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Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:53 PM

 

It wasn't the union that killed the Twinkie. It was vulture capitalism.

Before you go blaming the union for Hostess' demise, look at the facts.

In 1995 a company called International Bakeries, which was essentially a vulture capital arm of a computer company called Data Processing Financial and General Corporation, went on a massive spending spree. They not only bought Hostess but the San Francisco French Bread Company, John J. Nissen Baking Company, Drake's, My Bread Company, and tons of other companies.

They did this by borrowing like batshit crazy and eventually defaulted on their loans, leading to bankruptcy in 2004.

In 2009 they emerged from bankruptcy by BORROWING MORE FUCKING MONEY. They borrowed from Ripplewood Holdings, Silver Point, Monarch, and GE Capital. All these loans caused more payments and more interest accruing, leading to more and more debt. It was this debt that caused their collapse.

If it hadn't been for easy credit, merger mania, leveraged buyouts, and greedy conglomerates whose philosophy was "if you can't beat them buy them out," then all the little brands (including Hostess) that this group of predators bought with borrowed money might still be small and innovative enough to survive financial hard times with little or no debt of their own.

So always remember: it wasn't the unions that killed the Twinkie, it was the modern vulture capitalist culture.

94 replies, 16693 views

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Reply It wasn't the union that killed the Twinkie. It was vulture capitalism. (Original post)
Pab Sungenis Nov 2012 OP
MynameisBlarney Nov 2012 #1
Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #2
Initech Nov 2012 #4
Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #8
Savannahmann Nov 2012 #9
a2liberal Nov 2012 #21
backscatter712 Nov 2012 #22
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #27
amborin Nov 2012 #56
femrap Nov 2012 #67
Hotler Nov 2012 #36
Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #37
Hugabear Nov 2012 #73
Waltg Nov 2012 #41
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #16
Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #25
fleabiscuit Nov 2012 #58
ehrnst Nov 2012 #3
Squinch Nov 2012 #34
thelordofhell Nov 2012 #81
Squinch Nov 2012 #86
thelordofhell Nov 2012 #88
femrap Nov 2012 #68
barbtries Nov 2012 #5
ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2012 #6
hunter Nov 2012 #7
a kennedy Nov 2012 #10
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #11
MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #33
backscatter712 Nov 2012 #44
treestar Nov 2012 #85
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #87
treestar Nov 2012 #93
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #92
treestar Nov 2012 #94
krispos42 Nov 2012 #12
pansypoo53219 Nov 2012 #13
47of74 Nov 2012 #14
TeeYiYi Nov 2012 #15
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #17
progressoid Nov 2012 #40
2naSalit Nov 2012 #59
Hell Hath No Fury Nov 2012 #18
SalviaBlue Nov 2012 #19
Jamaal510 Nov 2012 #20
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #23
libodem Nov 2012 #24
busterbrown Nov 2012 #26
suffragette Nov 2012 #28
sulphurdunn Nov 2012 #29
N_E_1 for Tennis Nov 2012 #30
bupkus Nov 2012 #31
HockeyMom Nov 2012 #32
LeftInTX Nov 2012 #38
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #45
LeftInTX Nov 2012 #48
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #49
WinniSkipper Nov 2012 #50
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #51
WinniSkipper Nov 2012 #52
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #53
WinniSkipper Nov 2012 #55
Heathen57 Nov 2012 #35
Model_T Nov 2012 #39
Pab Sungenis Nov 2012 #43
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #46
SomethingFishy Nov 2012 #42
Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #47
slackmaster Nov 2012 #54
SomeGuyInEagan Nov 2012 #57
triplepoint Nov 2012 #63
femrap Nov 2012 #66
triplepoint Nov 2012 #69
femrap Nov 2012 #91
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #60
triplepoint Nov 2012 #61
texshelters Nov 2012 #62
colsohlibgal Nov 2012 #64
femrap Nov 2012 #65
Hissyspit Nov 2012 #70
BainsBane Nov 2012 #71
hexola Nov 2012 #72
B Calm Nov 2012 #74
valerief Nov 2012 #75
yardwork Nov 2012 #76
orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #77
pipewrench Nov 2012 #78
Teamster Jeff Nov 2012 #80
Libertas1776 Nov 2012 #84
Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #83
Figaro78 Nov 2012 #79
okieinpain Nov 2012 #82
typeviic Nov 2012 #89
DirkGently Nov 2012 #90

Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:56 PM

1. but...but....

soshulisms!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:01 PM

2. But the anti-Labor crowd here on DU totally ignores all of that.

Some guy busting his ass on the line for 50K a year is the reason they are going under.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:20 PM

4. Who here is anti labor?

If anything most of us are against the greedy executives and hedge fund managers who are making our lives miserable while they laugh all the way to the bank.

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Response to Initech (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:27 PM

8. Look here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021830337

Lots of The Usual Suspects posting in that thread.

Same ones that are consistently anti-worker, and always pro-management posts.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:31 PM

9. Tell me about it.

I've been banging my head on that thread all day so far. I'm astounded that so many of us revert to Rethug talking points about the greed of unions when the trouble raises it's head.

Why not have the Unions petition the Bankruptcy court to go for employee ownership? Because we're damned fools, and we're so quick to buy into Rethug bullshit.

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:55 PM

21. That's what happens when both parties move so far to the right

The less-crazy conservatives are being driven away by the Republicans and being welcomed with open arms by the already corporatist Democrats (instead of making their own less crazy conservative party or taking back the Republican party:, further feeding the rightward spiral.

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:56 PM

22. I don't know why DU puts up with these scabs...

If I were in MIRT or an admin, I'd have banned these fucks long ago.

Jack London is inspiring me...

After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful
substance left with which he made a SCAB.

A SCAB is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination
backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten
principles.

When a SCAB comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven,
and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out.

No man (or woman) has a right to SCAB so long as there is a pool of water to drown his
carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared
with a SCAB. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A
SCAB has not.

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of
silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British army.
The SCAB sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an
unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor
to his country; a SCAB is a traitor to his God, his country, his family, and his class.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #22)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:06 PM

27. So how bad do you suppose it will have to get before enough people wake up

 

and re-learn the lessons of the 19th century?

There are people here that claim $15 p/hr is a good job. Is it really just an arithmetic problem?

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:28 PM

56. no time now to look at that other thread, but

seeing anti-union sentiments here is nothing new; but still shocking; unions built the middle class in
this country and all workers should be grateful for alll the have accomplished---for the benefit of ALL workers.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:11 AM

67. Thanks for the

 

post...love those words!

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:25 PM

36. The same suspects that shout down taking to the streets for any protest. nt

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Response to Hotler (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:28 PM

37. Never question those better than you. Knuckle under. Take what they give you.

Authoritarians need bootlicks.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:30 AM

73. And here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021832221

Again, some of the anti-union posters don't surprise me one bit.

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Response to Initech (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:13 PM

41. Unions helped build the middle class

The most overpaid job in America is the CEO. We have the highest paid CEOs in the world. Even if they are doing a good job, they are overpaid. And it began with the evolution of the Reagan revolution.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:41 PM

16. 50K? More like $33K ($16/hr), to be reduced to $22K ($11/hr)

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:01 PM

25. Figure 'all in'; pension contributions, health care, paid vacation time, etc.

That's how we figured total compensation on my local's bargaining commitee, it was never just the wages paid.

Everything was part of the package, they always wanted the total number.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:44 PM

58. Grrrrr...

If you're not pro-labor/pro-union then you're NOT a Democrat in my book.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:16 PM

3. And to help avoid the first bankruptcy, Labor made huge concessions

"Hostess was able to exit bankruptcy in 2009 for three reasons. The first was Ripplewood's equity infusion of $130 million in return for control of the company (it currently owns about two-thirds of the equity). The second reason: substantial concessions by the two big unions. Annual labor cost savings to the company were about $110 million; thousands of union members lost their jobs. The third reason: Lenders agreed to stay in the game rather than drive Hostess into liquidation and take whatever pieces were left. The key lenders were Silver Point and Monarch. Both are hedge funds that specialize in investing in distressed companies -- whether you call them saviors or vultures depends on whether you're getting fed or getting eaten."


http://management.fortune.cnn.com/tag/gregory-rayburn/

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:18 PM

34. And management voted themselves millions in raises this past summer

No discussion of this topic is complete without this information that another DUer, thelordofhell, posted in an earlier thread:

Salary Increases at Hostess

Some creditors question Hostess pay raises approved in late July.

Brian Driscoll, CEO, around $750,000 to $2,550,000
Gary Wandschneider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000
John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000
David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Richard Seban, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000
Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 to $273,008


So the line people gave up a lot, are now being asked to take huge salary cuts, and these pigs are giving themselves a couple million extra. Please. Get rid of them, and the company will probably be profitable for some smart acquirer.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:08 PM

81. I posted that in several threads..............

Here's the funny part.........this group of CEO's and VP's "graciously" cut their salaries to try to "save" the company from being liquidated. Now, of course, since it's now in liquidation mode, all these scumbags are going to get backpaid for their inflated salaries while they dump the pension fund on the taxpayers.............

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #81)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:23 PM

86. Hey! I think your point and the information you uncovered is crucial to this discussion. It's all

we really need to know to understand what is going on with Hostess.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #86)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:45 PM

88. What's been happening to Hostess is ruthless corporate raiding

Straight out of the playbook of dirty capitalism........buy with no money, leverage to the hilt, make crony head of company, pocket all money, plead poverty, liquidate.........it's disgusting and should be illegal.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:28 AM

68. I got thru

 

about half of the article before my eyes crossed. That's what the vultures do...they make your eyes cross with duplicity and trying to keep the scorecard correct.

I did send the article to myself to read in the morning.

I hate private equity and hedge funds....and probably most of the people that work with them. Who knew that Gephardt was involved in this?

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:22 PM

5. i know i wasn't about to blame the union.

especially after i saw the list of the raises the suits gave themselves before bellying up.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:23 PM

6. And the list of iconic name brands continues to shrink thanks

to the greed and mismanagement.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:26 PM

7. Kicked and recommended.

This kind of capitalism destroys businesses, reduces the incomes of ordinary people, and increases unemployment rates.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:12 PM

10. Thank you, and this will be distributed to my non-union friends.....

They so piss me off.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:15 PM

11. kr. Lots of "Democrats" are happy to have hostess go under so people won't eat

 

twinkies.

Not eating twinkies is a much higher social good than jobs or living wages.

Fasting is good for health.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:17 PM

33. Hopefully, they're not any more happier with that then they are...

... of driving cars with combustable engines. Seems like somebody's gonna buy Toyotas or SUVs made in Ohio or Kentucky, people.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:20 PM

44. Amazing how certain posters suddenly get "concerned" about nutrition when union issues come up. n/t

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:03 PM

85. In this case though, another competitor can take up the market

That company failed and could not manage, but another company can step in. It's not something they can move to China.

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Response to treestar (Reply #85)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:24 PM

87. the competitor that will probably step in is bimbo, who also owns entermans (sp?).

 

and they already makes lots of their product in mexico and ship it to the us.

yes, it can be outsourced.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #87)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:26 PM

93. Oh geez

but Mexico I can live with.

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Response to treestar (Reply #85)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:10 PM

92. they can move it to mexico, or a lot of it. or to canada. or even to china, actually.

 

whatever new company comes in, it will have less headcount, lower wages, and produce fewer product lines.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #92)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:27 PM

94. I don't eat their stuff

but if they ship it in from China? No way.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:22 PM

12. The Wikipedia article is intersting

The original Interstate Bakeries merged with the Schulze Baking Company. Then, IB wound up buying a bunch of smaller bakeries from the 40's to the 70's, finally becoming Interstate Brands.

They were bought by a computer-leasing company called DPFGC, that was trying to change business sectors after getting in legal trouble with IBM and the anti-trust laws.

After divesting was complete, DPFGC changed its name to IBC Holdings, in 1987. 4 years later it was, again, Interstate Bakeries, and publicly traded.

In 1995, IB bought Continental Baking, which included Hostess and Wonder Bread. They also bought J. Nissen Baking at this time.


They went into bankruptcy in 2004, then emerged from 2009 with the help of, among others, GE Capital. They closed 10% of their facilities and laid of 30% of their workforce.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:33 PM

13. crapitalism.

money shifting. read kevin philips 'american theocracy part 1 + 2. this is the end of mpre ala spain 1500's.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:33 PM

14. Yep the reich wing is having a field day

Blaming the unions of course.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:39 PM

15. Hostess employees agree...

I found the following post in the comments section of the WSJ:

12:10 am November 13, 2012
St Louis wrote :
Unions are not what is wrong with Hostess. Management is what is wrong. My husband has worked for WonderBread for 13 years. Explain to me how 4 mgrs for 5 employees makes sense? Tell me how the company goes into bankruptcy but can pay someone $1million to “fix” the company. Those that are not involved with the company can say anything. It’s always the Unions fault. If you only knew what was really going on within that company.This statement is exactly what has happened. St Louis has been rumored to close for at least 3 yrs now. I would like to see you go to work tomorrow and say OK to a any paycut. At some point you have to stick up for yourself. I am a Hostess employee. Hostess stopped our pension contributions a yr & a half ago. Then they gave the top execs pay raises of 30-80%. They offered new contracts: no pension payments (no retirement plan at all for union employees, but company management still gets contributions to their retirement plans) for another 2 & 1/2 yrs, and then a 75% reduction in pension when they do start paying into it again; we have to pay an ADDITIONAL $200/ mo for health insurance; They took away our last cost of living raise; they gave us an 8% wage cut on top of that; they are outsourcing all of the office work to Manilla; they are closing 12 plants. THIS WAS ALL PART OF THE CONTRACT THAT WENT INTO EFFECT LAST MONTH!! The 3 bakery closures were not due to the labor strike, they were locations on the closure list. Hostess used the opportunity provided by the strike to close them w/o having to pay severance or give notice. Hostess will be closing more plants whether the strike is resolved or not. We were told that if both major unions did not accept the new contracts, Hostess would IMMEDIATELT liquidate and we would all lose our jobs. Teamsters accepted (barely), Bakers did not. Hostess didn’t liquidate. We were told that if there was any kind of a strike, Hostess would IMMEDIATELY liquidate & we would lose our jobs. Bakers went on strike, Hostess didn’t liquidate. The Seattle bakery was literally 100 years old. They have been talking about closing it for years. Of the 3 plants closed- the only one on official strike was Seattle. St. Louis & Cincinnati were not on strike. It’s frustrating for Hostess employees working their butts off and taking all these cuts, to still see Management driving luxury rental cars, flying all over the county at $1,000/ ticket, having meetings in Vegas, spending $200/ night on hotels, $75 on ONE meal for ONE person, golf tournaments at $1,000/ea, throwing away MASSIVE amounts of product because they don’t do their jobs right, the list goes on. We keep taking cuts and they keep wasting money. We took cuts a few yrs ago (during the LAST bankruptcy) and the money was supposed to be used to update equipment, facilities, 50 yr old route trucks; new product development, etc. None of that ever happened. They wasted the money and then came back to us for more. Where are their cuts and sacrifices? I wish people out there would realize what’s going on. 6 CEOs in the past few yrs?? Doesn’t anyone see what’s wrong w/ this picture? There’s no one there anymore who truly cares about this company. It’s nobody’s ‘baby’. Nobody w/ the power to make decisions loves it. They just care about the money. It’s heartbreaking. I don’t blame any of the employees for finally saying they’ve had enough.



http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2012/11/12/twinkies-maker-hostess-announces-shutdown-have-we-heard-this-before/tab/comments/

TYY


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Response to TeeYiYi (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:43 PM

17. +1. the more i read, the more i believe this is a case of those in charge deliberately

 

looting the company & driving it into bankruptcy.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:10 PM

40. +1

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:49 PM

59. Classic

R$/Bain strategy.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:47 PM

18. THose fuckers were responsible -

for the closing of SF's finest sourdough bread bakeries -- Parisian. I could have ripped out throats when I heard the news they were closing our bakery because of their financial shenanigans.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:50 PM

19. Kick to read later. Thanks.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:53 PM

20. The "My Way Or The Highway" Mindset at its finest!

Didn't you know? Whenever your preferred presidential candidate loses an election, you're supposed to seek some get-back by laying off workers and driving up the unemployment rate!

They always want to frame Obama as being some totalitarian and akin to Hitler, but it seems like Republicans themselves feel entitled to be in power. They're drunk with power, and they throw temper tantrums when people don't support their regressive agenda. At least when Bush 2 was president, you never saw any rich liberals intentionally laying off workers to drive up the UE rate. It's a shame, though, because I really like Hostess and their Twinkies and Suzy Q's and cupcakes.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:00 PM

23. If only we'd known. If only someone had been warning us about the consequences of

 

this madness.

Oh... wait...

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:01 PM

24. No doubt

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:05 PM

26. Thank You for the info.


Perfect ammunition for why unfettered capitalism is so dangerous.!
I wish and hope main stream media picks up on this story, but unlikely!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:06 PM

28. Exactly. And it looks like FTI was brought in to liquidate it, sell off brands and property

and direct blame at the union.

Haven't had time to read all of this, but notice the union blaming and casting work rules as "restrictive."

At the same time, note the prominent use of liquidate in its various forms.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78174995/4/The-FTI-Consulting-Engagement

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78174995/26/Professional-Compensation

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:07 PM

29. Greedy sociopaths

are driven, ruthless, remorseless and useful people, but they have to be on a short leash with treats dangled from a string in front of them and rationed out as they learn to do the tricks normal people want them to do. Right now, normal people are the ones on the leashes and the treats get smaller and punishments more sever for not doing more and more cheap tricks for the dogs.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:07 PM

30. Buy a couple thousand boxes now ...

They last for decades!!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)


Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:13 PM

32. My Republican blamed the UNION

I then asked him when was the last time you bought Twinkies or Hostess Cupcakes? While I am not happy about employees, especially Union. losing their jobs, maybe the time has come because of the PRODUCT? I didn't eat Twinkies as a kid in the 50s (sugary YUCK), so I most certainly don't want them now.

He agreed with me, when I REASONED with him.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:35 PM

38. Demand for their products has probably gone down

Other snack foods out there.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:26 PM

45. average revenue since 2003 = about $3 billion a year. In 2003 they made a profit

 

of $27 million.

In 2004 they took the company into bankruptcy and have been posting huge losses ever since, despite massive concessions from labor and cheapening of the product ingredients.

It's nothing to do with declining demand, it's looting.

http://www.privco.com/private-company/hostess-brands-inc

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #45)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 06:34 PM

48. Sorry about that. I was talking off the cuff & didn't have the facts.

This is a complicated issue that involves more than their product line.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #48)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 06:39 PM

49. no need for sorry but yeah, it's not about their product line at all -- except the looters

 

have degraded the product line as well, with the substitution of cheaper ingredients and changes in the formulary.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #45)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 06:48 PM

50. And the next 2 years

 

lost 37M and 379M - which looks to be when they went into BR

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Response to WinniSkipper (Reply #50)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 06:54 PM

51. They went into bankruptcy 9/04, the very next year after they made nearly $30 million

 

in profit.

The "bankruptcy" lasted until 2009, and they hemmorhaged money the entire time, still making that $3B a year in revenues -- while shedding 1/3 of their workforce and getting big concessions from labor -- $110 million a year.

not to mention that the company had *already* stolen the pension fund back in the 80s.

my, my how quickly things change in the biz world.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #51)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:05 PM

52. Correct

 

Right after they made 30M - which is not a great profit on 3B.

The guys running this were clowns

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Response to WinniSkipper (Reply #52)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:06 PM

53. correction: thieves.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #53)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:19 PM

55. Did they try to sell the company?

 

I haven't seen this mentioned - did IB try to sell the company either while they were in bankruptcy or after they came out?

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:18 PM

35. Excellent research Pat.

I want to copy this to shut up some anti-union guys on the local television's Facebook page. I will give you full credit for it of course.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:55 PM

39. I am confused

There are some on the right gloating over this because one of the investors after the first bankruptcy is Tim Collins of Ripplewood Holdings, whom they are claiming is a big democratic supporter????????

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Response to Model_T (Reply #39)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:18 PM

43. Ripplewood made out like bandits.

 

They pulled a Bain and took out a nine-digit loan in the company's name and pocketed half of it because they owned 50% equity. Then the company goes bankrupt and Ripplewood's equity becomes worthless but no matter because they made more because of the loan scheme.

And Republican or Democrat, a crook is a crook.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Reply #43)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:32 PM

46. "Republican or Democrat, a crook is a crook." = +1. Collins also = Citibank.

 

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:14 PM

42. Thanks, was about to post an angry rant about this...

I don't understand how people can look at this and blame the union. These people would rather be unemployed in the holiday season than to give another concession to some Wall Street "private equity" firm. And why would they, why would someone take a pay cut, offer up their pension and health care benefits so some asshole can afford gold faucets on his yacht?

Fuck Hostess.

If I had any money I'd be buying stock in Little Debbie at this point.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:33 PM

47. k&r

The anti-worker narrative around this makes me want to vomit. ALL of that wealth was created by the hard work of the people who are now being treated like scum. When will this country ever learn?

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:08 PM

54. I come here not to mourn the Twinkie, but to bury it.

 

Good riddance.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #54)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:29 PM

57. Not just Twinkies ....

From WSJ blog:

Sweet Snacks
Twinkies
CupCakes
Ding Dongs
Ho Hos
Sno Balls
Donettes
Devil Dogs – Drake’s
Funny Bones – Drake’s
Ring Dings – Drake’s
CoffeeCakes – Drake’s
Blueberry Muffins – Drake’s
Yodels – Drake’s

Breads
Wonder
Nature’s Pride
Merita
Home Pride
Beefsteak
Butternut
Millbrook
Eddy’s
J.J. Nissen
Sweetheart
Cotton’s Holsum
Sunbeam
Bread du Jour

As for breads, they are not including the store brands, which were also baked and shipped to grocery stores (typically still warm when the route drivers put in on the store shelves, same as all of the bread brands listed above).

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Response to SomeGuyInEagan (Reply #57)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 12:23 AM

63. Most if not ALL of What Hostess Made Was Junk Food

 

Maybe Dr. Oz will do an Anti-Tribute Show on this soon. Use to think of Hostess's line of products as bomb shelter junk food.

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Response to triplepoint (Reply #63)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:07 AM

66. When there was a storm

 

predicted and the electric was assumed to go off, that is the kind of food I allowed myself to buy....didn't need refrigeration and sugar rush eventually put me to sleep. And I'd buy that disgusting cheese stuff in a can. So gross, but in a way, it really attached to my taste buds.

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Response to femrap (Reply #66)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 02:39 AM

69. Rodney Dangerfield: "Great Whiz, but How'd You Make It So Thick?"

 

Cheese Whiz on a Hostess Twinkie...Now, that's living.. .....

Zippy the Pinhead (comic strip character) likes Hostess Ding Dongs with Taco Sauce. That's his fuel food:



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Response to triplepoint (Reply #69)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 08:43 PM

91. I wasn't a big fan

 

of the Hostess 'goodies,' but I have to admit that the cheese in a 'whipped cream' container was fun. It costs a fortune now! I grew up in the Heartland where processed Velvetta was a mainstay of casseroles and appetizers.

It reminds me of my childhood. Cheese Whiz on a Triscuit!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:52 PM

60. A "King Kong" allusion? "Oh no, it wasn't the airplanes. It was beauty killed the beast."

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:43 PM

61. On His Death Bed, "Inventor" of the Twinkie Claimed It Wasn't World's Ultimate Junk Food

 

... Then, he died.

Dewar, who said he ate at least two packets of Twinkies a week, vigorously defended the wholesomeness of the snack, which has been described as the "cream puff of the proletariat."

"Some people say Twinkies are the quintessential junk food, but I believe in the things," he once said. "I fed them to my four kids, and they feed them to to my 15 grandchildren. My boy Jimmy played football for the Cleveland Browns. My other son, Bobby, played quarterback for the University of Rochester. Twinkies never hurt them."

Reference Link:
http://articles.latimes.com/1985-07-03/local/me-10272_1_twinkie-defense

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 12:29 AM

64. Legalized Looting by Romney Types

I'm amazed this is legal - and it didn't used to be. Just another mechanism where they can transfer more money upward in the food chain, screw the "little people" who get hurt. And the right whines about class warfare. They do everything but turn us upside down to shake our change out.

I heard a guy call Hartmann today and stridently blame the unions for this - how anyone can be this misguided is beyond me. But they're out there. Last night on our local news they had the guy who apparently has spearheaded Ohio's online petition to exit the US. He was 25 at the most and said he was just crushed Romney lost, and thought he only lost because half the nation is insane. I tend to agree but the other way around, though it's more like 48% - and this kid was exhibit A. I hope he gets his head out of you know where before he's too far gone.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:05 AM

65. The MSM is reporting that

 

not only is the Union the problem, but American's tastes have changed to more healthy snacks.

I guess that's why there is no obesity nor diabetes problem here either.

How stupid are people if they believe this crap????

Thank you, OP for the info. What a buying spree of bakeries??? How dare anyone accuse women of buying too many shoes!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:48 AM

70. No, it has to be the unions' fault because, you know...

unions.

Just the same way it's always teachers' fault because, you know... teachers.

Can't possibly be anyone else's fault.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:50 AM

71. Isn't it that they make crap?

that no one wants to eat anymore? I have a fierce sweet tooth, but I'll go to a local bakery and buy something good. I haven't eaten a Hostess product since high school.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 03:59 AM

72. Terrible analogy...Vultures dont kill anything...they are scavengers.

They pick up stuff that has already been killed.

In this case - its just as likely that the capitalists will keep the brand/business alive.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:06 AM

74. This is how Romney became a very rich man!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 08:37 AM

75. Heard your name mentioned on Thom Hartman's show on my drive home

yesterday. It was about this post.

Informative post.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 08:38 AM

76. Right on.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 08:41 AM

77. Can you imagine one of these misanthropes wanted to be our...

Daddy !!!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:40 AM

78. Unions were set-up

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-16/pabst-owner-metropoulos-is-considering-bid-for-hostess-brands.html

“We have analyzed this opportunity very carefully for a few years now,” Metropoulos said in an e-mail. “Shedding the complications of the unions and old plants makes it even more attractive.”

sad..sad day.

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Response to pipewrench (Reply #78)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:54 AM

80. That makes total sense

There is no doubt in my mind that this strike played out just fine for the group that owns Hostess. They can scapegoat the Unions and shed the Unions at the same. Sell the brand and cash out.

It was a no-win situation for the workers

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Response to Teamster Jeff (Reply #80)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:37 PM

84. Indeed

Hostess' webpage is so infuriating to look at. Something along the lines of "A crippling Baker's Union strike has forced us to shut down and liquidate" Yes it was all the union's fault. No mention of the years of mismanagement at the top. It was just a bakers strike that did twinkie the kid in bastards, talk about a snow job...or i suppose i should say sno-ball job.

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Response to pipewrench (Reply #78)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:31 PM

83. And there it is.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:52 AM

79. The Twinkie is NOT dead...

 

...it has a half life of 2.5 million years.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 01:21 PM

82. What I don't understand is

Why didn't the union buy the stupid company. The union has friends in high and low places they should start using them and buy up some of these companies.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 04:56 PM

89. The vulture capitalist company....

 

loads them up with debt, pockets much of the money, then the company goes out of business. Then, the corporate controlled "media" complains about those gosh-darn union workers that killed the business..........

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:07 PM

90. Pretty obvious ratcheting of the "blame labor" theme at the last second.


They were already going down in flames, and no amount of line crossing would have brought them back.

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