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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:38 AM

About this secession business....

Do you seriously think the people who don't want to secede will just sit by and wave as we leave?

And please don't start that 'You can move' shite. Most people don't have the money it takes. Let them move far, far away.

I don't remember President Obama getting anywhere near only 10% of the vote in any state. He got a good percentage in all of them. Use that as a rule of thumb for the number who would oppose this silly idea.

If it ever got very serious, those people will be heard. If some area happened to ever leave, there would be guerrilla warfare forever. It would not be pretty.

I'd like to thank those who would gladly throw all overboard including a lot of DUers. Have you ever looked at one of those geographical polls that people periodically do here. The number of members from these areas isn't negligible.

'Bless you' or 'Bless your hearts'. You know which group you are in.

46 replies, 4505 views

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Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply About this secession business.... (Original post)
Are_grits_groceries Nov 2012 OP
Skittles Nov 2012 #1
aletier_v Nov 2012 #2
Skittles Nov 2012 #3
Turbineguy Nov 2012 #4
oldbanjo Nov 2012 #5
wandy Nov 2012 #32
Skittles Nov 2012 #36
juxtaposed Nov 2012 #6
Are_grits_groceries Nov 2012 #7
juxtaposed Nov 2012 #28
srichardson Nov 2012 #8
LiberalAndProud Nov 2012 #39
creon Nov 2012 #9
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #10
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #11
Sheldon Cooper Nov 2012 #12
AlbertCat Nov 2012 #14
cordelia Nov 2012 #15
JackInGreen Nov 2012 #17
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #21
roguevalley Nov 2012 #33
Are_grits_groceries Nov 2012 #24
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #35
Are_grits_groceries Nov 2012 #45
Odin2005 Nov 2012 #38
JoeyT Nov 2012 #25
Shadowflash Nov 2012 #26
pasto76 Nov 2012 #13
jimlup Nov 2012 #16
JHB Nov 2012 #18
Progressive dog Nov 2012 #19
Hugabear Nov 2012 #20
roguevalley Nov 2012 #34
Caretha Nov 2012 #22
99Forever Nov 2012 #23
Shadowflash Nov 2012 #27
Shankapotomus Nov 2012 #29
nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #30
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #31
Art_from_Ark Nov 2012 #42
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #43
Posteritatis Nov 2012 #37
Taverner Nov 2012 #40
democrattotheend Nov 2012 #41
Indpndnt Nov 2012 #44
Sirveri Nov 2012 #46

Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:44 AM

1. I suggest everyone see the movie LINCOLN

and remember why it is so important we all stick together

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:48 AM

2. thats a good question. why again is it important?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:37 AM

4. That's what the teaparty movement is all about.

It's not about "taking the country back", whatever that means. It's about dividing the house.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:25 AM

5. The Tea Party should be kicked in the ass by everyone,

they are the trouble with this Country, if it weren't for them there would be a lot more people working right now. They have caused the problems that Obama is having with the Congress.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:32 AM

32. Sadley Teapublicans don't see it that way. They think they are taking their country back.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:47 PM

36. CORRECT: *WE* took our country back last Tuesday

yes INDEED

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:26 AM

6. I suggest everyone read 'Better Off Without ’Em,’ by Chuck Thompson

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:32 AM

7. I suggest you read the response to that book:

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:13 AM

28. I've read it, have you read the book yet

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:33 AM

8. I am from one of those red states...

And have no doubt secession will be talked about sooner or later. When that happens I will do two things. One, remind them some of us did support Obama and regardless of their opinion he is our President. That in and of itself makes him worthy of respect. Then two, if you are so against welfare, handouts or whatever, how do they feel about our state receiving more federal money than we pay. Like it or not, we are a welfare state.

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Response to srichardson (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:58 PM

39. I wish I could remember which Republican responded to that question.

The answer, I remember. It was that the strings attached to the money made the federal dollars expensive to accept. He would gladly give up the dollars to sever the strings. And we see (R) politicians acting on this sentiment every now and then. The interesting thing is that many of them didn't get reelected, although I don't have stats at hand to back that assertion.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:55 AM

9. No

There will not be any secession.
That is a fulmination by a sore loser. He is the one with a belly ache. Forget about him; he is not worth the time or energy.



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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:55 AM

10. I'm sure they mean well, bless their little pointy heads

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:59 AM

11. Grits, your neighbors are idiots.

I think it's time you let this sink in. It's nothing personal against you or other southern DU'ers, we know you try. But you're surrounded by people of a sort who should not be trusted with the care of houseplants, much less carry such a large portion of how our nation decides policy.

Grits, the people around you... the folks who elect a dead man just to ensure the Republican party gets to call the shots without voter accountability? They're not going to listen to you. What you say... it's not going to change them. And the sad thing is... they're the ones who are in charge. And barring some wacky demographics change... that's just not likely to change.

Try as you might, Grits... but your neighbors, these toe-gnawing miscreants who reinstated a Supreme Justice who was removed from the bench for Ethics violations because they were certain it's what GAWD wanted... These people are a fucking millstone around our collective necks. Bless you for trying, but... Man, it's just not working. I wish I could give you a magic recipe to fix it, but damn. You and I both know these people have been living in a bubble and have been doing so since 1876 - Fox news don't have a damn thing on that record. Better men and women than yourself have tried harder for longer, and it's still the same.

So now, your idiot neighbors are gibbering about secession again because... well really, it's the only fucking thing that these idiots know about. They really think it's a threat, that the universe will fucking stop right then and bow and scrape and beg the south to stay on. However, we all know that your idiot neighbors aren't going to get anywhere with it. You know this too, right?

The way I see it, these idiots are trying to hold the rest of the nation hostage by holding themselves hostage. The rest of us are simply saying "go ahead; dare ya," knowing full damn well nothing will come of it. End result, the idiots back off, look like even bigger idiots, and you have a weak spot to capitalize on.

Assuming of course you could take a break from griping about how mean DU is to the south for all of two minutes. I know, it's hard, you're from the south and goddamn it you are entitled *princess stomp!*

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)


Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:31 AM

14. people of a sort who should not be trusted with the care of houseplants,

Huh....

That's what I thought of the Bush administration.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:33 AM

15. You seem to be quite ignorant.

And bigoted.

And most certainly intolerant.

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Response to cordelia (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:43 AM

17. Open ended accusation

with no qualifying explanations what so ever are often matters of deflection or inarticulateness in the face of challenge, which is yours?

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Response to cordelia (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:14 AM

21. And you seem to not know what any of those words mean

Congratulations on having the ability to hork 'em out, though. Some of us have hidden posts from calling actual bigots "bigots."

Funny how that works out, I guess.

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Response to cordelia (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:07 PM

33. its possible to vilify some without vilifying all.

the idiots of texas are beyond help. they deserve all the scorn everyone can give them. those that aren't idiots, I will sit next to you. I for one am SICK AS SHIT of southern asshats calling out the north and every place else. I can call them whatever I want back. I am speaking to them. Grits, I feel your pain. Alaska used to be blue. Now when the southern oil companies came they bought out the legislature and turned stupid into public policy.

I say this as someone whose family comes from Virginia, Missouri and Carolina when it all was one state. Fuck the idiots of Texas who want to be free. let them. The drug cartels will have a new foothold and they will understand when the federal money goes what poverty feels like. If that is what it takes, I am not against it. For the duration, you and yours can live at my house.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:31 AM

24. Well guess what?!

The demographics are changing.
We are getting more congressional seats. So it would behoove some of you supercilious people to help those of us here who have been fighting for years.

AND ME TELL YOU ONE THING!
You have no idea about my neighbors or anybody down here. You make broad brush statements about even the many people who did vote for Obama. You couldn't tell the backasses from those who are progressive because you see us all through those bigoted glasses you are wearing.

More minorities and others move in AND the hidebound, hardheaded mooks are getting older. There are younger ones just like them, but not as many. Thy can't stop time and progress only stops if we do.

As far as mean goes, DU doesn't hold a candle to what I've faced in my lifetime. I expect it from certain people. What is disheartening is coming here and finding no rest. It's like being attacked by
those who are supposed allies. If you are from the South, some people will gladly dump on you even as you are trying to work down here.

And I'll gripe or whatever you call it until the end of time if I want to. I'm not entitled to anything. Newsflash: I am allowed to express myself here unless they made you Content Queen. In addition, I don't stomp my feet because I don't want anybody to hear me coming and the only Princess I know is my neighbor's cat.

You better get down off that high horse before you fall off and break your neck, bless your heart!

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #24)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:13 PM

35. Yes yes yes, my "bigotry," based on being born and raised in the south

And every single family member of mine except one maternal uncle being scattered between Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. Surely I have no idea what I'm talking about despite long experience, continued correspondence, and continued reading of several newspapers in addition to whatever else pops up in the news and on DU.

As you would have noticed, if you weren't so fucking busy being a martyr, I do acknowledge there are decent progressive people in the south. It's simply that the dangerous cretins are the ones in charge because they outnumber you guys, set policy, and some of them are making the rest of you look incredibly stupid with their new secession gibberish.

Your state has a fun new discriminatory "voter ID" law on the books that comes into effect next year. I suggest you not try to call other people bigots for thinking that's a sign your region isn't a shining land of progressive sentiment.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 03:08 AM

45. The secession petitions are and can be made by every person who wants to.

Whether they are backed by those in charge or anywhere near a majority of voters is open to question.
I never said that this region was a shining land of progressive sentiment. I said there were people here working for progressive causes and that there were more than you think. In addition, just because there are idiots down here doesn't mean you aren't a bigot. Their stupidity doesn't trump yours.

You also call me a martyr because I defend the good people who ork down here and try to bring change? That's a warped definition.

As far as control goes, getting the power back in a lot of states has to be started at local levels. That is where peope are elected to statehouses and they are who draw district voting lines. They take great pains to divide areas into districts that have them with a majority of voters. Getting that control back is not easy.

If you think that getting rid of the South will create a northern country devoid of racial problems, poverty, and bigotry you are dead wrong. It's easy to dump all the woes on us. Good luck with Shangri-La.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #24)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:54 PM

38. She is a black Southerner, she has a goddamn right to bitch about the South.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:37 AM

25. Right about here is where I remind you

that the difference between Democratic votes in red states and blue states is 10-15% for most of them.

So no matter where you live, most of your neighbors are just as ignorant and bigoted as hers no matter where she lives.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:01 AM

26. 'these idiots are trying to hold the rest of the nation hostage by holding themselves hostage.'

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:17 AM

13. Would love to go remove all the federal property from texas. HIMARS style

again, what do they think is going to happen when some state or local schmucks roll up on Ft Hood and demand they turn over all the cavalry equipment or something? even the right wing soldiers would be pretty pissed off.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:41 AM

16. Don't worry - the people you are talking about on DU are a small minority

Most of us realize what you've stated here. From the blue state of Michigan - thank you for your difficult work.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:53 AM

18. Just remind would-be secessionists that what they're REALLY talking about...

...is them setting up their own reservation and them self-deporting to it. And they lost, so they are the ones who have to move.


Using the correct terminology kinda kills whatever romance they have with the idea.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:02 AM

19. The civil war was fought over secession

The Federal government can and will act to protect the Union, by any means necessary. It has done it before. Talk of secession and of allowing our nation to dissolve is just talk.
It might be instructive for those who think that this is a real option to read the actual history of the Civil War. Large parts of the south, such as W. Va., Eastern Tennessee, non slaveholder parts of Georgia and even South Carolina opposed the war and resisted their new "government" from the start.
In the north there were many who supported the south, Maryland was one where Lincoln used the military to prevent the state legislature from meeting to secede. Ohio, where the Democratic candidate for governor was sent south.
Like it or not, we are one nation and as a people have the duty and obligation to protect the citizens of the blue states and the red states.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:08 AM

20. Secession within the mainland US will never happen.

It just won't. The United States would not allow it to happen. Furthermore, any talk of secession is just that, talk. You will never see any state or group of states formally announce their desire to secede.

The only state that I could possibly foresee seceding might be Hawaii - and even then it would have to be a mutual agreement between Hawaii and the US, not a unilateral action.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:10 PM

34. anyone who tries this will be arrested for treason. I know.

but it would be an interesting situation however terrible. It would be nice to silence this shit once and for all. Secession is a zero sum game for the south. The brits won't help them and they wouldn't be able to fend off the north. Sad all around that these apes still exist.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:18 AM

22. Secession "talk"

is just red meat being thrown out there for the demented Repub's constituents. All bloviating noise - meaningless blather and bluster. It is no more going to happen than NASA is going to start harvesting green cheese from the moon.

Strutting, chest beating and teeth gnashing from silly know nothings. Just a bunch of Repub governors last efforts to hang on to their base.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:27 AM

23. Hmmmm.

The petulant 3 year can't get their way and threatens to run away and join the circus and you think the problem is the parent saying "go ahead"?

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:05 AM

27. Amen!

Let them go and don't let Oklahoma hit you in the ass on the way out.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:17 AM

29. How about if we build or buy an artificial island

somewhere and we give it to the conservatives and laze faire capitalists as a gift? Then they can conduct all the political, economic and social experimentation they want without all of us fearing the consequences.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:17 AM

30. The requirements required to pull such a referendum

In the real word, if we even got that far, would expose these pro secession groups as a minority. I would be shocked if they reached 20% of the vote.

Realize these referendums require 80% or more of registered voters to participate and strong majorities to pass.

I give Texas, due to Perry, slightly better odds than flying pigs to even go there. The rest of the governors, flying pigs is about right.

What worries me is that it is minorities who start civil wars.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:18 AM

31. I've said jokingly that after all the Dems (the 41% who voted for Obama)

 

have emigrated from Texas to California or New York (or any other state), that Texas should revert to Mexico's sovereignty. If we're turning the clock back to 1860, let's just go ahead and keep on turning back to 1847.

And then I said, "But I doubt Mexico would have you." To which another DUer responded, "Mexico already has too many criminals."



After one of these pro-secesh Texas yokels wished an early death upon me by starvation on Facebook, I responded by advocating that Sherman v 2.0 be sent to Texas for some additional housekeeping. No response from said yokel as of yet.

Methinks someone needs a booster shot to his or her sense of humor.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:17 AM

42. I don't get the reference to 1847

Texas became independent in 1836, and a state in 1845. However, 1847 was the year that Brigham Young led his Mormons into Utah and declared "This is the place".

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:25 AM

43. Are you sure about that? I thought 1848 was the signal year (when the U.S.

 

defeated Mexico in the Mexican-American War).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

Maybe I had a brain fart?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:53 PM

37. The secession business is a few thousand disaffecteds spamming some petitions

It's the sort of non-issue slacktivist tantrum that people pull after things don't go their ways and will be forgotten in a few weeks. I'm not worried about it as much as I'm amused at the sheer silliness of some of them; you can find two or three hundred people in any state who will agree to anything.

It's not gonna happen, and if by some freak miracle it did, it would be made to un-happen exceedingly quickly.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:02 PM

40. Just like the rest of America, the South is changing (for the better)

 

I may joke about the South, but having a minority opinion makes you work that much harder. We in California get spoiled and we have OUR bubble too.

"What? You mean Marijuana still isn't legal???"

"Why would you go to church in the morning?"

"What???? Your boss voted for Bush???? But he seemed so normal..."

We are an immigrant nation. It is BECAUSE of this that we are strong, not in spite of it.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:14 PM

41. He got 44% in Mississippi

Does anyone else find that surprising? I know they have a large black population, but in 2008 Obama only got 11% of the white vote there (and Kerry only got 14% in 2004). On the other hand, Obama won 98% of the black vote in 2008 in Mississippi. Not sure what it was this year because no exit poll.

I know Mississippi hasn't been in play in a presidential race for a while, but with the large minority population, maybe that won't always be the case, especially if minorities continue to grow faster than whites. On the other hand, even Clinton couldn't win there, so maybe it is a lost cause. Does anyone remember if he competed in the deep south at all?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:33 AM

44. Good post. I happen to agree with you.

And am beyond disgusted by 'funny' people here who think it's a joke to slam those of us in red states. Threads like those (and this one to a much lesser extent) have made my Ignore list very robust since the election. I consider people who 'joke' like that (and then mock those who don't laugh) worse than wingnuts. Wingnuts, unlike the 'jokers,' don't know any better.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:13 AM

46. They're whining, they won't secede.

That said, if that's what they want, I support it. If they feel that it's simply so horrible here that they can no longer tolerate it, then I wish them the best of luck in establishing their own sanctum. Sometimes people just need to learn lessons for themselves, the vast majority of residents will likely tire quite quickly of living in a kleptocracy and vote to reincorporate.

Just because they leave does not preclude their peaceful return.

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