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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:14 PM

Oh Hell... I'll DU It... Please... Welcome A New Contributing Member To DU... cer7711 !!!

That was more heat than light, yes? Insulting your fellow progressives with such venom and vitriol convinces no one of anything save that you are in a near-incoherent rage over lefties-more-left-than-you-are putting pressure on the administration to defend certain much-attacked social programs.

Let me try enumerating ten points, as civilly and courteously and cogently as I can:

1.) This president—whom I very much like and admire, by the way—has a history of uttering soaring populist/progressive rhetoric during campaigns and then governing from a center-right political perspective/stance.

2.) President Obama has proposed that a so-called “Grand Bargain” include $4 trillion in savings. That’s a ratio of $3 in spending cuts to $1 in tax increases
.
3.) If you let the Bush tax cuts expire for people making over $250,000, you already have $1 trillion in tax increases right there.

4.) President Obama has promised Corporate America a tax cut from 35% down to 28%, at the very time his administration is sounding the same-old, tired and discredited “Shock Doctrine” austerity rhetoric: “shared sacrifice” (when the past 30 years of wealth transfer to the richest 1% has been anything but); “reasonable compromise”; “bi-partisanship”; etc.

5.) You’ll notice that I keep citing “President Obama” directly. Not “vomit on the floor” or “some editorialist for CNBC” or ungrounded speculation and rumor-mongering but . . . “President Obama”. Because that’s who I’m citing as a primary source. President Obama.

6.) There is a definite mood and building consensus in Washington—both pre-election and post-election—that the “responsible and reasonable” thing to do will be to “tighten our belts” and pursue “fiscally responsible, deficit-reduction policies” that could result in actions such as the raising of the eligibility age for Medicare, Social Security, etc. True, nothing has been done yet—but reporter after politician after blogger after inside-the-Beltway witness has been talking about this grim, “belt-tightening” mood of consensus in Washington and communicating the fact of its existence to their various constituencies.

7.) Paul Krugman—though proven right time and time again on the economy and the various actions taken by this administration—still seems to get short-shrift from people who should know better. As he remarked to an interviewer recently: “I’m tried of being Cassandra; of being proved right after the fact. For once I’d like to be listened to before economic disaster strikes.” Paul Krugman regards with fear and alarm the very same outcomes you are ridiculing as preposterous and unthinkable. I hope, in this instance, that Krugman’s unease is proven unfounded and the “Wisdom and Insight of the Scootaloo” is proven right. Time will tell . . .

8.) It is fundamentally dishonest, unfair and hurtful to signal in advance of tough negotiations that reductions in spending might be made at the expense of the working poor and much-stressed middle class. Question: Why doesn’t President Obama make a clear and ringing statement to the effect that: “Since SS adds not one single dollar to our deficit, any talk of ‘SS reform’ is a non-starter.” Why not take it off the table before negotiations even begin? I’ll tell you why—I think you already know—because SS “reform” is very much on the table. This Democratic president may very well succeed to doing what no Republican has ever been able to accomplish: start to erode the cornerstone social policy achievement of FDR’s administration. It is this possible outcome—among others—that have caused social leftists like myself to raise the alarm.

9.) Like it or not, this president does have a four-year track record. His accomplishments are legion (too many to enumerate again here) but he ALSO has a record of center-right negotiating and expressed contempt and/or irritation and/or disengagement from his progressive/liberal base. (The examples I could cite in support of this stance are—like his accomplishments—too many to again enumerate here. If you’re as smart and informed as I think you are—and as fair-minded—you know very well what I mean.)

10.) So given all of this: the stakes at risk, President Obama’s past record of negotiating (I don’t think he’s a poor negotiator; I think he gets exactly what he wants: a center-right outcome); the necessity and urgency for liberals to remain engaged and put leftward-leaning pressure on this administration—why WOULDN’T progressives be up in arms over any hint of a sell-out or capitulation in advance of “Fiscal Cliff” talks?

I hope this missive—the first I’ve ever posted to Democratic Underground—causes you to rethink and re-examine some of the contempt and vitriol you dumped on the heads of hard-fighting progressives who hold a different opinion than you do.

PS. And no, I am not a “troll” or a “false concern care-bear” or a “lurker” or any of the other group-think, self-congratulatory/semi-paranoid in-group/out-group monikers some members here enjoy hurling at people who disagree with their stated opinions. I’m a working-class, 49-year-old, book-loving Chicago Democrat and political junkie who was so offended by your post that I was moved to write. For that, I thank you for getting me more directly involved in the discussion.


Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1814069

Responding to THIS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021813696

WELCOME !!!




22 replies, 2071 views

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Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Oh Hell... I'll DU It... Please... Welcome A New Contributing Member To DU... cer7711 !!! (Original post)
WillyT Nov 2012 OP
WillyT Nov 2012 #1
woo me with science Nov 2012 #2
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #3
WillyT Nov 2012 #4
HangOnKids Nov 2012 #6
Dragonfli Nov 2012 #9
HangOnKids Nov 2012 #10
sheshe2 Nov 2012 #8
ProSense Nov 2012 #5
Cha Nov 2012 #11
NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #14
Cha Nov 2012 #16
eridani Nov 2012 #18
Cha Nov 2012 #19
Sirveri Nov 2012 #20
ProSense Nov 2012 #21
Sirveri Nov 2012 #22
MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 #7
nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #12
grahamhgreen Nov 2012 #13
Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #15
DaniDubois Nov 2012 #17

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:26 PM

1. Kick !!!


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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:29 PM

2. Definitely worth its own OP.

DU is richer today. Welcome!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:42 PM

3. Excellent post and expressing the opinion of almost every Democrat I have ever met.

And this is the question so many have been asking or so long, and since we know the answer, the reason for the now growing coalition of Unions, Progressive Groups and SS Advocates because they have not yet hear that statement, so easy for people like Bernie Sanders to make, so difficult for this president:

Why doesn’t President Obama make a clear and ringing statement to the effect that: “Since SS adds not one single dollar to our deficit, any talk of ‘SS reform’ is a non-starter.”


But the truth is IF as the OP suggests, a Democrat is the one to finally open the door for Republicans to get their foot inside on SS, it will be disastrous for the Dem Party in 2014. For so many that would be the last and final straw.

But on the bright side, we did hear it from Tammy Baldwin today. Hopefully others will follow her and Bernie Sanders in telling the truth about SS. Four years is enough time for a Dem President to have made this clear. Maybe now that he has no need to worry about reelection and should be concerned about his legacy, he will finally do it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:05 AM

4. Agreed !!!




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Response to WillyT (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:12 AM

6. Hey Everyone Has Posts Hidden But Scootaloo Has 11

 

Not interested in anything he/she is peddling. Thanks for this rebuttal.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:19 AM

9. That was his name? I thought it was Scatologicaloo for some reason

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:24 AM

10. Very Funny

 

He/She should be tossed to the pizza oven.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:18 AM

8. It will be his legacy! n/t

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:09 AM

5. Welcome to DU, and

10.) So given all of this: the stakes at risk, President Obama’s past record of negotiating (I don’t think he’s a poor negotiator; I think he gets exactly what he wants: a center-right outcome); the necessity and urgency for liberals to remain engaged and put leftward-leaning pressure on this administration—why WOULDN’T progressives be up in arms over any hint of a sell-out or capitulation-in-advance of “Fiscal Cliff” talks? Isn't that our duty as informed citizenry of the Republic? To remain engaged in the political discussion and exert pressure BEFORE another in a long, long line of unfavorable outcomes occurs?

...as I said in the thread: It's impressive whenever someone presents a lenghty, vague argument just to support a flawed premise. At least it's impressive to those who want to believe it.

Yeah, "center right" outcomes like repealing DADT, rejecting DOMA and standing up for marriage equality, Wall Street reform, strengthening Medicare and adding benefits to the program, and these:

Obama Signs Children’s Health Insurance Bill

By ROBERT PEAR

WASHINGTON — The House gave final approval on Wednesday to a bill extending health insurance to millions of low-income children, and President Obama signed it this afternoon, in the first of what he hopes will be many steps to guarantee coverage for all Americans.

<...>

The roll call ended a two-year odyssey for the child health legislation, which President George W. Bush adamantly opposed on the ground it would lead to “government-run health care for every American.”

<...>

In a major change, the bill allows states to cover certain legal immigrants — namely, children under 21 and pregnant women — as well as citizens.

Until now, legal immigrants have generally been barred from Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program for five years after they enter the United States. States will now be able to cover those immigrants without the five-year delay.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/us/politics/05health.html


16 million: number of Americans who become eligible for Medicaid under the health care law
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002531684

Oh, and now this...

Health care reform is the law of the land: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021808119

This election feels different
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021769342


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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:18 AM

11. President Obama is "Center right" IS STUPID! Thanks ProSense..and I can't

stress Enough how you live up to your user name! Anyway, thanks for refuting the NONsense so brilliantly.

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Response to Cha (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 02:12 AM

14. "Center-right" is up there with "socialist" in terms of the dumbest terms used to describe him.

If we are predicting his future actions based on his past record, then I am very optimistic about the next four years.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 02:50 AM

16. Exactly, NYC Liberal. "Socialist" & "Center right" are two Bullshit Labels

from opposite ends of the spectrum. Where's the f****** proof?

It's so easy to sit back and slam pot shot labels on PBO..when he's out there doing all the work with his Team and those of us who have his back.

The "center right" Prez today nominated the first Black Gay Judge to Federal Judgeship..

President Obama today nominated William Thomas to a judgeship on the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, an appointment that, if confirmed, would make Thomas the first openly gay black man to be a life-tenured federal judge.

Thomas, currently a judge on a state court in Florida, was recommended for the federal nomination by the Presidential Appointments Project, coordinated by the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund, BuzzFeed reports.


http://www.advocate.com/politics/2012/11/14/obama-nominates-gay-black-man-federal-judgeship

Tweet from Obama today.. so "center right"..

Barack Obama‏@BarackObama

"I've got a mandate to help middle-class families and families that are working hard to get into the middle class." —President Obama"

This is definitely "center right"..

"Obama vows to take personal charge of climate change in second term"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014305922

That was just today.. these "center right" Accomplishments are from the last 4 years..

"We'll Keep This List Going. Here are 206 Obama Accomplishments, With Citations! He's Done Plenty!"

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what-has-obama-done-since-january-20-2009.html

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Response to Cha (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:57 AM

18. So a Democrat is just a Republican who is good on social issues?

I think not. The 1% don't give a shit one way or another about gay rights because it doesn't cost them any money. Unfortunately, they'd like to get their amoral sociopathic hands on Social Security and Medicare.

Not to say that the various social issues aren't important, but there has to be more.

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Response to eridani (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:04 PM

19. There is More but there's no help for people who won't open

their eyes.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:38 AM

20. Yes, we'll just ignore the drone strikes.

And the extension of the Patriot Act
and Bradley Manning
and the blind eye towards the occupy police brutality
and the medical marijuana crack downs
and his failure to purge the right wingers from important cabinet positions

But hey, he's got a (D) next to his name, so I guess we should all just sit down and shut up because it could have been so much worse. He won the election, he can't be re-elected, so can we actually get some serious push back from the left wing base now?

If he puts Social Security on the chopping block, I'm done. I've sat silently through enough, that is the straw that will make me pick up my ball and go home.

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Response to Sirveri (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:16 AM

21. Well,

"But hey, he's got a (D) next to his name"

...so did FDR and LBJ, and one brought us the Internment and the other expanded the Vietnam war.

Yes, it could have been much worse.

The "center right" label is absurd.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1822147

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Response to ProSense (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:33 PM

22. LBJ declared war on Poverty and FDR created Social Security, medicare, and won WW2

Obama hasn't done much other than pass a watered down health care reform bill.
Not that I entirely blame him, he's working with the most screwed up Congress ever elected so there wasn't much he could do there.

But would he actually have gone for single payer, he sure seemed quick to kick it to the curb.

I'm not blaming him for NDAA indefinite detention, even though he did sign it, I blame Congress for that. But I was really hoping for FDR 2.0 like his campaign rhetoric indicated, not 'Bush Light'. Is a center right label justified, well he hasn't been able to do much other than what appears to be center right, but a lot of that is the fault of the current GOP.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:16 AM

7. Welcome, Democrat!

Using facts and logic rather than insult and prevarications is gow we roll.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:20 AM

12. Welcome

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 02:11 AM

13. That's how my people feel... Or even worse!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 02:17 AM

15. Oh, hell, yeah.

I was rather put off by that OP, so I ignored it and didn't get involved. Thanks for posting this wonderful reply here. A big, big welcome, cer7711.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:14 AM

17. Welcome!

 

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