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Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:10 AM

 

If I've heard it once,

I've heard it a thousand times from our side. All the red state Democrats point to the prevalance of rightwing talk radio as a key factor in brain-washing their people. There simply are no alternative voices in the southern and midwestern red states. Day and night, they can find Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, or Ingraham on any AM scan of their radio. Nothing else.

Why is that? Do we not have any media owners who would invest in a national syndicated radio network? Sure, you can pick up progressive talk on XM or internet streaming. But that doesn't equivocate to providing rural and average people with at least one plain ordinary AM nationwide channel like the righties have. We desperately need something like Radio Free Europe in the red states to offset the nonstop rightwing BS that this section of the population hears.

Who funds these righties? Can't we get sponsors for a national network the same as they do?

49 replies, 2921 views

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Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply If I've heard it once, (Original post)
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 OP
WCGreen Nov 2012 #1
defacto7 Nov 2012 #3
WCGreen Nov 2012 #13
kag Nov 2012 #18
WCGreen Nov 2012 #25
defacto7 Nov 2012 #36
WCGreen Nov 2012 #37
defacto7 Nov 2012 #38
Live and Learn Nov 2012 #7
pacalo Nov 2012 #20
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #34
pacalo Nov 2012 #49
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #8
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #9
WCGreen Nov 2012 #14
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #16
defacto7 Nov 2012 #39
jamesatemple Nov 2012 #29
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #35
defacto7 Nov 2012 #41
me b zola Nov 2012 #40
defacto7 Nov 2012 #42
DCKit Nov 2012 #2
defacto7 Nov 2012 #5
silverweb Nov 2012 #4
WCGreen Nov 2012 #27
defacto7 Nov 2012 #6
ItsTheMediaStupid Nov 2012 #10
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #11
Live and Learn Nov 2012 #21
pacalo Nov 2012 #12
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #15
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #17
pacalo Nov 2012 #24
JustAnotherGen Nov 2012 #30
stlsaxman Nov 2012 #32
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #33
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #19
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #22
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #26
defacto7 Nov 2012 #43
davidpdx Nov 2012 #23
kelliekat44 Nov 2012 #28
stlsaxman Nov 2012 #31
defacto7 Nov 2012 #44
defacto7 Nov 2012 #45
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #46
gravity Nov 2012 #47
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #48

Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:23 AM

1. look, Am radio is shrinking fast...

How many people that you know actually listen to anything on AM radio. It's crappy reception and it sound awful.

The future is on the net or on the satellite. Every new car comes with a free trial of satellite radio.

Ten years from now there will be no AM radio to speak of.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:30 AM

3. Believe it or not, some people only listen to AM radio.

and that IS their source of RW education... It's still out there. Most of these are rural. They don't even know what satellite radio is. Milking cows, you don't bring along your iPud, you turn on the Phillips.

These guys vote too.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:50 AM

13. And they are not going to vote for a liberal either...

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:23 AM

18. Keep fighting the good fight, all!

You have right on your side, and an army of people behind you! Fight on....!

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Response to kag (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:02 AM

25. You have to go where the votes are....

I bet if we looked into president Obama's re-election plan there was next to nothing spent on AM Radio.

The first rule of Political Fight Club is to go where you voters are and make sure they are going to vote for you. And sad as it might seem, those votes are not listening to AM radio.

Of course there is always the exception to the rule but it is a classic mistake to elevate personal opinions and likes into a large collection of people just like they are.

I grew up on AM radio and have a lot of fond memories of those shows but that era is going to continue to be more irrelevant as more and more media choices are offered.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:57 PM

36. Technically speaking, your right about AM to a point...

But as far as going to the voters, in this case I would ask you why you think preaching to the choir is more important than preaching to the "lost"?

We do need people going after the big money radio scheme.. satellite, FM, net etc. Sure. But I wonder about the overlooked rural folk who in the end may have a lot of say eg. larger families, and sometimes a network of their own that is only subject at this point to right wing propaganda. Start getting to them and we could benefit politically in the long run as well as make a dent in hate radio. Who knows, maybe even stop a Timothy McVey. Is there money to be made in it? Probably not. It would be more of a mission than anything.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:14 PM

37. It's not financially feasable...

Who is going to bankroll a project that at best will bring in a small tick up in the percentage of voters going for the democratic party.

Politics starts with the proposition to strengthen your base, identifying and persuading swing voters and then, only then should you go after the people that are just not that into you.

President Obama raised and spent, by some estimates, over a billion dollars and he still couldn't make any in roads in the GOP's hold on the rural evangelicals.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:45 PM

38. Maybe because money can't buy people or an election.

Everybody keeps trying to do that and it fails on large scales. In this election, we have witnessed this on a scale never before seen in history. The only thing it promotes is business, not votes.

In some ways you make a lot of sense, but there are some people who don't do things like a banker. OK, if you only have one choice, your way is probably the right bet. But chipping away at the fringe has worked for hundreds of years and in many a revolution. I wouldn't underestimate people.

" only then should you go after the people that are just not that into you. "
Maybe that's why America is totally polarized. The gap is huge.

Financial feasibility is not on the table; of course it wouldn't be a good financial investment. As far as bank rolling... it doesn't take that much to go rogue. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who want to do something more with their money than just make money. They just might buy air space for a cause and make it legal.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:34 AM

7. I do in CA, progressive of course.

But I'll be damned if I am going to pay just to hear decent talk radio over the public air waves. I already fell for the cable tv promise of ad free, gazillions of channels of programming just to find out it wasn't ad free and showed the same crappy programs on many of its gazillion channels.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:30 AM

20. Cable tv is garbage. We're paying a rigged-up, jacked-up fee

to be able to see just a few tv programs/channels that have us hooked. And I can't believe that some markets charge premium prices for cable networks that are included in the basic package deals by other markets. What a sleazy racket.

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Response to pacalo (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:49 PM

34. You know what I'm talking about, pacalo

 

For instance, Faux and CNN are included on basic packages in red states, but in order to get MSNBC in my area you must buy the digital High Def most costly package to get it. The system is rigged against us in red states. I have complained to the cable company, you have likely complained, and I'm sue thousands of us have complained. What's their reply to complaints? They apologize for the inconvenience and offer to do nothing. In other words, they design it that way. We have buy the super premium HD package or forget it.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:33 AM

49. I do get MSNBC on my basic package but it shows you what a racket it is when others have to pay

premium prices for it. We should be able to choose our own channels.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:39 AM

8. Me, for one.

 

I have never considered satellite radio because it's not a necessity. I listen to music on FM and sports talk on AM nearly every single day. As a matter of fact, I personally don't know anyone who has satellite radio that I'm aware of. I'm not certain I would ever pay for radio reception.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:48 AM

9. Is that so?

 

Tell that to the millions of listeners to Rush, Hannity, etc. Apparently they don't think it's shrinking or vanishing. They have become a religion in rural and red state America. People like you stay in denial of what's reality on the ground.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:51 AM

14. And that is where AM Radio will die.

Out in the boonies.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:07 AM

16. It's not going to die in the boonies

 

or in Kansas City or Charlotte or Omaha or Birmingham or Dallas or anywhere else unless.........there suddenly isn't any reception and it can't be tuned in. Even if all the music channels went off the air, even if all the sports talk went off the air, even if pentecostal preachers went off the air, ..........Clear Channel or EIB or whomever owns those wingnut channels will still be broadcasting on AM radio to people in the midwest and south. They know a good fishing hole when they see one, and they have had exclusive rights to this one for over 25 years.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:49 PM

39. Yep!

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:40 AM

29. I've got a couple of AM radios.

One is a 1926 RCA floor model and the other is a 50's table model. I rarely listen to the local radio music station on the older radio but do listen to the gardening show on the 50's bakelite on an occasional Sunday morning. Growing up, listening to those 50,000 watt, clear channel stations at night was an absolute MUST. I remember when the first FM stations began going online. What kind of fad is that?

Slowly, over the years, AM radio became the poor man's podium. Buying time on an AM station was a low-cost haven for preachers, pitchmen, spanish programming, and country music. I suspect that you are correct in predicting the demise of AM radio. But, it won't be in what remains of my lifetime. There are still a bunch of farmers and ranchers that eat their breakfast while listening to the early morning farm report on AM stations. One of my treasured memories is listening to the Lightcrust Doughboys at lunchtime when I was a kid. Came on every weekday at 12:15 p.m. Some of them went on to become the Bob Wills Band. AM radio was in its heyday with Amos and Andy, Lum and Abner, and momma could listen to Stella Dallas while she ironed the clothes. I miss what it was; not what it has become.

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Response to jamesatemple (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:57 PM

35. Right you are.

 

The rural areas and cities of the red states are not going to buy satellite radio. The AM markets for rightwing talk will always be there, just like the pentecostal preachers raving in double-time. They aren't going away in our lifetime. Maybe some future Jetsons generation, but no time soon. They will continue to be filled with Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest with no dissenting point of view. That's just the sad truth.

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Response to jamesatemple (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:55 PM

41. You have that right!

I rebuilt a 1937 General Electric AM/Shortwave radio. It's quite a masterpiece of ancient electronics. It stands about 4 feet high with a 15 inch speaker. Works like a dream. Only problem is, the only stations are 3 right wing nut stations and 2 sports... unless you go way to the end of the dial and get the rogue Mariachi music!

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:55 PM

40. I listen to the radio, it is our airwaves

Many of the callers into progressive radio have been truckers who listen to the radio while driving. Satellite costs money, the radio is free and a part of our commons. We should not give that away.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:56 PM

42. hear, hear!

That's where WE should be "preaching".

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:26 AM

2. I was in rural, western VA when the Derecho came through on June 29th...

 

and I heard nothing on any of the local stations until it was threatening Charlottesville, nearly a 100 miles to the east. We had to cut up eleven trees to clear the driveway.

That's what allowing mega ownership of our media has cost us.

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Response to DCKit (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:31 AM

5. it's cost us all a whole lot.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:30 AM

4. Possible solution?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251245340

If we've learned anything from the rethugs, it's that messaging is very, very important.

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Response to silverweb (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:15 AM

27. Messaging to your base and those that can be persuaded by your message is where you should

go. It's folly and very expensive to try and convince people who are not going to be receptive to your message and is a waste of scarce resources on most campaigns. Which, btw, your donors will wonder why you are spending money so recklessly.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:33 AM

6. hear, hear!

Bring it on...

We need radio on the air that reaches the rw little guy. They need to hear the facts. Rogue radio is not a bad solution for a revolution.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:56 AM

10. Reinstitute the Fairness Doctrine

Until Reagan ended it, it was a requirement for any broadcast station to allow time for dissenting opinions to be aired. Given the concentration of media ownership, it's the only way to insure our people hear both sides of issues.

It's a way to not allow 24/7 lying to go unchallenged.

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Response to ItsTheMediaStupid (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:28 AM

11. I'm with ya.

 

This seems to be baked in for whatever reason. Nobody has the will to challenge it and I don't know why. It's not like we're trying to move heaven and earth.

The masses in the midsection and south haven't been brainwashed overnight or by accident. This has been a very deliberate one-sided media endeavor that most would admit has been very effective.

If it's a matter of money, then how much money would it take? Ted Turner once owned 2 national news networks. Why can't we get one solitary national radio network to add some balance and fairness? Right now, the righties have it all and then some. This is incredibly unfair. Magnanimously unfair. Gigantically unfair. Universally unfair. Besides that, it's not fair.

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Response to ItsTheMediaStupid (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:35 AM

21. +1 This should really be a priority for Obama. nt

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:49 AM

12. You are so right. Plus, as an added insult to those of us who are geographically challenged,

even the music dj's get in their reichwinger comments -- there's no escape.

Living in a red state is like being one of the few who didn't catch a plague that taps into the dark side of people. The "up is down" affliction is due to the media that surrounds us, so there's definitely a need for nationwide progressive radio programs.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:52 AM

15. Here's the problem as I see it. There is no Big Money on our side. Richard Mellon-Scaife poured

 

half a billion dollars into creating a medium, the sole purpose of which was to instill and promote this insanity. He did this in the 80s when far fewer people had that kind of money, he lost money at astonishing rates for years, and he was prepared to spend even more.

He didn't do it to make more money, he was born into a family that has owned this nation for generations, money is irrelevant to them (his official listing on the Forbes list is a joke), he did it because he is a true believer and because he could. He picked up allies along the way, people with names like Coors, Chase, Koch, DuPont, Vanderbilt, Lazard, and so on, just look at a list of the robber barons of the 19th century, you will find many of the same names with a few additions.

There are many rich people that do not agree with these madmen, but none of them are personally invested in countering this, they have done far better under this madness than they could have hoped to in any equitable society, so they will engage in some philanthropy and garner publicity by decrying the injustice of it all. But commit the vast sums of money required to take it down? No, thank you.

There are no Teddy Roosevelts, Nobels, or even Carnegies anymore.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:16 AM

17. Best explanation I've heard yet.

 

I knew there must be some logical reason we have been overlooking this treasure chest. It appears it must be money that none on our side can afford to sacrifice. The rightwing has exclusive fishing rights and we are too late to buy a license.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:42 AM

24. I love your post.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:12 AM

30. Tell me more truths!

Nailed it!

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:33 AM

32. and now Bane ownes Clear Channel, to boot.

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Response to stlsaxman (Reply #32)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:45 PM

33. Yes, Bain does own it and I don't believe it is any coincidence. I saw this same scenario played

 

out in the Phoenix area almost 10 years ago. A local station went with the Air America service and added some local liberal talent and rapidly became successful. They displaced the number two conservative talk station in the first year and were gaining on the number one station with every book, when suddenly the owner of the local station was made a deal by some religious network that was too good to turn down, and the station format was changed to all God all day and eventually folded.

Dr. Mike Newcomb was one of the local guys and had the means and the will to keep it going, but not enough access to get more than the barely audible (5,000 watts daytime, 500 watts at night. What most local college radio stations have) 1480 KPHX. So Phoenix still has a left-wing talk station, but it can only be heard in a very limited area.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:24 AM

19. I have a theory about talk radio, and why it's so popular with the right.

When a liberal, especially a younger one, turns on the radio they bop their head and sing along.

When a conservative turns on the radio they make a face and ask no one in particular what the hell kind of crap is this. They complain that they can't even understand the words.

They then switch bands and listen to the woeful plight of other disgruntled conservatives like themselves, who feel the world and pop culture has left them behind.

Therefore, I doubt any liberal talk radio will ever do any better than Air America. That is, they'll find listeners, but not on the scale seen by Limbaugh and Levin.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:37 AM

22. You just don't get it.

 

Yes, they may very well be as you describe. They may not care for modern music. They may not care for anything but the drone of someone's voice. They may be rural, unengaged, and some of them downright conservative in their outlook. But they vote, many of them. And there was a time when many of them voted for us. Look at the electoral maps now. Outside of the large cities, we're losing votes. If we give up on them, we are conceding huge chunks of populism. If we limit ourselves to what we have now, it's no more than a 51-48 kind of split. Sometimes less, sometimes more. We can turn some of those people with voices of reason. They never get to hear reason. Never. They are never exposed to it. How can they ever see anything differently if they have never seen or heard the other side? They are members of a cult. Rightwing talk radio is a cult, their form of religion.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:07 AM

26. Just going by what I see in my RW friends. We're all about 55-60.

Personally, I hate corporate FM radio but love music. Fortunately, I have Sirius/XM and get to listen to the music I enjoy in the car. SatRad also has liberal talk of course, but I seldom tune in because Underground Garage with Cleveland icon Kid Leo rocks.

You can't make liberals tune in to the squealing static of AM talk radio, no matter who you put on. I love Maddow, and never miss it if I'm home, but I have no reason or desire to listen to that while I'm driving. When my RW friends don't want to hear politics, they dial up sports talk.

So that much I get.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:02 AM

43. Jack.. I'm with you!

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:42 AM

23. I am a little out of touch with what is going on in the US

since I've been living outside the country for almost 9 years. Air America didn't last very long. Traditional radio seems to be outdated. I think it has to be something on the internet run by businesses that support Democrats. People on here have been putting lists recently of who not to patronize we need one of who TO patronize. I know someone else said there are various forms of "blue lists". Someone needs to come up with a creative idea and then hire a few people to host shows. Fuck terrestrial communications, it's so 20th century.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:22 AM

28. It seems to me that folks like Oprah, Soros, Buffet could form an investment broadcast network

to do the progressive or "liberal" side of politics, economics etc. It would be a service to the nation instead of more of the pablum that Oprah now puts out through Dr. Phil and others. Not suggesting that these ?TV and cable show not continue but just that radio is a powerful information conduit. A lot of people spend more time in their cars listening to radio than you might think. Just ask the folks at "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me." It would be a fantastic way to educate and inform people.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:26 AM

31. if you have a smartphone app for streaming radio, do a search "talk" for "progressive"...

there are about 40 stations across the country that host progressive hosts.

the list of hosts on the "networks" are pretty standard- Bill Press, Stephanie Miller, Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy...

you'll even find "Democracy NOW" on some.

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Response to stlsaxman (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:05 AM

44. and those that don't have a smart phone?

There are millions of them and most are not getting anything but hate radio.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:09 AM

45. People who want to overlook AM radio

What ever your argument about it being good or a waste.. remember..

The right wing has not overlooked it! They own it, use it, and target the little guy in rural America.

So, we want to pass it by because it's not cost effective or we should be serving our base? Rural America is the right wing base... why? Because the right wing hate mongers don't overlook them.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:16 AM

46. Exactly, defacto7

 

And let's remember that it's not only rural America we are conceding here by omitting this form of media. Large cities in the south and midwest have nothing but rightwing talk on more than one AM channel, sometimes multiple channels with the whole range of hosts. Most everywhere you spot red states on the latest election results, there is a plethera of rightwing radio channels and ZERO progressive talk.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:30 AM

47. Right wing radio is funded by advertising

It doesn't need some billionaire donor to support itself. There is a large rabid right wing base that will listen to hate all day, and advertisers love it.

The reason there is no left wing radio in rural areas because there are not enough people who listen to it to attract advertising dollars.

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Response to gravity (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:49 AM

48. And the cities surrounding these rural areas?

 

Indianapolis, Charlotte, Memphis, Tallahassee, Mobile, Shreveport, Omaha, Salt Lake City, Boise, Kansas City, Lexington, Dallas Ft Worth, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Bismarck, Pierre, ect, etc, etc,...................................all those cities in all those red states and there wouldn't be enough listeners to draw advertising dollars in all those markets?

Are you saying that all of that huge swathe of people wouldn't even want to listen out of curiousity?

I'm amazed we are conceding all this territory and just dismissing them.

The only real bonafide explanation that has impressed me is #15 by Egalitarian Thug. He said it was mostly a losing proposition in the 80s when it started up, but the big money that started it all had money to burn as they slowly cornered the entire market. Rightwing ideologue billionaire who just gambled it would pay huge dividends for his kind of people in the years hence. It has.

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