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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:26 PM

How Does the Democratic Party Get Back Middle to Lower Class Whites?

I think it is absolutely fabulous that the trends look very good for the Democratic Party with regard to latinos. However, the only thing keeping this a ball game for republicans is that they are able to manipulate, for whatever reason, white men into voting for them.

Let's face it, the Republican Party should have no voters except for the top 1%. Personally, as the hangover from the great victory wears off, I want to think about ways we can finish off the Republican Party in 2014. One of those ways would be to get back their key constituency.

Any ideas how the democrats attract lower to middle income white men???

93 replies, 5614 views

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Reply How Does the Democratic Party Get Back Middle to Lower Class Whites? (Original post)
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 OP
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #1
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #17
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #65
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #66
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #72
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #73
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #74
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #76
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #84
ieoeja Nov 2012 #81
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #85
Bake Nov 2012 #90
Kalidurga Nov 2012 #2
liberal N proud Nov 2012 #3
loyalsister Nov 2012 #7
JaneyVee Nov 2012 #50
DonViejo Nov 2012 #4
russspeakeasy Nov 2012 #13
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #18
JoePhilly Nov 2012 #5
RandySF Nov 2012 #6
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 #12
Chan790 Nov 2012 #20
Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2012 #39
Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2012 #38
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #86
CakeGrrl Nov 2012 #93
DURHAM D Nov 2012 #8
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 #14
DURHAM D Nov 2012 #24
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #42
Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #9
aletier_v Nov 2012 #10
billh58 Nov 2012 #11
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 #15
billh58 Nov 2012 #34
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #16
LeftInTX Nov 2012 #25
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #60
k2qb3 Nov 2012 #19
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #30
Sgent Nov 2012 #49
k2qb3 Nov 2012 #52
Spike89 Nov 2012 #87
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #21
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #67
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #69
billh58 Nov 2012 #88
Stinky The Clown Nov 2012 #22
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #26
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #23
SpartanDem Nov 2012 #27
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 #29
hockeynut57 Nov 2012 #28
reformist2 Nov 2012 #31
Withywindle Nov 2012 #58
Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2012 #32
dog_lovin_dem Nov 2012 #33
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 #41
ProSense Nov 2012 #35
Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2012 #36
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 #43
Hekate Nov 2012 #37
Withywindle Nov 2012 #57
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #61
marmar Nov 2012 #40
LakeErieLiberal Nov 2012 #44
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #70
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #47
pepperbear Nov 2012 #45
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #46
Raksha Nov 2012 #48
pampango Nov 2012 #63
Raksha Nov 2012 #64
pampango Nov 2012 #80
TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #51
xfundy Nov 2012 #53
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #71
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2012 #54
Live and Learn Nov 2012 #55
Raine Nov 2012 #56
Withywindle Nov 2012 #59
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #62
spanone Nov 2012 #68
99Forever Nov 2012 #75
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #77
MrDiaz Nov 2012 #78
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #79
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #82
exboyfil Nov 2012 #83
DainBramaged Nov 2012 #89
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #91
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #92

Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:28 PM

1. Pinch their cheeks and tell them they're the BEST widdle boys in the whole world!

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:44 PM

17. quit making remarks like that, would be my suggestion for how to win male voters.

 

because no one wants to vote for a party which treats them with absolute contempt -- and on the basis of a stereotype, to boot.

i call it hate speech, no less than similar remarks about women.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:51 PM

65. Look. The white male vote was all about guns, race, and taxes. Now what do YOU propose is a

way to persuade these Limbaugh-listeners, besides abandoning Democratic principles?

We're already going around saying "We hunt, TOO!", e.g.

But if you think the little bit I wrote is "hate speech" (and I fail to see any stereotype within my sentence), well, I am not in your easily-offended universe.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:52 PM

66. I don't even want to talk to you. If you can't see how bigoted & stereotyped that statement is,

 

nothing to be done for you.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:05 PM

72. What, pray, do you think Ryan's "urban" crack meant?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #72)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:07 PM

73. i know exactly what it meant. what does that have to do with your own bigoted remarks?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #73)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:10 PM

74. OMG,. Whom do you he was directing that to? BTW: You are referring to "white males" as a bloc.

Yeah, I'm bigoted, I and my entire white family hate whites.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #74)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:19 PM

76. i understand. and again i ask, what does that have to do with your own stereotyping?

 

do you think every white male answers ryan's call?

but democratic stereotyping of all white males as racist sexist pigs sure turns some men off the party. which i assume is what it's intended to do.

really, just leave me alone.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #74)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:55 PM

84. I think you touched a nerve!

Those working class white male did, in fact, vote for romney based on either: their love of guns (and mistaken fear that President Obama would take them, this time for sure); or based on Taxes (under the mistaken notion that tax cuts for the wealthy would somehow benefit them, this term for sure); or based on race.

FWIW ... My suggestion was going to be: "Ask them really, really nicely to please turn off rightwing radio/tv."

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:34 PM

81. No, it's about, "I would have hired you, but I have to hire a minority."


I know plenty of white men who have been told this. They leave the interview believing that some less qualified person got the job. Of course, nobody is going to hire someone who is unqualified for a job. Period. Instead those words mean:

1. I am making up an excuse for not hiring you, or

2. I would hire you instead of a minority, not because you are so much better, but because you are White. Unfortunately, I have already hired so many White people that I might take some heat if I don't get a little color in this place. So I will hire this other guy who is qualified, but whom I'd rather not hire because he's a {insert racial insult here}.


It's all about forcing them to give qualified minorities an equal chance. Not about giving good jobs to unqualified minorities. But the guy not getting the job feels better about himself convinced he was the superior job candidate and just got screwed. It also lets him put the blame on somebody else instead of examining his own faults. For an owner to feel the need to bring in non-White guys, he must already be really top heavy in White, male employees. So the guy mostly does hire White men, but you didn't make the cut.

Harsh, but them's the facts.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #81)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:58 PM

85. Might I suggest ...

I know plenty of white men who have been told this.


You know plenty of white men who have told you they have been told that.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:55 PM

90. First off, they're [i.e. we're] not all Limbaugh listeners.

So the point is that we've got to communicate to them two things (at least two things): 1. The GOP doesn't give a crap about their interests.
2. We Democrats DO represent their interests - working people, middle class, etc.

In other words, we've got to convince them it's OKAY TO BE A DEMOCRAT!

How do we do that? I don't know. I thought that's what this thread was for, brainstorming. Not making condescending remarks about an entire group of people, which you have now done twice in two posts.

Bake

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:30 PM

2. We have the women. The men will follow eventually.

But, if you really want to get the men put it into dollars and cents. There are charts out there on how Democrats are better for the economy.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/10/10/want-a-better-economy-history-says-vote-democrat/

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:31 PM

3. Only when those people realize they are not served by the GOP will they change.

There is nothing Democrats can do to win them back.

They are dillusional and cannot be talked to.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:34 PM

7. You're right

I think for the most part, they are blinded by social issues. And I think that even though they aren't explicit white supremacists, some may have a belief that there is a group of white men looking out for them specifically.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:38 PM

50. True, the fact is that this demographic tends to be where you find huge amounts of racists

These are the delusional people that believe they're poor because its the fault of other races.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:31 PM

4. By nominating only straight white men for office. nt

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Response to DonViejo (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:40 PM

13. Unfortunately, you are correct.

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:45 PM

18. no, he's not. but maybe the party (or its acolytes) could stop with the stereotyping and deni-

 

gration of 35%+ of the population.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:32 PM

5. Tell them that they are the most patriotic people on the planet.

And that by living on low wages with no benefits and remaining near the poverty level, they compete well with workers in the 3rd world, and that is what makes America exceptional.

That's what the GOP's been telling them and it seems to work.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:33 PM

6. Hillary 2016.

She can hold the coalition and add middle and working class whites.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:37 PM

12. I definitely agree with this.

Have met more than one rabid white ringer who claimed to support Hillary but had visceral hate for Obama (when in reality Hillary is probably more liberal than Obama lol).

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:46 PM

20. That's true but relative.

Saying Hillary is more liberal than Obama is like saying 4800 is closer to 0 than 4850 on a 10000-point scale. Neither is terribly liberal, they're both left-centrists who hold a few moderate-left positions.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

39. Hillary Clinton is NOT more liberal than Obama.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

38. ...because she is not black. Let's face it: they supported her because she's not black.

They didn't support Obama because he is.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:02 PM

86. Shhh ...

You'll upset those on this board that wish to believe that pointing out that some white males voted against President Obama (and other Democratic candidates) on the basis of race. That's down right racist stereotyping, on the left!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:46 PM

93. +1000

Hence the people, IMO, who were suddenly compelled to switch parties or - after a lifetime of voting Democratic - could not bring themselves to do so only when POTUS got the nomination in 2008. Modern-day Dixiecrats.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:34 PM

8. Oh brother.

It is the 21st century. They can either attach their cars to this rolling train or be left on the side rails. Their choice.

If they are stupid enough to allow themselves to be be sidelined and left behind that is their problem.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:40 PM

14. I understand what you mean

but I personally don't think that's the right way to approach it...

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:51 PM

24. I have no plans to approach them.

This is the same thing as some male arguing against equal rights for women or some white person arguing for segregation in the 21st. They are irrelevant relics from another time. I won't have a discussion with them.

They can self-educate and get on board or get left behind. I have zero patience for them.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:34 PM

42. I agree with you. I have dealt with those people, they won't change. nt

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:35 PM

9. Get rid of those darn minorities that have infiltrated our country?

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:35 PM

10. "More free stuff!"

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:36 PM

11. Only when we find

permanent cures for racism, misogyny, and religious bigotry. Those are the common traits of male Republicans.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:42 PM

15. I dunno

I think there are genuinely a lot of uneducated white males in the inner ring suburbs of Cleveland who aren't racist bigots but who have been duped into thinking that the Republican party is for them and that the Democratic party just takes their money and gives it to poor minorities who don't work and blah blah....Obviously that is a load of crap...a huge load of crap...and it's because of that stuff that a good pro-labor Congresswoman like Betty Sutton didn't get re-elected. And so, I think there needs to be a strategy in the democratic party to win back this demographic from the snake oil lies of Republicans.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:23 PM

34. How can a

"lot of uneducated white males in the inner ring suburbs of Cleveland who aren't racist bigots" be duped into voting for educated white racist bigots in the first place? It appears that you are implying that one must be "educated" in order to think for one's self, or vote for Democrats.

In order to actually believe "the snake oil lies of Republicans," these inner ring suburban white males must first be inclined to believe that minorities are depriving them of (fill in the blank) which makes them lean toward racism in the first place. It is not Republican lies which converted them to racism and bigotry -- it is their culture and history which they inherited at birth.

Not recognizing that it is actually the Republicans (and not Democrats) who are shipping their jobs overseas, and causing their mortgages to be upside down is not a result of a lack of education -- it is a result of aligning with those who use the existing ingrained hatred and racism of this demographic to incite them to vote against their own best interests.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:43 PM

16. Every time the Rape-publi-scum start in with one of their divisive social

 

wedge issues (racism, misogyny, homophobia, reproductive choice, ad infinitum), Dems at that level should repeat the following mantra:

"1% of the population controls 40% of the wealth and 10% of the population controls 80% of the wealth. Are you in the top 10%? If not, you should be voting Dem because we represent the bottom 90%."


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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:51 PM

25. I agree. It's about the 1%. Trickle down doesn't work

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:30 AM

60. +1

 

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:45 PM

19. Honest answer?

Drop the gun control stuff, particularly efforts to ban certain features, if you're not actually willing to go all the way and fight a war to ban them outright.

I really think the AWB is the rape exemption to abortion of the Democratic party, it sounds moderate and reasonable to people who don't really understand the issue very well, but it isn't workable, and can't be effective unless it goes to lengths most people would reject.(not to mention that keeping the issue alive is the biggest demand driver for assault weapons)

For a large number of people, particularly working class white men, perceived Democratic hostility to the 2nd amendment is determinative, even if they aren't single-issue voters.

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Response to k2qb3 (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:15 PM

30. Welcome to DU. I have spent some time thinking about an automatic weapons ban

and why people want automatic weapons. To give some reference, I don't see a reason for an automatic weapon unless a person is a soldier in the military. But, I am realistic, some people that are every day people want to shoot automatic weapons, so banning those types of guns create a political problem. I challenge anyone that like owning an automatic weapon to explain to me where they can shoot those weapons, other than a gun range or in deep unpopulated woods. Even in the woods, if a bullet travel and strike a person or home, the shooter will be arrested and likely convicted if caught.

To me the solution is to regulate where automatic weapons can be used and make those locations available to people that want to shoot automatic weapons. The federal government and states can set up shooting ranges and have them run by professional weapons experts as pseudo private entities, the ranges can have experts or shooting enthusiasts available to work with people that want help. People like me will avoid the installations, I don't own a gun and at the moment see no need for a gun. People that love shooting automatic weapons can patronize the afore mentioned gun ranges and shoot as long as they want to. People that like shooting automatic weapons but don't want to own one, can get maintained guns at the range to shoot.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:35 PM

49. Automatic weapons

have been effectively banned for almost 50 years (or longer). They cannot make any new ones, and the few that exist cost 10,000+. Finally, anyone who buys one must get a firearms license from the ATF which includes a full background check on the level of background checks for security clearance.

The problem was the "assault weapons ban" which bans weapons that look like automatic weapons and/or have things like bayonets. These guns are no different though in function than a hunting rifle -- and that's why a lot of rural whites especially see it as a major 2nd amendment issue.

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Response to Sgent (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:42 AM

52. Political capital.

I believe an AWB is really bad policy for a number of reasons.

The point though, is that if the Dems are going to screw this thing up, this is how they're going to do it. I think President Obama is way too smart to do that, but not everybody in the party is smart enough not to bring it up.

And if the party publicly dropped the issue, they'd be so strong they could get a lot of more important things done.

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Response to k2qb3 (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:37 PM

87. Agree, but think it is even broader

We (liberals) ARE the good guys, and we use our superior education, intelligence, and enlightened outlook to come up with policies and programs that benefit the poor and middle classes. We also can't help but snark and patronize those same populations (who, in our defense are pretty sensitive about their lack of education, intelligence, and exposure to enlightened thought). I'm being a tad snarky right here, but I'm also serious. You can't really laugh at the poor slob with the mullet and the "Morans!" sign, then profess to be mystified when he "votes against his best interests". He isn't. He's voting against the people who ridicule him and make him feel inferior. The republicans may be screwing him, but they make him feel good while they do it.

Just a note on the gun issue...guns are extremely loaded (sorry) emotionally, but with totally different connotations for the two "sides" in the gun debates. In small town/rural and suburban America, guns have been given to boys as a coming of age ritual for generations and generations. Generally, getting that first gun comes with praise for being responsible enough and mature enough to "be a man"--that is powerful stuff for a 12-13 year old boy. To these boys, guns are tools, symbols, and connections to their fathers and grandfathers, really their entire way of life.

In an urban setting (and on TV and movies) guns are overwhelmingly connected quite viscerally to violence and crime. You need a gun to commit a crime, or you need a gun to defend yourself from crime.

Of course there are yahoos in the country who shoot up roadsigns, play militia, or just go gun crazy. Not everyone in the city with guns is dirty Harry either. This is a simplified look, but if you don't share the same emotional connections, it is really hard to even understand each other.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:47 PM

21. the reason for the disaffection is clear in this thread. the party doesn't want their votes, and

 

views those people with disdain, stereotyping them as stupid racists, even though they're over 1/3 of the electorate and such stereotypes are clearly as bigoted as similar ones from racists.

kind of disgusting. kind of odd, actually, for a party which says it's a "big tent," able to tolerate dinos and the like.

really odd, almost like the dems & pubs made a deal to divide up the electorate. and have their respective attack dogs scripted to keep it divided.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #21)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:52 PM

67. You seem kind of odd, yourself, even being on DU with your disdain for the Democratic Party.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #67)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:56 PM

69. lol. right out of the playbook. yeah, it's all about *me*, how defective i am

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:24 PM

88. Actually, yeah

kinda...

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:47 PM

22. White men, generally speaking, are scared shitless of not being the top dogs anymore

The ones that can accept that will stay or become our side. Those who cannot, will not.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:56 PM

26. There was a day when a person that had just a HS education could build a prosperous

middle class life and end up owning lots of material assets. A few people like that make it today, but the majority get ground to mincemeat in the new economy. The people that get hammered are angry, but the point their anger at others instead of themselves. The result is that those angry people won't work to improve their job skills or take chances on starting a business, so they fester.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:48 PM

23. A good percentage of those people aren't racists.

But they do have incorrect views about who make up the democratic party. They see the majority of the democratic party as lazy non achievers. I have dealt with those people. I am sad to say, we will never get them back, they are too fucked up. We simply must out register and out vote them in national, state and local elections until they die off. There is some hope for their children, who are growing up with a worldview different from their parents.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:07 PM

27. We first we need to stop speading the myth they don't vote for us

Romney led Obama by a staggering 40 points in the South (62-22) Obama actually led Romney 44-38 in the Midwest (hello, auto industry rescue?), and the two candidates were nearly tied in the West and Northwest. White working-class Protestants favor Romney 2-1, while Catholics are evenly split. Likewise, Romney clobbers Obama with men, but the candidates are tied for the votes of women. And younger white working-class voters support Obama.
.....
The study finds, however, that a few of our political stereotypes are true: They are more likely than college-educated whites to say the government does too much for minorities and that discrimination against whites is as big a problem as discrimination against blacks, although, again, if you take out the South, the percentages drop. They are more likely than white college-educated voters to blame illegal immigration for their economic problems. They oppose same-sex marriage, but not overwhelmingly, 50 to 43 percent, and there again, there are huge differences by region, religion age and gender: Women, non-Southerners, Catholics and younger white working-class people favor same-sex marriage, while older Southern male Protestants oppose it.

Seven-in-ten (70 percent) white working-class Americans believe the economic system in this country unfairly favors the wealthy, and a majority (53 percent) say that one of the biggest problems in this country is that we donít give everyone an equal chance in life. Over 6-in-10 (62 percent) white working-class Americans favor raising the tax rate on Americans with household incomes of over $1 million per year.

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/20/beyond_guns_and_god/


We are competitive for the votes of these people outside of the South and they largely agree with Democratic message

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Response to SpartanDem (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:14 PM

29. I agree...

But, to me there's no reason why we couldn't or shouldn't have as large of a lead with them as other demographics. I'm still lamenting Betty Sutton's loss as I worked for her campaign and it was this demographic that cost us. I agree that maybe I'm exaggerating in saying "they don't vote for us" etc. but we can do better is what I'm saying.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:14 PM

28. free mullet trims from cost cutters and a voucher for 50 free rounds of ammo nt

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:16 PM

31. It's really only Southern white men. Everywhere else white men are almost 50/50.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:21 AM

58. No, it's mostly RURAL white men, across the board.

Obama lost Nebraska and Montana by a MUCH greater margin then, say, North Carolina.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:21 PM

32. We're talking primarily rural and small town voters....

The first thing to do is leave gun control alone. Prosecute people who commit gun crimes, but otherwise leave things as they are.

The next thing they can do is make sure that Congress passes solid farm legislation -- solid defined as favoring small and mid-sized family farms over "Agriculture Incorporated" mega-farms.

Whenever practical, leave local issues to local governments. I'm not saying the local governments should be allowed to ignore federal laws, mind you, but give them some flexibility in how they respond to and comply with federal requirements.

Just a few random thoughts.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:23 PM

33. Everyone I know who votes

democratic is middle to lower class and white. Many of them are male. The common thread running through these voters is that they are not Fox watchers, nor do they listen to talk radio.
If we could find some way to rid ourselves of these types of media, we'd have the solution to our problem.
Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

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Response to dog_lovin_dem (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:32 PM

41. This is a good point...

Some kind of fairness doctrine...

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:25 PM

35. The white vote in every election since 1972

2012 Obama-39%
2008 Obama-43%
2004 Kerry-41%
2000- Gore-42%
1996 Clinton-43%
1992 Clinton-39%
1988 Dukakis-40%
1984 Mondale-35%
1976 Carter-47%
1972 McGovern-31%

The untold truth behind the GOP election meltdown
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021796498

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:26 PM

36. By convincing White America that the Democratic Party is NOT about taking something that they

believe belongs to them and giving it to blacks, Hispanics and other minorities, women or LGBT.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:36 PM

43. I agree with this...but what might some strategies be??

For instance, the auto-bailout shows that these folks actually support activist big government industrial policy...should show that's the type of "big government" we support....that will support full employment, etc.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:27 PM

37. Drop condescension. Read "Born to Fight" by Jim Webb.

Both of those would be a good start.

Hekate

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Response to Hekate (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:19 AM

57. Good book, I agree!

and yet, Webb retired (Thankfully, Kaine is filling his shoes, not "Macaca").

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Response to Hekate (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:31 AM

61. +1

 

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:31 PM

40. Perhaps the real answer is to stop obsessing about that voting block.....


....... This election proved that Democrats can win without focusing on them, and the diversification of America will be more pronounced with each election. If the Bush years couldn't help people see the light, I don't know what will.


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Response to marmar (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:38 PM

44. I don't think it's "obsessing"

to try to craft a message in a way that builds rapport...you know, different strokes for different folks? We're the big tent party after all...

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:01 PM

70. So what is it you suggest to change, that white men now don't care for? Do they hate choice for

women's health?
Do they hate Obamacare?
Do they hate the idea of higher taxes on the rich? Do they hate immigrants, black Americans, those whom Romney and Ryan call "gift recipients" and "urban"?
Do they think we should be fighting in Iraq? Iran? Syria? VietNam still?

Just what Democratic plan, promise, proposal, or program do you think white American men do not care for?
Which do you think the Democratic Party ought to compromise on, to "woo" and "lure" these men?

These voters chose the bigots, the liars, the greed-heads, Romney-Ryan.

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Response to marmar (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:08 PM

47. I agree with you. Going after working class White males doesn't have much upside.

The problem with that group is that as a group, working class white men have barriers that make them difficult to bring over to work with us. The majority of that group work hard and are responsible. The problem is that they have been led to believe that no one else works hard. They don't like people that are better educated and better off, but for some treason they turn their anger against people that are struggling.

What we should continue to do is attract educated Whites, male and female, that group will make up the largest amount of democratic party support for a long time. Our party should attract Asians, an up and coming highly educated group that in addition, has many economic strata that range from rich to poor. Our party should attract Hispanics, a diverse group that range from wealthy people to working people. Our party should attract Blacks, also a diverse group of many economic strata that range from rich to poor. By expanding that coalition, we will continue to win elections and make america a more inclusive, even more prosperous country.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:02 PM

45. By doing what they said they were going to do to get elected, and letting them know it.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:08 PM

46. single-payer healthcare, and treat capital gains as ordinary income.

 

for starters.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:27 PM

48. They could run a real progressive who means what he or she says and follows through,

not another Third Way fake liberal who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. I mean...did FDR have any problem getting working-class white males to support him?

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Response to Raksha (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:59 AM

63. So whites will only vote for a 'real' progressive while minorities and women will vote for a 'fake'

one? I suppose we Democrats are lucky that minorities and women cannot tell a fake from a real progressive.

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Response to pampango (Reply #63)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:53 PM

64. When did I say that or even suggest it?

My point was that you appeal to white male blue-collar voters the same way you appeal to minorities and women, i.e. by running a real progressive (aka a New Deal Democrat) for President.

Sure, some of those blue-collar males may still be prejudiced against minorities and gays and have regressive attitudes about women. But Democrats can never win by playing on those prejudices and deliberately inflaming them. This last election proved that even Republicans can't win that way.

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Response to Raksha (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:24 PM

80. Obama won large majorities of the minority and women vote without being a 'real' progressive?

You recommend that we run a 'real' progressive in order to win the white blue-collar vote. It seems that Obama was a "real progressive" (a 'new Deal Democrat') as far as minority and female voters were concerned, but not white blue-collar voters. Do the latter have a higher standard of "progressivism" that Obama failed to meet?

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:39 AM

51. I bet consistently standing for things would go a long way.

Consistently standing for the right things would probably do better but if not it would still be right.

Focus on working class economics and maybe layoff the screw your grunt job, take out a loan, go to college, and get on the rat race you see the kids on with a mortgage.

Burst bubbles by calling lies lies under the spotlight. Some common misconceptions should have been killed dead years ago.

Quit with the gun control stuff.

Of course you will still have your fundies, tax avoiders, assorted bigots, rape is a gift from God mouth breathers but there is a strong governing majority if we put dollars in worker's pockets and get off the globalism and gun control.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:58 AM

53. Many of them have been brainwashed by Fox Noise.

If both, or hopefully, ALL parties, would speak to adults like adults, without trying to enforce their prejudices, helping them see how "other" people are harmless and just want to live their lives, like everyone else, that would be a great start.

Unfortunately, though, there's tons to be made in the hate and religion industries (same thing) and they've proven that over centuries.

Perhaps if there's infinite transparency in gov't (yeah, right), people could really see how gov't money is spent and realize how much is being paid to pigs who exist only to screw over the people.

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Response to xfundy (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:03 PM

71. Since FOX isn't about to change (& you don't hear ROMNEY re-assessing, do you?), then, ipso facto,

those men are LOST TO US.

Frankly, they have been convinced the Democratic Party isn't for manly masculine men.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:23 AM

54. Give them something that they can't ignore and that will benefit them and/or people they know

For example, lowering eligibility for Medicare by five years every year would help a lot of working class guys who can't afford health insurance otherwise. It would also strengthen Medicare because it would add younger, healthier people to the pool who would still be paying premiums.

Low-interest refinancing of mortgage and student debt.

Infrastructure projects that put the long-term employed to work building useful things, put money in their pockets, and get them spending.

Do not miss opportunities to help people in trouble! (This is the HUGE mistake that the Dems made during the farm crisis of the early 1980s. They had Congress at the time, and if Reagan had vetoed their efforts--such as low-interest refinancing--then they could have, pardon the expression, made hay out of his refusal.)

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:28 AM

55. Education, including critical thinking skills? nt

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:44 AM

56. Make a pitch for them, ask for their vote. Voters often know when they aren't needed or wanted. nt

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:27 AM

59. Region type is EVERYTHING.

The problem is with RURAL and SUBURBAN white men. RURAL and SUBURBAN white men have issues with Democrats, whether they're in Idaho or Mississippi or upstate NY (you don't notice it so much in the latter because NYC steamrolls the state's electoral votes reliably--but if you actually talk to rural white men in upstate NY, they don't vote much differently than rural white men in West Virginia).

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:41 AM

62. Obama needs to continue to do what he did in Ohio

Supporting manufacturing jobs for middle to lower class white men is what got their vote in Ohio and that is what will get their vote in other states.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:55 PM

68. wake up, they just elected the President to a second term...but you knew that i suspect.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:14 PM

75. How about a whole lot less...

... Republican Lite and a whole bunch more FDR Democratic spine, for starters?

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:20 PM

77. Pursue economic policies that are in the best interests of the middle and lower class

That's it, really. No need to lob the identity politics ball around. Offer a real alternative to Tricklenomics, and they'll jump aboard just like any other rational person. Those who still refuse to join in with the "darkies," well we didn't want them anyway, so no loss.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:21 PM

78. well

 

we could start by not calling every white man or woman who doesn't 100% agree with everything Obama has done a racist. I know everyone doesn't do it but it seems like the last 4 years there have been alot more of that than ever before, and I think that, that has something to do with it.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:21 PM

79. Run someone who's white and vaguely homophobic/misogynistic. nt

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:35 PM

82. It is not rocket science to figure out this 'white males' problem is in part regional.

Romney led by 40 points among southern working-class whites, the president actually led by eight points among Midwestern working-class whites. So it is not all that accurate to do the 'working class whites' routine. Oregon is pretty damn white and working class, went for Obama 4 times. How can that be if we do not attract such voters? Answer: we do attract such voters, just not in the South, and that is no great surprise.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:41 PM

83. I will try to characterize for you my office mates

Except for one very conservative Latino male, these are all "white" males from their mid 20s to their mid 50s. Except for me in this group of about 15, they are all anti-Obama (some rabidly so). Many are Libertarian and states rights advocates. Many get their entire news content from Fox News. Most are into guns some very much so.

1. They find the ACA to be totally unacceptable. They view it, like Romney as a "gift", and they feel health insurance should be earned and given to people.

2. They want to opt out of anything that smacks of socialist security such as social security, welfare, unemployment, etc. They are alarmed at the number of individuals that take a government check, and feel that number is why Obama won this election. Pretty soon they feel that the moochers will take everything from those who work.

3. They have bought Benghazi hook, line, and sinker with no question. Many were as aggressively for the invasion of Iraq at the time.

4. These are not dumb indviduals, all have engineering degrees, and several have Masters degrees in Engineering and some MBAs.

5. They are alarmed by the debt and the moves of the Federal Reserve to pump up the economy. Many would want to return to the gold standard.

6. They are worried that the ACA will lead to our company dropping health insurance (while they also complain about our health insurance). I have tried to point out that the market forces have not changed - typically engineers are going to be offered health insurance irrespective of ACA.

7. They really do not want to pay anymore in taxes. Income in our state is taxed at a 9% over about $60K, and at 8% at $40 to $60K. Real estate taxes are high. We also have a 7% sales tax.

8. They are of course birthers but I have not heard so much about that lately.

9. They all have the anecdotes about the welfare recipient turning the safety net into a hammock.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:28 PM

89. fREE BEER AND AMMO

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:41 PM

91. In the end the only thing you can do is stand on your principles and do a good job at explaining our

views.

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Response to LakeErieLiberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:43 PM

92. By doing things that will, you know, help them.

 

And then by making sure they know who it was that did it.

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