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Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:02 PM

What no one is telling you about Washington's marijuana legalization

http://www.examiner.com/article/what-no-one-is-telling-you-about-washington-s-marijuana-legalization?fb_action_ids=4788241062368&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%224788241062368%22%3A435742946487488%7D&action_type_map=%7B%224788241062368%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map



<snip>
First, don't light up just yet. The Initiative does not take effect until Dec, 6. Even then marijuana can not be legally purchased until the state chooses who can legally produce and sell it, a process that could take up to a year, and your neighborhood pot dealer will unlikely be chosen. Users will only be permitted to possess up to one ounce of dried marijuana and possessing just 50% more than the “legal” amount will land you with a felony charge that holds a jail sentence of up to 5 years in prison. Don't expect to be smoking anywhere other than a private residence either because smoking in public is still illegal. In fact a Manette resident has already been arrested after police were called to a local park where the man said that after Tuesday's election, pot is legal. "We saw it on the news," he told the officer.

Even more so, growing, processing, and selling will be controlled by the Washington State Liquor Control Board with a 75 percent tax not including the 10 percent sales tax. The Liquor Control Board will also be in charge of regulating how much THC can be present in the marijuana sold and where and how many distributors will be allowed to open. Ordinary citizens will not be permitted to grow marijuana themselves either. Even more surprising, simply passing a joint from one person to another will still be a class C felony. Growing hemp still remains relatively unchanged as well.

One of the worst parts is the DUID (driving under the influence of drugs) provision and the zero tolerance clause for those under the age of 21 despite that people under 21 can legally possess medical marijuana. Medical marijuana patients and recreational users can now be charged with DUID for being above the designated 5 ng (nano-gram) / ml (milliliter) THC blood content limit (or a ZERO tolerance 0 ng/ml limit for those under 21) which means users will be instantly guilty of a DUID and will have their constitutional right to a fair trial revoked if they refuse a police blood draw. Under previous laws the system required law enforcement to prove impairment in court for a guilty verdict to occur.

This blood limit is not supported by any legitimate science either. The U.S. Department of Transportation concluded that “it is not possible to conclude anything about a drivers impairment on the basis of his/her plasma concentrations.” Other government studies from the National Library of Medicine have gone to show this 5 ng amount can be present in your blood days after using marijuana making arrest for being completely sober while driving a large possibility.

More worrisome is that when Nevada passed a similar DUID law, DUID arrests jumped 76 percent statewide. Several Seattle lawyers have issued their concern over the likely increase in arrests.
..more..

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Arrow 39 replies Author Time Post
Reply What no one is telling you about Washington's marijuana legalization (Original post)
G_j Nov 2012 OP
uppityperson Nov 2012 #1
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #11
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #2
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #12
frazzled Nov 2012 #3
mick063 Nov 2012 #4
Floyd_Gondolli Nov 2012 #9
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #14
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #24
Revanchist Nov 2012 #5
CBGLuthier Nov 2012 #6
TrueBlueinCO Nov 2012 #7
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #8
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #15
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #17
Floyd_Gondolli Nov 2012 #10
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #16
Mr.Bill Nov 2012 #29
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #36
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #18
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #21
slampoet Nov 2012 #34
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #13
Mr.Bill Nov 2012 #19
Panasonic Nov 2012 #25
Mr.Bill Nov 2012 #27
aletier_v Nov 2012 #28
Mr.Bill Nov 2012 #31
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #37
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #20
randome Nov 2012 #22
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #39
Taverner Nov 2012 #23
aletier_v Nov 2012 #26
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #38
easychoice Nov 2012 #30
kestrel91316 Nov 2012 #32
Panasonic Nov 2012 #33
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #35

Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:18 PM

1. Smoking "in public" is not illegal but "public places". There is a difference.

I was going to post the WA laws, but it got too long. Here is the WAC link http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=70.160

Here is a good summary.

http://www.smokefreewashington.com/laws/smokinginpublic.php
Smoking in Public Places Law

On November 8, 2005, Washingtonians made a healthy choice by voting to pass Initiative 901. The initiative prohibits smoking in all restaurants and bars by amending the state’s 1985 Clean Indoor Air Act. Today, the definition of "public place" includes bars, restaurants, bowling centers, skating rinks, and non-tribal casinos. The definition also includes private residences used to provide childcare, foster care, adult care, or similar social services, and at least 75 percent of the sleeping quarters within a hotel.

The Smoking in Public Places law also prohibits smoking within 25 feet of entrances, exits, windows that open, and ventilation intakes that serve enclosed areas where smoking is prohibited.

Washington was the tenth state in the country to implement a comprehensive statewide law prohibiting smoking in all restaurants and bars, and the fifth state to have a law that requires 100 percent of indoor workplaces to be smoke-free.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:01 PM

11. I believe there are 2 cities in California which have blurred the distinction...

In these cities, smoking is prohibited in parks, greenbelts and along public thoroughfares (sidewalks?).

IMO, the cigarette prohibitionists are trying to fit tobacco into a scheme that resembles marijuana's scheme (or what marijuana's new "legalized" scheme may become). That will surely be the desires of prohibitionists here in Austin, judging from their high-dollar ads.

The frontier of prohibition (tobacco/ganja) will be "getting at" users (the pipe dream of all prohibitionists). That is, to get at the homes of users, using, perhaps the bureaus of child protective services in an effort to restrict/punish users where a "child" lives under the same roof. There is evidence suggesting this as a future course of action when one considers the ganja prohis' efforts to get children to "turn in" their parents 20+ years ago. Very disruptive and damaging to families.

"The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior "righteous indignation" -- this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.
Chrome Yellow (1921)

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:36 PM

2. The ugly downside of state control of pot.

The state will dictate the type of cannabis that is legal.
It will dictate a hefty price for it.
And it will have a monopoly on it.

So if you want another type of pot, that the state does not sell, you risk breaking the law.

There will be a black market tho. Count on it.

Wonder how the state plans to sell it? In ready to smoke joints? By the ounce in "official" containers?
( that would be cool..buy one container, use it afterward for your homegrown pot container).

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:03 PM

12. How do you spell "prohibition?" "T-a-x." Already big biz for cigarette smugglers.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:46 PM

3. Very similar to liquor laws in most places

What, you thought this would be unregulated, tax-free, and without laws to prevent driving under the influence?

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:49 PM

4. Chipping away at the edges

 


There are countless laws that have become ignored or revised because they are almost unenforceable.

Two reasons why:

1) Violation is extremely difficult to prove in court.

2) So many people violating the law that it overwhelms the system.


Once the dam breaks, I expect the wrinkles will be worked out. Especially the driving impaired part. The legal challenges on this will be interesting.


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Response to mick063 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:37 PM

9. Excellent points

 

I read something from salon about the Colorado law. The crux was it would be relatively easy for the Feds to crack down on state licensed sellers in Colorado but the provision that allows people to grow small amounts in their home is simply not enforceable.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:12 PM

14. Hope so. The gerry-built RICO rationale reduced home-grown...

by enabling local/national LEOs to seize property, land, vehicles, etc. This helped create the drug Cartels become the political powerhouse they are.

Don't put it past the feds to arrest home-growers, seize the house, seize the land, seize anything remotely used in "processing" pot, and the horse (car) it rode in on. This is why you don't hear much about "Maui Wowie," "Gainesville Green," or any of the old expressions for home-grown: They were effectively dried up in favor of automated warehouses in some cities, grow operations on public land, and of course, the powerful cartels.

All in all, however, good developments: Taking the state-by-state approach is like legalizing lotto. No state will stand idly by and watch spending and potential tax money from Kansas end up in Colorado.

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Response to mick063 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:55 PM

24. Add jury nullification. As more people oppose prohibition more should simply refuse

to convict people under the drug laws. That's what jury nullification was included by the Founding Fathers for, to render bad laws useless.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:40 PM

5. Wonder if they will irradiate the marijuana

I know that the federally supplied marijuana via the Investigational New Drug program (you can read more about it in Prescription Pot) was zapped to prevent growing new plants from any seeds. Do you think the state supplied product will undergo the same treatment?

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Response to Revanchist (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:44 PM

6. I would hope at those prices that the state controlled product would be free of seeds

I don't think they are legalizing ditchweed.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:06 PM

7. Shitty law

 

Yikes. That's a shitty law. The one we got here in CO isn't perfect, but it's way better than that. I would rather not have "legal" weed than have the WA law.

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Response to TrueBlueinCO (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:33 PM

8. How is the law in Co. different than in Wa?

Yes, I agree with you. If I were still toking in Wa. I certainly would not bother with state controlled pot.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:13 PM

15. In CO, you can grow up to six plants in a locked room in your home

 

From NORML:

The vote in Colorado is awaiting final certification, a process that is expected to take about a month. After this approval, it will immediately become legal in Colorado for adults over the age of 21 to possess up to an ounce of marijuana and for them to grow up to 6 plants in a secure indoor space.

The state is required to adopt a legal framework for retail sales by July of 2013, the first marijuana retail outlets could potentially open as early as the start of 2014.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:19 PM

17. So, legal State sales plus home grown. Best of both worlds.

That plus gay marriage.
Yep...momentum is happening.

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Response to TrueBlueinCO (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:44 PM

10. Your law is better

 

And living within driving distance of your state i plan on spending more time there than my ususal once a year trip to RMNP. I also plan on retiring there because it's a great place to live for lots of reasons. but I digress.

Less than 20 years ago I never thought I'd live to see it legal anywhere. I don't think people in their teens and 20s truly grasp what a struggle this has been. Not saying you fit that age group just that we've come a long way since I took my first puff in the early 90s.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:16 PM

16. I hear you. Used to be two years to life in Texas before 1973...

But a lot of pain-in-the-ass 60s activists worked to reduce penalties. In all places, Texas has some of the lowest penalties for simple possession. And discussions about the "imminent" legalization of pot have been going on for over 40 years.

I like the Marijuana Policy Project. They take on state governments. Been a paying member for over 15 years.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:03 PM

29. I think the old anti-marijuana laws in Texas

were really anti-Mexican laws.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #29)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:13 AM

36. Very much so. Each prohibition has its racial/cultural bogie.nt

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:21 PM

18. Took my first puff in 1973..May.

Remember it clearly to this day, believe it or not.

70's were a great time...sigh.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:48 PM

21. Then you would have loved the '60s

Sure, weed was a felony, but no narc with any self respect would grow his hair long like a hippie. That's what made Serpico so unpopular with his peers. Well, his narcing on fellow officers didn't help, but back then narcs looked like Tagg Romney in a Nehru shirt, so avoiding prosecution was pretty easy.

As a bonus, the '60s also didn't have Kelso and Fez.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:22 PM

34. Funny how looking for the brown shoes still works sometimes.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:06 PM

13. kr

 

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:25 PM

19. I can tell you

that illegal pot growers in Northern California are ecstatic about the increased demand these new laws will open up. Get ready for higher prices on the black market.

By the way, the federal government is NOT going to let your state grow and sell marijuana. Count on that.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:48 PM

25. Um. We have, since 2000

 

and I have been a MMJ patient due to chronic back pain (herediatry spinal stenosis), and have not had trouble with the Feds.

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Response to Panasonic (Reply #25)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:53 PM

27. Is your state government growing it?

Or is it private growers? What I meant was the feds are not going to let state governments go into the MJ business.

This thread, and my post is about the new law in Washington that says the state will control production, sales and taxation.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:02 PM

28. Private, I believe. There's a grower in Kirkland a few miles from my brother

FYI, marijuana legalization (and legalization of prostitution) were predicted in 1991 in

The Great Reckoning, How the World Will Change in the Coming Depression,
James Davidson.

That as economic conditions worsened, governments would turn to "new types of revenue".

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #28)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:08 PM

31. So far, they've turned to gambling.

Some form of legalized gambling in 48 states.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:23 AM

37. I'm glad the feds won't "let your state grow and sell marijuana"

Plain folks can do that.

The feds will have factors of hydra-headed "enforcement" targets, not merely the state.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:43 PM

20. Decriminalize, not legalize.

Taxes will raise prices, regulated THC levels will kill off competitive production, and restrictions on where and how will land many in jail on worse felony charges than simple possession.

I like the Ohio law that makes simple possesion of up to 100 grams a $100 fine without a court appearance. Unfortunately, having a roach clip or even cigarette papers with possession of weed is the felony as having a dirty hypodermic needle. I'm not saying that's perfect, but a step in the right direction.

Keep the government out of our smoke.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:51 PM

22. That was always the best option, IMO.

In their desire for an all-or-nothing option, they have succeeded in making a bad situation worse.

Decriminalization would be a slower path to legalization but it would work better than this.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:35 AM

39. I agree

decriminalization would be the better way for now.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:52 PM

23. You are allowed to grow with both laws nt

 

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:49 PM

26. FYI, marijuana is already legally grown in WA.

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:26 AM

38. only if you're a medical marijuana patient

and I-502 prohibits growing for recreational use. Recreational users will be forced to buy from licensed business. Not that it will stop people from growing of course. It just won't be legal.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:05 PM

30. a friendly note From the Cops,lol

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2012/11/09/marijwhatnow-a-guide-to-legal-marijuana-use-in-seattle/

Yeah,there are warts on it but it is a start,we can move forward from here.Be patient.

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:21 PM

32. The zero tolerance and impairment limits won't pass court challenge, IMHO.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #32)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:28 PM

33. You're right - it won't pass Constituitional muster.

 

The major problem is knowing where to put the fine line between legally stoned and extremely stoned.

Colorado attempted to put 50 ng THC as a limit - too low for a MMJ patient - average about 200-300 ng THC (from what I know).

The legislation didn't even pass - not even the special session managed to pass it. So it'll be restudied in prep for the legalization part.

I suggest they drop the idea of DUID - hell, do the cops even pull over cigarette smokers for high levels of nicotine?

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Response to G_j (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:22 PM

35. these were the reasons I voted no on it

but it passed and now we will have to try to see if the legislatures can fiddle with it and make it better. They will have to change the 5 nanogram blood limit or they will just fill up the jails again. I also worry for all the 16-20 yr olds out there that will end up being charged. I think they will come down hard on 16-20 yr olds to try and prove to the federal government that the state can be trusted to regulate marijuana. We will see with time how it all unfolds.

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