HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » They shouldn't waste time...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:17 AM

They shouldn't waste time debating $250K.

They should just go straight to $1M and some sensible spending reductions and do it FAST. If they can do that, the economy would jump like a bunny. Consumer confidence would go up and the rank, bitter EMOTION that has been tearing this country apart would be dampened. Not eradicated, but dampened. And the GOP *might* stand a chance in 2014. Otherwise, people are going to be seriously pissed.

26 replies, 1374 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply They shouldn't waste time debating $250K. (Original post)
renie408 Nov 2012 OP
panAmerican Nov 2012 #1
99Forever Nov 2012 #2
LiberalAndProud Nov 2012 #6
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2012 #7
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2012 #8
99Forever Nov 2012 #12
hfojvt Nov 2012 #11
barbiegeek Nov 2012 #9
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #15
barbiegeek Nov 2012 #25
JaneyVee Nov 2012 #14
LeftInTX Nov 2012 #26
KharmaTrain Nov 2012 #3
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #4
jpljr77 Nov 2012 #5
hfojvt Nov 2012 #10
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #13
renie408 Nov 2012 #16
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #20
hfojvt Nov 2012 #22
jpljr77 Nov 2012 #19
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #21
hfojvt Nov 2012 #23
cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #17
Roy Ellefson Nov 2012 #18
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2012 #24

Response to renie408 (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:18 AM

1. Agreed; $250k is not much in some places, esp the East Coast

The tradeoff for that kind of income is often LONG hours, which thereby require expenses that lower-income earners do not have.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to panAmerican (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:23 AM

2. Hogwash.

$250K is damn good money everywhere in this Nation. There are literally millions of people surviving on less than 10% of that amount in every location you can name.

Get a clue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:29 AM

6. True. Even so, I'd be willing to start whittling at the higher end of the spectrum.

I know some here despise incremental-ism, but ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:30 AM

7. I agree with you that $250,000 is a lot of money no matter where you live

Having said that, there are areas of the country where a $250,000 income will enable you to buy a mansion, and other parts of the country where a $250,000 income will enable you to buy a so-so house in a so-so neighborhood. And everywhere in between.

I think the point was depending on where one lives, $250,000 might or might not make one part of the wealthy elite.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:30 AM

8. Agreed

I'm increasingly annoyed with this argument, especially since I grew up working class in NYC and making way less than that. Indeed, pretty much everyone in my Queens neighborhood made way less than that.

$250,000 / year as a household income is a lot. It's close to $5000 a week gross. I mean, really.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:43 AM

12. Damn straight!

Every time I this bogus crap being peddled, it pisses me off more. Didn't we just send an asshole packing for being this out of touch? Now we're supposed to buy this from those that claim to be Democrats?

I'll call this out every time I see it, and I hope everyone else does too. Thanks for having my back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:41 AM

11. thank you

and furthermore people don't seem to realize that the poor, poor middle class person making a mere $260,000 or $280,000 (by which I sarcastically mean )

they are only going to pay slightly higher taxes on their income OVER $250,000 - a mere $300 more in the first case (as the tax rate goes up by a mere 3%) and a mere $900 more in the second case. Gosh, I would think that a couple making $280,000 a year could afford another $17 a week in taxes even if they do live in San Franfriggingsisco.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to panAmerican (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:31 AM

9. Or California, Portlant, Seattle

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to barbiegeek (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:45 AM

15. my husband knows people here in the Seattle area who earn $250,000 a year

They are not hurting; nice houses, nice cars, boats, vacations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:13 PM

25. I heard cuz of Microsoft that its like Silicon Valley and too expensive

Million dollars for a 2 bedroom home and stuff like that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to panAmerican (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:43 AM

14. For Christ's sake, IT'S ONLY A 4% TAX HIKE.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JaneyVee (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:24 PM

26. I know!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:23 AM

3. Bargaining Chips...

Personally, I'm for lowering, not raising this...to 200k. Yes, a lot depends on where you live but you need to set a floor and meet somewhere in the middle. Also, this amount should depend on closing loopholes...passing the Buffet rule...that makes it harder for people like Willard to pay less in taxes than the majority of Americans.

President Obama's in strong shape here...it's the rushpublicans and media that are freaking out about "going over the cliff". For years the rushpublicans played "brinksmanship" games...now the tables are turned...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:26 AM

4. they started out strong. now they have room to negotiate

This administration is notorious for starting out weak on negotiating. They stayed strong on this $250,000. Now this gives them a strong starting place to negotiate from. I read a post this morning saying Shumer was starting at a low rate, but also read he is backing away from it. We need to start negotiations strong or the republicans will run us over like they always do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:28 AM

5. No. If Democrats are going to drop the $250k target, the next step is the top bracket, $388k

$388,351+, to be exact. That's the current 35% bracket.

I think that's a logical compromise for Dem leaders to get the deal done quickly. If they patch and punt, then $250k stays on the table for later.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:34 AM

10. If Democrats even think about $1,000,000 somebody is going to be seriously pissed

namely ME.

What they should do is go straight to $50,000. Everyone should agree that nobody making less than $50,000 should face a tax increase.

$1,000,000 is bullshit. If Obama agrees to $1,000,000 then we might as well have elected Romney or Bush, because that is basically a continuation of 99.44% of the Bush tax cuts.

What an awesome victory on Tuesday, eh?

Obama should suggest letting them all expire - and mean it. Then let Republicans come crawling to him with their "compromises" in order to avoid having them all expire. He has two upper hands
1. he was just re-elected, to his last term (ergo he has the public support AND he has nothing to lose)
2. they are going to expire automatically

He can use those hands to pound the Republicans into submission, or he can use those hands to slap his supporters in the face.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hfojvt (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:41 AM

13. I'm thinking the same. $50K is fine. The tax increase is minimal.

 

I ran two households on $77K (one of which was in Northern Virginia, the other in PA) and the tax increase we're talking about wouldn't have made a damn difference. I spent more on gas commuting between the two places (worked at home a lot) than the taxes would amount to. I was also paying rent on both places and the one in VA (on balance) cost 1 1/2 times the one in PA per month (including utilities). We're not even making close to that now, but we own our house outright (no mortgage) and property tax is the biggest expense involving the house.

Even that's not bad. I'd pay more if it meant the township would build a swimming pool in the expanded section of the park or eliminate the new activities fees they imposed on sports, music, and other such groups. Hell, my medical bills far outweigh ALL of the taxes I pay. They're the only debt I even have at the moment.

I've got good roads to drive on, an excellent local police and fire departments, working street lights, working traffic lights, a beautiful park, and everything is well maintained INCLUDING the storm sewer drain out front. Frankly, it's a damn good deal.

And yes, he should shoot low on the income limit. Let the GOP find the "middle ground" for once. Start at $50K, settle for $100 (a little lower than middle). At least it's a start. If I made a million a year, I really wouldn't give a shit about paying more in taxes. Hell, while we're at it, eliminate the FICA cap on the Social Security part. It's currently something ridiculously low like $110K. I pay the full rate on our income, why have the cap? Want to fix Social Security? Simple, isn't it?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HopeHoops (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:18 PM

16. You're kidding...$50k?

People making more than $50K should pay more in taxes.

Really. We make more than that (not much more these days) and have two kids and are barely able to survive. We live on the east coast. No, do not tell me that I could shop with coupons and weave my own clothing and raise chickens. We already have the chickens, I already use coupons...no, I don't weave our clothing. We get nearly everything second hand, instead.

$50k...yeah, that's gonna go over REALLY well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:00 PM

20. It's a good bargaining chip. The GOP won't go lower than $100K.

 

I used to live in NH and commute to Boston. I know the costs. I've lived on the east coast my entire life. Yeah, it's more expensive than Dumbfuckistan, but the increase isn't that much. Shoot low, let the GOP negotiate for once. There's never been a better opportunity for that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:03 PM

22. true

the rich always hate paying more in taxes.

Good thing the vast majority of people make less than $80,000, eh?

And the funny thing is, we won't be paying MORE in taxes, we will be paying the same rate we were back in 1999.

Somehow we managed to survive just fine then.

(Of course, the 89 cent gas probably didn't hurt, but I think we finally get better gas mileage now).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HopeHoops (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:41 PM

19. Please bear in mind that EVERYONE'S taxes will be increasing in 2013 already.

The payroll tax holiday will be expiring, and I'm pretty sure no one is going to push to renew it. Sure, it's small, but every single wage earner in the U.S. will have more deducted from each paycheck beginning next year.

Just remember that when throwing around numbers like $50k.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jpljr77 (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:02 PM

21. Perhaps you missed the point. While I'd be comfortable with that, it's a bargaining position.

 

It puts the burden on the GOP to come up with a lower number than $250K. They were their own worst enemy for the last two years. It's time to fuck with their heads a little.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jpljr77 (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:19 PM

23. oh boo hoo hoo

the accursed payroll tax cut was one of the worst ideas ever.

Again, we managed to survive just fine without it all these years. We won't all die when it is gone.

Here's some numbers to throw around.

Even in Connecticut, 40% of households make less than $44,000 a year.
In Maryland, 40% make less than $41,000 a year
Same in New Jersey
In Georgia, also on the east coast if memory serves, 60% make less than $48,000 a year
In Kansas, 60% make less than $56,000 a year.

Oh, and most of the payroll tax cut, about 73% goes to the RICHEST 40% of workers. http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxcompromise2010.pdf

My bet is that the accursed payroll tax cut will be renewed.

But I always think evil is gonna win.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:20 PM

17. there are NO sensible spending reductions unless

they are offset by spending increases

Every penny of the federal deficit is part of our already dangerously low GDP.

Every penny cut out of the deficit, in net terms, is a couple of pennies cut from the US economy. And that is not a good idea today.

Arithmetic and basic Keynes. No way around it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:32 PM

18. marginal

we need to do a better job explaining marginal rates. We need to focus on the fact that all wage earners will still receive the tax cuts on the first 250k of income. Too many out there are confused and think that suddenly everyone making more than 250K will be paying a higher rate on all their income.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Roy Ellefson (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:38 PM

24. Well said

And I'm surprised at the number of people that are suggesting that President Obama should go into negotiations planning to break a long-standing campaign promise regarding tax increases.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread