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Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:16 AM

The federal government can give everyone in the country a voter id to use when

voting. If it can give everyone a social security number, this should be a walk in the park. The number would be valid throughout a persons lifetime and they would received it at age 18. Using it to vote twice in any one election would trigger an alert and an arrest.
Now to figure a way to make the election rules uniform throughout the states with changes impossible without putting it on a referendum to be voted on by the voters in that state.

34 replies, 1669 views

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply The federal government can give everyone in the country a voter id to use when (Original post)
shraby Nov 2012 OP
jberryhill Nov 2012 #1
CreekDog Nov 2012 #5
jberryhill Nov 2012 #6
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #13
CreekDog Nov 2012 #14
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #16
CreekDog Nov 2012 #18
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #19
CreekDog Nov 2012 #20
jberryhill Nov 2012 #24
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #25
jberryhill Nov 2012 #21
gollygee Nov 2012 #9
Romulox Nov 2012 #10
jberryhill Nov 2012 #22
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #27
Romulox Nov 2012 #29
jberryhill Nov 2012 #32
Romulox Nov 2012 #34
surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #2
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #3
53tammy Nov 2012 #4
peace13 Nov 2012 #7
shraby Nov 2012 #8
53tammy Nov 2012 #15
peace13 Nov 2012 #17
shraby Nov 2012 #26
jberryhill Nov 2012 #28
ananda Nov 2012 #11
jberryhill Nov 2012 #23
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #31
LaydeeBug Nov 2012 #12
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #30
SoonerPride Nov 2012 #33

Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:28 AM

1. Americans are resistant to national identification and registration schemes

We are dealing with a population in which a fair number of people, egged on by "news" commentators, believe the census is an evil plot.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:42 AM

5. I'm not --please don't speak for all Americans

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:48 AM

6. As you well know...

On those occasions where I speak for all Americans, it is a natural assumption that I am excluding you.

I should have a general disclaimer in my signature that says "except CreekDog", but by now I believed that to be implicitly understood.

As in, "I'm buying everyone on DU a beer!"

The "except CreekDog" just naturaly follows.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:10 AM

13. where did he claim to be speaking for ALL Americans...?

 

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Response to BlueMan Votes (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:11 AM

14. When he said "Americans are resistant to national identification"

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:14 AM

16. there are Americans for which that is true.

 

therefore it's a true statement.
he didn't say that it applied to all americans.

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Response to BlueMan Votes (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:39 AM

18. he meant it as representative of Americans

yes.

why say it if he's talking about 3 people in Bozeman?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:53 AM

19. 'Americans are resistant to gun control' is also a true statement.

 

because it is difficult to pass gun control measures in this country.
but it doesn't mean that all americans are against gun laws.

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Response to BlueMan Votes (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:55 AM

20. please don't speak for Americans again



i'm not resistant.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:09 AM

24. Americans want me to speak for them



(except CreekDog - see how that works?)

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:12 AM

25. ergo you would fall into the category of people who aren't.

 

Americans like pie.

is another example.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:04 AM

21. Americans re-elected Obama

Is that true or false?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:08 AM

9. They need to make a choice then

as to whether IDs are necessary, or are evil. It's got to be one or the other.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:08 AM

10. Except for SS #s, you mean? nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:06 AM

22. SSN is not a national identication number

...and is not exclusive to citizens.

Since we are talking about voting, I thought it was assumed that we were talking about citizens.

Non-citizens who work in this country have SSN's.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:17 AM

27. My first SS card, and all those that preceded it, had "Not to be used as identification" printed

 

right on the front at the top. In fact, this was one of the arguments against SSN back when it was proposed. Fascism was rising throughout the world and Americans were, quite justifiably, very leery of anything that smacked of 'papers please".

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:36 AM

29. Tell it to your credit card company or your local DMV. It is a de facto national id.

Since we are talking about voting, I thought it was assumed that we were talking about citizens.


I was referring to your earlier point, which was much broader than that:

Americans are resistant to national identification and registration schemes.

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Response to Romulox (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:18 PM

32. and that "de facto" use causes a lot of problems BECAUSE it is not a national ID


There is not a reliably unique one-to-one correlation between people and SSN's, and SSN's are not limited to citizens.

Some organizations consider it "good enough" for some purposes but my DMV, for example, most certainly does not have my SSN.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:01 PM

34. Unless new laws are passed, you will be required to present your SS card to renew your license

at some point.

It's all part of the "Real ID Act":

The REAL ID Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-13, 119 Stat. 302, enacted May 11, 2005, was an Act of Congress that modified U.S. federal law pertaining to security, authentication, and issuance procedures standards for the state driver's licenses and identification (ID) cards, as well as various immigration issues pertaining to terrorism.
The law set forth certain requirements for state driver's licenses and ID cards to be accepted by the federal government for "official purposes", as defined by the Secretary of Homeland Security. The Secretary of Homeland Security has currently defined "official purposes" as presenting state driver's licenses and identification cards for boarding commercially operated airline flights and entering federal buildings and nuclear power plants.

<snip>

People born on or after December 1, 1964, will have to obtain a REAL ID by December 1, 2014. Those born before December 1, 1964, will have until December 1, 2017 to obtain their REAL ID.

Document Verification Requirements

<snip>

Section 202(c)(3) of the Real ID Act requires the states to "verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document" that is required to be presented by a driver's license applicant to prove their identity, birth date, legal status in the U.S., social security number and the address of their principal residence. The same section states that the only foreign document acceptable is a foreign passport.

(all emphasis mine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act#Federally_mandated_standards_for_state_driver.27s_licenses_or_ID_cards


(sorry for the tedious edits...please visit the link for the complete original.)

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:33 AM

2. It isn't necessary.

Voter fraud is simply not a big enough problem to justify the expense of a system like that.

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:35 AM

3. And this will be forced on all of us, even those in States without 'voter id laws'?

Even in States that don't use 'polling places'? Why? Other States should simply make it easier for people to vote, like progressively minded States do. It is the 'ID' States that need to change.

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:38 AM

4. And make it free!

It would still cost less than the effort put forth to fight voter fraud.
In line to vote a worker was bragging about turning away a voter without ID and refusing to allow a provisional ballot and the other woman were applauding her effort. When I stepped in to disagree and explain how what she did was wrong one of the $#@% asked "just how hard is it to get a photo ID. I told her much harder than she thought and our efforts should be spent ensuring everyone has the right without obstacles.

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:49 AM

7. Not all people will have access to the records necessary to obtain an 'ID'

In Ohio in order to get a State ID you need a copy of your birth certificate, social security card and if you are a woman who has been married before you will need to have records of marriage / divorce papers to show any name changes along the way. This is not a walk in the park for most folks.

Be clear, any National ID is an effort to suppress voting rights. It has been proven that the theft is not from individual voters but suppression from SOS's, electronic machines and voter profiling. Let's focus where the problems are!

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Response to peace13 (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:07 AM

8. There doesn't need to be anything on the card except the name and a number. They did

it for social security, they did it for the draft, they can do it for voter id. No need for any other demographics. The second part of my suggestion was to make voting standards throughout the 50 states. Standard rules and regulations that cannot be changed without a referendum voted on by the people in the state, so no Secretary of State can do what Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida have done to their elections. Florida is so bad it's a national joke as is Ohio.

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Response to shraby (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:11 AM

15. +1

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Response to shraby (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:38 AM

17. Let me get this straight .....

you are going to give everyone who applies, a card. No citizenship required? To vote? On demand? To be of any value I would guess that initially the card would be issued with proof of citizenship. Hence the rig-a-ma-roll. Hence the voter suppression.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:12 AM

26. People don't have to "apply" The government knows who is a citizen and on that citizen's 18th

birthday a card would be issued to them..whether naturalized citizen or not. That number would be theirs to vote with for the rest of their lives.

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Response to shraby (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:25 AM

28. The US federal government does not know who is a citizen

There is no national registry of citizens in this country. If there is, perhaps you might identify which agency maintains it.

Because of a particular crankitude streak of our national character, we are unlike many other countries in that regard.

Go apply for a passport, give them your social security number, and say "look me up, I'm a citizen". That can't be done.

...Unless you are suggesting that we combine some kind of new "federal birth registry" with immigration records. Even then, the federal government does not know that any 18 year old presenting him or herself is the person whose birth was recorded in that registry.

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:09 AM

11. Just make it one ID: a SS card with a pic!

..

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Response to ananda (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:09 AM

23. Non citizens have social security numbers


A social security number is required to be employed in the US. There are many non-citizen legal residents of the US working here who have social security numbers.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:20 PM

31. It wouldn't be that hard to add a line

 

Citizen: yes/no.

Just like a drivers license qualifies what you're actually allowed to drive.

/does it make any sense for your SS card to be a piece of easily destroyed paper with no identification beyond name and number?

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:10 AM

12. How about....NO. nt

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:19 PM

30. I've been informed that this is literally impossible

 

A) because we don't have it already, thus proving we never can and B) because even free cards will cost at least 15 bucks. . . for some reason.

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Response to shraby (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:20 PM

33. There is no voter fraud.

Thus no need to ID anyone.

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