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Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:46 PM

 

Should President Obama pardon Siegelman? When so as not to waste capital doing so?

29 replies, 1175 views

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Reply Should President Obama pardon Siegelman? When so as not to waste capital doing so? (Original post)
graham4anything Nov 2012 OP
zazen Nov 2012 #1
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #18
GentryDixon Nov 2012 #2
d_r Nov 2012 #3
JI7 Nov 2012 #4
MADem Nov 2012 #5
Vincardog Nov 2012 #8
MADem Nov 2012 #12
Vincardog Nov 2012 #14
starroute Nov 2012 #17
MADem Nov 2012 #19
ramblin_dave Nov 2012 #16
MADem Nov 2012 #22
lucca18 Nov 2012 #6
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #7
Blue Meany Nov 2012 #9
diabeticman Nov 2012 #10
cherokeeprogressive Nov 2012 #21
diabeticman Nov 2012 #24
Hissyspit Nov 2012 #26
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #27
Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #11
Brother Buzz Nov 2012 #13
SalviaBlue Nov 2012 #15
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #20
MADem Nov 2012 #23
diabeticman Nov 2012 #25
Jake2413 Nov 2012 #28
graham4anything Nov 2012 #29

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:51 PM

1. Immediately!! k&r

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Response to zazen (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:20 PM

18. Or sooner. nm

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:53 PM

2. Yes.

And he should not wait to the end of his term. Screw tradition. Right is right.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:53 PM

3. absolutely

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:54 PM

4. yes

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:01 PM

5. What federal crime is he accused of?

I don't think POTUS has standing to pardon him.

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Response to MADem (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:11 PM

8. The POTUS has the standing to pardon anyone for anything. He should pardon IMMEDIATELY

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:18 PM

12. No he doesn't. He's not the King.

Every few months, someone suggests this. He does NOT have the AUTHORITY to pardon the guy. The GOVERNOR does.

Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states as follows:

The President…shall have the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.


In general, a pardon is the act of forgiving a crime. A pardon nullifies punishments or other legal consequences of a crime. However, a presidential pardon does not expunge a crime or remedy the past act. In other words, the crime can still be taken into consideration against the wrongdoer (e.g. on a job application or when giving a sentence for a different crime). For example, if the pardoned person is later tried for a similar crime, the pardoned crime may be taken into consideration when giving the sentence for the new crime. The pardon does not blot out the past.

One key thing to keep in mind: Presidential pardons only apply to federal criminal acts against the United States.

So, the president cannot pardon a person for violations of any federal civil laws or state criminal or civil laws. For example, if a person commits armed robbery at a local gas station and is convicted under state law for armed robbery, that person cannot receive a presidential pardon. Why? Because that person committed a state criminal act, not a federal criminal act. However, if that person also robbed a U.S. post office (a federal facility), then he or she could petition the president for a pardon of the robbery at the U.S. post office.


http://www.legalflip.com/Article.aspx?id=61&pageid=

No pardon from POTUS. He doesn't have standing.

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Response to MADem (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:53 PM

14. Bullshit. The only limitation is no pardon for "cases of impeachment" how else can you explain all

the Turkeys pardoned on Thanksgiving?

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Response to MADem (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:05 PM

17. Siegelman was convicted in a federal court

I'm a little surprised that you'd be asserting otherwise without having taken 30 seconds to check.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/08/don_siegelman_sentenced_to_78.html

A federal judge this afternoon sentenced former Gov. Don Siegelman to 78 months in prison.

U.S. District Judge Mark Fuller handed down the sentence -- 10 months less than the 88 months he originally gave Siegelman -- after a day of emotional testimony during the former governor's resentencing hearing. He also sentenced Siegelman to serve three years on supervised release and to pay a $50,000 fine.

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Response to starroute (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:38 PM

19. I stand corrected--I was under the impression that his crimes were against the state.

That said, I wouldn't hold my breath that he'd pardon the guy soon. Why? He can't.

The rules for federal pardons make that problematic. The guy still has lots of time to serve; pardons usually come AFTER the sentence is completed (or, in the unusual case of Marc Rich, before the Feds could even get their hands on the guy to drag him to the bar of justice). Once they are in the pokey, though, they're stuck there unless their sentence is commuted. Pardons come after they are released and back in society.

Apparently, though (something none of us bothered to check on in weighing in on this thread) he's not even asking for a pardon--he's asking for a commutation of his sentence.

I don't think that will happen any time soon, either--maybe in four years.

Siegelman hopes his commutation request will stand out in Washington because there was never an allegation that he pocketed any of the $500,000 and because of disagreements between different courts over when a campaign contribution becomes a bribe.

...Petitioning for a presidential commutation is more difficult than getting a presidential pardon. The Justice Department reports Obama has approved 22 pardons out of 1,143 requests. But pardons can't be issued until after a federal prisoner has completed a sentence, which wouldn't do Siegelman any good at this point.
http://enewscourier.com/statenews/x946181671/Siegelman-has-long-odds-on-Obama-commutation/print

There are no appeals to commutation requests. If the appeal is turned down, that's it. No second bites of the apple.

Look, I feel badly for the guy--I think he got a raw deal. That said, I don't see him getting out of jail any time soon. I don't see Obama commuting his sentence early in his second term, either.

Had his lawyers negotiated some kind of house arrest arrangement where he agreed to wear an ankle bracelet during all that time he was out on appeal, he'd be done with this shit. THEN he could be asking Obama for one of those pardons.

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Response to MADem (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:59 PM

16. He was convicted in federal court - read this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Siegelman

After the expiration of his governorship, two of Alabama's United States Attorneys began a criminal investigation against him on accusations of corruption while in office. Indictments came in 2004 and again in 2005, and in 2006 he was convicted on corruption charges. Since then there have been counter-accusations by various former attorneys general and officials that his prosecution was intentionally wrongful.

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Response to ramblin_dave (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:49 PM

22. Yes--I was under the mistaken impression that

he faced state charges. That said, he has asked for a commutation, not a pardon, after trying and failing on appeal all the way to the Supremes.

I feel for the gentleman, but I think it's a long shot for this guy. Obama has been cheap with commutations (one I think) and pardons (22--but this guy doesn't qualify for one of those, anyway). If it happens before he leaves office, it will happen at Xmas, usually. There isn't much if any up-side for a President to commute/pardon in the middle of his term, unless it's something heart-wrenching and heart-warming like a guy who stole a candy bar during the Great Depression and went to jail for a zillion years or something.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:02 PM

6. Yes!!!!!

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:13 PM

9. Perhaps someone should start a petition on the white house site to this effect. n/t

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:14 PM

10. Personally I believe he should have done it Jan 21 2009. THIS guy is completely innocent.

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Response to diabeticman (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:47 PM

21. Do these sound like the words of an innocent man?

"I come today to plead for mercy... The hardest thing for me personally is knowing that I have let my family down. As a father I have no greater wish than to have my children be proud of me."

Siegelman paused at times to brush away tears and said he wanted to apologize to the judge, his family and to the people of Alabama.

"I do have deep regrets and remorse for my actions. I'd like to apologize to the people of Alabama for the embarrassment my actions have caused."

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:56 PM

24. IF you are truly aware of the whole story "THOSE WORDS" are said in hopes it would appease the BUSH

"justice" department.



He was basically railroaded.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:11 PM

26. Oh, good god.

There is NO acknowledgement of criminal intention at all there. And that's not all he said to the public. He was talking to Fuller, a corrupt right-wing judge who had Siegelman's fate in his hand even though should have recused himself.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:12 PM

27. It's clear you are not familiar with this case. This is, even according to dozens of Republicans

a total travesty of justice and one of the worst examples of a political witch hunt orchestrated by Karl Rove and his minions.

There should not be a pardon, the entire rotten prosecution should be thrown out considering all the evidence of the corruption that took place, from Rove to the Judge to the prosecution itself.

How did you feel about the DOJ overturning the conviction of Republican Sen. Stevens NOT because he was not guilty, and there was far more actual evidence of guilt in that trial, but because the process itself was corrupted? I agreed with that decision. Even though I though Stevens was guilty of the charges against him. When the process is corrupted you cannot have faith in the system.

But the corruption in Stevens' case does not even come close to the corruption in Siegelman's case.

As for his words there, he DOES feel terrible about what his family has been put through. Had he stayed out of politics, not been so outspoken about Election fraud etc. chosen a different career, things would have been very different for them.

He did not commit a crime as has been acknowledged by both Democrats and Republicans. If he did, so did every elected official in the country.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:14 PM

11. now....won't take much capital. NOW

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:20 PM

13. Yes, and NOT on a Friday afternoon

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:57 PM

15. Yes!!

Now.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:44 PM

20. No, the DOJ should do what they did with Sen. Stevens' trial when they discovered

some irregularities in the way it was handled, OVERTURN the verdict. A Pardon means someone was guilty. Siegelman was NOT guilty, this was a Rove political witch hunt which even Republicans have acknowledged.

Then an investigation into the whole crooked process, the crooked judge, Rove et al, should take place.

But Siegelman should released immediately, this is one of the worst travesties of justice I have ever seen.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:52 PM

23. That sounds like a much more plausible course of action, and one more likely

to succeed than a request for a commutation.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:56 PM

25. +10000000000000000

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:48 PM

28. immediately

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:16 PM

29. Obama could also commute the sentence like bush did to scooter libby

 

The important thing is for him to get out of jail

He doesn't actually need a legal pardon

Could be time served, nothing more, nothing less and could use Libby situation as a basis

Thanksgiving is now 3 weeks away, right

I beelieve his family already asked that it be presented to President Obama

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