Democrats do not need to get in a prolonged debate about the expiring tax cuts.

[kentuck]

Just let them expire. Let the Republicans make their case in the media. We should have nothing more to say on the subject. They are ending.

To debate them every day in the media only strengthens the weakened Republican Party, just like it did with the healthcare debate. Democrats tend to lose these types of debates.

"All we are doing is asking the wealthy to pay just a little bit more" sounds weak and apologetic. The tax cuts are ending. Period.

The people do not need further education on this subject. There should be nothing to negotiate. After the tax cuts expire, we should debate the tax loopholes and try to pass a larger tax reform package.

Listening to the WH spokesman sounds like everything is still the same. There was no election. C'mon people! Show a little backbone.

It is just my opinion that they are being a little too timid.

[patrice]

1. K&R & Agreed!

[Tansy_Gold]

2. The debate -- and the TIM-idity -- has been going on since November 2008

When Obama announced his economic transition team a couple weeks after that election, the cry went up right here on DU that he would just let the booooosh tax cuts expire and that would be the end of it. And I swore up and down that it wouldn't happen and guess fucking what? It didn't happen.

[Hydra]

23. Sucks being Cassandra, doesn't it?

Keep doing it though- the truth needs to be heard, no matter how many people think it needs to be buried.

[Tansy_Gold]

29. It's why I have this:

And carry it in my purse at all times.

[Hydra]

34. LOL

Do you stamp that on people's foreheads? :p

[Tansy_Gold]

38. It started as a joke with my kids

At every "I told you so" moment, I'd tell them to put out a hand and I'd give them a virtual stamp on the back of the hand. Then one day I happed to see a little rubber stamp kiosk where you could buy an envelope and send it in for a custom stamp from either Rubber Stampede or Ink-A-Doo, I can't remember which. So I had it made. I've carried it with me ever since.

[kentuck]

24. Get back in line!

What are you doing??

[elleng]

3. Yes and he's trying to shut that guy up without being impolite, imo.

[freshwest]

31. A local newspaper yesterday reposted this from an earlier NYT editorial:

...Mr. Obama further ridiculed the budget’s deficit-cutting goal as “laughable” because it refuses to acknowledge the need for new revenues...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/04/opinion/calling-radicalism-by-its-name.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&

I want the automatic measure to happen that they forced on us. Look to see an ocean of bull from the right on how it will destroy the country. The GOP has also threatened to pull their Debt Limit game again. This is why this battle is far from over.

The country would have been over if Ayn Rand/Romney/Ryan were installed in the White House, but we were all saved by the strength of those who weathered harrassment for simply speaking their mind voting.

We should never coddle people who encourage not voting, and must change the way people vote state by state.

Reid announced there will NO changes in Social Security, no matter what the GOP tries to shove.

[southmost]

4. recommended!

[sadbear]

5. Yep we gotta get out in front of this issue and frame it first.

Republicans are willing to go over the "fiscal cliff" in order to preserve tax cuts for the wealthy. They're holding the country hostage AGAIN.

[kentuck]

6. Yes, we are so good at framing.

They should just shut the hell up and let them expire if the House does nothing.

[sadbear]

7. You don't think that approach would backfire.

The truth doesn't matter. We saw that in the fight of ACA. If they're able frame this as Democrats wanting to raise EVERYONE's taxes, or some other such nonsense, they will win. And we'll be forced to "compromise" away earned benefits without ANY tax increases.

[kentuck]

9. The media really proved themselves in this election.

They are not credible with their polls and partisan information. The "fiscal cliff" is presently a speed bump. If the Repubs threaten to shut down the government, with a prolonged debate, over raising the debt limit, what would you suggest at that time?

[sadbear]

10. Were we not successful in framing the most recent debt ceiling dabates?

The debt ceiling is intertwined with the "fiscal cliff" in that the both illustrate the main policy difference between us and them. In order to avoid "economic disaster" we are willing to make certain cuts if they agree to tax increases on the wealthy. But we all know that they won't budge. All we have to do is go out and say this EVERYDAY (is it not true?). But yeah, once we have consistently and constantly framed it, when we do "go over the cliff", the American people will have no doubt who bears the blame (even if it's not the disaster everyone makes it out to be.) A win is a win.

[kentuck]

12. How were we successful??

Our credit rating was lowered and the Senate was unable to put forth a budget. That is why they are having this debate because it failed.

[sadbear]

13. We just won Tuesday night.

America prefers our way over theirs'.

[kentuck]

14. Thank you.

For proving the point.

[sadbear]

15. But our way requires framing.

That's how we won.

[kentuck]

16. That's a mtter of opinion.

The President got 9 million less votes than in 2008.

[sadbear]

18. Carrot Top would have gotten that many votes in 2008.

2008 was about what a disaster President Bush was, not necessarily about how awesome Senator Obama was.

[kentuck]

20. Are you saying Carrot Top would have beaten Sarah Palin?

And John McCain?

[sadbear]

22. YES!

[kentuck]

30. And just think...

Romney got 3 million less votes than McCain and Palin. Carrot Top would have destroyed Romney, right?

[sadbear]

32. Now you're being silly.

Carrot Top would never run against Romney.

[lefthandedskyhook]

45. Call it the fiscal pothole

The Banksters want to fill it in with straw.

[RepublicansRZombies]

8. we need to demand a return to the tax rates of Eisenhower

We need to start making more demands, like demanding that they pay for the stupid ass war on terror.

This is bullshit they expect our children to pay for their lies and destruction FOREVER!

[99Forever]

11. We have already compromised to them.

They designed the tax cuts to expire and voted for that to happen. We are simply doing as they wish.

[RepublicansRZombies]

43. We have compromised way too long, now they blame us for what they did to the economy

If they insist on acting like three year olds, they need to be treated like three year olds.

And right now, the Republican party needs a time out, very badly.

They need to sit in the corner and think about what they have done.

We need to ignore their whining and do what is right for the country.

The adults are in charge now.

[99Forever]

44. Couldn't agree with you more.

No more capitulating.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

17. I agree 100%. nt

[rhett o rick]

19. Dems need to submit a bill immediately to replicate the tax cuts for the first $250k.

Force the Repubs to vote it down.

[kentuck]

21. I cannot stand to think...

That we have to listen to this "fiscal cliff" bullshit until the end of December. There is no reason for it.

[Hydra]

27. Sure there is

They're manufacturing consent for a cave in again.

The drum started the SECOND the election was over. They had this all crafted and ready to go.

"Grand Bargain" + Bush Tax cuts extension + continued FICA drop- expect to hear it until January.

[kentuck]

28. Dammit!

(My hands over my ears) I don't want to hear that shit!

[Hydra]

33. Me either

Especially since they're using this "Fiscal Cliff" argument.

"If we don't give the 1% what they want, they'll fire everyone!"

Gee, where have I heard THAT one before?

[kentuck]

35. Yes

We would rather live on our knees than die on our feet...

[Autumn]

25. There doesn't need to be any debate at all. None at all. Let them expire.

K/R

[kentuck]

26. Absolutely!

Unless the Republicans say they want to extend the tax cuts for those making less than $250K, then we MIGHT make a deal with them. That is the way to negotiate with these guys.

[JoePhilly]

36. The media is working very hard to push an immediate deal ... Obama doe not need one.

The media is hoping they can force a quick deal because as the "cliff" approaches, the GOP's leverage drops.

I think Obama can frame this to his advantage, and then let the GOP twist in the wind.

The Patreaus resignation should help Obama ... it will dominate the news for a few days ... and the cliff will come closer.

[kentuck]

37. Yes, the great media!!

That was so credible with their predictions and polls in the election that just ended.

We really need to debate this whole bunch of crap once again??

[JoePhilly]

41. Exactly ... the seem totally unaware of their own predictions.

I saw a Joe Scab panel praise Chucky for how "accurate" he was. I died laughing. Chucky spent WEEKS trying to explain how a 269 tie was likely, and how Romney had a wide array of paths to 270.

I've said for a long time that Obama pushed the bush tax cuts back for a reason. He could not let them all expire in term 1, the media would have said he "raised taxes on the 95% making under 250k" ... and if he broke that promise, he was never getting a 2nd term.

By putting the expiration date in the lame duck, he has the power. He can't run again. SO he has no political liability if they all expire. But the GOP congress can't vote against keeping those middle class taxes.

I'm hoping Harry proposes an extension of the middle class cuts during the lame duck. Make the GOP leaders say no to that. Squeeze them.

[closeupready]

39. K&R - No debate is necessary. Voters gave him a mandate.

[Puzzledtraveller]

40. I agree, we need to keep the against them ongoing as I truly believe

the want the sequestration, like scuttling the ship, at this point whatever they can let happen to make this administration seem at fault. So, we should sit on our hands too.

[2Design]

42. agree