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Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:01 PM

Two Monkeys Were Paid Unequally; See What Happens Next



Any questions?

97 replies, 20390 views

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Reply Two Monkeys Were Paid Unequally; See What Happens Next (Original post)
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 OP
gollygee Nov 2012 #1
arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #33
Rockyj Nov 2012 #59
pscot Nov 2012 #80
awoke_in_2003 Nov 2012 #89
pscot Nov 2012 #93
awoke_in_2003 Nov 2012 #94
GaYellowDawg Nov 2012 #95
tblue Nov 2012 #66
rocktivity Nov 2012 #2
flying rabbit Nov 2012 #3
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #69
ancianita Nov 2012 #4
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #5
Autumn Nov 2012 #6
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #7
xtraxritical Nov 2012 #67
surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #8
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #9
nc4bo Nov 2012 #10
Spazito Nov 2012 #11
barnabas63 Nov 2012 #12
dem4ward Nov 2012 #13
teewrex Nov 2012 #14
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2012 #19
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #27
baldguy Nov 2012 #83
Smarmie Doofus Nov 2012 #76
AnOhioan Nov 2012 #15
SpartanDem Nov 2012 #16
nolabear Nov 2012 #17
Matariki Nov 2012 #25
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #71
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #28
PATXgirl Nov 2012 #32
malthaussen Nov 2012 #84
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #18
MissNostalgia Nov 2012 #20
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #29
MissNostalgia Nov 2012 #36
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #72
Smickey Nov 2012 #21
ReRe Nov 2012 #22
IADEMO2004 Nov 2012 #23
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #24
dchill Nov 2012 #26
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #88
Warpy Nov 2012 #30
RagAss Nov 2012 #38
woo me with science Nov 2012 #40
SmileyRose Nov 2012 #64
Smarmie Doofus Nov 2012 #77
WillyT Nov 2012 #86
L0oniX Nov 2012 #92
DianaForRussFeingold Nov 2012 #31
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #35
Lars39 Nov 2012 #34
Bucky Nov 2012 #37
Cerridwen Nov 2012 #39
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #41
Cerridwen Nov 2012 #44
Lars39 Nov 2012 #46
Cerridwen Nov 2012 #49
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #68
Diclotican Nov 2012 #42
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #51
mick063 Nov 2012 #43
SheilaT Nov 2012 #45
Lars39 Nov 2012 #50
RainDog Nov 2012 #47
kdmorris Nov 2012 #48
zbdent Nov 2012 #52
meeshrox Nov 2012 #53
PD Turk Nov 2012 #54
progressoid Nov 2012 #55
reformist2 Nov 2012 #56
burrowowl Nov 2012 #57
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #58
Shankapotomus Nov 2012 #60
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #63
Historic NY Nov 2012 #61
AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #96
tclambert Nov 2012 #62
Change has come Nov 2012 #65
Cha Nov 2012 #70
Journeyman Nov 2012 #73
trof Nov 2012 #74
magical thyme Nov 2012 #75
slackmaster Nov 2012 #78
rjones2818 Nov 2012 #79
Yavin4 Nov 2012 #81
baldguy Nov 2012 #82
romana Nov 2012 #85
StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #90
romana Nov 2012 #91
kooljerk666 Nov 2012 #87
mzteaze Nov 2012 #97

Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:08 PM

1. That was hilarious

They have so much personality.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:14 PM

33. That is exactly what I said out loud while chuckling!

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Response to gollygee (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:49 PM

59. I wonder if their personalities would change...

If one Monkey was forced to watch only Fox News & the other Monkey MSNBC?

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Response to Rockyj (Reply #59)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:12 AM

80. Cruelty to dumb animals

Peta would come down on them like a thousand of brick.

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Response to pscot (Reply #80)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:26 PM

89. I wouldn't call any of the primates dumb. nt

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #89)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 04:24 PM

93. Obviously you didn't see Meet the Press

this morning.

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Response to pscot (Reply #93)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 07:20 PM

94. Good point. nt

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Response to pscot (Reply #80)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 07:33 PM

95. Really?

Peta would come down on them like a thousand of brick.

Because fuck PETA. Bunch of self-promoters whose usefulness passed some time ago.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

66. It is and it really really isn't.

I think of how black people and women* have been systematically under-compensated and all the efforts to stifle their voices and deny them validation. It's not funny.

Who can blame anyone in that position for throwing back the cucumber?

*Full disclosure: I am both but I would say this even if i wasn't.


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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:10 PM

2. They should have switched

they should have started giving the monkey on the right the cucumber!


rocktivity

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:13 PM

3. We haven't evolved that much. nt

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Response to flying rabbit (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 02:34 AM

69. What would be so "evolved" about not caring? ~nt

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:13 PM

4. Priceless.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:14 PM

5. K&R!!!

 

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:17 PM

6. No questions at all. I understand that completely

Awesome.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:19 PM

7. This cracks me up every time I watch it!

That little monkey knows she's not being given equal pay for equal work.

When she throws the piece of cucumber at the lab worker, I burst out laughing every time! Too funny!!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 11:27 PM

67. I like it at the end where he says "this is basically the Wall St. protest that you see here.".

 

I'm sure he's referring to Occupy and Zucotti Park.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:20 PM

8. k & r

great video

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:20 PM

9. FUCKIN' AYE!



PB

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:23 PM

10. It kind of speaks for itself doesn't it.

I found that very interesting.

Thanks for posting!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:24 PM

11. I love this....

and how the speaker relates it to the Wall Street protests. Excellent comparison.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:25 PM

12. FOOD FIGHT!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:27 PM

13. Great video! Point proven!

 

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:31 PM

14. I think those monkeys are smarter than we are

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Response to teewrex (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:40 PM

19. The question would be whether you can convince the one getting cucumber to enjoy it

Would be interesting to see whether you can develop ideology among capuchin's: can you get the cucumber monkey to desire its own repression. If not, then monkeys would be more evolved than humans!

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:59 PM

27. Cucumbers have less sugar than grapes, so you probably could not.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:42 AM

83. Make it look like regularly getting a grape is a bad deal.

Just say "The monkeys who say everyone should get grapes? They want all the grapes for themselves! You know you get a grape every once in a while under the current system, right? Well, with them you'll never get any grapes, ever! And they want to take your cucumber away from you, too!"

Or distract them with irrelevancies or plain lies: "You know, those other monkeys? You know, they're communists and atheists!"

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Response to teewrex (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:14 AM

76. Or more honest. n/t

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:33 PM

15. Perfect, Love it

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:33 PM

16. Someone foward this to the RNC

maybe they'll finally understand the concept.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:33 PM

17. Makes perfect sense to me. The GOP solution is to starve the monkey til it takes anything.

And then to look down on it for only having cucumber.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:58 PM

25. Your post is as profoundly insightful as it is sad.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:12 AM

71. Truly.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:59 PM

28. Very true.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:09 PM

32. Nailed it!!

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Response to nolabear (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:53 AM

84. Yer a bloody philosopher, Nolabear. n/t

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:35 PM

18. K&R nt

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:48 PM

20. This can be related to information in America

I think the rest of the world is more informed than us in America, they get the grapes of real journalism, so to speak.

<<<<<

While we get the cucumbers/stones of MSM. And on the rare occasion we do get a grape , it becomes under attack or destroyed, for example KPOJ.

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Response to MissNostalgia (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:01 PM

29. Hey, great video.

Thanks for posting. We Americans can be so insular and provincial sometimes. I love hearing the opinions of people outside of our bubble of MSM-controlled information. Get your info from the internet FTW!!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:25 PM

36. Yes, I liked this video

It was refreshing to hear people speak of President Obama with a fair perspective, and not echo fox talking points.

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Response to MissNostalgia (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:25 AM

72. I love the "Romney's finished!" "Yes we can!" guy. Something about this report as compared to US

tv news reports. Maybe in the way they allowed silence as they showed the various locations and there was no commentary between or during the people speaking their opinions. Very interesting to see this from that perspective as well as seeing what some from other countries thought about the election.

thanks for posting. Also, K&R for the vid in the OP. Hilarious and fascinating.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:53 PM

21. k&r n/t

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:53 PM

22. That was hillarious!

K&R

Thank you StrictlyRockers for sharing this. You rock!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:55 PM

23. Regret only one rec to give.

2 fun

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:56 PM

24. poor lil monkey!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:59 PM

26. Hilarious, except -

We're the Monkees!

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Response to dchill (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:18 PM

88. Not really

The disadvantaged monkeys will shit in their hand and throw it at you. Most humans do nothing. Some even encourage the paymaster.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:05 PM

30. Wall Street better realize that our cages are made of

hot air and their wishful thinking. They'd better realize that there aren't enough cops to beat us all to pulp.

It would help if more of us would realize it, too.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:25 PM

38. Amen.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:30 PM

40. +1000000000

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Response to Warpy (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:42 PM

64. + 1 gazillion

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Response to Warpy (Reply #30)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:16 AM

77. Good one:

"Wall Street better realize that our cages are made of

hot air and their wishful thinking. "

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Response to Warpy (Reply #30)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:09 PM

86. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!!


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Response to Warpy (Reply #30)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 03:47 PM

92. 740 Park Ave. NY, NY = target!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:08 PM

31. K&R More:

Elephants at 5:40:

Dogs have feelings too!

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Response to DianaForRussFeingold (Reply #31)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:21 PM

35. Thanks for the grapes!

I've seen that dog voice over vid before, but it is still good for a laugh. Very well done.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:16 PM

34. Notice, though, that the "grape" monkey didn't give his back or share with the other monkey.

Last edited Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:52 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:25 PM

37. I don't think we'll get them to replace the elephant with a grape monkey

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:28 PM

39. In a different combination of "chimps" one did

refuse the grape unless the other received a grape, too.

It's available at youtube in a longer clip of the video: and comes up about 15:48.

There's more to the complete study than just this one snippet.



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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #39)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:31 PM

41. Thanks for posting this, Cerridwen!

I love it when people do more of the research I was hoping to do. I was definitely interested in hearing more about this scientist's studies. He is very interesting.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Reply #41)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:33 PM

44. I may have to look for the whole thing.

These snippets, mine and the one in the OP, don't show the complete picture and can lead to false assumptions based on incomplete information.

Oh, and you're welcome.

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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #39)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:37 PM

46. Ohhh, thanks for posting that, Cerridwen!

Gives one hope, doesn't it.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #46)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:44 PM

49. It does, at that. :) n/t

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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:06 AM

68. +1 and thanks for putting this up. n/t

 

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:33 PM

42. StrictlyRockers

StrictlyRockers

IT is sad when a monkey have better understanding of what is right - and what is wrong than most humans...

But it is also somewhat funny to look at - because it tells so much about how even a monkey can get understanding of what is right - and what is wrong - and that it is wrong to give one something delicious, and not the other ones...

Something they should try to learn on Wall Street maybe?

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #42)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:47 PM

51. Oh, I agree.

I think that by studying our animal cousins, there are many lessons we can learn on how to be more human. It may feel a bit ironic, but that's only because of our own misinformation on what we are and how we are supposed to act. "Human nature" is an old construct that serves an agenda. This guy is disproving some of those old assumptions.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:33 PM

43. If the monkey on the left

 

could understand Fox News, it would be happy with the cucumber.


Devo was right. We really have de evolved.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:34 PM

45. Humans need to take a lesson from this and

refuse to work for unequal pay.

The only reason the Evil Overlords get away with it is because, unlike the Capuchin monkeys, we don't just throw anything in their faces.

I wonder at what point the monkey getting cucumbers refused to give rocks, or if it continued doing its side of the task, always hoping for the better reward. If that's the case, then in that respect they are behaving exactly as humans behave: continuing to do something in the (futile) hope of getting a better reward.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #45)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:44 PM

50. Or threw the rocks.

Looks like the person had a bit of riot gear on.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:42 PM

47. k&r n/t

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:42 PM

48. That was an awesome video!

Funny as hell, too...

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:56 PM

52. Ladies and gentlemen ... we have just seen ...

the first step to the future envisioned in "Planet of the Apes" ...

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:01 PM

53. Awesome!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:03 PM

54. Awesome

I'd be curious to know if it went on for a while, is there a point where the cucumber monkey goes "on strike" and refuses to do the work of handing the rock out?

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:24 PM

55. Awww, I hope they gave him/her some grapes eventually.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:32 PM

56. I love how the monkey tested the rock to make sure he/she wasn't doing anything wrong!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:37 PM

57. Even Monkeys Know

what injustice means!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:45 PM

58. LOL...

smart monkey
.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:50 PM

60. This should go in the Video section too

K & R

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #60)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:33 PM

63. Will do. n/t

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 08:25 PM

61. We don't want not stinking cucumber!...

smart monkees, grapes make wine, wine is good, its mommies little helper.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #61)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:42 AM

96. Lulz. =p

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 08:33 PM

62. I'm gonna go tell my boss I'm sick of cucumbers!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

65. Too cute!

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 04:45 AM

70. Smart the Capuchin Monkeys! Shaking

the cage with his little arm..throwing back rocks and cucumbers.. poor thing!


Thanks for the Vid, StrictlyRockers~

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:53 AM

73. K&R. . .

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 07:21 AM

74. K&R

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:30 AM

75. I don't need to see the video to guess that the well-paid monkey shared

I just saw a NOVA special on animal psychology.

Not only did the monkeys share, so did the (4-legged) rats. In fact, the free rat worked very hard to figure out the trap and release the trapped rat in order to share with it.

It was only the 2-legged rats that didn't share.

The one qualifier I would add. The well-paid animals were also well-fed. I wonder how it would go if both animals were very hungry, not just looking for a treat for truly hungry. But I would not like that experiment to be performed. I had a real problem with animal experiments. Too often they are proving what simple observation, without deliberately inflicting suffering, shows us every day.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:18 AM

78. Failed analogy. The monkeys are being "paid" for doing nothing.

 

Humans are smart enough to understand that wagers are compensation for labor done or services rendered.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:39 AM

79. The bosses will actually love this....

The monkey on the left, while protesting, keeps giving her keeper a rock.

Keep that in mind.

The bosses would see this as a great thing. Sure, they won't enjoy getting covered with metaphorical cucumbers, but they still get the work done for them. Plus, they get to keep the metaphorical cucumber that's thrown back at them. What's not to love? They'll keep doing that until the monkey actually stops giving the rock.

Then Hostess happens.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:25 AM

81. Ah, See This Is Why Fox News Exists

These monkeys need to be propagandized into thinking that the unfair pay is due to some other darker species of monkey.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:32 AM

82. The monkey on the left needs a union.

Last edited Sun Nov 18, 2012, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)

And the monkey on the right no doubt thinks this is the natural order of the universe, and any desire for change to a more equitable arrangement is simply communism.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 12:46 PM

85. Original study

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but the original study by deWaal caused quite a stir in the primate research community when it was originally published in Nature in 2003. The experimental design and data are deeply flawed, and the results are over-interpreted. There are alternative explanations for the behavior based more on food preferences that are never addressed in the original paper, for example.

I use the study in several classes, to illustrate a few experimental pitfalls.

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Response to romana (Reply #85)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 03:34 PM

90. Thank you for the clarification on the validity of the study.

I still find the video to be very funny.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Reply #90)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 03:45 PM

91. Yes

It is a fun video, just wanted to make sure people know the fairness interpretation is controversial. . Thanks for posting it, though.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:12 PM

87. AS guy in vid sez, dogs understand "Fair" treatment also.....

 

To the list of the qualities of dogs — enthusiastic and steadfast come to mind — can be added another. That pooch of yours, researchers say, may be envious.

Scientists in Austria report in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that a dog may stop obeying a command if it sees that another dog is getting a better deal.

In this way dogs may be showing a sensitivity that is similar to, although perhaps more primitive than, that shown by chimpanzees and some monkeys. Until now those primates were the only nonhumans to show what is called “inequity aversion” in the absence of a reward.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/science/09obenvy.html?_r=0

I bet the monkey on the left would get really, really mad over time.

I'd like to see how long it takes till the ripped off monkey tries to kill the ripper offer.

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Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:54 AM

97. That's really funny

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