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Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:00 AM

Ten Things You Need to Know About Gaza

1) "PRISON CAMP"

David Cameron once referred to Gaza as a "prison camp" and "some sort of open-air prison". 1.7million Palestinians are crammed into just 140 square miles; Gaza is one of the most crowded places on earth. Israel, despite withdrawing its troops and settlers from the Strip in 2005, continues to control its airspace, territorial waters and border crossings (with the exception, of course, of Gaza's land border with Egypt).

3) "COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT"

Why do they hate us, ask ordinary Israelis? Well, Gaza has been under siege since January 2006, after its residents dared to elect a Hamas goverment in free and fair elections. The subsequent economic blockade imposed upon the Strip by the Israeli government at one stage prevented the residents of Gaza from importing, among other things, coriander, ginger, nutmeg and, even, newspapers. Most international lawyers, as well as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), consider the blockade to be illegal under international humanitarian law; in 2009, a UN panel, led by distinguished South African judge and self-confessed Zionist Richard Goldstone, accused Israel of imposing "a blockade which amounted to collective punishment".

4) "ON A DIET"

In 2006, Dov Weissglass, the then chief of staff to Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon summed up his government's approach to Gaza and its residents when he confessed: "The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger." A rhetorical flourish? Not quite: in 2008, Israeli defence officials in charge of restricting food and supplies from entering Gaza went so far "as to calculate how many calories would be needed to avert a humanitarian disaster in the impoverished Palestinian territory, according to a... declassified military document."

8) KILLING YOUR OWN 'SUBCONTRACTORS'

The escalation of the violence this week was prompted by Israeli's assassination-by-drone of Hamas military commander Ahmed al-Jabari; the IDF said Jabari was a terrorist with "blood on his hands". Yet, as Aluf Benn, editor-in-chief of the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, pointed out: "Ahmed Jabari was a subcontractor, in charge of maintaining Israel's security in Gaza... Israel demanded of Hamas that it observe the truce in the south and enforce it on the multiplicity of armed organizations in the Gaza Strip. The man responsible for carrying out this policy was Ahmed Jabari... Jabari was also Israel's partner in the negotiations for the release of Gilad Shalit; it was he who ensured the captive soldier's welfare and safety, and it was he who saw to Shalit's return home last fall." According to Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, Jabari was the "key actor on the Hamas side" responsible for keeping calm inside the Strip and the official who would "force" ceasefires "on all of the other factions and on Hamas". Good job, IDF!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-10-things-you-need-to-know_b_2139356.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Ten Things You Need to Know About Gaza (Original post)
Viking12 Nov 2012 OP
eridani Nov 2012 #1
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #2
eridani Nov 2012 #3
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #4
eridani Nov 2012 #11
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #12
eridani Nov 2012 #15
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #16
ananda Nov 2012 #19
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #20
eridani Nov 2012 #22
Comrade_McKenzie Nov 2012 #5
liberalhistorian Nov 2012 #6
Viking12 Nov 2012 #9
liberalhistorian Nov 2012 #7
Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #18
eridani Nov 2012 #23
B2G Nov 2012 #8
Matariki Nov 2012 #10
99Forever Nov 2012 #13
cali Nov 2012 #17
99Forever Nov 2012 #21
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #14
arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #24

Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:16 AM

1. The most important part of the adult social role--

--is being able to protect your kids. Adults who can't do that are always in a state of barely surpressed fury at their helplessness. I think that explains the tin can rockets.

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Response to eridani (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:49 AM

2. More bullshit about the Hamas using bottle rockets? Give it up, its a bad lie at best

that has been beat down repeatedly. Still the lies and those who post them continue.

Quick Summary:
The smallest of the Hamas rockets, the Qassam 3, carries a 10kg war head. By comparisons, the basic M67 hand grenade has 6.5 ounces of explosive fill. It is great for killing everyone in a pillbox or room. It can blow up cars. It has a lethal radius of 5 meters a casualty producing radius of 15 meters and fragments can disperse as far as 230 meters.

In addition to the Qassam, there are longer range rockets with larger warheads being launched, including some that hit in Jerusalem.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:00 AM

3. Qassam rockets are still high school science project rockets. n/t

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Response to eridani (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:19 AM

4. With 10 kg warheads? Your attempted whitewashing of the danger posed by Qassams is appalling.

Hamas is also firing Grads and larger rockets.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:06 AM

11. Still unbelievably chickenshit compared to what an actual air force can do to you

When a foreign country tells you you are not allowed to have an economy, a government, food, water, schools, etc., helpless rage and doing anything you can to damage them (in however limited and chickenshit a fashion) is the only rational response.

People are conquered, like the Gazans, because they are helpless to stop it. Anything they can do to stop the conquerers from enjoying their conquest is perfectly reasonable.

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Response to eridani (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:24 AM

12. So anything goes if you are Hamas?

Nice to see your true colors...

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:42 PM

15. That would be a corollary of the more general theorem that

--anything goes for the weakest party in any fight.

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Response to eridani (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:51 AM

16. Military conflicts should never be fair fights

All that does is kill people. Unbalanced forces, even if it is just a local one, resolve the immediate conflict with much lower loss of life.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:09 AM

19. Yeah, just keep the Palestinians in Gaza prisoncamp..

.. and let em starve.

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Response to ananda (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:41 AM

20. Much of this started with Hamas taking over Gaza at gunpoint

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:47 AM

22. Pardon? Israel started starving them when they ELECTED a Hamas government

That was more a vote against PLO corruption than a pro-Islamist voter anyway.

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Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:22 AM

5. Participants of Israel's Internet "megaphone" arriving in 3...2... nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:45 AM

6. Fortunately, I have most of them on ignore.

I usually don't like to put people on ignore because I consider it to be rather childish, but their complete and utter clueless cheerleading and refusal to even recognize the humanity of the Palestinian people, the occupation conditions, and to try to understand them at all, and their Israel-is-always-right-no-matter-what-and-you're-an-antisemitic-hater-if-you-express-anything-different bullshit is just too much.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:36 PM

9. That's why I posted this.

Some of the DUers were making me vomit with their black-&-white, Palestinians=bad/Israelis=good, kill 'em all rhetoric.

Understanding the context and complexity of this situation is essential.

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Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:50 AM

7. Thank you for posting this, I wish more Americans

would get it instead of swallowing whole the propaganda. Some students from my seminary went on a global justice trip to Israel/Palestine this past summer and were absolutely shocked at what they found in Gaza and the casually dismissive, hateful attitudes from too many Israelis regarding it. They were also shocked at the apartheid attitudes against Israeli Arabs. Some were Jewish (my seminary is Christian (UCC), but ecumenical and there are students of other religions or no religion also) and were disturbed at such attitudes, for obvious historical reasons.

I absolutely hate and deeply resent that billions of my/our tax dollars are going to support such a brutal occupation and actions.

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:08 AM

18. I read the post, and I read it as supporting the reason that Israel has taken the

position it has, in some instances.

Maybe it's all in the perception.

1. Gaza is crowded. When Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians a decade ago (notice that...Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians, against the wishes of Israelis citizens)....the Palestinians decided whether to more there or not. So why is it Israel's fault that too many people moved there? Why didn't the Palestinian leaders control that better? Are they controlling population growth through distribution of birth control, like we are now doing in America? I mean, if space is limited....

2. Hamas. It is understandable to me that any country would take it as a very bad sign when a neighboring country elects a terrorist organization to its government; a terrorist organization that has targeted that first country. I mean, what would we do if Mexico elected Al Qaeda to its government? Would the U.S. block the border? What other measures would the U.S. take?

The violence escalated after the killing of the Hamas militant leader. But Israel had a right to try to take out militants who are shooting rockets into its territory against its citizens. We have that right. All countries have that sovereign right. The militants know that shooting those rockets will result in retaliation or Israel trying to take out whoever is shooting those rockets, so I wonder why they shoot the rockets, knowing what the result will be. Seriously. What is the purpose of shooting the rockets? Is it to incite a reaction from Israel? I can't think of another reason. If there is one, please let me know.

It's also my understanding that the Israel blockade of Gaza isn't right. But maybe I don't understand why that matters so much. Is it that the Palestinians don't have a self-sufficient economy? Do they not produce their own money, work within their borders and have an economy? If not, do they rely on working IN Israel? How can that work, since they don't get along with Israel, and vice versa?

It's a mess over there. I wish they could come up with a good answer for peace. The children are being raised in violence, which begets violence. The children grow to be adults who are comfortable with violence. It's all they know. Much like an adult abuser comes from a childhood of abuse. It's all he knows.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:56 AM

23. Hamas happens to be a political party. It is like the American civil rights movement

It has its MLK, Jr types--and also its gun toting Black Panther types. The vote was mostly a protest against PLO corruption. They are shooting rockets for the same reason that kids kick the back seat of the car when their parents are driving to visit Aunt Em in Kansas instead of Disneyland. They have no money and no drivers' licenses--only the limited power to make their parents' power less enjoyable for the parents.

I can't think of anyone who would tolerate being valued at 1/1000th what oppressors in a neighboring country are worth. The rockets are an attempt to assert their worth as maybe being worth 5/1000ths, if that.

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Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:50 AM

8. Maybe they should trade those rockets they're firing

for some nutmeg and corriander.

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Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:48 PM

10. Thanks for posting this. The situation is complex. And depressing.

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Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:35 AM

13. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The Israelis are, in a word, bullies. Their treatment of other human beings is despicable and all that defend should be ashamed.

I find it shameful that we send them arms and money. It is the moral equivalent of backing war crimes.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:06 AM

17. posts like yours gobsmack me. they display an obliviousness

of our own behavior that's shocking. We commit and continue to commit war crimes. Objectively, when it comes to occupation and killing of civilians we are far worse than Israel. So why do you feel no shame over that- and yes, your post makes it clear that you find the support of Israel with money and arms more shameful than our own government's direct actions.

Very odd but you share it with a lot of DUers.

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Response to cali (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:42 AM

21. Where the hell do you come up with that horseshit?

I mean really. Jump to totally false conclusions much, lady?

WTF?

That bunk is so far from the truth, it doesn't deserve an actual response.

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Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:42 AM

14. Our international criminals versus those international criminals.

 

Just compare casualty rates and a picture forms.

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Response to Viking12 (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 02:30 PM

24. Some of the "discussions" I have read in this thread

are eerily reminiscent of the talk that goes on (or doesn't ) between the two territories. Lots of chatting over one another with very little listening. Throwing out mutually disparaging remarks to one another with no accomplishment to understanding. The whole bloody situation is sad.

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