HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Do the poor get free heal...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:26 PM

Do the poor get free healthcare in america?

seriously.

16 replies, 4312 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 16 replies Author Time Post
Reply Do the poor get free healthcare in america? (Original post)
LaydeeBug Nov 2012 OP
Cal Carpenter Nov 2012 #1
Horse with no Name Nov 2012 #2
Arkansas Granny Nov 2012 #3
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2012 #4
aint_no_life_nowhere Nov 2012 #7
Aristus Nov 2012 #8
ebayfool Nov 2012 #11
Ms. Toad Nov 2012 #5
KT2000 Nov 2012 #6
LaydeeBug Nov 2012 #9
Whovian Nov 2012 #16
cali Nov 2012 #10
Zoeisright Nov 2012 #12
Cleita Nov 2012 #13
Yavin4 Nov 2012 #14
Cleita Nov 2012 #15

Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:36 PM

1. Short answer, no

There is medicaid and medicare and various state programs and community clinics and that all adds up to something, no doubt.

But using any reasonable definition of 'poor', the answer to your question is no.

Many poor people have little or no access to healthcare, free, 'affordable', or otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:37 PM

2. No.

Adults under the age of 65 do not generally qualify for the states Medicaid rolls except in very limited circumstances.

Yes, they can use the ER, BUT that is NOT healthcare--it doesn't involve health screenings, routine lab work or other procedures that those with insurance can get. It is very limited, specific care that will deal with emergent issues.

Many of the states have cut the benefits of Medicaid and CHIPS for children--so we have more children that are not covered...and THAT should be criminal.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:37 PM

3. No, they do not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:51 PM

4. No, they do not.

The idea that you can get free health care at an emergency room is a myth. If you show up at an ER with a serious problem that needs immediate attention they can't turn you away if you have no insurance or ability to pay (at least if that hospital gets federal grant money). But after they send you home they will bill you. If you don't pay after a certain amount of time the bill gets sent to a collection agency, and they will dun and harass you pretty much forever. Since you can't get out of an ER with a bill less than a couple grand, even for a relatively minor injury, most poor people won't be able to pay (unless they qualify for Medicaid, which these days is hardly anybody). And if you had something serious, like a heart attack, you're looking at a minimum of $20K. Unless you're pretty well-off (in which case you probably would have had insurance anyhow), this will send you into bankruptcy. To the extent the hospital doesn't ever get paid because the patient is broke and/or bankrupt, everybody else's medical bills and insurance premiums go up.

And then there's the fact that an ER will only handle serious or life-threatening conditions. Once you're stabilized and not at risk of croaking on their gurney, they send you home; you can't get treatment for chronic conditions or for follow-up care for the condition that brought you to the ER in the first place. So if you have no money and no insurance you don't get any medical care until you're so sick that you have to go back to the ER, at great and unnecessary expense for everyone concerned.

ER treatment is never free. For anybody.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:30 PM

7. +1,000,000

Boy is this ever right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:37 PM

8. Thank you. Perfect.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

ER visits for primary care are one of the many reasons why health care is so expensive in the U.S. ERs are not set up for primary care, and what they provide is far more expensive than dedicated primary care and/or preventive health care.

Health care costs would be much lower if we had a single-payer system in place, whereby people could get the primary care they need, obviating the need for emergency care for conditions that could have been prevented by good primary care.

ER losses incurred by hospitals get passed on to the taxpayer at an astronomical markup. If those anti-tax dickheads would just think for a change, they'd stop opposing national health insurance...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:51 PM

11. This is soooo right - been there ... done that.

I get so frustrated when I hear people spout off @ the poor supposedly getting 'free health care' - they have no clue what they're talking about. I work hard, but don't make enough to afford insurance.

I spent 4 months rolling & out of my frickin' mind in pain, lost @ 60 lbs between the constant puking & inability to keep anything down but small amounts of crackers & water, throat & mouth fried & bloody from the constant bile/acid burns while my daughters carried me to the local ER 3 times. They were unable to do gallbladder removal surgery (that would have been relatively minor & inexpensive if done the first visit) because they can only temporarily stabilize until it degraded (ruptured). I don't know who was more upset - me or the docs ... they knew it was gonna blow & hated that I would have to wait until it became life threatening & a riskier operation. The third visit I got lucky & was bleeding internally since it had finally blown.

In that 4 month period I lost all my customers (housekeeper) & had to sell my car to pay rent. Instead of paying an estimated $5000 bill if I had the surgery the first visit like they wanted I'm being dunned for $17,000 for the extra ER trips & more complicated surgery - I'm 56 & will likely spend the rest of my life paying for it (interest sure does make it grow). That sure doesn't sound free to me.

It has taken 2 years to finally see the light of day. I spent most of it walking everywhere, which would normally be a good thing. In my case it just finished off my knees - & that finished off my housekeeping business ... you just can't do housekeeping when both knees are shot.

I finally got another car & built up another business - Granny Nanny. But it was 2+ years of needless pain, misery, debt, etc. Should have been a week off at worst & back to work with a shot of paying it off & no worse for wear.

Free health care my taxpayin' ass ...





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:57 PM

5. Many will, starting in 2014 -

But not now. Now it is primarily available to children - and it is free only if you don't count the cost of applying for it, repeatedly updating information, appealing when the poorly trained workers don't do their job properly, and so on.

My daughter was on Healthy Start (Ohio's SCHIP program) from shortly after birth to age 8. My spouse had a job with health insurance; I was a stay at home mom. Our marriage was not recognized so our daughter could not be on my spouse's plan - and both my daughter and I were uninsurable. We tried to obtain affordable insurance for both of us first, since this plan was not really designed for out situation, I had resources but not income, and my spouse had both resources and income, so we felt guilty about using this porogram. Ultimately, because our situation was created by the government's refusal to recognize our family, we decided to accept the coverage to which we were legally entitled - even though from a moral standpoint it felt pretty icky.

The Healthy Start program is designed for children of parents with little income, even if they have resources. There is no resource test, and the 42 page welfare application (designed to ferret out what kind of resources you have - and requiring extensive documentation) is whittled down to about 6 pages and questions only about income.

Repeatedly I was told I had to fill out the 42 page application, and forced to appeal when I refused to do it. Each appeal resulted in being kicked off the program, going in person to the local welfare office, having a meeting with folks with an attitude and education they expected the public they were dealing with not to have (I have 2 degrees, and was in the process of obtaining a third). Ultimately I always won, but not after occasionally racking up bills I had to deal with.

Repeatedly, they "forgot" to send out the periodic reminders to fill out forms. I was repeatedly dropped, and had to reapply (or appeal).

I diligently reported every bit of income I had (I was running several Schedule C businesses which produced between $2,000 and $3,000 income a year). I know many people would not disclose this, but I did - and was repeatedly challenged about the expenses related to creating this income (one was work as a seamstress, and there were fabric and other expenses related to each item I produced which they repeatedly told me I could not deduct).

I had resources (both financial, social, and educational - among others) which most people accessing healthy start don't have - and I deliberately forced the system to work. There were times it took all my non-financial resources to do so.

So - when health care is available, it is not without cost, and the cost often requires non-financial resources which are not accessible to those who need access to health care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:18 PM

6. more like death care

if you are talking about the uninsured.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KT2000 (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:08 PM

9. Yep. I am. Someone is trying to say the poor get free health care.

Rightie: I don't remember "us" getting a vote in the decision for every tax paying American to be forced to purchase heath insurance. And to my knowledge the "poor" people have always gotten free heathcare. Notice I said tax paying. And I don't remember "us" getting a vote on the free pass for the illegal immigrants, oh and are the going to be required to purchase insurance?, or will we foot that bill too? Just how much will this cost "us"?

Laydeebug: Rightie, I am sorry, but I don't remember "us" getting a vote in the decision for every tax paying American to be forced to purchase two oil wars. And if "to your knowledge" implies a measure, you'd be missing a lot of said knowledge, because, of course, poor people do NOT get "free healthcare". I did notice you said tax paying. It would be nice if the rich started paying their fair share, like I do. I also noticed you are knee jerking without doing the research, and that might be a big part of this problem. kthanks.

~A boy rightie comes in and says the poor get free health care~ He is in the process we will see lots of cons do over the next few...sloughing off the con skin for a new one. He's all tryna agree with me and pretend "it wasn't him"

Laydeebug: Again, healthcare for the poor is not FREE. Can we walk in FACTS, and stop conflating stuff? Man! you guys are all over the place. ObamaCare has been roundly referred to as socialism all across rightie land. (I can link it if you need, but I promise, they did) Considering that the same bill that became the ACA was the Heritage Foundation's plan in the 90's (same bill) look at how far to the extreme right the republican party has gone. Don't take my word for this. Let some dust settle (tensions are pretty high right now) and honestly. soberly. LOOK at their platform. Take ten minutes and check out, speaking of 'just implementing the good in a plan' and look at other health care plans in the world, what it costs. What are their life expectancies? Quality of life? Instances of heart disease? Cancer? It goes on and on, and then try to justify to yourself why we shouldn't be providing health care to our own. WE PROVIDE FREE HEALTHCARE RIGHT NOW TO EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD IN IRAQ. WE. US THE TAXPAYERS. Why *anyone* would want better for foreign citizens than they do for their own is a SPITE NUGGET indeed. But they'll proceed thinking they're 'moral". Watch.

Rightie: Oh Laydeebug, Yes the poor do get "free" healthcare. It is free to them. They pay nothing at all, because our government, "us" give them a check every single month, and housing, and earned income credit, etc. Yet they pat no taxes. We continue to reward them for doing nothing. The healthcare IS free to them, "we" pay for it. I still don't get how anyone can find that the better you do in life the more you have to pay. So lets see if you work for a company that promotes you over the years, after you have worked hard to earn it and you make say 100k a year, should you pay more in taxes than the person who is in the same job and refused to do anything to "move up the ladder" .???

Laydeebug: Rightie, there is a LOT of things that are not true in your post. And I do mean a LOT. Now you seem to be adverse to the term BULLSHIT, so I will give you a chance to syphon it out. What if you're wrong? Seriously. What *IF* you're *WRONG*? What then? Will you change your thinking? Seriously. I am not calling names, I am asking the honest question...what if you're wrong?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:22 PM

16. Very nicely said. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:14 PM

10. I'm poor. I don't pay for my insurance

I have no deductibles for medication or docs or hospitalization. I'm incredibly grateful that I have Medicaid through Green Mountain Care. I've had 3 surgeries and countless visits to docs and clinics over the past year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:04 PM

12. Of course not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:06 PM

13. I had to go to the ER the previous Friday with a swollen jaw.

It turned out to be a blocked salivary duct. I was in the triage area with two other families when an administrator came around taking insurance information. One of the families was Mexican and the mother spoke no English. Her son had fallen out of a tree and hurt his head. There was a father and son who were ordinary white Americans, the son had been hit by a car while riding a bicycle. I have Medicare and a co-insurance. The Mexican family actually had private insurance, but the father and son had none. I was interested in seeing how that would play out. The administrator came back to the father and son and gave them some forms to fill out for Medi-Cal, the California version of Medicaid. I wondered if the Mexican family had been undocumented with no insurance would Medi-Cal have picked them up or would the hospital just have to give them free care? But I think there is something out there for everyone if people are pointed in the right direction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:07 PM

14. There Is No Such Thing as "Free" Healthcare in America

Everyone pays taxes, income, payroll, sales, property, fees, etc. And those tax dollars fund programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:15 PM

15. Well said.

My so called "free" health care plans cost me almost three hundred dollars a month, so I get livid every time some wingnut idiot gets on the TV and goes on about free health care for old people or poor people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread