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Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:27 AM

Krugman: Let's NOT Make a Deal

"Republicans are trying, for the third time since he took office, to use economic blackmail to achieve a goal they lack the votes to achieve through the normal legislative process. In particular, they want to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, even though the nation can’t afford to make those tax cuts permanent and the public believes that taxes on the rich should go up — and they’re threatening to block any deal on anything else unless they get their way. . . Mr. Obama should hang tough, declaring himself willing, if necessary, to hold his ground even at the cost of letting his opponents inflict damage on a still-shaky economy. And this is definitely no time to negotiate a “grand bargain” on the budget that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/opinion/krugman-lets-not-make-a-deal.html?hp

25 replies, 2354 views

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Arrow 25 replies Author Time Post
Reply Krugman: Let's NOT Make a Deal (Original post)
dynasaw Nov 2012 OP
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #1
humbled_opinion Nov 2012 #11
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #14
hfojvt Nov 2012 #17
Junkdrawer Nov 2012 #2
hfojvt Nov 2012 #19
garthranzz Nov 2012 #3
Doctor_J Nov 2012 #6
hfojvt Nov 2012 #22
Swede Atlanta Nov 2012 #4
magical thyme Nov 2012 #10
humbled_opinion Nov 2012 #12
butterfly77 Nov 2012 #5
lefthandedskyhook Nov 2012 #7
hfojvt Nov 2012 #23
lefthandedskyhook Nov 2012 #25
Doctor_J Nov 2012 #8
hfojvt Nov 2012 #20
femrap Nov 2012 #9
humbled_opinion Nov 2012 #13
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #15
oldbanjo Nov 2012 #16
judesedit Nov 2012 #18
hfojvt Nov 2012 #21
hfojvt Nov 2012 #24

Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:28 AM

1. Maybe now that he never has to run again, he will. n/t

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:57 AM

11. I am anxiously watching

because your "not run again" sentiment means that he can go one of two ways. I hope he chooses to stick to the principles of fairness that have been the hallmark of his campaign. You know I have teaheads at my job that are predicting that Obama will pragmatically adopt all the reforms that the right wants including ending Social Security as we know it...

I just laugh but will continue to keep a close eye and ear on things.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:08 AM

14. and maybe he'll kowtow to boner even faster than last time.

 

i'm not going to hold my breath waiting for President Obama to do the right thing this time around.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:26 AM

17. I am not sanguine about that

but here's hoping against all odds.

And trying to help Krugman's message get out.

If there is a deal it should be OUR deal and not THEIR deal. A FAIR deal not a RAW deal.

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:32 AM

2. First of many Recs....

Hang tough and we'll have a Democratic House in 2014.

Cave in and we may lose the Senate.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:43 AM

19. I am not sanguine about keeping the Senate either

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1763434

Also, note to Colbert - the word of the day is "sanguine".

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:41 AM

3. This is the first and most important test of the 2nd term

Even before it begins. Obama's campaign was based on fairness, and a pledge to let the upper class's welfare, aka Bush "tax cuts," expire. He need to be firm and keep that pledge. I think he will.

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Response to garthranzz (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:43 AM

6. Such a move would have a longer effect too

He needs to exhibit that he is not going to be stampeded this time around. Warren, Baldwin, Sanders, Grayson, and Whitehouse need to get as much face time as the DINO's and a lot more than Boner and McTurtle.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:38 PM

22. Has Baldwin made any statements?

She needs to promote herself too.

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:27 AM

4. I agree with several people's sentiments that Obama may now get tough

 

because he doesn't have to stand for re-election and maybe because he has a little stronger hand in the Senate with Reid saying he is going to take on the filibuster and a slightly larger minority in the House.

But nothing is going to change in the Senate rules until the new Congress convenes in January and this fiscal cliff is facing us as of Dec. 31st.

I am still concerned that Obama may try to achieve a grand bargain where he and other Democrats are willing to make changes to Medicare and Social Security, no let me rephrase that, to significantly reduce benefits in those programs and potentially others in exchange for some compromise on taxes. Oh and he would likely to agree not to make significant reductions in the military.

I hope I am wrong but I still have some concern. I think he is considering his legacy and if he could be the one to usher in a grand bargain that would be a significant accomplishment to put in his memoirs.

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:50 AM

10. one way or another, there will be a grand bargain as his legacy.

The question is whether or not President Obama now has sufficient anger at how he -- and all of us -- have been treated to stop negotiating by giving up everything before he reaches the negotiating table, and then being forced to give up more.

He has an opportunity to make another huge shift in our country...to start undoing the damage of 30 years of Reagan damage. As big a change as ACA, and as important.

He is bargaining from a position of strength and there will be a Grand Bargain. We need to let him know we are prepared to hang tough if it doesn't get struck on Jan. 1. Let the rethugs sweat it for a while.

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:01 AM

12. Yes

I have heard the teaheads at my job discuss this potential pragmatism. In fact they are sure of it and some openly advocate forcing Obama to become a hard right fiscal conservative in exchange for a grand legacy. I think if the President moves in that direction we should immediately and very vocally challenge him.

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:30 AM

5. Kick,kick,&Recommend!

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:44 AM

7. Krugman for Treasury Sec!

He's right on as usual.

My wish for the next 4 years is that the progressive banner will fly higher than ever before. The country could sure use it, and now the Laffer curve has been soundly disproved via deep empirical analysis:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/01/1125901/nonpartisan-government-agency-withdraws-study-on-high-income-tax-cuts-after-gop-complaints/?mobile=nc

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Response to lefthandedskyhook (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 02:08 PM

23. except that link says the government agency caved to Republican pressure

they are ready and able to hide the truth. Still haven't asked me to withdraw this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1539550

Mainly because nobody has ever seen it. It isn't even on the first ten pages of a search of "debunking the laffer curve"

Heck, I just noticed it got almost no replies when I originally posted it.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 03:13 PM

25. Good post

You might also enjoy this debate as I did:

http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/775-the-rich-are-taxed-enough

Laffer barely tooted his own horn in the debate. Does he feel the steam-roller headed for his silly idea, or was he just too intimidated by his opponents. Perhaps neither, but I found him to be uncharacteristically timid in that forum.

Yes, the Reckless party stopped the release of that study for a few days but my hope is that the dam is about to break against their entire foolhardy economic foundation. That's why I patiently explain to those who will listen why revenue increased when Johnson enacted Kennedy's top marginal tax decrease alongside EFFECTIVE loophole closures as JFK had planned. It is also compelling and persuasive to point out that businesses under higher top marginal rates tended to reinvest profits rather that squirrel them away offshore.

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:48 AM

8. An excerpt for the Kool-Aid drinkers

Mr. Obama essentially surrendered in the face of similar tactics at the end of 2010, extending low taxes on the rich for two more years. He made significant concessions again in 2011, when Republicans threatened to create financial chaos by refusing to raise the debt ceiling. And the current potential crisis is the legacy of those past concessions.


Many of us knew at the time that those concessions were not only bad for the economy, but that giving in to terrorists never makes them stop terrorizing.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:13 PM

20. by which you mean BOGers

whereas I thought Obama had the upper hand in 2010, I am not sure what more he could have done in 2011 once he gave away his trump cards in 2010 like so http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/165

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:49 AM

9. The Rich

 

Must Pay!!!!

And we all know that if the Repugnants hadn't gerrymandered their states, we'd have the House as well! We're not stupid.

So STFU, Orange Boy, and stop sucking Rich and Corporate c*ck! The 99% have had it. We want JUSTICE!!! Tax the Rich. End Corporate Welfare.

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Response to femrap (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:06 AM

13. Buoyed by the election

I think it is time for another demonstration of the power of the people. OWS part II.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:11 AM

15. yes- just as winter is starting is the perfect time for another ows sit-in in the park.

 

not.

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:21 AM

16. I think they should charge some of the Republicans

with "Sedition" that have already cost this Country a lot, make an example of some of them and the rest will work for this Country and not against it.

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:27 AM

18. I'd rather pay more taxes myself if it ensures the wealthy will return to the Clinton rate & I'm bro

ke. I'm sure others agree with me.

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Response to judesedit (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:39 PM

21. I actually WAS paying more taxes until the surrender of 2010

that is, instead of getting a refund, I added my refund to be applied to next year's taxes.

Effectively giving the USA a zero interest loan.

But after Obama caved, I said "screw it, give me my money now". And I wrote a little note to the IRS. "Ask not what I can do for my country, ask rather what people with ten times my AGI can do."

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Response to dynasaw (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 03:09 PM

24. dang, it has been hard work

trying to keep this on the front page of GD.

I guess it is not gonna make the home page.

I'd have like to see all three Krugman threads get over 200 recs.

This apathy from DU is probably gonna help pave the way for another comprosurrender.

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