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Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:50 PM

 

Why should I vote for Obama?

Obama has carried on the assault on public education with his Race to the Top and various other education policies. He has an Education secretary whose unstated goal seems to be destroying the public education system. As a teacher, I see no reason to vote for Obama.

Obama has continued the war in Afghanistan, and insured that troops will be in that country for at least another twelve years. Furthermore, he has expanded our military operations by the increasing use of drones in various countries throughout the world, killing innocents and violating the sovereignty of countries in Asia, Africa and the Middle East. As an anti-war activist, I see no reason to vote for Obama.

Obama has codified the excesses of the Bush era spying programs. Warrantless wiretapping, the increase of the police state, hell, even a personal kill list of people, be they American citizens or otherwise. As a person who values my civil liberties and civil rights, I see no reason to vote for Obama.

Obama has given us a health care system that is now going to be driven by the insurance industry, with no public option, few cost controls, and an individual mandate that will force me to purchase insurance from a for profit insurance agency. As one who has been concerned about health care policy in this country for the past thirty odd year, I find this solution to be a risky one at best, and no reason to vote for Obama.

Obama has failed to fight for his economic policies, and this is evident in the fact that our economy is still very weak. A stimulus that contained more tax cuts for the rich and well off, and little Keynesian power, I have been dismayed that Obama spent three years being above the fray and not fighting for workers and general improvement in the economy. As a result, we have just bumped along the bottom, while real people continue to suffer real harm from long term unemployment and under-employment. This is not a reason to vote for Obama.

Obama has seriously entertained the "reform" of Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid in his on again, off again flirtation with the brutal austerity dictates of the Catfood Commission. One gets the sneaky feeling that these "reforms" are going to be enacted only after the election, when Obama has the votes he needs to remain in office. As a person who is in the autumn of my life, I don't find this to be a reason to vote for Obama.

The fact of the matter is that, as a liberal in general, I find no reasons at all to vote for Obama, just one major reason to vote against Romney, namely that Romney will be far worse in all of these areas than Obama has been.

What a sad statement that is.

The Democratic party has moved so far to the right that it only looks left in comparison to the batshit crazy Republicans. I will be voting for Obama and Democrats on Tuesday only as a means of keeping those Republicans out of power. That is not a good way to run a party or a country. For what this does, this devolution of our political system that pits the center right against the batshit crazy right, is only insure that no progressive, liberal voices are heeded, despite the fact that it is those self same liberal voices and liberal policies that have provided true progress in our country's history.

So, once again, I find myself voting for the lesser of two evils, and hating myself for doing so, trapped by the fact that there are no viable alternatives. There will be no celebration in my house Tuesday night if Obama wins, only the certainty that we will continue to descend into a corporately controlled police state perpetually at war, albeit it at a slower pace than if Romney wins.

Congratulations, no matter who wins the election, we have all lost in the long run. Peace out.

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Reply Why should I vote for Obama? (Original post)
MadHound Nov 2012 OP
proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 #1
Webster Green Nov 2012 #8
Deep13 Nov 2012 #17
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OnyxCollie Nov 2012 #263
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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:51 PM

1. The Supreme Court

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:55 PM

8. +1

Indeed. That is the biggest reason to vote for the president.

If I was unfortunate enough to live in any of the swing states, I would damn sure vote for Obama.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:04 PM

17. +4 (justices over 70 years old) nt

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 09:46 PM

124. Boom. OP owned on the first answer.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:09 PM

263. Obama appointed Elena Kagan who, as Solicitor General,

advocated for an even longer prison sentence for Don Siegelman, a man who had dared to go after Exxon.

Protect corporate interests and be rewarded.

Four justices were unwilling to hear the domestic eavesdropping case.

Supreme Court Lets Stand Telecom Immunity In Wiretap Case
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=260709

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court is leaving in place a federal law that gives telecommunications companies legal immunity for helping the government with its email and telephone eavesdropping program.

The justices said Tuesday they will not review a court ruling that upheld the 2008 law against challenges brought by privacy and civil liberties advocates on behalf of the companies' customers. The companies include AT&T, Inc., Sprint Nextel Corp. and Verizon Communications Inc.

Lawsuits filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and Electronic Frontier Foundation accused the companies of violating the law and customers' privacy through collaboration with the National Security Agency on intelligence gathering.

The Supreme Court pick is an empty threat.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #263)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:52 PM

281. And Romney's appointments would be better?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #281)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:32 PM

305. Where did I say that?

Your reading comprehension is lacking, as is your argument for Obama's SCOTUS picks.

Ha ha. I laugh at your pathetic attempt at rebuttal.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #263)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:33 PM

342. Bravo.

 

Thank you for reminding everyone of the disgrace that Obama sidled us with.

The Supreme Court is not a winning election issue for us because Obama's already made sure the Court is beyond our reach for another two decades.

Focus on the issues that we can win with: taxes, jobs, the economy, foreign policy.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:52 PM

2. if you dont, I will beat you with a piece of garden hose

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:55 PM

9. Really?

 

Somehow I doubt it. Yes, I'm in my fifties. I'm also 6'5", am well versed in handling myself in a fight. While anti-war, I'm not a pacifist. So please, don't make any threats you can't back up.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:58 PM

11. I'm kidding of course, but if you cant tell the difference between O and R$....

Oh, and I'm 6'6'' 220....with dark hair and a tan and charming disposition..

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:49 PM

83. I'm 11'3", and I eat punks like you for breakfast.

Monty Python. (Because this entire thread is Theatre of the Absurd.)

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:21 AM

166. Where the hell did the OP say that s/he couldn't tell the difference between the two? - try reading

again, this time for comprehension.

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Response to kath (Reply #166)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:40 AM

225. The entire OP says that. If you cant figure out why to vote for one person over another...

that is exactly what that means.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #225)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:39 PM

235. The OP does no such thing. Clearly says "just one major reason to vote against Romney, namely that

Romney will be FAR WORSE in all of these areas than Obama has been.

The OP also clearly states that s/he is voting for Obama, because (again) Romney will be far worse.

Is basic reading really that difficult for so many here??

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #225)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:51 PM

303. stevenleser, I asked you a question down below.

Last edited Sun Nov 4, 2012, 07:48 PM - Edit history (1)

I would appreciate a clear answer as to why you post that I am a person who should be given "points" for not using an ethnic slur.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 09:17 AM

215. That is your only reply in the flamefest you started?

Really? You could have at least flushed before leaving the room.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:55 PM

89. very classy, using a violence metaphor

 



You are a real tough guy, aren't you.

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Response to Shining Jack (Reply #164)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:42 PM

239. Oh, thanks, I love those! *steals for later use*

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:52 PM

3. Between this, and the tears of the Freepers, I'm feeling pretty good. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:13 PM

284. their bitter tears are nectar to my soul...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:53 PM

5. Obama and Dems live

in the current day universe. Thuglicans live in some alternate and previously unknown universe. That and the Supreme Court is enough for me.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:54 PM

6. Don't vote for him. Then I can have hopes that you and your friends are of Draft age.

Sick of the lame purists who think that their deep deep thoughts are more important than our families getting out of poverty, or someone's dying child getting health care FINALLY after being born with a "pre-existing condition."

I expected this from you.. all election season long. Was surprised you didn't do your big drama-queen thing on Monday night, though. That's usually the traditional time for this stupid pleas for attention (guess you wanted to beat the rush.)


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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:42 PM

146. 'We have not yet begun to suffer.' Some can afford to wait for Godot. Some can't.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:57 AM

176. +1,000,000! Sadly predictable...

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 03:01 AM

324. +10 and then -1 because I don't wish the DRAFT on ANYONE.

 

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:59 PM

12. You Better Believe It!!!! nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:00 PM

13. There's lots to be glad about

if you compare it to good ole Bush days. Good lasting change is slow & hard. What matters most is the direction we're heading & the progress already made. It's miserable to live a life of half-empty cup.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:01 PM

14. Maybe you can vote for Nader instead?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:01 PM

15. I love you MadHound. We work on this in days to come and thank God every day

Obama is in a position to beat the 2 most evil politicians I have ever seen in my life. So we work to pull our party back to the left. I know in my heart they only reason we are having this discussion is because of what Obama has to work with. We will win, Tuesday night and for the next four years. Peace to you MadHound.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:07 AM

178. You love MAD MIND after this latest diatribe? Yawn...

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #178)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:56 AM

203. Mad is a long time DUer that I have had a lot of

respect for, this poster has been here longer than you. MadHound was here fighting the good fight against Bush for some of the policies Obama has embraced. I can understand the disappointment, but the disappointment passes. And in Obamas next term there is more work to be done and we need every Democrat we can get, disappointed or not to change some of those policies. Mad stated he is voting for Obama, what the fuck else do you want? Yawn yourself, I'm wide awake and ready to fucking get it done.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:03 PM

16. Congratulations.

You've turned bottomless cynicism, political myopia and existential despair into performance art. Bad performance art, maybe, but still...

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Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:57 PM

94. I would have to add self indulgent political self gratification.


"bottomless cynicism, political myopia, self indulgent political self gratification, and existential despair . . "


carry on.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #94)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:52 PM

240. Waitng:

Waiting for Godot follows a pair of men who divert themselves while waiting expectantly, vainly for someone named Godot to arrive. They claim he's an acquaintance but in fact hardly know him, admitting that they would not recognize him when they do see him. To occupy the time they eat, sleep, converse, argue, sing, play games, exercise, swap hats, and contemplate suicide – anything "to hold the terrible silence at bay".

Dammit, where's my socialist utopia? I vote for it every year!

Waiting, waiting...






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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:06 PM

19. Why should I read your one sided whine fest?

Why would I care that someone who obviously hates Obama isn't voting for him?

You've been at DU for over 32K pots and you haven't been able to read up on all the previous positive posts? I Why should anyone take one moment now to assuage your outrage, when you've have 4 years to read all the positived so many hundreds here have posted and responded to.

So dearest MadHound, do what you what. I don't give rat's ass.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:22 PM

28. Amen.

Couldn't have said it better.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:00 PM

45. That is brilliant.

Obama at his worst is a far better option then Romney at his "best". Romney scares the hell out of me. So I am happily voting for President Obama.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:29 PM

366. Isn't that EXACTLY what the OP said?

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Response to FSogol (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:16 PM

51. This cartoon makes the same argument as the OP.

In case you didn't notice.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #51)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:19 PM

54. Actually it makes the opposite argument

Which apparently you didn't notice.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #54)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:49 AM

191. One doesn't notice these things. One reads them.

The OP isn't making it as funny or as simple or as handy for all the people in denial that the same powers and policies will be in force regardless of winner. But that is also implicit in the cartoon. (Which doesn't mean there is no difference or that you shouldn't vote for Obama). Sorry if that doesn't fit the convenient black-and-white worldview desired around here.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:00 AM

346. Actually it does make the exact same argument that the OP makes.

He should take it and include it in the OP because apparently there are people here who are unable to read and understand anything more than a couple of sentences (I've been told it is not intelligent to write more than TWO sentences here) but it appears they understand a cartoon.

Excellent rendition of what the entire OP just said.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:20 PM

55. +2, the cartoon is right

 

madhound could have posted it into his OP to reinforce it.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #55)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:29 PM

64. Another fail.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #64)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:31 PM

66. If you want to make the OP's argument go right ahead

 

You remind me of freepers who can't process any opinion but their own.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #66)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:32 PM

67. LOL, whatever dude.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #64)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:02 AM

347. Are you serious? That cartoon says exactly what the OP said. If you thought it

was some kind of contradiction then the 'fail' are those who thought so.

Madhound SHOULD include it in the OP as it is exactly what he said.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #55)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 09:40 PM

123. +3

Actually, it's an excellent cartoon to illustrate Madhound's point.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #123)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:45 AM

227. Madhounds point is that even Obama at his worst is light years better than Romney at his best?

Nope, dont think so.

Nice try though... oh, well, no, it really wasnt a nice try either.

I'll give you points for not using an ethnic slur in your post. How about that?

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #227)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:44 PM

302. stevenleser, what is this comment supposed to mean?

Last edited Sun Nov 4, 2012, 07:48 PM - Edit history (1)

"I'll give you points for not using an ethnic slur in your post. How about that?"

Please explain to me why this comment was directed at me.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #302)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:58 PM

309. Your logic was a fail, so I had to give you points for something. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #309)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:28 AM

310. No, stevenleser, You brought the subject of posting racist garbage into this conversation.

Tell me why you brought up that topic in reference to me, because it is a vile reference, and i do not appreciate it.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #310)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:08 AM

314. Yes, woo. You dont get to tell me what I meant by what I said. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #314)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:45 AM

315. stevenleser, why did you raise the topic of making racist posts in reference to me?

Last edited Sun Nov 4, 2012, 07:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Why did you raise this disgusting topic in reference to me?

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #315)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:46 AM

316. I refer you to the first answer I gave in #309 when you asked that. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #316)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:48 AM

317. No, stevenleser, You brought up this particular subject.

Why did you feel the need to raise the topic of racist posts in reference to me?

I am certain you did not have a seizure, so why bring up that disgusting topic in reference to me?

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #317)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 02:05 AM

319. I refer you to the first answer I gave in #309 when you asked that. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #319)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 02:08 AM

320. Your choice to bring up RACIST POSTS in reference to me is what I am asking about.

You chose, out of the blue, that particular, disgusting topic to mention in reference to me.

Why, stevenleser? I think I deserve an explanation and an apology.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #320)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 02:18 AM

321. I refer you to the first answer I gave in #309 when you asked that. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #321)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 02:48 AM

322. You are the one who wanted to talk about racism, stevenleser.

Last edited Sun Nov 4, 2012, 07:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Let's talk about why you brought it up. Let's talk about why you brought it up in reference to me.



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Response to stevenleser (Reply #321)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:05 AM

348. I just read this exchange and Woo is correct. Why did you make that statement

in reference to Woo, completely out of the blue? You definitely owe an apology here instead of digging deeper. That would be the decent thing to do.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #348)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 08:04 AM

358. Thank you, Sabrina. stevenleser's behavior here is an embarrassment to DU.

Last edited Mon Nov 5, 2012, 10:07 AM - Edit history (1)

This sort of cheap, despicable smear in lieu of argument should have no place among adults on DU. stevenleser should be very ashamed.

steveleser advertises in his posts that he debated on Fox News, apparently trying to lay claim to some professional rhetorical proficiency. Perhaps this is what one learns there. What a low, cheap, and embarrassing display from a self-proclaimed professional this is.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:37 PM

71. I dont think your post is what you wanted to post in support of Obama

 

It kind of shows the same rightward direction that this country is going.

You might want to delete that post

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Response to argiel1234 (Reply #71)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:42 PM

78. And I don't think the Obama bashers* understand that

any criticism they have of Obama is peanuts compared to how Romney and his team of John Bolton, Paul Ryan, and Robert Bork would be on their best day. Jen Soresen's comic makes this point brilliantly without being (what the bashers like to term) an Obama cheerleader.


*using the term generically, not referring to you specifically.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #78)



Response to argiel1234 (Reply #96)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:03 PM

102. I know what a zombie is...

you seem very familiar with the DU hot buttons and histories for someone who's been here for a week. What was or were your previous DU name(s)?

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #110)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:15 PM

111. ?

 

exactly what?

You laughed at me so I laughed back

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:50 PM

290. Sid...why would a Canadian get so worked up they do 7 posts on this thread?

Take a break...relax. Focus time on your own elections. We are cool here in the USA ...you don't need to hypervent and face a heart attack over what goes on here.

Seriously. It's just TOO MUCH hyperbole. Not good for the health.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #290)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:29 PM

296. "Koko", why would you take the time to count everyone's posts in this thread?...

or did you only count mine? And what does that say about you, if it was only mine??

If it's OK with you, I may even post a couple more.

Is that OK?

Sid

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Response to KoKo (Reply #290)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:56 AM

357. well to be fair ...

Last edited Mon Nov 5, 2012, 06:53 AM - Edit history (1)

I counted others with plenty more posts than Sid. I mean, if you're counting posts. Just to be fair. Right?

Or is it because he's Canadian? Isn't he allowed to opine?

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #357)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 07:04 PM

363. He kind of seems to get too involved in American Politics and sounds sometimes like.......

well...the "dark side," for my taste having been here so many years.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #78)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:00 PM

246. Obamabots = Obama Lovers = Obama cheerleaders. Obvious insult is obvious.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:38 PM

275. That cartoon makes Obama look really bad

Was that your intention?

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #275)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:42 PM

277. No it doesn't. It takes on every non-birther criticism of Obama & shows how it is superior

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Response to FSogol (Reply #277)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:19 PM

285. Wrong. Those are complaints of the Democratic base n/t

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #285)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:03 PM

286. Wrong, the Democratic base SUPPORTS Obama's reelection.



I know this because I am that base.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #286)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:19 PM

287. They support reelection in spite of their complaints

Which is pretty much what this OP (that has the McCarthyites shitting themselves) was all about

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Response to FSogol (Reply #277)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:16 AM

352. That cartoon is exactly what Madhound's OP says. n/t

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:04 AM

153. Can you not READ?

The OP said he was voting for Obama.

Jeebus.

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Response to kath (Reply #153)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:28 PM

308. did you not read what I said?

Jeebus...I couldn't give a fux who MadHound votes for.

I was responding to the portion of the post where Madhound wants everyone else to spoon feed him reasons to vote for Obama....something assuage his final misery and reluctant vote.

He's been spoon fed the good and the positive, the real life stories and the examples of what is correct and decent about Obama for years, and now he wants synopsis #8,554 three days before the election?

Jeebus, back off bub, your poutrage is pathetic.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:09 AM

180. .../...

I might've said, "I don't give a flying fuck", but other wise, you speak for me, Sheep!

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 09:07 AM

208. thank you

nuff said.

No one ever said Obama was perfect but I have no problems not only voting for the guy but campaigning for him too.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #208)


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:12 PM

20. This is frankly a lot of whiny bullshit

Consider the alternative. Because you know, President McCain, had he been elected, would be far worse. So would Romney. Most of your points amount to at best naive idealism and at worst foolishness.

Afghanistan: "well I think that the US should just walk away from drawn-out conflicts and neglect our obligation to both the local government and our obligation to our allies who are also committed in the region"

Drones: "we should just ignore the Pashtun tribal warlords in Pakistan who are launching terrorist attacks against American troops across the Afghan border even though Pakistan can't or won't do anything about them"

Healthcare reform: "Obama should have pushed for single payer even though the votes were never there because I'd feel better about a noble, failed effort than the actual reform we have"

Economy: "The US economy is growing at a rate of 2% which is significantly higher than the UK or Eurozone, amid continuing global economic difficulties, and with lower unemployment, but it's just not good enough and Obama should have done more despite Republican Congressional obstructionism". (Go take a look at the rest of the world sometime. And while you're at it look at how long it took for the economy to recover after the 1929 crash.)

Waah. So don't fucking vote, then.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:14 PM

21. then you should vote for someone else.

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Response to spanone (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:23 PM

29. Who's he kidding? ...

After everything they've posted here, we all know that the OP would have to unreasonably compromise their principles in order to cast a vote for the lesser of the two evil candidates.



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:40 PM

77. who will you be voting for ?

 



You seem to ignore the point

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #87)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:59 PM

100. why is it funny to you

 

Im sure you can vote for our President, so why are you laughing?

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Response to argiel1234 (Reply #100)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:05 PM

103. Welcome back, again...

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Response to argiel1234 (Reply #100)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:04 PM

135. Sid is Canadian. nt

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Response to spanone (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:46 AM

228. And OP should go somewhere else. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:16 PM

22. A train that's never late.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #22)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:33 PM

33. The Original Poster knows exactly what time for the train to leave the tracks...

you know, so that the train doesn't derail.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:19 AM

184. Even in the wake of an unprecedented natural catastrophe...

Toot! Toot! Here comes the MadHound Express, barreling straight down the line, more punctual than Old Faithful!

You can set your watch by ole Mad...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:17 PM

254. And always sounds the same horn, plowing through bodies it can't see.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:17 PM

23. If you can't find any of the GOOD things that Obama has done then perhaps ...


you haven't looked at ALL of what he has done.

There's no way that you can be against everything he has done.

Lots of links of lists of what President Obama has done here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022255



p.s. I feel sad for you that you are looking at the re-election of OUR PRESIDENT so negatively.
I will pray for you



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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:19 PM

25. Recommended - I wasn't exactly thrilled marking Obama's name

 

on the ballot either. It was definitely a vote to keep Romney and the completely unacceptable and disgusting republicans out of the white house, not an endorsement of the many troubling policies that you aptly listed.

The police state is one that I find especially troubling. When Bush did it everyone was aghast, disturbed and horrified about it, so its strange to see it suddenly become A-OK when the surveillance society policies are continued, and even expanded under a Democratic President. (Drone sky spies coming soon to a neighborhood near you!)

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Response to quinnox (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:44 PM

37. Agreed.

I'm much more anti-Romney than pro-Obama. I paused briefly upon seeing Socialist and Green candidates on the ballot, but checked the box for Obama as the best way of stopping Romney.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:48 PM

40. yep, same here

 

I can't say the Green candidates didn't tempt me. God knows they would be a hell of a lot better for this country in the progressive policies they would implement. It's a shame that pragmatism demands we really don't have a choice.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #25)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:06 AM

154. + a brazillion.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:19 PM

26. You agreed to the Terms of Service when you registered here.

You obviously don't respect those Terms. We, therefore, have no reason to respect the derisive flame-bait that you post day after day.

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Response to blue neen (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:13 PM

49. huh, madhound said he did vote for Obama

 

Isn't that the most important and relevant part of the TOS? Ok, so he didn't do it wearing a cheer-leading uniform and doing back flips in joy, but so what?

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Response to quinnox (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:56 PM

92. I'm sure Madhound is capable of speaking for himself.

Right?

I mean, unless there is some kind of a tag team thing going on here, but that would just be a ridiculous thought.

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Response to blue neen (Reply #92)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:59 PM

99. yea, but I couldnt help myself when I saw you guys starting to swarm the thread

 

Someone has to speak up for the liberal/progressive side.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #99)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:06 PM

104. "You guys?"

Who precisely is "you guys?" Please give examples.

Are you saying that I am not a liberal/progressive?

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Response to blue neen (Reply #104)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:09 PM

108. You can't be liberal/progressive unless you hold your nose...

while voting for Obama. If you are any more enthusiastic than that, you're obviously just some DLC, Third Way shill.

as if it were really needed.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #108)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:33 PM

140. I am a liberal

and never been ashamed to say so. I will not hold my nose while voting for Obama on Tuesday morning. In fact I will be voting for him with as much enthusiasm as I have in my body.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #99)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:28 AM

167. Sometimes it feels like liberals are no longer welcome here

If you're not happy that the Democratic Party is now largely center-right, you're supposed to just shut up. Never mind that the party would be utterly unrecognizable to my union organizer grandfathers who fought the good fight back in the 30s and 40s.

And if you believe in the notions enshrined in the Bill of Rights, some of which go back to the Magna Carta and beyond, and are disgusted with the shredding of the Constitution that continues under this administration, you're supposed to shut up about that, too.

Great. Just great.

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Response to kath (Reply #167)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 07:57 AM

331. Well Stated My Friend. N/T

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Response to kath (Reply #167)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 12:12 AM

344. Real liberals seem to be perfectly happy here

while the pseudo liberals seem to have their problems.

Perhaps you'd be happier on a website where people share your belief that the Dem Party is now center-right, and the Constitution is being shredded. Most people here don't.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #99)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:02 PM

249. ROFL "you guys" = Dems. fail.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #49)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:10 AM

165. The reading comprehension level is pathetically low in this thread. And we say the Freepers are

barely literate and can't spell...

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Response to quinnox (Reply #49)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:23 AM

185. Are you MadHound's muppet master, or what?

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Response to quinnox (Reply #49)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:56 PM

243. suuuure he did...

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Response to blue neen (Reply #26)


Response to conscious awareness (Reply #250)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:15 PM

252. yes.. we sacrifice children at the alter of our cult leader Obama.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #252)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:18 PM

255. Nah

 

you just support someone that has a great smile and nice family AND...

KILLS. AND. MAIMS. INNOCENT. TERRORIZED. PEOPLE. ACROSS. THE. GLOBE.

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Response to conscious awareness (Reply #250)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:46 PM

279. Hey, you've gotta get your mind right - that kinda stuff is only bad when someone who has an "R"

behind their name does it.

If they've run as a "D", it's all good! Drone attacks good. Indefinite detention good. Assassinations without any due process good. Warrantless wiretaps good. Torture good. Not prosecuting war crimes good (even if failing to prosecute violates int'l law). PATRIOT Act good.
And it goes on & on & on &...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:21 PM

27. If you don't want to vote for him, don't. Romney may be more your cup o'tea. Tea party on, dude.nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:25 PM

30. Don't Vote for him , but you seem to pop up with these everytime Obama seems to be moving ahead

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:28 PM

31. Bless your little heart. In the way a Southern lady

means it. As in, it doesn't mean fuck you.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #31)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:54 PM

242. bless him, he tries so very, very hard...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #242)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:51 PM

260. He does, dutnt he.

He just caint hep it if he dutnt get it right.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #260)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:39 PM

276. i can picture the tiny fists flailing in impotent rage...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #276)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:53 PM

291. I can picture "tiny little other things" raging in this thread also.

So take that for what you will..but "tiny fists raging" is better than the other alternative....

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:33 PM

32. I will also

 

be voting for Obama but he is neither lessor or evil.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:36 PM

34. There, there, poor Madhound

I understand how upsetting it is to you when Democrats on this site pull together, and stand behind their president - you know, the prez you can't stand and feel a need to whine about incessantly.

I fully appreciate your insatiable need for attention, and how upset you must feel when people are talking about supporting Obama, instead of talking about you and your utterly ridiculous theories.

But buck up, dude. The election will be over soon - at which point someone somewhere might give a flyin' fuck about what you have to say.

This train is never late. Unfortunately, that's because it's always parked in the station, with literally no place to go.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:40 PM

36. Found a post of yours from Jan where you discouraged voting for Obama:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002226531#post6

The OP first:
MadHound
Would you vote for this candidate?

One who handed an entire industry a mandated monopoly of the entire US population. One who extended tax cuts for the rich. One codified the indefinite detention of American citizens into law. One who has ordered the summary execution of American citizens abroad. One whose idea of a stimulus bill was one made up of forty percent tax cuts and tax credits. One who has kept the military industrial complex well fed and cared for. One whose term saw the lowest tax rates since the 1950's.

These are but a few of the reasons why liberals and progressives are upset with Obama, for this is the candidate that they are being presented with. Yes, the alternative is worse, perhaps much worse. But it becomes awfully damn hard to really give a damn when the political choices presented to you are center right authoritarian and hard right authoritarian.
9

Then post #6 where you impy it might be better to let the republicans win in 2012:

Jan 2012
MadHound
6. And that is the entire problem encapsulated,
We've been presented with the choices between greater and lesser evils for decades now, yet never in all that time have we ever been presented with a good(in all senses of that term) choice.

Instead we are simply presented with the choice of dying slowly or dying quickly as a country. Frankly I think that dying quickly might not be such a bad thing. Get it done, get it over with quickly so we can start on rebuilding.
Reply



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Response to DevonRex (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:21 PM

57. ...



"Frankly I think that dying quickly might not be such a bad thing. Get it done, get it over with quickly so we can start on rebuilding."

Needless to say, Madhound's contribution to 'rebuilding' would be to whine about it on a message board.

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #57)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:24 PM

59. It's a constant drumbeat. I don't know why

he's here considering the SOP.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:25 PM

60. searching for old posts and reposting them in threads used to be against DU rules

 

and for good reason, IMHO. Just sayin'. It's pretty slimy if you ask me. Anyway, yes, I'm sure there are some more posts by madhound where he doesn't speak in reverent and worshipful terms of President Obama. You are going to be busy if you want to dig them all up.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:40 PM

76. LOL. Not sufficiently worshipful of MadHound for you?

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #76)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:13 PM

251. lol, a cheerleader... a madhoundabot if you will... a worshipper....

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Response to dionysus (Reply #251)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:46 PM

259. MadHoundBot LOL!! Heehee!!! Well done my friend.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:52 PM

85. You're posting about what is against DU rules?

In THIS thread? Oh, that is priceless.

Seriously, you just unintentionally made the whole thread worthwhile!

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Response to quinnox (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:34 PM

130. It's slimy to cite the OP's own words?

Why? Don't you believe he stands by them?

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Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #130)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:53 AM

171. Well, isn't it? It's like when PBO quotes Romney's 47% remark, or when we repeat what Todd Akin

had to say....it's UNFAIR to hold people accountable for what they've said!!!

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Response to quinnox (Reply #60)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:51 AM

170. And maybe that rule changed for a reason. nt

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Response to quinnox (Reply #60)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:58 PM

245. constantly fucking campaigning against democrats also used to be against the rules.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #36)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:50 AM

229. MH is really begging to be tombstoned. Admins should oblige him

I dont curse often, but doing this 4 days before election day is completely fucked up. Completely.

He should go to the worm eaten tree or wherever else his ilk go.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #229)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:19 PM

257. There were so many alerts on this OP it's beyond

ridiculous. All for nothing. IMO this post was meant to discourage people from voting for Obama. Who could make it to the end of his depressing list to the non-endorsement endorsement if they were unsure about whom to support?

Then of course it was also a clarion call to all his buddies to bash and trash the President as well.

This is a pattern we've seen before, most recently when Admin was at the Convention and couldn't do anything. This time they're here and I'm aghast that they're unresponsive to DUers who only expect that TOS be enforces 4 days prior to the election.

I had been planning to donate again before election night so I wouldn't get blocked out at Defcon. I still might but it will be with less enthusiasm.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:45 PM

38. I'm sorry you feel that way

 

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:45 PM

39. How many ponies are you looking for?

As a female, I find it creepy that the Rethugs are focused on my female parts..

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Response to HipChick (Reply #39)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:16 PM

53. And never let us forget they are equally prurient about certain male parts, as well.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:51 PM

41. Supremes

The defeat of the rapey right wing who are not exactly being subtle about telegraphing their intentions for the oppressed and labor. I don't want the entire country to turn into Walkerville. And if nothing else, Romney defeating Obama would unleash and empower the very worst racist sectors of the US. You think they're bad now, beating the first Black President would be like Red Bull to the ultra-reactionaries. Ugh. I couldn't live with it.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:52 PM

42. Unrec

"hating myself"--"we have all lost"
"viable alternative"? go away

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:54 PM

43. For the women of this country. Period.

Because we can't afford to have the Repug, gray-faced, old white guys with $2 haircuts making decisions about women's issues.

... off of soap box ...

... and back to lurky-hole ...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:59 PM

44. So vote Green.

I will vote for President Obama with enthusiasm. Your post makes me a little sad but frankly more annoyed.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:08 PM

46. Yeah....it's the right

leaning Democrat who signed the Lilly Ledbetter act and got rid of DADT. It's that right leaning Democrat who supports gay marriage and a woman's right to choose.

Sorry you didn't get your pony.



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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:11 PM

48. Four days before the fucking election...

and this is what you post.

You know what, don't vote, or vote for whoever soothes your ego. But don't think sit and wait for anyone to beg for your vote. You're the only one impressed with your whining and your ego.

Peace out!

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Response to one_voice (Reply #48)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:52 AM

230. Exactly. Four fucking days before the election. OP should not be able to get away with this here. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:13 PM

50. Voting is not enough anymore.


It is time for America to wake up and realize that we have been purchased, and to demand our country back.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:16 PM

52. Let me put it in language you might understand....

Because he isn't a big fat poopie head!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:21 PM

58. Oh bother! Go sulk on your own, OK.

I cannot, for the life of me, remember a single instance when you have had anything positive to say about President Obama. You don't want to vote for him? Then don't. We'll manage to elect him without your grudging vote. Enough, already, with the constant complaining.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #58)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:27 PM

62. you should be thanking him

 

for his vote, not admonishing him. Jesus. Think a little bit on this one.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #62)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:34 PM

69. Whatever, quinnox.

You thank him. I'm done with that. It's my last weekend of door-to-door canvassing. I don't have time for that kind of bullshit. I have a long list of positive things that President Obama has accomplished that I'm handing out, and answers to people's questions in my precinct.

Madhound can fend for himself. What he does or doesn't do is simply not a matter of concern for me any longer.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #58)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:55 PM

90. We managed to elect him last time. What were you doing while we were all here

working hard to oust Republicans?

I sure wasn't consoling anyone who voted for McCain/Palin nor was anyone here that I recall.

DUers CHEERED when he lost and had zero sympathy for those who tried to inflict Sarah Palin on this country. Can't imagine having any sympathy for anyone who voted for McCain/Palin. But to each their own I suppose.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #90)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:57 PM

93. In 2008? I was campaigning for Obama and Al Franken.

I was chair of my DFL precinct and walked my entire precinct canvassing for Obama and the rest of the Democratic candidates. I did not join DU until late that year. You beat me here by a few months. So?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #93)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 09:22 PM

122. Actually I beat you here by four years. But that's irrelevant. I've been a Democrat

all my life and have never felt any need to cavort with those who despise Democrats other than to let them know what I think of them. Never felt the need to sympathize with them when they lose to Democrats either.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #122)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:23 PM

128. Really? Who were you before this incarnation? nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #128)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:13 AM

183. Very good question.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #183)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:32 AM

198. Indeed. I've asked before, never gotten an answer. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #198)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:38 AM

200. I wouldn't expect one.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #198)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:07 AM

220. She never answers this question

Yet she calls attention to her "status" frequently.

Sneaky, IMO....

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #220)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:22 AM

353. I've answered it. Lol, everyone who matters here, knows the answer.

Including the Administrators. I'm not especially concerned about anyone else since they are basically a minority. It's fun watching the reaction thought. Lol, they are nothing if not predictable.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #128)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:14 PM

293. Well...just saying I've been here same time as you and never changed my ID...

except for dropping "01" off the KoKo.

And, I think we've probably always had differences even though I didn't know who you were until DU-3. So, it's hard to know what to think about whether you are a consistent poster or one who comes and goes like many here do ...who just show up at elections and then disappear.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #293)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 07:42 AM

328. I don't know that I was speaking to you, KoKo. Please contact Skinner if you dislike the

fact that I and many other DUers took advantage of his name amnesty. Please.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #93)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 09:26 AM

216. You were still posting at Free Republic at that time, weren't you? nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #216)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 09:36 AM

219. No. I was not.

I was banned there as an "anti-freeper" in 2006, after posting a GBCW post. That coincided with the Democrats retaking control of the House of Representatives. At that point, I decided that further posts from me there trying to change minds were no longer needed.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #219)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:33 PM

271. you know they've got nothing when they drag out the freeper shit, MM...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #271)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:35 PM

273. Shh....they think they're telling on me.

Don't let on that you know. Mum's the word, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #271)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:14 AM

351. I see you are 'concerned' about someone stating facts about policies. But let me

ask you, (btw MM was posting on Right Wing up to 2008 for the record) how do you feel about people who spread vile lies about Gays and women on right wing sites, them lie to DUers pretending to have been life long defenders of minorities until their very own words are discovered and it turns out they were not what they claimed to be?

Has Madhound done this kind of thing, have you unearthed bigoted comments made by Madhound on Right Wing sites, because I'm sure you would be extremely angry if you had. I don't believe you ever expressed any opinion on someone deceiving this community for so long or what you thought of someone holding, as they admitted, such bigoted views while pretending otherwise to DU.

Do you feel such a person is in any position to criticize a Democrat for expressing a viewpoint regarding policies?

What's interesting in this thread is that the small group creating all this noise were remarkably silent about the worst case of bigotry and deception seen on DU.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #219)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:08 AM

349. Why did you go to several other right wing sites after you resigned from

Free Republican and remain on Right Wing sites right up to 2008 making sure to tell them you were not in any way a DUer?

And why do you continue to use the FR date to pretend you stopped posting on Right Wing sites back in 2004 when everyone knows that was not the case at all?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #58)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:35 AM

188. Try finding a post where Madhound says a harsh word about any Republican

Hint: There aren't any.

I first noticed this phenomena about ten years ago.

Wonder what that means?

Don

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Response to NNN0LHI (Reply #188)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 09:14 AM

213. You may be right, but I don't have time

to go hunt for one. The OP of this thread is plenty for me. I'm full up to the throat with it, and more chunks are rising.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Reply #188)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 09:27 AM

217. Love how you team up with the "Union? Whatever!" guy to bash someone who is on your side.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #58)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:57 PM

292. This poster has always seemed to me to be a "thinking person" who does their own research.

Not a poster who is into the "Team Sports" mentality of MSM and much of America these days.

This poster has never seemed to be locked into the thinking of: "It's My TEAM against YOUR TEAM" and BY GOD ....My TEAM is the WINNER and SHUT THE FUCK UP!


Just saying that I've not seen the kind of antics from this poster that I've seen from many others on this website as long as I've been here. MH is just a poster who goes outside the DU BOX to read and evaluate information from diverse reporting on their own.

I think our BIG DEM TENT can certainly include him under our coverings. Don't YOU?

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Response to KoKo (Reply #292)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:27 PM

295. Everyone has an opinion. You're certainly welcome to yours.

Mine is different from yours.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)


Response to scheming daemons (Reply #65)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:38 PM

73. lol, right on cue

 

I love it, "troll" in your book is everyone who doesn't hold the exact same opinion that you do. You are very consistent in this, I'll give you that.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:34 PM

68. If you dont vote

 

we might have that and even more


do you want even more plus a couple more wars too

or do you just want a nice long slide into fascism


your choice

we are going right or we are going going right quick.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:39 PM

75. Don't vote for Obama; vote against R$

R$ will really and truly f/u public education, wars, etc.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:46 PM

79. There's no pony, so best cast yr vote elsewhere.

And what about SCOTUS? Willing to throw that down the shitter?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:47 PM

80. Because this election is the last one ever.

That's it. Just this vote. It's utterly impossible to keep working towards your goals and trying to push the party in what you feel is the right direction. There is only this election, and that's it. The US will be stuck forever.

Alternatively, you could pull your head out of your ass and realize we are in for a long struggle to bring this country back from right-wing insanity. They took 40 years to drag the country to where we are. You're upset it hasn't reversed course in 4 years?

Fuck you. Get your whiny ass to work or shut up. Step 1 is to not let Romney make it even worse. And there's a million steps to follow, so you better have comfortable shoes on.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #80)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:49 PM

84. +1

+1 to scheming daemon's post too.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #84)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:56 PM

91. Agreed...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:48 PM

81. K & R

Because, as always, MadHound speaks the truth.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:48 PM

82. I've had my issues with the president, as well,

But the alternative is unthinkable.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:54 PM

88. because...

1. Let republicans screw the country over wholesale.
2. ?????
3. Progressive majorities rise from the ashes and rebuild America!

...is not a good strategy.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:58 PM

95. Y'all do realize...

...you are feeding this Preston's desire for attention. And he/she is getting plenty of it.

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Response to Sophiegirl (Reply #95)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:50 PM

118. well, blame the swarmers

 

who couldn't leave the thread alone. They can't seem to handle any dissent.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:58 PM

97. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why I hadn't noticed such an angry bitter voice before.



Then I realized a couple of weeks ago I undid my three hidden DUers. Two out of the three were PPR'd. Mystery solved.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:59 PM

98. A hit and run, turd in the punchbowl...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:07 PM

105. So, when it's all over and it's Christmas time in Washington....

Why don't you go off and work on that 3rd party thing that you so obviously want to advocate for?

I'm going to continue to work locally to make sure that progressives move forward WITHIN the Democratic party. I know it's difficult and thought it was a battle that we won a long time ago. But we didn't. So, we fight on.

And no, WHEN we STILL have a Democrat in the White House and a Democratic majority in the Senate, we will not have "lost in the long run". And it will be time to move forward locally and nationally to stem the tide of corporatism and "Know Nothing-ness" that has infected our political lives.

So, instead of peace out, Derp out.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:08 PM

106. You don't deserve a reply. Some things are obvious. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:08 PM

107. since you have resigned yourself to vote for Obama

why don't you force yourself to vote for a few democratic congress people as well. at least your forced vote will be rewarded with a congress that is better than the most unproductive congress that we have had in history for the last 4 years. remember the president proposes and congress disposes. if you're angry at what was accomplished in the 1st 4 years, we need to give the president a congress that will actually "work". not work with him, but literally "work". it is a sad state of affairs when everything is blamed on one individual. unfortunately, he doesn't have as much power as you give him. at least he is an individual that really cares about the people of this country. our current congress does not. they are, in the most, treasonous. and at the least destructive. i guess i am just a glass 1/2 full kinda person.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:15 PM

112. Because you live in a country where about 48% are so far right, they'll vote for Romney

The batshit crazy Republicans pick up tens of millions of votes. Don't blame the Democratic party, or the 'system' - blame about half of the American people. They have a choice, and that half votes batshit crazy.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:22 PM

113. for all the women in your life. daughters, nieces that will be dependent on the supreme court to

defend and protect their rights.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:25 PM

114. Obama said he was going to do all of those things in the last election.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:38 PM

116. Then don't vote for him.

The rest of us know things are better under Obama than they were under Bush.

Sit by yourself and continue to live your delusion that you're making this place a better world.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:52 PM

119. Wow, so according to this thread it's not enough to vote for Obama

you have to agree with everything he says and does?

Whatever you have to say, it's one more vote in the can for Obama. I don't understand the level of vitriol and anger.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #119)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:55 PM

120. it is surreal

 

Apparently if you aren't waving the pom-poms and cheering for all the policies of Obama, but still vote for him as a pragamatic decision, you are a traitor, a heretic, and must be burned at the stake for disloyalty to some of these um, hyper-devotional folks.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #120)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:53 PM

133. No, no. We thank you for your valuable service of taking care of "you guys who swarm the thread."

It's been very enlightening.

I have to run now. We're going to visit our son tomorrow at the house he bought in 2009---that one he was able to purchase because of the $6000 credit provided by the President's stimulus package.

We also have to do a little shopping. President Obama cut taxes for the typical American family by $3600, so my husband and I have been able save for a down payment on a much-needed car. We'll probably look at a Chevy. Our family has always really liked GM's. You know, isn't it a good thing that GM is still around?

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Response to quinnox (Reply #120)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 11:26 PM

343. What is truly surreal

is your constant insistence that all Obama supporters are pom-pom waving cheerleaders, whose support is based on some kind of worship and a total lack of being aware of the facts.

I don't know what state of mind you inhabit, but here in the real world, Obama supporters are acutely aware of his flaws as well as his accomplishments. They are, by and large, realists who never expected that any president - Obama or anyone else - would be 100% in line with all of their personally held views. But perhaps in your world, you honestly believe that one man or woman, once elected POTUS, will please one hundred percent of the people, one hundred percent of the time. And I wish you good luck with that delusion.

You decry the "swarmers" (that would be other DUers who have as much right to their opinion as you have to yours) who disagree with people like Madhound. And more to the point, you seem to believe that everyone has a right to express their anti-Obama views, while his supporters have no right to express theirs.

You complain about the BOGgers posting their opinions of Obama in GD threads, as though those who support a Democratic president on what is (allegedly) a Democratic website should confine themselves to one forum, and refrain from 'swarming' (i.e. posting in) threads that, or so you seem to believe, should be kept free of their opinions.

You whine on a regular basis about those who express any opinion that you disagree with - and then go on to whine about how Obama supporters can't handle any dissenting opinions. Kettle/pot, classic projection, etc.

While you continually express your disdain for those you have designated as cheerleaders, you invariably go on to demonstrate your belief that anyone and everyone who criticizes Obama and his party on a regular basis are somehow intellectually superior.

You go so far as to use terms like "you guys" (almost Anne Romney-esque, actually) and declare that "someone has to speak up for the liberal/progressive side", as though you represent liberals/progressives, and anyone who disagrees with you has no right to identify themselves as such.

You and those like you have no qualms about calling Obama supporters "lock-steppers", apparently unaware of how often you anti-Obama types lock-step in sync with each other, using identical talking points and phrases in post after post.

Before you again lapse into your usual mode of designating all who support this president as mindless bots who are unable to think for themselves, you might want to invest in the purchase of a mirror.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #119)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:08 PM

136. After that smarmy anti-Obama post all the way to

the very grudging vote for lesser evil Obama don't expect us to shower him with thanks or kiss his ass. Not gonna happen.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #119)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:21 PM

138. the OP Isn't going to vote for Obama anyways, all of his threads are attention whoring

and they usually turn up when Obama is doing well.

notice he never responded to the first reply on the Supreme Court.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #119)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:55 AM

231. For one vote we should overlook his attempt to depress voting of lots of other voters? No thank you.

Around a month ago, I backed up a poster who posted an OP saying this but in a vastly different way, one that asked people to go out and vote for Obama despite some disappointments. The tone of that OP was positive. The tone of this one is negative AND it is way too close to election day.

This is exactly what you would put out in fliers and adds in Democratic strongholds if you were Romney campaign folks and you wanted to depress Democratic turnout.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:59 PM

121. They don't want your vote, you are insufficiently enthusiastic

That's quite clear from the tone of a lot of the replies you've gotten.


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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 09:56 PM

125. Thanks MadHound

It's as if half the people here didn't read your post. I clearly read where you will be voting for Obama...as will both my wife and I.

But no one will convince me that I'm voting for a true Democrat...at least not a traditional Democrat. My vote for Obama is a vote against the nightmare that Romney represents. Believe me, I would far prefer to be voting FOR a Democrat.

It's almost as if people here have forgotten what it means to be a Democrat and the proud traditions that made our Party the Party of the People. We have allowed ourselves to be dragged to the Right...and we weren't even heard to be kicking or screaming.

Now we are known as "Progressives" because the Right has successfully made the word "liberal" a bad and evil term. And to think, it wasn't that long ago I was simply known as a Democrat.

We have become a shadow of ourselves, rationalizing our new definition and even giving ourselves a new name..."Blue Dogs."

We have abandoned all that has made us great...becoming a less lethal reflection of the very Party we oppose. We live in denial of our past to include all that we have accomplished and even died for.

And now you call upon me to cheerfully pull the lever for policies and principles that I spent a lifetime fighting against? I will, but I'm under no illusions: I am voting for the remaining threads of a once great and proud Party...a Party of uncompromising principles.

Finally, I'm reminded of the old saying "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand."

There are people here that will not understand this or the original post. They will probably never understand in that we may have reached the "new normal". If that is the case, I have no hope of convincing you otherwise.

"Let the truth be told, tho the heavens fall."

I am a Democrat!

-Paige


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Response to WiffenPoof (Reply #125)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:17 PM

127. +1

 

Great post. This liberal salutes you.

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Response to WiffenPoof (Reply #125)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:44 AM

161. personally I always liked the label progressive

I always considered it to be to the left of a mere liberal.

Of course, it has now been embraced by the middle right, like the Clintons.

So words often lose their original meaning.

"Fighting" Bob LaFollette was progressive. A Republican, but ran for President in the Progressive Party in 1924, and in some states got more votes than the Democratic candidate.

This, in my view, is what it means to be a Democrat http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/166

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Response to WiffenPoof (Reply #125)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:00 AM

172. Yay, WiffenPoof -someone on this thread who can read! And +1000 for your great post.

From someone who knows/remembers what it used to mean to be a Democrat.

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Response to WiffenPoof (Reply #125)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 08:01 AM

332. Yes, checking the truth at the door because it is 4 days until the election is pathetic.

I am proud of the Democratic policies that you and Madhound speak of and know that if we adhere to those principles and never shy away from them just because it seems "strategic", we will prevail.

I'll be at the polls on election day as a Democratic election inspector making sure the vote gets counted accurately.

Republicanism is pure poison...

Cheers,
Agony

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:14 PM

126. tos violation.

But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:39 PM

131. I never voted for king before.

Yeah, I know bush considered himself a dictator, but I had the feeling that Obama wanted to undo that.

Was I wrong this whole time?

I don't know about you, but I always considered the republican party, you know, the one whose stated goal was to make President Obama a one-termer by obstructing EVERYTHING he tried to accomplish, the biggest obstacle to progressive change, not the President.

You want progressive change? Then give the President the ability to get it done.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:46 PM

132. OK so you aren't thrilled about Obama but you vote for him to keep Romney out?

That's fine it's what most people do. It's totally normal.

There's something weird about requiring people to be excited. You're voting for him, you gave a perfectly sensible reason why other people should vote for him. That should be sufficient between adults.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #132)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:15 PM

137. There's something weird when somebody goes to great

length to post all the reasons not to vote for Obama before grudgingly saying he will vote for him. And this is not the first sub post he's written by a long shot.

So sue us we're tired of the bashing, trashing bullshit posts. We're not sufficiently grateful to MadHound that he deigns to make a logical choice? Tough.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #137)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:30 PM

139. Maybe there should be a sub-group for progressives.

People could go in the sub-group and criticize 3rd-way corporate triangulators without getting piled on and called traitors.

A sub-group for the progressive left where people can express concern about the Democratic party becoming more conservative, but without fear of being called concern trolls.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #139)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:42 PM

145. +. I have thought this for a while. Meta the idea?

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #139)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:43 PM

147. Or there are other boards for people who are

more dissatisfied with the Democratic Party than they are happy with it and who only vote for the Democratic President grudgingly, if at all. OET is a prime example of such a board.

I hear there are whole parties for those people, too, although I doubt they'll ever be anything more than spoilers or annoyances in the elections here in the US.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #147)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:49 PM

149. parties evolve

If we get rid of the left voices, what direction do you think the party will go?

Why do you think the country is where it is politically now?

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #147)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:17 AM

157. Sorry I didn't explain myself well.

I meant a sub-group for people who vote for Democrats and enjoy DU, but also criticize the party and politicians frequently. Subscribing to the group could be optional. Someone who is annoyed by that kind of thing wouldn't subscribe. And if somebody wanted to post something critical of the party, but without annoying others, they could post it in that subgroup.



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Response to DevonRex (Reply #137)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:40 PM

144. yup, they think we should kiss their ass, but i don't think he is going to vote for Obama anyways

i noticed a pattern which is that these type of posts always seem to come up when Obama is doing well.

and the refusal to reply to posts about things like supreme court .

i don't think he voted for Obama the first time around.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:39 PM

142. Because Kucinich isn't running.

And we have just the one choice.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:40 PM

143. I'm so sick of the trollish sound of

these posts The President is in fact a true Democratic President and this being DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND I assumed That President Obama would be respected here

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Response to rbrnmw (Reply #143)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:35 AM

160. You would think, but...

 

These purists always ride in on their high horses bred in lala land, championing the cause for instantaneous utopia and biting the hands of anyone that offers it to them in smaller doses.

They think John Lennon was calling them dreamers, but they're just the obnoxious, contrarian guests at the party or family gathering that everyone complains about when they get home.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #160)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 04:56 AM

345. What nonsense

A lot of posters here, like me, remember the '60s and '70s when we actually had Democrats who would push for Democratic ideals. And even many of the Republicans of that time (Everett Dirksen, Jacob Javits, Margaret Chase Smith, et al) were ideologically to the left of many if not most of today's Senate Democrats. So we have every right to be unhappy about the way things are today.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:47 PM

148. apparently most DUers still are not able to answer that question

except with SCOTUS, which is still more of a reason to vote against Romney than it is to vote FOR Obama

the sad, sad truth, the dirty lowdown.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #148)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:53 PM

150. What a sick, twisted thing to say right before

the election. Sounds like a Romney commercial. Aren't you just proud of yourself?

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #150)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:34 AM

159. strike three is still strike three

even if you don't like the call. Even if the call helps the cursed Yankees win (again).

If it looks like a strike. I call a strike.

Just read the thread. The OP asks "Why should I vote for Obama?"

and DU does not respond with

because, because, because, because, because

because of the wonderful things he does

and then a "list" of some of those wonderful things.

Apparently that would be too much work. Even to link to a journal entry showing some of his positive accomplishments

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/165
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/138

Instead, DU mostly responds with "shut up, ya whiner"

Par for the course, I guess, on a "discussion" board - a dearth of discussion.

Should I be proud, or ashamed about seeing things that way? Does a feeling of pride or shame have anything to do with whether it is true or not?

I think it is sad, but it is still true. The sad, sad truth.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #159)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:45 AM

163. You think a board at least nominally dedicated to electing Democrats,

less than a week out from the election, has to provide the OP or anyone else with reasons to cast a vote for Barack Obama? Do you really?

Routinely, long before starting to post here, I saw those accomplishments continually derided as "The List" and those who posted them vilified as little better than Republicans, or worse. Are you saying that having someone tout those accomplishments one more time for the benefit of the irretrievably jaded would actually change their minds?

Yeah, that's "sad, sad" alright. Just not for the reasons you seem to think so. If it smells like horseshit, I call it horseshit.

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Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #163)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:39 AM

224. if, as you say, this board is dedicated to electing Democrats

then the board should be prepared to persuade people to vote for Democrats.

As for "the List", it should be derided if the best people can do is repeat somebody else's canned list. How about putting it into your own words?

The OP is from Missouri - the "Show Me" state. Thus, if you say that Obama has been a good President, the Missourian will say "show me" instead of just automatically believing it because you say so. If, for example, he was looking for a reason to vote Jay Nixon for Governor, I would respond, first, with sympathy, because I think Nixon sucks. He's a Democrat, but he still sucks. He is from the DINO wing of the Democratic Party. But there are still plenty of good solide reasons to vote AGAINST Dave Spence http://www.democraticunderground.com/1061299

Yes, I am saying that it is better to engage people you disagree with. To provide them with some facts and logic and hope and to try to change their minds. That just wanting people to shut up and go away is no way to relate to your fellow humans. It is no way to help elect Democrats.

That for some people, they will be motivated to help if they get the sincere message that "yes, Obama sucks, but it is still important to defeat Romney".

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #224)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:24 PM

232. Again, days out from the election

after nearly four years of the Obama presidency, the OP needs to be persuaded by having "The List" reiterated to him, albeit reworded somehow? The President's tenure, both the good and the bad, is a matter of public record, and presumably someone as active on a large political discussion board like this one for as long a time as the OP has been would probably be pretty well-informed, or at least consider himself to be

You're right, engaging people you disagree with is a good idea. Tolerating childish, ego-soaked, up-is-down nonsense is something else entirely.

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Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #232)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:20 PM

237. you are apparently new to this board

Being active on this board for the last four years has meant precisely that - one is very well informed of all the ways that Obama sucks. You see, we are NOT mere Democrats. We are, presumably, progressive Democrats. Democrats from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

A wing that Obama has spent four years pretty much betraying.

At least according to the bulk of posts here, although I could not help noticing a bunch of "new" posters. People who had been members for a year or two, only had 118 posts and suddenly piped up with an OP "I am so disgusted with Obama" and much of DU jumped in to agree, or, as I said - to sing along http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/162

But I spent the first two years of the Obama administration here feeling like the Lone Ranger as I tried to defend Obama's various betrayals and "compromises". For example http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/131

Then, he crossed my Rubicon. He refused, deliberately refused to fight to end the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

For me, that was the final straw that broke this camel's back. We used to say about George W. Bush supporters "good grief, they will support Bush no matter what he does".

Frankly, I am somewhat puzzled about the depth and passion of Obama support. It seems very tribal. Obama seems to be able to betray every Democratic ideal and supposed Democrats just cheer and clap. He can propose cuts to social security. He can promote tax cuts for the rich as a way to creat jobs He can lie and claim his tax cuts are really for the middle class

I mean, damn, didn't we used to get furious when Bush did those things? It seems like that was nothing but posturing. At least for some people.

Up is down indeed.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #237)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:24 PM

238. Thanks for making your position clear.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:58 PM

151. Bro, I gotta say, your timing really, really sucks here.

Romney would be worse than Bush, and we gotta make sure Obama wins.

IMO, not a good idea to be dissin' the Prez and possibly dampening enthusiasm 4 days before the election.

We need to get this done, and then figure out what we need to do later, when the threat of Romney is no longer hanging over our heads.



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Response to Zorra (Reply #151)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:23 PM

294. The OP said they were voting for Obama.

Zorra, I think you need to read further of his post and not jump to conclusions.

We are all on "pins and needles" about what Romney winning this election might mean...but, it doesn't mean we need to do "hero worship" that Obama's track record (whatever the excuses) falls short of why Progressives got behind him to work to elect him the first time.

I understand how stressed we all are these days...but, I thought the OP made a valid case about their reservations about Obama. I have them also...but, I early voted for him today in NC.

I have to say....that I wanted to write in Dennis Kucinich for President...but, given that I'm in a Swing State...I did what I had to do to save us from Romney. But, I'm not hopeful that Obama is suddenly going to change into a Union Supporter and really get us totally out of our wars and use the resources for war for Rebuilding our Infrastructure that Climate Change is showing us needs to be done ASAP. Nor, will he ever go after the Banksters who brought down our Global Financial System which caused such pain and suffering all over the world. He would say that it "wasn't his fault" but he was elected to do something about our country gone bad for decades.

Anyway...I voted for him...but, not holding my breath that there will be any more "CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN" going forward in his next for years than there was in his first four years.

Peace!

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Response to KoKo (Reply #294)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:03 PM

304. I know. My beef is with the timing of the OP. It could have been posted after

the election. I did not jump to any conclusions whatsoever. I knew pretty much exactly what the OP was going to say, and mean, the moment I saw the subject line. I get it. I understand everything MH is saying; I'm pretty sure you must be very well aware of this already.

I simply believe that it is neither constructive nor productive to make posts of this nature so close to the election.

There are disappointed people out there who are having a hard time voting for Obama, for the exact reasons that are posted in the OP, but these people intend to do vote for Obama anyway. So what's the sense in making them feel worse, or possibly influencing them not to vote at all, at this late date?

We can worry about all the other stuff after Tuesday. I guarantee it will all still be there.

Hopefully, so will Obama.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #304)


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:58 PM

152. you are right about the two parties

The republicans have moved to the far right wing. The moderates have been chased off. Also, the liberal democrats have been told to go away because they can't win a general election.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:07 AM

156. Demonstrative melancholia...

Morrissey does it so much better.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:22 AM

162. MadHound, thanks for your post.

Everything you mentioned is valid, although I disagree with your conclusion. After Obama gets re-elected, I have high hopes that those of us left of center can mobilize, as Frances Fox Piven urged, and work to re-invigorate a progressive, if not leftist, agenda. It's up to us. And, it's feasible. Despite my disappointment with many of Obama's actions, there were also many bright spots to cling to. His NLRB appointments are one, which led to action against Boeing's decision to shift production to right to work North Carolina. But there were many, many other laudable accomplishments.

The thing is, as Daniel Ellsberg and others have noted, and as anyone who follows the news realizes, this election is an epic battle to save our nation from a total fascist takeover. Our most basic rights would be under seige and extinguished in a Romney/Ryan administation. Cherished legacies of the New Deal would be totally anhiliated. The public school system would be terminated. The most massive transfer of wealth in the history of the nation would ensue. Separation of church and state would end. Public lands, including national parks, would be put under state control and then sold off to the highest corporate bidders for development.

I could go on and on and list the catastrophic consequences of a Romney/Ryan administration.

I live in a very blue corner of a blue state. Many of us here in Los Angeles have been disappointed in Obama.

But we are in a state of literal terror at the thought of Romney. We have donated to OFA, phone-banked, blogged, in the effort to re-elect Obama. We're not doing so reluctantly, or feeling we are choosing the lesser of two evils. We are doing it both because we believe Obama will accomplish great things his second term, and because we are desperately fighting to save our nation from the sociopathic monster Romney.

eta: there's another reason we are fighting so hard to re-elect Obama. We are sickened at the unimaginably ghastly hatred toward Obama emanating from the right, for no other reason than hatred, racism, evil. I have heightened respect and admiration for Obama, and for this reason, alone, want to see him re-elected.

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Response to amborin (Reply #162)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:08 AM

179. Mad Mind's latest diatribe is just more purist BULLSHIT. People need to find reality.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:30 AM

168. I will admit having my own issues.

 

I've written about some of mine before. Candidate Obama promised to end the PATRIOT ACT, and reauthorized it with a signature at the last minute. It is one of a few pet peeves of mine, that we so easily wipe out the rights protected under the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments. Do I think he will get rid of it in the second term? No. But on the other hand, neither will Robme, so its a wash there. Both seem dedicated to ignoring these flagrant violations of the Constitution. Guantanamo Bay's torture camp is another issue with me, and again I don't see Robme doing anything about it. Now, I can give him a pass on Guantanamo Bay, because the Congress refused to fund the shut down. But that bothers me too, because DEMOCRATIC Party members voted to continue torturing and indefinite detention of those accused, but who will never have a trial.

You mention the Corporate control of the Country. I was thinking about that very thing when President Obama promised to appoint a Secretary of Business. So the whore the corporate masters speak to will either be in the Oval Office, or one step below the Oval Office. Some choice there right?

What really bothers me is I grew up in Southern California and reached voting age in the 1980's. That was when we all stood for certain things. We were opposed to Reagan's radical military agenda. We were opposed to police abusing the rights of the accused. We were all united in our efforts to end the threat of Nuclear War. We were mocked, but we stood firm about our ideals. We believed in those things, and the Politicians we nominated reflected our beliefs, and voted that way. Now, we elect the Democrats because they are Democrats, even if they're to the right of Satan because we need the seat to get the majority. Of course, to get the vote from the fascist we have to keep moving right.

I'm not suggesting we not vote for Democrats, far from that. I am suggesting that after the election, win, lose, or draw. We need to have a conversation about what it means to be a Democrat. Some core principals we can all agree upon. We should have a handful, perhaps a half dozen guiding principals that we all agree upon. Womens Rights, Percentage of budget that will go toward education, Percentage of budget that should go toward the Military Industrial Complex in non war times.

In other words, guiding principals that we can use to send a message to our elected officials, that we want change, in the way they govern, and the way we support.

I saw a video were 47 cents of every dollar paid in taxes goes to the Military Industrial Complex in the form of the DHS, Military, CIA, and all the other "security" flag waving nonsense. That is insane. That is what the Nazi's did, and we did to defeat them. That was an all out no civilian car produced rationed gasoline and tires war effort.

I know this rambled a bit, and I'm sorry. Like you my support for the Democrats is absolute, but like you I have serious concerns about the direction of this party, and our nation.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:34 AM

169. Voting For Obama or Against Robme does it really matter?

 

I am not voting for Pres Obama, I am voting against the GOP, period.


I wish it was not this way but it is.

I should vote for the candidate whose policies and beliefs are closer to my own but that candidate cannot win.

Normally I would vote for that person but being in a battleground state my vote will actually have some meaning this time around so I will cast my vote for Pres Obama knowing that we will get 4 more years of the same, with no change and hopefully my vote will prevent RobMe and his RW pals from getting even more power.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:12 AM

174. Rec'ed

 

Too many Democrats are fine with these shitty policies because apparently they like this guy's personality and family.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:29 AM

175. That's the spirit! Remember, it's across to the hospital, down to the morgue.

Last edited Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:31 AM - Edit history (2)

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:05 AM

177. So MAD MIND is at it again...YAWN.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:10 AM

181. There is a difference, and if you cannot grasp that, you really should probably join the green party

Under the circumstances with the blue dogs, republicans, and racists, Obama managed to get a lot done. Incidently, we will be out of Afghanistan in 2014, and there most likely will be two supreme court justices that will be chosen in the next term.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:11 AM

182. It's your own fault if you find Obama the lesser of two evils...

For the rest of us, people who actually live in the real world and have a lot on the line, we happily vote for Obama and believe he's not only a far better alternative to what the Republicans have nominated, but also the greatest thing liberalism has had on its side since FDR.

Yeah, I'm sure some of you out of touch, in your own bubble liberals will shoot back that I'm out of my mind thinkin' this. But you're absolutely, positively wrong and frankly, so deep in the woods that even debating the matter with you would be about as pointless as talking to a FOX News watching moron.

It's remarkable how selfish and whiny so many on the left are and it's down right pathetic they cling to these issues and ignore all the good Obama has done at progressing your ideology - the liberal ideology.

You know, it's an unfortunate reality that liberals live in an entirely different world than the rest of Americans (and to be fair, so do conservatives). They live in a world where they believe their ideology is pure and above reproach - that it's so sound, so popular, that we should have no problem selling it. And yet, when you step back and survey the politics of America, specifically over the past 40 years, you'll see a country that has rejected your ideology at every turn.

I've often asked this question, and I rarely get good answers, outside everything that has happened the past four years ... what victories have we seen from the left on a whole host of issues? If you're honest to yourself, you'll admit that we have to reach all the way back to the 60s, when liberalism was at its peak, to find any point where it was relevant in American politics. It certainly wasn't there in the 70s when Nixon, on the backs of the fundamentalist Christians, was doing his best to roll back every civil rights action created out of its movement a decade or so before. It wasn't in the 80s, when Reagan's presidency sole intent was to roll back the entire infrastructure of the New Deal and it really hasn't seen any advancements in the 90s and 00s - as triangulation and the Bush Era of crony capitalism and tax cuts and war dominated the spectrum.

So, for all the whining about Obama and how he's not good enough, you certainly haven't proven, as an ideology, of having enough clout, and success, to dramatically alter the country ... at least, not until 2008. Those are the hard, sobering facts about everything you believe.

Prior to Obama, whether you want to believe this or not, politicians running for president didn't openly embrace gay marriage and they certainly didn't talk about abortion as strongly, and as reassuringly, as the President has done the last four years. I promise you, if you pore over every single speech Bill Clinton gave as president in the 90s, you won't find any rhetoric, or fierce advocacy for abortion. No, I'm not suggesting Clinton was pro-life, but his rhetoric was decidedly safe and when he talked about abortion, it was almost always in the terms of them being safe, legal ... and rare.

Prior to Obama, no candidate would dare speak the 'R' word - you know, regulation. For decades prior, every president from Carter to Bush actually embraced deregulation. They deregulated everything from transportation, to media ... to Wall Street and where it'd get us? Obama is the first candidate in a generation who has made regulation acceptable again. So acceptable, in fact, that even the Republican nominee decided, in an attempt to run to the middle, he was all the sudden for regulation too!

Prior to Obama, no president had ever successfully reformed our healthcare system ... and those who tried failed and took a beating for it. It was a major reason Carter lost much of his clout early in his presidency and led to a loss of support and a divided party by 1980 ... that being a direct result of his loss to Reagan. In the 90s, Clinton's presidency almost was single-handedly done in by trying to reform healthcare ... and what did he get out of it? Not even an inch of movement in the positive direction. He spent all his political capital on doing something that eventually failed and left him with hardly any legacy-defining legislation.

Prior to Obama, no president, at least since the Kennedy-Johnson years, would dare talk of government actually helping the American people. From Nixon through Bush, the government was the bogeyman ... an era defined by Reagan and the ultra-conservative small government libertarians who infested the Republican party in the 60s, 70s and 80s. You know, the men and women who came to power during the Goldwater revolution in '64. It was, after all, President Clinton who, in his 1996 State of the Union address, told the American people that the era of Big Government was over. Oh that scary big government that's so big and out of control that it'll take away all your rights!

Yeah, Obama isn't advocating for the government like maybe FDR did in the 30s, but considering how far to the right the country crept after the 60s ended, it's no surprise. But he's made it so that government isn't a nasty word anymore. For the first time in a generation, a good number of people don't look at the government as the bad guys out to get 'em. Sure, there are a lot of 'em out there, and they'll certainly vote Mitt Romney, but in the end, when you get down to it, Obama has changed the mindset of America and government ... and all you have to do is look no further than what happened with Hurricane Sandy. When Katrina hit, the failure of the U.S. government to act kind of solidified this idea that they were too incompetent and that they couldn't do jack - that has changed. Now you've got a Republican governor praising the government for its quickness.

More Americans believe in government regulation than a decade ago. More Americans are becoming comfortable with the idea of government fixing the healthcare crisis ... when, for so long, they couldn't trust the government to do it. Beyond the manufactured tea-party assholes, a great deal of Americans got behind some of the stimulus ... after being told, for years and years, that government could not create jobs.

None of this was happening prior to Obama. So, you can shit on him, bitch about how you don't want to vote for him, but the reality is ... and you can dismiss this all you want (though it doesn't change the facts), Obama has done more for liberalism, for your ideology, than any president since, probably Roosevelt himself.

Every liberal should happily vote for him because before he came along, the ideology was rotting away. Now, for the first time since the 60s, really, the ideology has some influence. But the quickest way to do away with that influence is by voting Mitt Romney into office because you'll tell every Democrat who ever runs for office again that populism and progressive politics won't get you reelected.

If you want liberalism to survive, you better damn well pray Obama wins. Because I guarantee you, if he loses, so does your ideology.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:23 AM

186. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)


Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:46 AM

202. Wow. That's a damn good post.

Didn't expect something this good. This OP doesn't deserve it.

Well done.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:24 PM

233. You should make that an OP

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:16 PM

253. OP is PWNED... well done sir

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:17 PM

266. DI, I have a gorgeous niece. Will you marry her?

First you have to convert her from being a republican. But you can do it. And she really is drop dead gorgeous.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:49 PM

280. Repost this as an original post.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #182)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 08:34 AM

333. Thank you for your civility,

 

But let's go over the points you bring up.

If you honestly think that Obama is the greatest thing for liberalism since FDR, well, quite frankly you're wrong. Obama is in no way a liberal, and his policies and positions prove that. Continuing the tax cut policy of his predecessors as some form of economic stimulus? Most liberals believe in Keynesian measures, not trickle down. Liberals wouldn't take on a healthcare policy, birthed in RW think tanks and promoted by Republicans as the way to reform healthcare. Nor would liberals codify the abuse of civil liberties started under Bush. I could continue with more facts here, but let's move on, there is only so much time.

So liberals are "selfish and whiny", why? For pushing forward their agenda in anyway they think is right. But isn't that what every other group under this so called big tent party does? So why shouldn't liberals?

You can honestly sit there and say that liberal ideology has been rejected over the past forty years? That's some mighty good self delusion you've got going on, considering that it was liberals who have been one of the major driving forces behind women's rights, gay rights, no nukes, no war, liberalized drug policy, and a whole host of other issues, social and otherwise. We've won our victories mainly without the help of mainstream centerist Democrats, sometimes in spite of them.

However I concede that liberals have been fighting in losing cause over the past forty years, of course it's hard not to, when both conservatives and Democrats are arrayed against you. Our victories, in stopping nuclear power, in preserving our environment, in advancing womens' rights and gay rights have come is spite of Democrats, not because of them.

The fact of the matter, born out by his policies and actions, is that Obama is governing as a center-right president. Yes, he sort of embraced gay rights(after much pushing be the LGBT community and their liberal friends). But in the interim, Obama has continued the ongoing destruction of the Constitution, what with codifying wireless wirtaps and other civil liberty excesses of the Bush administration.

You're right though, no president prior from Carter to Nixon has embraced regulation. Carter started the deregulation madness, and Clinton continued it, what with the '96 Telecom Act and doing away with Glass-Steagal among others. Yes, Obama instituted regulations on the financial sector and healthcare sector, weak regulations that do little to curb the corporate excesses and serve mainly as window dressing. You want a Democrat to be perceived as a liberal when it comes to regulation, then reinstate Glass Steagal, don abolish it.

Speaking of healthcare, that you consider the ACA to be a success simply shows how far the expectations of some Democrats have fallen, embracing a healthcare reform policy who's origins lie in the Heritage Foundation and N