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Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:20 AM

Taxes are not *your* money-"You want to live in a civilized society, you pay taxes. Get. Over. It.”

Taxes are not *your* money. Get. Over. It.
Posted on November 16, 2012

Paying For a More Civilized Society

“Oh please. Taxes are not *your* money. If people could give up the idea that it’s THEIR money being pried out of their hands, rather than just another bill, there’d be a lot less whining. You want lights, you pay the electric company. You want a place to live, you pay the bank or landlord. You want food, you pay the grocery store. You want to live in a civilized society, you pay taxes. Get. Over. It.”


http://jezebel.com/5961056/comment-of-the-day-paying-for-a-more-civilized-society

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Reply Taxes are not *your* money-"You want to live in a civilized society, you pay taxes. Get. Over. It.” (Original post)
kpete Nov 2012 OP
Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #1
Kber Nov 2012 #2
slackmaster Nov 2012 #4
FredStembottom Nov 2012 #8
theKed Nov 2012 #12
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #3
Lurker Deluxe Nov 2012 #5
nichomachus Nov 2012 #6
GoneOffShore Nov 2012 #10
Lurker Deluxe Nov 2012 #13
valerief Nov 2012 #7
cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #9
frylock Nov 2012 #14
FredStembottom Nov 2012 #11
eridani Nov 2012 #15
brokechris Nov 2012 #16
Jamastiene Nov 2012 #17
Shankapotomus Nov 2012 #18

Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:25 AM

1. That's been my response to that particular bit of stupidity for years now.

"I don't like the government spending my tax dollars on"..."sorry but no, that's not YOUR money; that's an obligation incumbent upon you as a citizen; you're keeping up your end of the social contract by paying taxes, and in return the government provides things like roads, national defence, regulation of trade and commerce, funding of scientific research, and a million other things besides that you probably aren't even aware of but would miss if they were gone."

And anyway the whining about "my tax dollars" is usually followed by a reference to "those people"; this anti-tax, anti-government agenda is more often than not driven by racism, even if they won't say it out loud.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:25 AM

2. Maybe it helps to think of taxes like country club dues.

If you want the lawns tended and the courts maintained, you need to pay sufficient dues to do so.

If you don't like the club, the US has very open borders and you could always try to find another club that would accept you as a member.

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Response to Kber (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:35 AM

4. I see it as part of the terms of a giant contract

 

I work, I get paid, and in exchange for a variety of services from government part of my earnings are withheld.

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Response to Kber (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:26 PM

8. That's the one I use.

Taxes are your American greens fees.

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Response to Kber (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:15 PM

12. There is

an excellent book by a Canadian professor, Joseph Heath, called "Filthy Lucre: Economics for People that Hate Capitalism" that breaks down the most common misconceptions on both sides if the fence. The "club" fees are exactly how he describes taxation, and how they benefit people buying in en masse (ie. nationally).

If you can find a copy of this book, I strongly recommend it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:33 AM

3. Exactly ...

whenever I hear the "they're spending MY money" or "I don't want them spending MY money on ..." B.S., I ask them, "Where does your tax dollar end and mine begin? I pay taxes (probably far more than you, BTW) too."

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:48 AM

5. Well ... not really a good example

I get the main point, taxes need to be paid. But comparing it to your bills is not a good analogy.

Sure, I pay my electric bill because I need my lights. I also conserve electricity, and I also negotiate with my provider to get a better rate because I pay my bill on time and I am a long time customer.

Yea, I pay my mortage. I also made the decision on where to live as to support my standard of living, local taxes being a huge factor in that decision.

We all go to the grocery store and buy what we can to live, according to our desires and needs. We make an active decision.

Taxes ... nope, you pay them. Then the government decides how that money is spent. Usually poorly. Taxes should go up, on everyone ... but spending must be at least slowed.

In all aspects of my life I conserve where I can, the government is spending my/our money and should look for ways to conserve money as well.

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:20 PM

6. Well, then

get involved in "the government" and make sure the money is spent wisely.

"The government" is not some alien that descended from outer space and took over the country. It is us. If you don't get involved, you have no complaint.

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Response to nichomachus (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:29 PM

10. Very good reply.

People forget that they must be involved with the governing process and not just by voting.

Being informed, contacting their representatives - precinct, city, county, state, federal - and making noise when noise needs to be made. If not, that's when the "government" becomes those aliens who you speak of (though some of the politicians and civil servants I've encountered do seem to be from another planet; some of them from a completely different dimension and time period).

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Response to nichomachus (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:49 PM

13. And I am

Of coarse I am involved in government, people who are not generally do not follow political forums.

It still rings true though, government wastes alot of money, and corruption consumes a great deal of capital. Comparing paying taxes to buying electricity or groceries is a bad analogy for that reason, I can directly influence the practices of the people I spend that money with buy taking my business elsewhere.

I read the same type of message here on a regular basis, "I would have no trouble paying a lot more in taxes if I knew they were going to be spent wisely".

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:25 PM

7. I'm sure corporations see tax money as THEIR money. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:26 PM

9. Terrible argument

"You want food, you pay the grocery store. You want to live in a civilized society, you pay taxes."


No individual has the option to not pay the taxes, no matter what kind of society they want to live in.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:23 PM

14. you have an option to not pay for food?

really?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:32 PM

11. If your taxes go down your wages will too.

(Setting aside modern distortions to everything financial) the market still operates: if it takes X amount of wages to get someone in to do a job, it's actually X+tax liability that is doing the attracting.
X will simply fall to X- tax liability if taxes are eliminated (and all variations in between).
Taxes just make money circulate. Like blood in the body only circulating money does any good.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:15 AM

15. Don't agree. Taxes are indeed our money--spent collectively rather than individually n/t

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Response to eridani (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:19 AM

16. I agree

it is government's obligation to serve us by spending wisely.

I don't see why people would want to shy from the fact that the money our government has comes from us.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 05:29 AM

17. How do these anti-tax people think roads are built and maintained?

Do they really want to go that far? Sometimes, when I hear them spouting off and complaining about public schools and government assistance of any kind, I want so badly to be able to reach through the TV and ask them how do they think roads are maintained and do they want roads abolished too? No taxes? No roads. I think a lot of them would STFU with their communism claims if it was explained to them that the roads they use every day, along with many other government supplied services that they take for granted, are paid for with that tax money. Gah. They gripe my ass.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 06:30 AM

18. If we are all on our own

then we don't need a nation. We don't need to form large organized groups. Species developed in groups because there was a survival benefit to sticking together. One member's success benefitted the survival of the entire group. Species where individuals keep all their resources to themselves are called solitary species. Solitary species members have trouble sharing with other members of their species. They haven't evolved beyond the most basic forms of competition. They have poor group resource management. Taxes are a higher level of group resource management. It is a species saying to itself "We are not going to fight over resources anymore but recognize that some members will be more successful than others but also understand that this is a group effort and we pool our individual successes to benefit the group."

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