always took my unrecs like a man. I never cried and whined over them.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:17 PM

28. Careful or I'll alert on you for sexist language ("like a man" :) - n/t

 

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:14 PM

26. No. I'm tired of that simplistic line.

There are other ways that Israel could deal with this instead of employing wholesale slaughter of civilians.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:18 PM

29. I support President Carter's position on Israel and apartheid.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:19 PM

30. No way..

Obama should be cutting off Israel's $3 billion a year welfare check instead..

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Response to Upton (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:31 PM

36. Why is Israel getting 3 billion $ / year for?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 03:30 PM

35. I support President CARTER's position on Hamas and Israel.



PB

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:06 PM

39. K&R

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:19 PM

41. K&R

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #41)


Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 04:49 AM

43. Defending yourself is not attacking people who had nothing to do with the attack.

They and we should know better than to allow this abomination.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:27 PM

46. Cosign.

100%

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Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:27 PM

47. let them bomb eachother and fight it out.

 

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