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Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:29 AM

If someone was a violent man from a violent family and murdered your son or daughter...

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by REP (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Let's say for the sake of argument that we have a violent man from a violent family. Further more he's from a very poor family that lives in a ghetto neighbourhood. Nearby is a very rich neighbourhood. There is a lot of tension between these two communities, the rich don't like the poor and feel uncomfortable living next to a high crime neighbourhood. Similarly the poor feel used and looked down upon by the rich. One day the man walks into the rich neighbourhood and happens across a teenager playing basketball, a fight ensues and the poor man murders the teenager in cold blood.

Given the scenario above would the following response be justified?

The family of the rich man go into the poor neighbourhood and kills the man responsible for the murder of their son. However they also kill the mans wife, his mother, his father, and his children. Further they set their house on fire and those of several near by homes, killing some of their occupants as well.

I think most people would argue that the family DOES have a right to protect themselves and seek out justice for the murder of their son. But I think most people would say that the response in this case is as bad or worse than the initial crime, that they really only had the right to go after the initial murderer.

If most people feel this way about this scenario why do so many feel so different about what Israel is doing in the middle east? (I'm not arguing that many here on DU do, but outside here many do).

I realize the situation is MUCH more complex than this. But still I think the analogy still holds some water. There are no third party "police" that can be turned to like they can in the scenario I outlined. I also realize that they aren't just killing civilians but ARE targeting militants. The 'targeting' though is so crude that it seems little different at times.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply If someone was a violent man from a violent family and murdered your son or daughter... (Original post)
Locut0s Nov 2012 OP
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #1
aandegoons Nov 2012 #3
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #5
aandegoons Nov 2012 #7
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #12
XemaSab Nov 2012 #4
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #6
graham4anything Nov 2012 #2
Walk away Nov 2012 #8
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #9
redgreenandblue Nov 2012 #13
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #14
Walk away Nov 2012 #17
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #18
Walk away Nov 2012 #15
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #16
quinnox Nov 2012 #10
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #11
quinnox Nov 2012 #19
Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #20
REP Nov 2012 #21

Response to Locut0s (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:35 AM

1. It is a very poor analogy.

It doesn't take into account a number of things, but it is the signature of those who are only interested in blaming Israel, giving Hamas a pass, whilst "tsk, tsk" their bad behavior, which is totally "understandable and justifiable." It demonstrates a lack of understanding of the situation and seeking simplistic answers to a complex situation.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:43 AM

3. His analogy did not only blame Israel.

Take a step back and re-read.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:50 AM

5. I did read it and the point was quite clear. I suggest YOU re-read it.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:52 AM

7. Don't get mad just think.

Would you be as defensive for Custer?

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:02 AM

12. Not mad. Would you get as defensive for the Klan?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:47 AM

4. There's been a lot of wrong done by and to both sides

but if you wait until both sides feel like vengeance has been satisfied, then it won't end until one side is wiped off the face of the earth.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:52 AM

6. Then perhaps people should acknowledge it!

Don't give it the typical "lip service." What is needed is actual negotiations. It isn't just about vengeance, that is also a simplistic view.

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Response to Locut0s (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:41 AM

2. What Zimmerman did in Florida was 100% wrong. Zimmerman was a coward.

 

and the NRA lobby group needs to be abolished.

Now, I realize this analogy might not readily be seen

but it is 100% the same as your scenerio above.

There is a third party police- the UN
There is a third party police-the courts

vigilantism should never be tolerated, neither should anarchy

and the sad truth is, sometimes militants hide behind citizens or use them as shields.

Arafat should have accepted Clinton's offer. That he didn't, got him killed.
HOWEVER, there are a majority of Jews (I am Jewish myself) that want peace in the mideast.

So did Rabin.
and a fellow Jew shot him dead (damn freakin'WMDs are guns, aren't they? Manufactured solely to kill).

A family does NOT have the right to kill someone else.
A family has the right to ask the police to investigate, arrest, then a jury to convict and sentence the person to jail.
but a family does NOT have the right to take justice in their own hands

I would rather throw some $$$ and love and hugs and kisses
instead of resorting to violence

and the question itself reeks of the Dukakis shakedown takedown by CNN moderator of that debate Shaw.

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Response to Locut0s (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:58 AM

8. How about this one. A family decides they own another family's house because of an old myth.

They kick the original owner and his children out but let them live in the back yard with the chickens. They take all of the rights away from the first family, don't let them vote in their own country and treat them like dirt. When the original owner tries to fight back with rocks the new family shoots him. Then they slowly push the rest of the family out of their yard and into the desert. The families around them try to help the original family and attempt to bomb the crap out of the newbies. However, the newbies have a great big friend who gives them plenty of money and fights their wars for them.
All of this because the new family can't get along with any of it's neighbors. Not one of them! But they don't care because they know their big friend will send lot's of young people to get shot up in the unending wars they generate with their behavior.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:59 AM

9. That's even more ignorant than the OP. Congrats!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:02 AM

13. Care to explain why?

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:03 AM

14. Anyone actually familiar with the conflict doesn't need an explanation.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:07 AM

17. Or can't give one? nt

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Response to Walk away (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:09 AM

18. Or can't create a descent analogy so falls on ignorance and false propaganda.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:06 AM

15. Spoken like a true "Second Family"! nt

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Response to Walk away (Reply #15)


Response to Locut0s (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:59 AM

10. and apparently the worth of one citizen is ten times the worth

 

Of another. That seems to be the ratio inflicted when you look at the numbers and this seems to be consistent. Personally, I don't think one person is worth ten of another, no matter what the bible might say in terms of the specialness of a favored people.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:01 AM

11. Ignorant, factually false, and reaching for anti-Semitism.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:10 AM

19. bullcrap

 

Here is the passage from the latest news story on yahoo -"Officials in Gaza said 38 Palestinians, half of them civilians including eight children and a pregnant woman, had been killed in Gaza since Israel began its air strikes. Three Israeli civilians were killed by a rocket on Thursday."

You do the math.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:12 AM

20. bullshit, indeed.

That seems to be the ratio inflicted when you look at the numbers and this seems to be consistent.

If you actually knew the numbers of the conflict, you'd be stepping back from your propaganda bullshit of 10-1 right quick. But then again, seems you and others are all about the body count. What will you ever do when those rockets reach the Israeli cities?!

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Response to Locut0s (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:13 AM

21. Locking

I/P topics are against the Statement of Purpose for General Discussion. Please consider reposting in the appropriate Group. Thank you.

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