Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:36 AM

sibelian (2,824 posts)

Maybe they'll grow up a bit.

Wouldn't that be nice?

What if we gave up going up against them symmetrically and just encouraged them to grow up a bit?

What if we stopped arguing with them on a point by point basis and side-stepped that and started helping them get over the emotional problems that lie at the centre of their damaged, painful, self-defeating and soul-crushing belief structures? What if, instead of telling them that they are mis-informed, with the maximum possible contempt, we actually fill the gaps in their knowledge, reassuring them that their reactions to the information they've been given are pretty normal under the brainwashing circumstances and their personalities, whilst needing some work and requiring some real information to grow around, could probably do pretty well if they gave an honest, grown-up try instead of supporting their self-image by constantly trying to feel like they're better than other people?

Or am I just being too nice, as usual?

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12 replies	Author	Time	Post
Maybe they'll grow up a bit. (Original post)	sibelian	Nov 2012	OP
Good luck with that.	polichick	Nov 2012	#1
Well, if you don't even try....	sibelian	Nov 2012	#2
We've tried for forty years - time to see the...	polichick	Nov 2012	#3
Sometimes they change their minds.	sibelian	Nov 2012	#4
Well, like I said, good luck with that...	polichick	Nov 2012	#5
I've had SOME luck.	sibelian	Nov 2012	#6
I'm not saying to be mean to them, but trying to change...	polichick	Nov 2012	#7
Hm, ok.	sibelian	Nov 2012	#8
There have been some interesting studies about...	polichick	Nov 2012	#10
thanks poli	sibelian	Nov 2012	#12
Everyone...	CJCRANE	Nov 2012	#9
Yes. This is exactly what I believe.	sibelian	Nov 2012	#11

Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:42 AM

polichick (30,375 posts)

1. Good luck with that.

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Response to polichick (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:45 AM

sibelian (2,824 posts)

2. Well, if you don't even try....

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Response to sibelian (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:47 AM

polichick (30,375 posts)

3. We've tried for forty years - time to see the...

...sociopaths and their willfully ignorant followers for what they are and keep the coalition against them strong.

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Response to polichick (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:49 AM

sibelian (2,824 posts)

4. Sometimes they change their minds.

If we stop trying to change their minds, they'll stop too.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:50 AM

polichick (30,375 posts)

5. Well, like I said, good luck with that...

I wouldn't waste five seconds on them. Let them learn by watching us in action.

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Response to polichick (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:55 AM

sibelian (2,824 posts)

6. I've had SOME luck.

And, also, back when I was a baby conservative, some people had some luck with me. All this subtextual talk across this board of just giving up on them feels very sinister and upsetting to me. I can fully understand how frustrating it is to engage with someone who is wilfully wed to ugliness, of course.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, but it makes me sad.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:58 AM

polichick (30,375 posts)

7. I'm not saying to be mean to them, but trying to change...

...their minds seems like a big waste of time. Some will learn by watching and overhearing things, but they just dig in when confronted.

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Response to polichick (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:01 AM

sibelian (2,824 posts)

8. Hm, ok.

So long as we're not just totally giving up on them, I guess that's all right. I'd find that really hard. I did do it after 9/11 and it ended up being painful for me. You're right about the digging in. They are sensitive types. I just wish I could have more faith in the people around me to be reasonable and self-critical. It's not as hard is it looks. I'm feeling a bit emotional about this.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:06 AM

polichick (30,375 posts)

10. There have been some interesting studies about...

...how these people use their "lizard brains" - the ancient fight or flight part of the brain - much more than those of us who are rational, "reasonable and self-critical." I honestly believe that some of them don't have the ability to connect the dots. And there have been studies about that too, how Republicans have difficulty with those parts of standardized tests that require them to rationally connect dots - they're unable to follow the thread.

Wish I had time to post links but I have to catch a plane.

Have a good weekend!

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Response to polichick (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:45 AM

sibelian (2,824 posts)

12. thanks poli

You have a good weekend too.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:02 AM

CJCRANE (13,339 posts)

9. Everyone...

has the seed of enlightenment within them.

It just takes the right conditions for the seed to sprout. With a little care and attention we can help it grow.

Enlightenment is inevitable. Timeframes may vary.

(A little bit of Buddhism for you early in the morning. It's a paraphrase of something Pema Chodron said).

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:45 AM

sibelian (2,824 posts)

11. Yes. This is exactly what I believe.

I am very worried about the way some of the discussions on this board are going. In the end it's bad for you to place yourself irrevocably against other people, whether you might get annoyed with being told it's bad for them or not. As I age, I am less and less enamored of the idea that the world can sustain the deep divisions between humans that politics maintains, particularly as great challenges to us wait for us in the future. I'm reacting instinctively, which probably means my ideas around this could be easily torn apart by the appearance of logic, but experience has taught me that that are long term consequences for even the smallest piece of contempt, and not necessarily for the object of one's contempt.

Sorry. I'm probably getting a bit inward-looking.

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