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Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:48 PM

 

Aren't the consumers ripped off 364 days a week, if there is a cheap price on Black Friday?

Why in this, the modern social media age is there more than one cheap price for anything?

Why is the old fashioned primative haggling needed anymore.

If a car can be sold for 10,000 but is normally 14,000, isn't the 4,000 extra a total ripoff?

Are we not as a society looking at things backward?

Isn't it like drugs? A drug in Africa is 10% the price of a drug here in America.

Shouldn't one be one?

Yes, monopolies are bad, because they raise the prices, however, what if everything were turned around and opposite-what if there was a proper price for all.
No underselling, no profit gauging, just the perfect 365 day price.FOR THE CONSUMER, for the worker, for the makers.(after all, the workers, and the makers all need the same goods)

wouldn't it be perfect?

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Reply Aren't the consumers ripped off 364 days a week, if there is a cheap price on Black Friday? (Original post)
graham4anything Nov 2012 OP
msongs Nov 2012 #1
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #2
Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #3
PoliticAverse Nov 2012 #4
Indpndnt Nov 2012 #5
graham4anything Nov 2012 #8
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #10
graham4anything Nov 2012 #15
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #25
graham4anything Nov 2012 #31
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #33
graham4anything Nov 2012 #34
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #35
graham4anything Nov 2012 #36
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #37
graham4anything Nov 2012 #38
graham4anything Nov 2012 #40
graham4anything Nov 2012 #41
virgogal Nov 2012 #9
Indpndnt Nov 2012 #14
HooptieWagon Nov 2012 #6
graham4anything Nov 2012 #7
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #11
graham4anything Nov 2012 #39
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #26
AlexSatan Nov 2012 #28
brooklynite Nov 2012 #12
ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2012 #13
MadrasT Nov 2012 #16
CBGLuthier Nov 2012 #17
graham4anything Nov 2012 #18
mythology Nov 2012 #21
graham4anything Nov 2012 #22
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #19
dembotoz Nov 2012 #20
kydo Nov 2012 #23
Marinedem Nov 2012 #24
randome Nov 2012 #27
slackmaster Nov 2012 #29
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #30
graham4anything Nov 2012 #32

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:50 PM

1. lower prices cut into stockholder payouts and management bonuses don't you know nt

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:50 PM

2. Things are worth what you can convince someone to pay for them

Haggling is an age old human endeavor and a lot of people enjoy it.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:53 PM

3. If you owned a store, you might feel differently.

Also...I don't want to live in Africa, even if drugs there are cheap.

I think it's a-ok for stores to compete for my business. It's always been this way with humans. We bartered with stuff before there was money.

Also, there's a reason for sales sometimes. At the end of a season, stores want to get rid of undesirable or overstocked inventory.

There are so many more important things in life to worry about than this. I try to buy things on sale, but if I can't manage it, I manage to buy what I need, anyway.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:54 PM

4. 'loss leaders' are not sustainable. n/t

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:59 PM

5. That reminds me of Walmart's TV advertising about "Rolling Back Prices to Save You Money!"

All that did is tell me they had been overcharging customers until they dropped the price -- and they expected applause for that.

Nope.

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Response to Indpndnt (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:08 PM

8. wrong analogy.wrong store. One should not roll back prices, prices should be perfect to start.

 

But by Walmart doing it, of course it leaves a bad taste in everyone who is liberal's mouth.
Therefore, Walmart thrives afterward, because no one else would do it that way.

It's like looking at the gun issue different than the Brady law, which is fundamentally flawed and unworkable because it overlooks the single biggest problem.

same thing with Walmart.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:25 PM

10. Wrong on all counts...

Wrong about the business models, Walmart or otherwise.

Wrong about guns and Brady

Wrong in your hero worship of the repuke Mayor of NYC

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:41 AM

15. Where is Mayor Mike mentioned in this thread? But since you did

 

Mayor Mike, who endorsed Obama, btw, is one of the best people to get things done.
Like how he has kept WalMart out of NYC proper though it gets harder and harder.And why you can still find little mom and pop pharmacies, and tool shops and individuality in the heart of the civilized world, NY NY one helleva town.Manhattan is.(shout out to Zabar's!)

And how he against all odds, put a walking oasis concrete beach, in the middle of Times Square and how the people love it. (Not to mention his quest for health care for all, and in lieu of the ability for a mayor to do that, has promoted the single greatest wellness program of any person in the history of mankind since Mayor Lindsay was in office.(no hyperbole here, just fact.)


I can understand if you are an NRA fan, why you would personally not like Mike.
Other than that though, it would be mind boggling.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 10:01 AM

25. Whoops, there it is...

Your idolization of a classic 1%er with strong fascist leanings...

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:51 PM

31. stereotyping people with money is as bad as anti-semitism and ageism and sexism

 

Especially if the person is Jewish.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #31)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:54 PM

33. You are the one stereotyping people

Your entire anti merchant thread reeks of it.

Bloomberg is a 1%er not due to money but due to his attitude about the little people and his willingness to ignore the will of the people to suit his agenda.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 08:48 PM

34. You are the one who backs the big #1 lobby group, Mr. NRA fan, not me.

 

No one needs a gun or a 48 ounce soda.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #34)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:08 PM

35. More defense of a leading 1%er

No one needs OWS or human rights either. Bloomberg is a solid 1 %er and you have him on a pedestal. Are you sure you are on the right board?

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:16 PM

36. He backed President Obama. And he is taking on the NRA, BOFFO!!! Mayor Mike

 

as for anarchists, I am for President Obama.
I do not like anarchy.

Glad that OWS finally got something to do, by helping the Hurricane Sandy victims.
Finally they have a goal, objective. Shame they didn't start with one.

but I am not a fan of people blocking the tunnels, left/right/center.

All that does is hurt the 99%(like the 99% who work on Wall Street).

and your hatred of Mayor Bloomberg, because he is the one who will defeat the #1 money pac group in the world, the NRA, is unhealthy.As is your love of the NRA.

and your defense of Zimmerman who shot an unarmed man in the proverbial back coward style, many miles away from Zimmy's home. I do not like anarchists nor vigillantes. Sorry

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:37 PM

37. More strawmen and lies

Glad to see you do not support OWS and think they are anarchists. Your true colors are starting to show.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:43 PM

38. You support the NRA and Zimmerman, nuff said. I support the lone protester in T-Square in China

 

millions of people work on Wall Street. Lumping everyone together is stereotyping.
Hating the rich is as bad as hating the Chinese.

You just hate Bloomberg irrationally because he is the great Equalizer against the NRA.
Bloomberg is the man in T-Square in China, stopping the tank that the NRA is.

btw-Nannies are good. It is the libertarians/tea parties that make fun of nannies.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:48 PM

40. You support Walmart because they are the #1 gun seller in the nation

 

even though they pay ZERO benefits that matter to any worker.

Bloomberg has stopped WalMart's endless attempts at coming to Manhattan, to save the mom and pops.

at least in NYC one can't smoke in restuarants and one cannot carry concealed weapons in a bar and say they need them because "it is their hobby'.
I don't pack my bowling ball in a restaurant, or my stamps in a bar.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:50 PM

41. the OWS should turn their attention to getting rid of guns from the streets(all guns).

 

thinking outside the box

would you still love the ows if they moved forward on that issue?

To you, it's just a soundbyte.

btw-the OWS has nothing to do with this topic, just another red herring.

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Response to Indpndnt (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:20 PM

9. For heaven's sake,retail stores have been having sales forever. Where

have you been?

Restaurants have early bird specials.

Massachusetts has a sales tax free day once a year.

Smart shoppers take advantage of this.

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Response to virgogal (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:46 PM

14. Who is talking about sales? Not me.

Those Walmart commercials had zero to do with sales. They were about lowering prices permanently.

Maybe you need to pay more attention to which post you are replying.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:00 PM

6. Not necessarily.

Large retailers plan sales months in advance. Placing a large order to manufacturer well in advance gets them a large discount. Ordinary monthly orders aren't discounted as much. And buying several months worth of merchandise at one time ties up too much money in inventory, plus requires storage space.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:04 PM

7. But who said anything about loss leaders? A perfect price does not have to be low or high.

 

Last edited Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:58 AM - Edit history (1)

that is the trouble with thinking static and Mitt Romney like

it is always linear and not out of the box

(and why do there have to be smears/slurs in answers? The point is not

if you owned a store
because how the hell do you know if I own a store or not?

Normally, as car sales always proove, there is a satisfactory price that is sold to insiders
and everything above it is ripping off the consumer to make an extra buck.

(isn't it the same as people complaining that Congress gets free health care and regular people don't? Wouldn't we all be better off with free health care incorporated into everyone's life?

Isn't it like Free shipping. You don't pay for shipping, but if one is in business, you pay the four bucks extra in price because no seller can afford free shipping for long and stay in business
It is all an illusion.

as John Lennon sang "and the world will live as one"
Imagine how beautiful it could be

and on good friday, remember Mr. Damour, who was trampled to death so vultures could save fifty bucks on plasma tvs, when the same tvs could be had for that price on any day if greed weren't involved.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:27 PM

11. Bookmarked

that is the trouble with thinking

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:45 PM

39. btw, wasn't it you or one of your buddies on the pro-NRA thread that raved against John Lennon?

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 10:11 AM

26. You are on a real streak of being incorrect. Congress does not get free healthcare.

They pay for it. They get a choice of plans, prices, etc that is much like the 'exchanges' in the ACA. But it is not free, not even close to free.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:24 AM

28. Using that logic

 

I guess your employer could say that he/she should only have to pay you the minimum you need to get by and everything you ask for above that is "ripping him off".

Personally, I just make a judgement on the item. If it is priced at what I am willing to pay for it, I buy it. If not, I don't. I don't sit there and try to calculate if the profit for the seller is acceptable before I decide to buy.

When you buy a used car from a private owner, to you check to see how much they paid for it to determine your acceptable price? What if if was a gift from grandparents or a prize in a radio promotion--does that mean you are willing to pay them far less than it is otherwise worth?

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:29 PM

12. It's not a ripoff if -I- want it...

...and I'm prepared to pay a premium rather than wait for another.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:39 PM

13. Merchants use ALL sorts of tricks to get your money.

One of them is creating a bunch of hype for certain toys and then intentionally under supplying them. Customers substitute with other toys and go back after Christmas and spend even more money the hyped toy.

I just read that example today in a book I'm reading Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. I highly recommend it. It explains techniques marketers and other unscrupulous people use to manipulate various psychological processes to get you to do buy stuff and do what they want.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 06:58 AM

16. No. n/t

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:59 AM

17. Perhaps a few business courses would help you to understand why this is

not a good idea and would never ever work. Oh well I used to dream of the big rock candy mountain until I ran a few businesses myself and learned the truth.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 08:06 AM

18. another ad hominem. Wonderful. Worthy of Mitt Romney himself.

 

Socialism is bestism.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 08:43 AM

21. That's not an ad hominem

If you want to see an ad hominem attack, please see the comment about worthy of Mitt Romney as an example.

A company like Apple is a great example of why not everything needs to be the same price. They aren't looking to compete on price with other computer and/or software companies. They look to compete on other vectors. It's been a rather successful business model for them.

Additionally to assume that there should only be one price ignores economies of scale. When a company has to make 1 of an item, it has to do more or less the same set up as if they were making 1 million of an item. So if they sell more of something, they can disperse the cost of set up, research, advertising etc among all of the items rather than in just one. So if you order extra, you can afford to sell the item at a cheaper cost. It's not proof that the company was ripping you off before, it's math.

Further some items are sold at a below cost price in order to bring people into the store to where they might buy other items that are listed at a (more) profitable price. One such example is the cost of the Amazon Kindle Fire or the Google Nexus. While I'm not positive those are both sold at below cost, they are trying to sell you one product in order to sell you others with a higher profit margin. In the case of Amazon they are selling the content for the device and in the case of Google, they are selling you ads.

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Response to mythology (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 08:59 AM

22. add federal subsidies to the mix and that takes out some of the above problems.

 

but you also can better the cheaper made items to equal the more expensive made items so everything is equal.

While I for one welcome the market of China, we can do things to insure fair trade practices and not cheap ripoffs, but it will take money and time.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 08:15 AM

19. Welcome to Capitalism.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 08:33 AM

20. the word is traffic

if you are in a business you need it

sooooo how do you do that

lots and lots of holiday money is spent on black friday

if you want as a store your share you have to invent the better mousetrap or have the better promotion

so you do your door busters and hope that the customer will buy other stuff too.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:00 AM

23. not when they have been conditioned to jump at sales

Yeah, I know the business reason for events like black friday, getting rid of inventory blah blah blah. My thing about that is why if the deals are so great on black friday do they get even better as the end of the year gets closer? Its a rhetorical question because the answer is two fold; One yes they are unloading extra inventory that they either carry and pay taxes (like cars dec 31 great day to buy a car) or sell cheaper and try to recoup the money they spent on inventory. Two, we are conditioned to react in a panic driven rage when we see sales.

JCP comes to mind. They have tried to just sell stuff at sale prices without having um a dare I say it "sale." The problem with JCP is I don't like there stuff right now.

I don't get wrapped up in the holiday shopping. I actually spend the same amount monthly no peak during the holidays if anything I spend less. It was hard when the kids were kids, but going in debt to have a tickle me elmo doll and the latest video game or new cool techie toys, thats dumb.

The holiday commercials are almost as bad as the political election ads if you ask me. Buy buy buy sale sale sale deal deal deal now now now don't miss out the prices will never be lower

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:07 AM

24. Well,

 

You could always open your own store and try out your theory.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 10:11 AM

27. Look what happened to JC Penney.

They marked everything down for a few months and took a beating in the stock market. It didn't work for them.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:27 AM

29. I don't see it that way at all. Consumers always have choices, every day of the year.

 

You aren't being forced to pay any particular price for anything in most situations. (Obviously there are exceptions for things like fuels which are sold by what might as well be monopolies.)

If a car can be sold for 10,000 but is normally 14,000, isn't the 4,000 extra a total ripoff?

No, it's just a mark-up that the seller can receive as a profit if there is someone willing to pay $14,000 for the car.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:00 PM

30. No

and the car isn't a good example anyway.

Sales prices are a function of the structure of retail pricing.

"No underselling, no profit gauging, just the perfect 365 day price.FOR THE CONSUMER, for the worker, for the makers.(after all, the workers, and the makers all need the same goods)" ? That would only work in the knowledge of certainty of how many would sell. In the absense of that knowledge costs are recovered across a percentage of goods sold with profit lying in the remaining stock only some of which continues to be sold at the price the market will bear and the rest cleared in sales events.

I assume you did actually know how "price" is defined. You did : didn't you ?

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:54 PM

32. Customer service is more important than being "cheapest".

 

After all, the average person knows nothing about a specific item anyhow.

Trust the seller and the customer comes back

And the buyer knows, something sold for a dollar that is worth ten dollars is not worth buying at one dollar.

If something is too low, something is wrong with it

If something sells too fast, the price is too low
If something does not sell, raise the price, not lower it, because the customer probably thinks it is a knockoff item

Moms and Pops are better than Walmarts and other big box stores.
Just people are given less choices by the box stores closing the moms and pops

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