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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:55 AM

Why the Patraeus affair is important...

















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Reply Why the Patraeus affair is important... (Original post)
cynatnite Nov 2012 OP
Anthony McCarthy Nov 2012 #1
cynatnite Nov 2012 #3
Anthony McCarthy Nov 2012 #6
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #7
cynatnite Nov 2012 #10
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #21
Whisp Nov 2012 #26
oldbanjo Nov 2012 #2
cynatnite Nov 2012 #4
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #5
cynatnite Nov 2012 #8
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #9
cynatnite Nov 2012 #12
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #14
cynatnite Nov 2012 #15
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #17
cynatnite Nov 2012 #19
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #20
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #29
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #30
quinnox Nov 2012 #11
Iggo Nov 2012 #13
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #16
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #18
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #22
avebury Nov 2012 #23
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #25
ladjf Nov 2012 #24
riverwalker Nov 2012 #27
anobserver2 Nov 2012 #28

Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:02 AM

1. I thought so at first but

 

the more that is revealed about Petraeus and Allen, the more important it seems. If those generals are so out of touch and inhabiting a life that seems more like something you'd see on a sleazy reality show, the more dangerous it is to let them command the most powerful military in the history of the world.

Why the hell didn't our free press out this situation before now? Some of them were friends with these people, they must have seen something. Instead of informing us of a danger to democracy and peace, they've turned Petraeus into a proto-Ceasar figure. The corporate media seem to be like groupies hankering after men in uniform. There's a huge difference between a sympathetic view of relatively powerless common soldiers and giving a continual tongue bath to four star generals.

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Response to Anthony McCarthy (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:09 AM

3. He cheated on his wife...not our business.

This is nothing but tabloid television because of the sex.

People follow the sex.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:19 AM

6. Count me as among those who figure military men

 

committing adultery doesn't count as news.

It's the other stuff, being involved with clear nut cases while they're supposed to be running wars that is extremely important. Not to mention the FBI and CIA's roles in this.

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Response to Anthony McCarthy (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:21 AM

7. Well, it counts as a crime under military law

And so, that would in fact be news, if the person so high up disregarded such military law and went ahead recklessly anyway.

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Response to Anthony McCarthy (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:25 AM

10. What other stuff?

There isn't anything else other than the affair. Of course, according to the UCMJ an affair is a punishable offense. I've seen high ranking NCO's lose their commissions over it. This doesn't make it a news-worthy event.

The only thing I've seen is that the FBI may have been aware because of someone telling a friend who worked at the FBI about some emails.

I'm not seeing anything scandal worthy at all, but sex is not something I see as being worth our time or energy.

I have no doubt there will be plenty of people following the sex. It's a big seller for corporate media.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:59 AM

21. Also - since you like facts

Maybe you can answer this question I asked on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021814192

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:17 AM

26. Paula's speech at Denver about CIA having prisoners in Libya...

now THAT is everyone's business.

I don't understand why this is a nothing.
The sex thing is boring and inconsequential - some of the other stuff is certainly not.

So far I haven't seen any of the Yapping Class on tv touch this one.

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:05 AM

2. Power and money control the press.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:09 AM

4. Right now it's the sex controlling the press. n/t

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:16 AM

5. We don't even know if they had an affair yet -

Until Paula Broadwell publicly admits it, I am not willing to believe there was actually an affair.
And if there was not, or if she denies it, then, I think something else, that was in fact very important, is fact being covered up,
as her father has already publicly alleged.

I think what is most interesting right now is how the boss of Patraeus got Patraeus to resign when then
general clearly thought the alleged affair could be swept under the rug and forgotten (and he could continue as CIA Director).

Some news reports claimed his boss said to Patraeus he should resign now "before the jackels get him" or some such thing (before the Dems oust him).

Because what the boss, Clapper or something, really was most concerned with, according to news reports I read,
was his own position -- and how it might appear or be interpreted if it ever was disclosed that he, Clapper, had
information on Patraeus about an affair -- to be reminiscent of what J Edgar Hoover did, in getting dirt on
people.

And Clapper did not want to appear that he Clapper was doing that. So he frightened Patraeus is what it
seems to me, by making Patraeus think this was Patraeus' last chance to do what Patraeus could publicly
claim was "the honorable" thing to do (resign) before being outed by the political party Ptraeus was not a member of.

And, that way: Clapper could dispose of this knowledge of the affair because in resigning, Patraeus made it a public matter.
No one can now ever accuse Clapper of keeping dirt on people as J. Edgar Hoover did.

In short, it is always about people wanting to keep their positions.

The news reports and talking heads on tv chatting about should he or should he not have resigned over an affair
have it all wrong.

the reason Patraeus resigned is not because of an alleged affair he ended four months ago. but rather because
his boss did not want to be the keeper of this information of an affair -- and the only other place to put it was out in public.

Clapper was clever to give Patraeus the "choice" of honor verses being potentially outed, and nudging Patraeus to go the
"honorable" route, which benefitted Clapper (who is no longer the keeper of this info).

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:21 AM

8. Patraeus admitted the affair when he resigned...

All I'm saying here is that people follow the sex. It's even more salacious when a powerful man like Patraeus is brought down by an affair.

This is the timeless rule of media: Sex sells.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:24 AM

9. Patraeus "admitting" affair means nothing to me unless Broadwell confirms it too

The admission by Patraeus about an affair could certainly be a cover to enable his speedy exit after something else was going on - like holding prisoners illegally
in Bengazi, if that is in fact what Patraeus was doing, in violation of President Obama's executive order.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:26 AM

12. I don't do conspiracies...I do facts. n/t

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:28 AM

14. Exactly - and what facts do you have from Paula Broadwell?

So far there is nothing but silence on her end. What if she has a whole different set of facts? We just don't know yet.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:30 AM

15. Fact: Patraeus resigned because of affair which he admitted....

Anything else is speculation and conspiracy which has zero facts.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:33 AM

17. Sometimes men claim affairs when there was no affair

I would like to hear what Paula Broadwell has to say first. If she agrees she had an affair, then OK.
But, men lie, for various reasons, about having affairs. If and when she agrees, then, I'll believe it. Not before, just
because one guy says it.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:39 AM

19. You're saying that he's lying about something that cost him his job?

You think a married man lied that he had an affair?

Okie dokie. Whatever works for you.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:46 AM

20. Of course the Director of the CIA could lie about anything!

What if this guy Patraeus DID hide prisoners at Bengazi? Do you think he really wants to hang around in his job after the RE-election of President Obama? I would say NO. I would guess he might now want a speedy exit. How to exit? Claim a personal problem! An affair! You're out! No need to testify! No need to worry about being discovered that you committed a crime because now, you need "time" to "put your personal life back together" which is exactly what Patraeus is now claiming. He's "unavailable" to testify promptly, he claims, due to the fallout from his "affair." He has big problems at home now, he claims, due to this "affair."


Gee, good thing he had this affair to consume his time and energy and give him a reason to exit! (If he did committ a crime like hiding prisoners at Bengazi.)

Of course he could lie about having an affair. There is benefit after benefit for creating such a lie - a need to resign, trouble at home so can't testify now, etc etc.

Of course if it is possible he lied about an affair. How could anyone be so gullible to think it must be true if only one of this pair of lovers says it's true? Had Paula Broadwell immediately issued a public statement also saying they had an affair, then, I would believe it. And she still might. Or, she might not.

I will withhold any final conclusion on what is happening because no one really knows anything yet.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:20 AM

29. The biggest benefit is this one

The biggest benefit to lie about an affair is this one: anything the woman later says, about any crimes you committed, can be tossed aside as the rumblings of a disgruntled "ex-lover" -- much the way the valid complaints of some are tossed aside as not true because the person making the complaint is a disgruntled "ex-employee."

So, if Paula Broadwell were to ever come out publicly and say there was no affair with Patraeus, but there were illegal things going on that she now realizes he had to know about, and the proof is the classified docs she obtained and placed on her computer, or something to that effect showing prisoners in Bengazhi were held there, or whatever, I would tend to believe her, and not Patraeus.

He would say ignore and dismiss her complaints; after all, they had an "affair" -- but again, I am not so sure.

And he could have provided her access to use her in an "affair" cover story someday if he felt he ever needed such a cover story. Because I am reading how it was his idea to give her all this access, and how publishers she then contacted thought it was a big red flag that she, a first-time writer, had such access (and thus, decided to pass on her book proposal. A co-writer had to be called in to write the book with her.

SO, in short, yes, I think it possible he is telling lies about everything; wait and see what Paula Broadwell says.

Re her experiences with publishers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/books/petraeus-biography-underscores-ethics-questions-for-authors.html?ref=books&_r=0


The Quandary for Biographers: Get Up Close, but How Personal?

By LESLIE KAUFMAN
Published: November 13, 2012

Scott Moyers, who is in charge of Ms. Broadwell’s book at Penguin Press, has turned down many requests for an interview on the subject. But Vernon Loeb, an editor at The Washington Post who was Ms. Broadwell’s co-author for “All In,” wrote in an article published on Tuesday in The Post that it was clear that Penguin was paying for the unusual access, and that neither he nor Mr. Moyers was inclined to to press too closely on why Ms. Broadwell had it. ...

...The question that publishers are grappling with now is whether they have a responsibility to scrutinize more closely the reasons behind the special access. Publishers who had seen the manuscript when it was being shopped around said that there were certainly plenty of red flags.


One other point that comes to my mind is this: Had publishers pressed Paula Broadwell to explain WHY she has such special access --
and had the reason actually been because Patraeus was using her for a potential "affair" cover story he may someday need -- Paula
Broadwell likely would not have known nor suspected this, and would not have been able to honestly say why she had such special access.

She may have mistakenly and innocently thought: Well, I am a decent person seeking interesting information for my studies and he is providing it; what
else do you need to know? (Because: there really is NO affair to reveal.)

It is remarkable to me how some people will believe whatever some guy says. It would not surprise me in the least if someday
Paula Broadwell comes out and claims there was no affair. And that she is telling the truth.

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Response to anobserver2 (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:24 AM

30. In short - a bogus affair may be a way to discredit Paula Broadwell

And if so, then: you would perhaps find out what is being covered up by Patraeus, former CIA Director.

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:26 AM

11. I have been furiously hiding every dang thread having to do with anything Petrateus

 

related. I don't give a fig about this whole thing, it bores me like watching paint dry.

It's a bit of work to "X" all these threads, they pop up constantly, this topic is really popular right now. I feel the same way you do about it >

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:28 AM

13. It's important because it keeps the recent election off the front page.

Who is that important to?

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Response to Iggo (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:31 AM

16. True, and, unfortunate

That's true, and unfortunate for Obama. The more the Republicans talked about this election, the worse they looked. The "poopy head" comment cited by Grover Norquist as the turning point from the election was surreal.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:37 AM

18. It's also important because it involves the Director the CIA

And such a person could be subjected to blackmail as a result of concealing something like an affair. So, it IS an important story on that level. Such a breach for national security IS important (if the alleged affair turns out to have happened and a potential brecah existed). Had he not been head of the CIA, I might agree this is much ado over nothing. But, since he is CIA Director, it is something, whatever it is.

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:03 AM

22. Heh

I can't seem to work up a bunch of interest in it either.

Of course I did click open this thread...

Whew. I thought I might have to start caring

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:09 AM

23. I thought I saw something online

that the FBI did find some classified stuff in Broadwell's home. If that is true that does become an issue. She may have had security clearance but the manner in which any classified data was maintained in her home is relevant, particularly if it could be accessed by someone without clearance.

Edited to add link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/patraeus-scandal-paula-broadwell-suspected-stealing-classified-documents/story?id=17714560#.UKOmomdm1n8

Paula Broadwell, the author who allegedly had an affair with former CIA Director David Petraeus, is suspected of storing significant amounts of military documents, including classified material, at her home, potentially in violation of federal law.

A source familiar with case told ABC News that Broadwell admitted to the FBI she took the documents from secure government buildings. The government demanded that they all be given back, and when federal agents descended on her North Carolina home on Monday night it was a pre-arranged meeting.

===

The FBI found classified material on a computer voluntarily handed over by Broadwell earlier in the investigation. Prosecutors will now have to determine how important the classified material is before making a final decision. Authorities could decide to seek disciplinary action against her rather than pursue charges.

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Response to avebury (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:12 AM

25. I agree

I agree, and I was just reading an article about that in the Washington Post online.

I also find it very weird how the people involved in this matter on the outskirts have such backgrounds
as described here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021812982

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:12 AM

24. It's educational for Americans to see that many prominant leaders didn't rise to their

current levels by virtue of their IQ. nt

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Response to cynatnite (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:27 AM

27. important to me

I guess I always knew that top military brass hob nob and socialize with defense contractors, and profiteers of war, while our sons are bleeding, but never has it been so in- your- face. What is obscene is not the sex, who the hell cares. What is profoundly disgusting is why we went to war, and this whole Petraeus mess is the perfect symbolism of it's obscenity.
We went to war so neocons could profit. So Grayson Wolfe could buy mansions, and Jill Kelley could wear Chanel and drive a BMW. So 4 Star Generals could intervene and write letters in a sluts custody battle, while soldiers are fighting to get VA benefits and a prosthetic leg. There will never be justice for what Bush and his cadre have done, but if this Petraeus mess sheds some light on what these rats are all about, then keep shining the light and watch the fucking roaches run.

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:03 AM

28. It's an eye-opener

That's for sure. I had no idea how much partying is done by those in the upper positions in the military. Here I thought they do the most work; it is looking like they do the least. Plenty of time for affairs, parties, big money, big houses, etc. Kind of a big slap in the face to those getting their legs and arms blown off in combat.

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