HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I find it deeply unnervin...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:12 PM

I find it deeply unnerving that so many voted for Romney. I just...do.

In some ways, it was worse than the folks who voted for Bush in 2004. With McCain, I dunno. That was a whole 'nother brand of misguided. But the people who voted for Bush in 2004 and the folks who voted for Romney yesterday...

I just don't know who these people are. They are strangers, who're either dangerously ignorant or subscribers to dangerous ideologies.

And there are so many tens of millions of them.

In my secret happy place, the one which involves not just Democratic success but success for everyone in America, I hope some large portion of those who voted for Romney did so out of duty to party and not out of identification. Reasonable conservatives- people who are against big government or issues voters, such as those who can't identify with the Democratic party because of our pro-choice stance or something like that.

I know there is some portion of that group who voted for Romney who do not genuinely hold the toxic ideas that he and Ryan stood for...but the day after an election, you can't help but wondering how many on the other side cast that vote out of desire or "necessity".

It's a cold thought to think of living in a country where around half the people are smiles and nods about what Romney truly stood for.

It really is.

That's your ghost story for the night.

PB

32 replies, 1870 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply I find it deeply unnerving that so many voted for Romney. I just...do. (Original post)
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 OP
quinnox Nov 2012 #1
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #4
nadine_mn Nov 2012 #7
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #10
tavalon Nov 2012 #16
tpsbmam Nov 2012 #21
tavalon Nov 2012 #22
tpsbmam Nov 2012 #30
EC Nov 2012 #2
K-Matt Nov 2012 #3
ananda Nov 2012 #5
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #11
gtar100 Nov 2012 #12
tavalon Nov 2012 #17
riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #32
uppityperson Nov 2012 #6
tarheelsunc Nov 2012 #8
pointsoflight Nov 2012 #9
Rhiannon12866 Nov 2012 #13
former-republican Nov 2012 #14
PoiBoy Nov 2012 #15
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #18
felix_numinous Nov 2012 #19
KG Nov 2012 #20
stuntcat Nov 2012 #23
argiel1234 Nov 2012 #24
JBoy Nov 2012 #25
Mira Nov 2012 #26
kentuck Nov 2012 #27
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #28
Zoeisright Nov 2012 #29
Agony Nov 2012 #31

Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:17 PM

1. I'm not surprised a bit

 

Romney was very slick, and white bread, and an executive type that a lot of the same people who voted Bush, they would have voted for Romney in a heartbeat. Hell, half the country voted for Bush and re-elected him, and he was a totally obvious incompetent and a complete doofus, so nothing surprises me about some of the folks in our country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:21 PM

4. It's just that EVERYTHING about Romney exuded the predator class, predator capitalism.

It just freaks me out that essentially people could vote for a fucking raptor for president.

I am really searching to understand what kind of dynamics exist in America for people to do that. You do have a point about being slick and white bread and probably, for a lot of typical conservatives, the kind of guy they'd want to be.

But you know they know in the back of their mind that Romney and the kinds of things he really stands for would gut them (those voting for him) and their families in a heartbeat if profit were involved.

PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:36 PM

7. As long as it was a white raptor

Racism had a whole lot to do with the fact 89% of his vote was white

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadine_mn (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:49 PM

10. Yeah, based on what little I know of the demographics of this last race and the demographics...

...of 2008, I'd say there's a lot going for an assertion like that.

I'm reminded of this image, which I stumbled on weeks ago while looking for something else:


I mean, doesn't that just encapsulate everything in a way?

I have no idea who the elderly woman is but I've looked at that image...the look on her face, the pose, the caption.

I grew up in a part of America where I knew people like that.

"Just don't be black!"

PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 04:40 AM

16. Yeah, my grandparents were racists, too

But their granddaughter isn't and the next generations after me are almost without understanding of what racism or homophobia is and so on. Racism is dying, slower than it should, honestly, but it is dying with each elderly racist who dies and hasn't succeeded in passing on their racism.

I loved my grandparents. Heck, they raised me from age thirteen when I decided getting away from my sociopathic father was the way to go. But the first time I heard my grandfather say n........, was also the last time because I told him never to say that word in my presence again. And he never did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tavalon (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:57 PM

21. I wish I could agree with you but I just can't

It's more subtle there much of the time, but it's there. I'm a NYC WASP. I a NYC'er by birth and most of my youth -- that was definitely a multicultural upbringing and I never heard it at home, even from Mom who came from a Southern family -- my grandparents were pretty good but had their limits. I had lots of African American friends and one evening was having a conversation with my grandfather (grandmother had died by then) and asked him if my close friendships, sleepovers, etc bothered him -- he said no. But I then asked him "what if I married a black man" -- "I'd never speak to you again," was the answer I got.

Anyway, as an adult I've lived in many different states. I'm now in NC and hear some of it, all of the subtle variety. But I heard more of it when I was living in Chicago, Springfield (MA) and a couple of other northern cities. I was horrified by some of what I heard when I was living in Chicago! The immediate area where I was living tended to be blue collar whites and frankly, I was astonished when some of the most racist things I'd ever heard came out of the mouths of neighbors (including the "n" word).

The same was true to a MUCH lesser degree in Springfield -- I had really nice neighbors but damn, as I got to know them their defenses slipped a little and I guess they thought they were in like company. Their racism was much more subtle but it was there nonetheless. That's been how I'd categorize some other Northern places I lived. (An exception was Madison, WI, which I loved and I never heard anything like that around there.)

The racism -- blatant, horrific and subtle varieties -- that's aired itself since Obama's first election has been horrifying. I mean, look at the work of the SPLC & NAACP on the surge of "patriot" groups and hate groups since Obama was first elected. Most of those are young and young-ish -- these aren't senior citizens doing this. As far as I'm concerned, most of the Obama hate comes from racism. Look at the Republican legislature -- to outright say their goal was to make Obama a one-term president and to block everything he tried to do? To yell out during a SOTU speech? All of the instances of blatant disrespect on the part of Republican "statesmen" is something I've never witnessed in my 57 years on earth. And I frankly don't think a lot of that would have happened if he were a white politician with whom they disagreed.

The good thing is that 40% of us who voted for Obama twice are white. That's where you see the difference. But Romney getting the huge majority of white votes is due to a number of factors, and a significant percentage of those votes are due to the simple fact that he's African American.

Yep, I sadly have to disagree with you. And it does make me incredibly sad that it's still so present & virulent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tpsbmam (Reply #21)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:44 PM

22. I hope I'm right about this

but I fear you may be the right one. And if so, what can be done? Why is this so intransigent?

You know, it's funny (not ha ha, but ironic) that in the NICU when a really early baby is expected we ask for it to be a girl for girls are stronger than boys and we ask for it to be black for black babies are stronger than white babies. The code name for our worst fear is a wimpy white boy. If not for economic differences, I suspect that would hold throughout the lifespan. Could it be that whites hold prejudice against blacks because they fear (possibly correctly) that they are stronger than them? Just an idle thought I've had from time to time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tavalon (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:55 PM

30. It does seem incredibly intransigent.....

The part that surprised me was the degree to which it came out in "well"-educated Republicans. Hell, I'm as WASP as they come -- blue-blooded heritage on Mom's side springing from English royalty, among other high-falutin folks in her background. Dad's background was working class Scottish & Irish until his own father became a very successful self-made man by working his way through college, going to grad school at night while working full-time, etc. Dad grew up in NYC and his family's egalitarianism showed later in his fight for civil rights -- my parents marched with MLK & were at the march on Washington, among other things. And Dad was a Republican! An incredibly liberal Republican, but a Republican nonetheless. And because of that, I knew LOTS of Republicans growing up -- totally different breed from today, at least the ones I know and knew. The racism that came out in Republicans sitting in office in Washington really shocked me -- I truly didn't expect that. But for me, it was undeniable.

I think you hit the word -- fear. And now that whites are becoming the minority, the fear is escalating. I think that's part of what the surge in hate groups and hate group membership is all about. It scares the hell out of some whites, or maybe a lot of whites. And for those people, it frankly should! Their world is really getting shaken up. They've felt comfortably ensconced in white privilege, as much as they claim that doesn't exist. It most certainly does exist and they can see that slipping in the future when more and more of today's minorities enter leadership roles, be it in factories or offices or political positions or legal positions.


How does it change? Oddly enough, I think this election may have forced some change. People saw the power of minorities in this country and the influence that can be exerted when they grab that power and use it. The Republican "leaders" aren't getting it in their rhetoric since the election. Yes, they get that their representation and appeal is too white, but they're totally not getting why that is. I hear nothing about looking at their policies and looking at their own racism, though I don't expect them to do that publicly -- I sure hope it's happening privately! The racist undertones to so much of the campaigning was disgusting this go round, and if they don't look at themselves and their behavior over the last 4 years, the GOP is doomed. And the way they're talking publicly now, they think it's as simple as putting up a minority candidate or a woman, like they did with Palin. Duh! They can put up all of the Herman Cains they want, they aren't going to get minority votes that way! It's not about skin color, it's about policy and actions. It's just further racism on their part if they think that African Americans will vote for someone just because they're black -- wrong, assholes! But that's the way they're talking now. What concerns me is at the hate group level, it could lead to more violence as they really freak out -- they don't like the fact that the country doesn't see things the way they do -- they're getting left behind and shut out. One of the things that made me happiest in this election is that we told the bigots of all kinds to go to hell! I love that! I did sort of think it'd have been interesting if Herman Cain had ended up being the Republican nominee.....what would all those white Romney voters done then?

So, there's gonna be quite a period of adjustment, maybe with some escalation of violence in there, but I think the white bigots are going to have to adjust for survival's sake. This country isn't an Anglo-Saxon country, as much as they'd like to believe it is. I don't think we'll ever get rid of the bigots, but I do hope they become increasingly in the vast minority.

That's sort of how I'm looking at it now, but ask me tomorrow -- I may totally change again! I wish I did have some viable answers and had a crystal ball that would really tell the future. I think WE keep politically active and keep trying to educate people, one at a time if that's what works, and keep pushing forward -- the racists will just have to catch up or be increasingly more isolated in their little KKK worlds.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:19 PM

2. I agree.

I don't understand how people can accept being made a fool of and even ask for more.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:21 PM

3. Well the important thing is

 

they were punished with defeat!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:33 PM

5. I don't.

I'll tell you why.. it's because the economy is not doing that great,
and a lot of liberties have been trespassed on under Obama.

We're not very objective right now because so much was at stake
in preventing a Romney win. We succeeded, and I think most of us
like Obama on a personal level, I know I do, but there are other
perspectives and concerns that might make it easier to understand
the other side's votes.

Some examples. Obama increased the deficit, and he did not solve
the tax problem. He increased military aggression in the ME in ways
that might be hard to call wars because of drones but are just as evil.
He might well start a war against Iran and keep blaming China for the
fact that the USA cannot sell anything. He might also step up efforts
to get Assange. He'll continue to keep Gitmo open, and with those drones
and stealth ops he'll probably keep attacking civilians in the ME in the
hopes that he'll strike some people off his personal kill list. As for protest
and Occupy, his admin fostered a seriously oppressive police state. As for
reforms, well, here at home the House will continue to block whatever he tries
to do, whereas Romney's reforms would have been blocked by the Senate, not
much difference there really.

People probably didn't believe that Romney would be so bad, especially
after that first debate where he appeared more moderate and human.
I know a lot of people felt that he would handle the economy better
than Obama. I didn't think so but a lot of people did... a lot of reasonable
non freeper people.

We here know the perils of a Romney presidency because of the influence
of big money and hate, but his governing history as a moderate carries
a good bit of weight and respect with it. I think he still wanted to be
moderate but wasn't allowed to. Good conservatives probably saw this
good in him and wanted to believe the best. Maybe we know better, but
then maybe we don't know everything either... who knows.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ananda (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:00 AM

11. Hunh! You know, at first you lost me but then you wrote that sentence about...

..."a lot of reasonable non freeper people" and at first I rejected that too. And then I got to thinking about a friend of mine. A good guy. Usually votes Democratic but I know he voted for Bush, at least in 2000. Not a crazy freeper type. The thing is, he views the world a lot like you said- looking at somebody and maybe not liking what we have currently and thinking "You know, this guy doesn't look so bad. Maybe I'll give him a shot?"

I follow politics too closely to buy into that and he and I have rubbed each other the wrong way on occasion because of it.

But your last paragraph, I could see my friend maybe going Romney this year. I kind of doubt it but I haven't talked to him in a month or so. He's more right-leaning, though, and so doesn't have a LibGrudge like I do against Obama, so honestly, he was probably more likely to have voted for the President simply because he didn't consider those things you mention in the first couple of paragraphs to be that big of a deal.

But I see your point and I do know people like that.

PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ananda (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:01 AM

12. A lot of those reasons are why progressives have issues with Obama, not necessarily conservatives.

I've never heard conservatives lament about keeping Gitmo open (worried about closing it, yes; but not any concern for the people there or the possibility of injustice). Their worry about the use of drones in the Middle East is that it isn't enough...if they even are aware of it. And no complaints about the oppressive police state because that is targeted mainly against progressive movements. Discussions of right-wing violence are quickly hushed.

Your point on the deficit and taxes is about as close as it gets to the conservative heart and mind. But they are driven by slogans like "tax and spend liberals" and shit like that. If they were honest about the deficit and US debt, blame would include republican's never-say-no policy to defense spending and the amount of unnecessary money spent on corporate subsidies that benefits nobody but the recipient. But they don't. They focus on welfare programs instead.

You make a lot of good points on issues with the Obama administration, but they just aren't the reasons that I've heard conservatives give for not wanting him as president. But your last paragraph I'd say is pretty spot-on based on some conversations I've had. They really did believe he would be moderate, even after he went all tea-party on them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ananda (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 04:45 AM

17. I didn't believe that Bush would be so bad since he was such

A useless governor. Boy, I learned quickly just how wrong I could be.

I think I would feel like the original poster except for one person I know. She's not a personal friend but a well respected fellow nurse. It was clear that we were polar opposites politically in these last few weeks so we just avoided talking politics. Yeah, I find her politics misguided but she's still the good hearted person I have enjoyed working with these last few years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ananda (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:00 PM

32. Wow. Great post and agreed 110%.

Segueing onto the drone issues, is the weird reality that most RWnuts really, really do believe Obama has been too apologetic in foreign affairs, exposing the US to harm by appearing "weak".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:33 PM

6. Me too. Good writing. It really is. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:44 PM

8. Sadly, I think there was a ton of racism in this election

The surrogates for Romney have tried to subconsciously paint a picture of "you gave the black guy a chance, it's OK to say he did a poor job and put a white guy back in." I honestly think 30% of the Republicans would have voted for Hitler if he was on their ticket this year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:47 PM

9. Well, keep in mind that many have been brainwashed...

...by conservative media. I'm sure all of us have friends or family members who are genuinely good people, yet they voted for Romney despite his positions, lies, and deceit. They fell into the trap. They believed (and still believe) the crap spewed on Fox and by Rush Limbaugh. Perhaps they should know better. But really, they are very much victims, too.

IMO, the 48% of the country who voted for Romney are not the problem. It's the much smaller percentage of people who are deliberately lying and manipulating them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:09 AM

13. I really do not get it, either. Scares me witless...

All I can imagine is that they just woke from long comas or they're space aliens who just landed on earth...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:21 AM

14. The economy had a lot to do with it

 

Hell I voted for Obama but for me to say now I know everything will be fine with the economy would be a bit naive.
We had the market tank 300 points today . We have the fiscal cliff and whether the President decides to deal with the devil
or not is up to him.

We have one of the largest free trade bills passed that is sure to out source more jobs.

We have the President that at one point is going to have to deal with Iran going forth with a nuclear weapon.

This is no fucking picnic for the President .


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:22 AM

15. Some really good points in this thread...

also, the power of the propaganda machine passing itself off as media cannot be discounted, IMO...

something really needs to be done about the media whores...







Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 04:59 AM

18. Who are we kidding? Many of those who voted for Romney held their noses while doing so out of

 

pure racism.

In their minds, any white (no matter how odious or reprehensible) was better than Obama SOLELY BECAUSE OF SKIN COLOR.

I don't credit any non 10%er who voted for Romney with any motive other than racism. It's just that simple.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:29 PM

19. Republicans need an intervention--

in order to help them face their addiction to Fox and hate radio. They have to be talked down and weaned off of their cool aid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:55 PM

20. my mom votes gop, even tho it basically stands against almost everything believes in...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:51 PM

23. honestly, it's the prefect example of why I do not have faith in Humanity

and why I'm so glad my years are half over. Yes, some people are great, magnificent, but as a mass we are a terrible species who'll do so much violence to the planet and to each other that the Good some try to do will NOT make up for it in the big picture.
Most will doubt this, but get back to me in 2060 about how great Humanity's done. Really.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:56 PM

24. believe me there are NOT tens of millions of them

 

the reason is there is a whole industry of right wing TV media, electronic voting machines, hate radio, paid infiltrators to post on yahoo, cnn message boards, etc

believe me its a coordinated effort to make it seem like its a divided country.

The fact is WE outnumber them 10-1, and if a true civil war ever broke out it would become apparent quickly how propagandized this country is.



Unfortunately for us, they have amassed all the money and control much of the military/police/prison complex.

Its still not enough as we outnumber them greatly, and THIS scares them the most

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:01 PM

25. I think Romney's constant flip-flopping was a deliberate strategy

It allowed the gullible, at some point during the campaign, to have heard what they wanted to hear. Their ears perk up when they hear what they want, then they tune out when he's saying the opposite.

A perfect approach for the low-info voters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:02 PM

26. You are expressing what causes me great consternation as well n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:33 PM

27. Also...

Blind partisans. They did not know what he stood for or what would be the results of their votes. They voted simply because he had an "R" by his name, as I am sure many "D's" did also but the D's knew a hell of a lot more about President Obama than the Repubs knew about Romney. He was a strange bird.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:34 PM

28. a lot of them didn't vote for romney- they voted against Obama.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:50 PM

29. I know. They're nuts.

Unfortunately, many of them are in my family. I just don't understand how they can be so stupid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:00 PM

31. Low Information Voters

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread