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Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:22 AM

The beginning of the end of the Third Reich.

70 years ago today, on November 19, 1942, the Red Army launched Operation Uranus. The German Sixth Army was at its farthest point east at Stalingrad on the banks of the Volga River. Its flanks were protected by inferior units from Romania, Hungary, and Italy. The Russian armies penetrated these flanks from the north and from the south, trapping Germany's largest army. The destruction of the Sixth Army is considered by most historians to have been the turning point of World War II.

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Reply The beginning of the end of the Third Reich. (Original post)
teamster633 Nov 2012 OP
Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #1
A HERETIC I AM Nov 2012 #3
Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #2
malaise Nov 2012 #4
teamster633 Nov 2012 #5
Brickbat Nov 2012 #6
Javaman Nov 2012 #7

Response to teamster633 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:39 AM

1. Certainly, the destruction of the sixth army was the mother of all turning points.

Then again, from today's perspective one might ask - what if the sixth army would have escaped encirclement.... Hard to see how that would have changed anything in the long run as both Heeresgruppe Mitte and Süd had lost most of their operational Mojo by the start of Operation Typhoon in 41 by the latest.

I wrote one or two papers on the history of the eastern front (myth and reality in the "battle" of Pochorovka) and it never fails to amaze me how hopeless the whole campaign was despite all those victories in 41. Seems even Napoleon had a better shot at it from hindsight.

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:43 AM

3. As Eddie Izzard said ....

"Hitler never played 'Risk' as a kid."

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Response to teamster633 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:43 AM

2. Something on the order of 400,000 casualties on the Russian side.

For that battle. Generally Americans think we won the war at d-day. We have no clue.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:54 AM

4. It is one of the most revisionist of histories

I don't think they are clueless - I think Americans bought the KoolAid US propaganda.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:34 AM

5. For the Big Three:

the United States, the United Kingdom, and France; the total war dead is estimated to have been 1,437,000. The estimated Soviet war dead is 23,400,000, nearly 14% of their 1939 population. What Hitler did to those people is incomprehensible. Little wonder that toward the end, as the Red Army pressed west, those German soldiers who hoped to survive were desperate to surrender to US Army.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:35 AM

6. Yep, the war was over by D-Day.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:57 AM

7. This factoid always makes my blanche...

The "Russian Front" in WWII was the equivalent in length in distance as is Seattle to San Diego.

Holy crap!

We have zero idea. Normandy succeeded because of the Eastern front.

I'm a big fan of alt history and I have a book waiting in the wings in regards to "what if hitler never invaded Russia". I can't wait to read it.

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