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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:32 AM

States wanting out...if anybody is surprised about those petitions...

And it matters.

Now they need official government action like a legislature going there and a governor. This makes Texas the only candidate that i would even think off, and not because it's Texas, but because Perry actually uttered the S word while in office.

So what should the rest of us do if they defied all odds and even with Perry you are talking of odds slightly higher than flying pigs.

While it is tempting to say sayonara...no, not quite. These amicable divorces happen in the modern period with referendums...the decision will affect millions...they also require the actual participation of 80% of the registered voters (we don't get there in Presidential years) with significant majorities wanting out. If under those conditions we reach 20% of we want to leave, I will be shocked.

Yes, it is a risk, but also an opportunity. It might just end that talk for a generation or so. These people who want out are a real minority in their states. And this should be the take away. On the down side, civil wars are not started by happy majorities either.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:36 AM

1. Lousiana beat them to it

I guess they figured they could have taken care of the Karina aftermath by themselves?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:38 AM

3. I am not talking of the few thousand idiots

I am talking of government officials uttering the word Secession. I don't recall Jindal saying it. So where rubber meets road, actual government action, I give Texas odds slightly higher than pigs fly. LA is still is in the pigs fly category.

What scares me is what these thousands are willing to do next.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:37 AM

2. The states that want "out of the union" are the poorest and would be hurt the most by not having a

Federal Government that builds their roads, look after their elderly and a million other things. It always amazes me how people vote against their own self-interest.

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Response to patricia92243 (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:43 AM

5. Alas I doubt the majority of Texans, Louisianans. Etcetera

Would vote to go. I just don't, and if they surprise me and do, well, good luck. One condition would be no application for re-entry and no foreign aid.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:38 AM

4. "civil wars are not started by happy majorities either"

 

Those are some true words. They can be defeated but still do serious harm. One of the biggest mistakes in American history is that we forgave so many confederates after the war. We should have crushed them more.

I am also annoyed at how they are portrayed in history now as heroic but misguided. They were a bunch of traitorous bigots.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:44 AM

6. I don't see it ever happening, but...

...I'm of the opinion that if the citizens of Texas hold a referendum, and if in that referendum 51% or more of the citizens say "We don't want to be part of the United States anymore", then the federal government should immediately begin the process of disentangling themselves from Texas, and let them go.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:42 AM

7. I'm a 72yo Texan. My first memory of "we will secede" is this.

In 1954, Repugs were floating the "secession" strategy. My mother calmed me down by telling me that extremists have done that every year since Texas entered the Union. Their strategy works this way: Just after an election, the next campaign begins immediately for extremists. They organize and raise money with the promise to secede. A goper candidate moves right and adopts them in the primary season, and slowly moves a little towards the center, always testing the polls to maximize the support and position toward the center. After winning the primary, the RWer continues moving toward the center, polling and adapting. If elected, the RWer teases about "secession" if WDC doesn't smarten up. Lots of teasing, but no action. You should recognize Gov. Perry's path to Austin -- that is how he did it. Now, a new national cycle begins, and the tiny but vocal minority begins with "we will secede". For those concerned about the secession movement gaining traction and the State of Texas actually presenting a petition to the US Congress, you are right about this: there will be civil war. But, it will be in Texas, as the smarter 90+ kick the asses of the dumber 10-. Let's recognize the pattern here. This is how Texas begins the new campaign cycle.

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Response to SDjack (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:08 PM

8. Yup, I know

But it still is no joking matter. Oh and I am serious as a heart attack regarding that referendum. If they get 20% in that kind of an election I will be shocked at those high numbers.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:17 PM

9. We need a "no mooching" Constitutional Amendment. No State should

receive Fed money in excess of what it paid in taxes. Watch the hollering start to get that stopped.

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Response to SDjack (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:55 PM

11. Except that the whole idea

is to provide the tax money to where the greatest needs are. Otherwise, there's no need to collect federal taxes that will be sent back to the states - just let the states collect it and use it at home.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:32 AM

13. Yes, I agree. The purpose of a Union is to apply resources

where they are needed the most. That strengthens the Union and everyone, including the tax money donors, will benefit. The idea is get secessionists to look at the whole picture. They want to leave. Well, we want our money. It's not going to happen.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:50 PM

10. IMO these states are going to end up hurting and more in debt than ever. They will look at their

neighbors who did participate and see how far behind they are because of their own decisions and they are going to teach any rethug voters a lesson they will not soon forget. I feel sorry for the people who will not get adequate health care but unless the courts act I do not see any way of forcing them to do what is best for so many.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:47 PM

14. I think the debt is precisely the problem

The issue a lot of people have with the federal government is the federal debt.

And it is a legit problem that isn't going to go away any time soon. If we continue without a real plan to fix the debt problem, things will start getting ugly in this country in more ways than one. Not just economic issues, but a lot of states will begin to get worried that the federal government has bit off more than it can chew.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:59 PM

12. there's only two forces capable of making a secession happen

State governments or military.

Nobody else has the necessary power or authority

Or, as you point out, a popular referendum, which won't happen.


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