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Fri Nov 9, 2012, 06:23 AM

Here's An Insane Chart Showing Just How Much The Fiscal Cliff Is Being Hyped

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-fiscal-cliff-vs-debt-ceiling-2012-11

Here's An Insane Chart Showing Just How Much The Fiscal Cliff Is Being Hyped
Joe Weisenthal

As Calculated Risk (and many others) note, the term 'Fiscal Cliff' is a misnomer. The US economy is not going to fly off a cliff and implode on January 1 if we don't make a deal. There will be a drag due to higher taxes and lower spending, but much of that can and be wound back early in the year.

But the talk about the fiscal cliff has grown into a deafening roar, and here's proof that it's way out of proportion.

Matthew Fleury of Bank of America takes a look at the volume of articles mentioning The Fiscal Cliff and The Debt Ceiling:



As you can see, there's WAY more talk about the Fiscal Cliff than there was at the peak of the debt ceiling!


42 replies, 4781 views

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Reply Here's An Insane Chart Showing Just How Much The Fiscal Cliff Is Being Hyped (Original post)
jsr Nov 2012 OP
orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #1
barbtries Nov 2012 #19
joshcryer Nov 2012 #2
redqueen Nov 2012 #3
HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #6
redqueen Nov 2012 #7
HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #14
rock Nov 2012 #24
Cosmocat Nov 2012 #4
jbeing Nov 2012 #12
Kablooie Nov 2012 #38
baldguy Nov 2012 #5
spinbaby Nov 2012 #17
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #21
AzDar Nov 2012 #8
1-Old-Man Nov 2012 #9
Skidmore Nov 2012 #11
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #25
Skidmore Nov 2012 #10
dotymed Nov 2012 #13
Progressive dog Nov 2012 #15
greymattermom Nov 2012 #16
safeinOhio Nov 2012 #18
quaker bill Nov 2012 #20
RussBLib Nov 2012 #22
Liberal1975 Nov 2012 #23
Morganfleeman Nov 2012 #26
spanone Nov 2012 #27
GoCubsGo Nov 2012 #28
Morganfleeman Nov 2012 #29
GoCubsGo Nov 2012 #30
Morganfleeman Nov 2012 #32
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #33
GoCubsGo Nov 2012 #35
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #39
GoCubsGo Nov 2012 #40
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #41
MADem Nov 2012 #42
Oilwellian Nov 2012 #31
4_TN_TITANS Nov 2012 #34
BlueStreak Nov 2012 #36
Kablooie Nov 2012 #37

Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 06:32 AM

1. Sorry after 2008 HANDOUT, that gun to the head ploy lost it's pop.

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:45 AM

19. for thinking people, you mean

right?

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 06:47 AM

2. Let the cuts expire.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 06:53 AM

3. Go back to 50's era tax rates. nt

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Response to redqueen (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:12 AM

6. Game theory suggests at least 51% on the wealthiest entitites to prevent plutocracy

Once people are allowed to get rich without benefiting society more than themselves, their ESS is to push for complete control and personal self-interest.




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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:20 AM

7. 87% seems reasonable. The G8 should put the screws to tax haven countries, too.

Last edited Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:10 AM - Edit history (1)

They are jeopardizing the stability of the economies which enrich the parasites that utilize their money grubbing services.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:01 AM

14. 87% satisfies 'at least 51%' criteria

If the serfs had their pitchforks out, something like that might be possible.

As it is, many dems have no interest in harnessing the rich to social obligations that move everyone forward.

I think it will be an accomplishment just to have the bush tax cuts truly expire.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:08 AM

24. Nail, head

You get the picture!

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:02 AM

4. That's the play

No way the Rs will make any kind of deal in the next month that makes it worth extending them.

Let them expire, then put the onus on the insane clown posse (the House) to develop a bill to restore the cuts for lower income workers, with the Senate and President making it clear the higher rates will NOT be restored.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:49 AM

12. Insane Clown Posse

Perfect description with apologies to the actual Insane Clown Posse.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:11 PM

38. What are the chances Obama will continue the Bush cuts to get the House to agree on something?

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:07 AM

5. The GOP extremists built the cliff. Let them drive off the edge.

Cooler heads with calmly & carefully disassemble it - then get to work to find real solutions

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:24 AM

17. However...

...the media is already spinning this as Obama's fiscal cliff. We need Dems to keep emphasizing that the Tea Party built this.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:03 AM

21. Here's the problem with that

You're talking about people who just don't give a fuck if the country does go off a cliff. If the GOP doesn't give a fuck if the nation's credit rating gets trashed, they don't give a fuck if a family with an average income gets a $2,000 tax hike and the damage that will be done to the economy.

The GOP's only interest is protecting the low tax rate of people like Rmoney. If they can't have that, they just don't give a fuck if the baby gets thrown out. And while the prospect of them paying a political price for such a move might be a silver lining, I just don't see it ever happening. They will simply tell their constituency that it was all the Democrats fault and their constituency will believe them because you're talking about people who already have a proven track record of believing whatever they are told no mater how much it flies in the face of reality.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:30 AM

8. Remember way back when...the debt ceiling being raised was a mere formality, not a time to take

hostages and blackmail and terrorize? You know...the BUSH Administration?

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:43 AM

9. The stock market will not agree with your cavalier attitude about the "cliff".

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:47 AM

11. The stock market can be manipulated too.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:31 AM

25. To some degree, yes

Probably not to the degree that some think, but even if it could manipulate the stock market to a large degree you still don't solve the underlying problem of why the stock market would take a nose dive in the first place.

You can't just take $560 billion out of the economy and expect minimal impact, and the problem is you're not just taking that money out of anywhere, you're taking that money out of some of the places where it has the most impact to both the short term and long term health of the economy at one of the worst possible times.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:46 AM

10. Yup. It is being hyped and the media has the bullhorn on high setting.

I don't want us to let the Rs get by with framing the message. Have yet to hear one Dem push back on this and EXPLAIN what is going on. People need to be taught.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:58 AM

13. IF THE GOP still refuses to act in the best interest

of ordinary Americans, and if they allow our credit rating to be lowered again, they should be charged with treason. That is what it is..

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:04 AM

15. No deal without tax increases on the wealthy

It's time to let those POS screw the whole country if they dare. The President has to stand by his veto threat.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:21 AM

16. how does this work

if the House passes all the tax cuts and the Senate passes tax cuts for 250K and below. Does the conference committee get to decide? How do they decide who is on that committee?

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:31 AM

18. So we fall back into the same rates we had under Bill Clinton?

I don't remember the economy being all that bad.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:55 AM

20. It is not the taxes which are the problem

it is the trillion dollar sequester taken out of spending.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:03 AM

22. but the "fiscal cliff" is so EXCITING

...to the media....kinda like an allegedly close political race is.

Muckraking sensationalism garners more eyeballs, which is sad but true.

RussBLib

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:07 AM

23. So sick of this!

When they win, they can do whatever they want, threaten to end the filibuster pass legislation without consulting the minority party, lose the popular vote yet govern as if they had a mandate. They can raise the debt ceiling seven times for Bush explode the deficit but suddenly it's the most important thing ever! Over and over again the people's will is totally ignored and the Democrats just cave in. I know a lot of the reasons they do are valid our system is supposed to depend on compromise, but enough is enough! They can drag us into a war the majority of the populace opposed, go back on every deal, gridlock the process with complete abandon get their asses handed to them in a general election but once again it is up to the Democrats to compromise, and we probably will. It's like giving a child who throws a tantrum what they want and calling it a grand bargain. They lost, the people are done with supply side idiocy, it doesn't take Paul Krugman's intellect or knowledge to realize that the trillion dollar hand out in 2000 (which they SWORE at the time would be temporary) did absolutely nothing it created nothing except a windfall of capital that was invested abroad in other economies which yield a higher rate of return than ours.
I'm tired of all the fuzzy spinmeistering from the media, you don't need a PHd in economics to see that when the 400 richest Americans increase their collective wealth by 200 billion dollars in one year it is an indicator that this "horrible" economy Mitt Romney ran around shedding crocodile tears for is only horrible to some, but actually quite beneficial to others. So now after a five to six trillion dollar handout to the plutocracy (because lets face it, the war in Iraq was a handout of no bid contracts reeking of pork) we have to pay for this debt for our "children" by throwing seniors on the street and forcing their relatives to pick up the bill? Bullshit and more bullshit.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:34 AM

26. Well this fiscal cliff is inextricably linked to debt ceiling

...as they appear to be occurring contemporaneously. There may be a lot of hype but it's the real deal. 600 billion of tax rises and cuts is about 4 per cent of US GDP. Major drag on growth if it comes to pass.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:35 AM

27. our media will beat this horse to death

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:37 AM

28. Thank you. There is no "cliff".

It's not a cliff. It's a long downward slope. All these cuts and tax hikes will not occur immediately and all at once. They will happen over a period of at least a decade. This hype about a "fiscal cliff" is nothing but more fear-mongering in hopes that it will force the President's hand into giving these corporate assholes what they want: More tax cuts for the wealthy, an end to Social Security and Medicare, a withered, ineffective government with fewer regulations...

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #28)


Response to Morganfleeman (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:58 AM

30. Psssttt...

I'll take Paul Krugman's word for it, thank you very much:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/opinion/krugman-lets-not-make-a-deal.html?_r=0

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #30)


Response to Morganfleeman (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:14 AM

33. It sounds about as real as that "collapse"

 

of support for Obama after the first debate. Remember all those earnest pundits shaking their heads and looking at those scary polls? And then Obama won with the same plurality he had before the debates.

Frankly I don't believe that first debate made a dime's difference in Obama's popularity and I don't believe this "fiscal cliff" is anything more than a scare tactic.

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Response to allrevvedup (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:49 AM

35. Nor, do I.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. This "fiscal cliff" crap is just another attempt at scaring people into once again giving into the Grover Norquist cult, and giving more tax cuts for billionaires, and pumping more money into the Defense Department at the expense of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the rest of our government. I hope the President stands his ground this time.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:20 PM

39. Your appeal to authority doesn't support your assertion

From your own source, here is what Krugman says...

"...the looming combination of tax increases and spending cuts looks easily large enough to push America back into recession."


Itís worth pointing out that the fiscal cliff isnít really a cliff. Itís not like the debt-ceiling confrontation, where terrible things might well have happened right away if the deadline had been missed. This time, nothing very bad will happen to the economy if agreement isnít reached until a few weeks or even a few months into 2013. So thereís time to bargain.


What Krugman is saying is that while the confrontation isn't something that needs to be solved prior to implementation, it does need to be addressed relatively soon to prevent very serious consequences.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #39)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:45 PM

40. Yes, it needs to be addressed relatively soon.

I was not arguing that it doesn't. But, the negative effects of not dealing with the situation are not all going to happen immediately, i.e., it's not a "cliff". Again, most of the cuts would be happening over many years, i.e., a downward slope. So, yes. He DID make my point.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #40)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:54 PM

41. It just depends on your point of reference

If you consider a 10 year period, yes it is a cliff because many of the consequences will happen gradually over the next few months. If you consider a 1 year period, not so much.

You described it as a "long downward slope" which I took to mean a linear line from point A to B across a 10 year period. I wouldn't describe it that way and I'm not so sure Krugman would either. Most of the cuts, or at least the most significant of them will happen on January 1st if no deal is reached. Krugman is not saying this isn't true. He's just saying the impact from that won't be felt as quickly as the debt ceiling debacle.

The reason I'm not too worried about it is because $55 billion of the proposed cuts comes right out of the defense budget. As Krugman pointed out, the GOP's wagon is hitched to the military industrial complex. One doesn't go down without the other.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 02:02 PM

42. +1,000 !!!! nt

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:03 AM

31. I love Cenk's comments about the Fiscal Cliff

Why would we want to avoid the Fiscal Cliff and its $1 trillion in cuts, whereas "The Grand Bargain" has over $3 trillion in cuts. It would be insane for us to encourage any kind of bargain.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:29 AM

34. Of course it's back to a roar.

Is there any other beat the GOP marches to other than 'cut entitlements' ? Thank God Reid said that SS wouldn't be touched. I'm amazed at how many people don't know that it has nothing to do with the federal deficit.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:16 AM

36. Jiu-jitsu

The art of manipulating the opponent's force against himself rather than confronting it with one's own force.

That curve is nothing but opportunity. The more the public and press thinks it is real, the more Obama can make of this opportunity. He should be putting forward a solution that includes substantial economic stimulus, infrastructure rebuilding, investment in emerging industries, etc.

This is the biggest opportunity Obama will have in his second term. And understand he CREATED this moment. He arranged for the timing to happen such that immediately after the election we would have to confront the Bush tax cuts, the Sequester and the debt extension -- all at the same time.

Obama is on top of this one.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:09 PM

37. The right is terrified by the defense cutbacks.

They just know that by January 2 the Soviet Union will invade the US and install Hitler as our new socialist leader and all white Americans will be sent to concentration camps where they will be forced to worship the satanic bible.

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