So, bottom line, did Santorum's wife have an abortion or not?

[mistertrickster]

By "abortion," I mean an induced abortion to protect the mother's health, not a spontaneous abortion as a result of infection.

I've seen this reported both ways--it was induced or it was spontaneous. If it were the former, Santorum is a massive hypocrite and should be derided for it. If it were the latter, it's a tragedy and the family is deserving only of sympathy on this matter.

Has anyone proven this one way or the other?

[Demeter]

1. I don't know, I don't care, and it's none of my business

[mistertrickster]

2. Generally, I'd agree. But doesn't Santorum's hard-line make this an issue? nt

[Demeter]

13. No

The fact that he voices an opinion at all disqualifies him for any public office, IMO.

We the People have got to call these would-be "leaders" to heel.

[SharonAnn]

35. He "respected her decision" not to have one. But he won't let you make your own decision.

[justiceischeap]

3. According to the following Salon.com article

It is technically correct to say that Karen Santorum had a septic spontaneous abortion, but that’s a medical term for an involuntary event that is different from “induced abortion,” which describes a willful termination.

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/06/karen_santorum_did_not_have_an_abortion/

If that's true, she had a miscarriage. However, the doctor interviewed for the above article said, without anyone seeing the medical records, there is no way to say if they're telling the truth about what happened.

[mistertrickster]

7. Yup, I saw that too.

Given that Santorum would like to expose other women to investigation of their medical files, shouldn't they be releasing theirs?

That would be one point where'd he be vulnerable.

[justiceischeap]

24. I agree that he's opened his family up to this scrutiny

but as a woman that he wants to violate, I'm not a big proponent of making what should be private, family business something for public consumption. I know it reeks of hypocrisy but what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

[roguevalley]

28. I heard that she lived with an abortionist,

may have had one with him and wasn't married. I also heard they both were okay with abortion until they got married and decided to become Mary and Joseph. Anyone corroborate that for me? I have heard it several times now.

[mzteris]

5. article from 1997

explains the whole thing pretty well.

http://mysite.verizon.net/lardil/id81.html

[mistertrickster]

12. Very good . . . it was spontaneous and doesn't exactly conflict with Santorum's position

QUOTE from link above

The Santorums, according to an account written by the senator for today's Commentary Page in The Inquirer, struggled mightily to avoid the abortion option.

Ultimately, they did not have to make a decision; nature made it for them. Karen went into premature labor from an infection, delivering a boy who had a fatal abnormality. The child died two hours later.

In an interview, the Santorums said they would have authorized an abortion had there been no other choice . . .

Santorum opposes abortion "except in the cases of rape, incest or [to save] the life of the mother.'' He believes Roe v. Wade should be reversed so that states could regulate and restrict abortion, and opposes public funding of abortion.

END QUOTE

So even if they had opted for induced labor/abortion, it wouldn't be contradictory to Santorum's stated position.

Of course, enforcing such a position will make patients less safe and their records less private.

[niyad]

33. this, of course, is the same santorum who says that women who have been raped have no need for an

exception to his anti-abortion stance, because, according to this medical genius, women who have been raped excrete an enzyme that prevents pregnancy.

[mistertrickster]

34. Shakes head--he's stuck on stupid . . . nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. This personal anecdote proves how private is the issue and why it needs to remain a legal option

between a Doctor and the patient.

[mistertrickster]

8. Which is exactly what Santorum won't allow FOR OTHERS. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. well, he is a dumbass and that proves this.

[jorno67]

10. I thought I read somewhere that she was given oxicontin to induce labor...

so at 20 weeks - that's a partial birth abortion, right?

[Capitalocracy]

18. No, no, no, you've got it all wrong.

It wasn't a "partial birth abortion", it was an induced labor followed by a birth. Remember, these are Republicans: once you're out of the womb, you're on your own. The fact that that partially-formed fetus couldn't survive is nobody's fault but his own.

He should've gotten a job and pulled himself up by the bootstraps.

[TexasProgresive]

22. Hadn't heard that but it would be the hormone, oxytocin not the pain killer oxycontin.

The use of oxytocin does not always indicate inducing labor-see below

Uterine stimulants (uterotonics) are medications that cause, or increase the frequency and intensity of, uterine contractions. These drugs are used to induce (start) or augment (stimulate) labor, facilitate uterine contractions following a miscarriage, induce abortion, or reduce hemorrhage following childbirth or abortion.

http://www.enotes.com/uterine-stimulants-reference/uterine-stimulants-172503

[jorno67]

23. yep...you're right!

That makes sense - my wife was given that for all 3 of our kids (over due).

Sorry for the confusion!

[The Second Stone]

11. It's private unless she makes it public

and we should respect that, regardless of what her husband does.

[mistertrickster]

14. I have to disagree with that. It's a double standard.

Santorum has be held to the standard he would impose on others.

[rfranklin]

15. Sorry but they have publicized this...she wrote a book and included this story...

there is no reasonable expectation of privacy.

Gabriel was the couple's eighth pregnancy and he survived only two hours. In her book, Karen Santorum wrote about bringing the body home to their other children.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/rick-santorum-dead-baby-critics-lambasted-families-grieve/story?id=15306750

[redqueen]

16. I'm not sure about proof,

but the reporting here seems to indicate that she did not.

http://oursilverribbon.org/blog/?p=188

[FSogol]

17. I agree with the Salon article. DU'er, lapislzi summed it up best here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=123831

[redqueen]

20. I agree.

I read something that claimed she did in fact abort, and now I wish I hadn't taken it at face value.

[moriah]

19. Only sourcing I've seen for Pitocin administration was a 2005 article.

Their statements in the years immediately following their child's death say they did not actually accept Pitocin.

The 2005 article claims they did but gives no source except their book about their son for the entire paragraph, and their book isn't available to be searched online through to find out if it was said in the book. I'm not about to go buy the thing.

-------

Regardless of if they're hypocrites or not, though, we don't have to be.

[HappyMe]

21. From what I have read, I'm sure the massive infection she had

caused her to lose the baby.

[mercuryblues]

25. according to this interview she did

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/01/06/liberal-web-site-lies-claims-santorums-wife-had-abortion/


Karen Santorum’s difficult pregnancy and resultant life-saving, induced early delivery is no secret; in a 2004 interview with NPR’s Terry Gross, her husband characterized the 1996 procedure as a harrowing but necessary. Karen, in her 19th week of pregnancy, received a risky surgery to save a pregnancy that doctors thought had little chance of survival. After the surgery, she came down with an infection, and doctors told Rick that unless the source of the infection — the fetus — was removed, his wife would die and his already-born children would be motherless. The doctor also told Santorum that his wife’s fetus would not survive outside of the womb. According to Santorum, Karen went into labor as a result of the antibiotics, and then doctors gave her a drug that further induced labor. She delivered, and unfortunately the doctors were right.


As soon as they gave her the meds to speed up the labor, she went from having a spontaneous abortion to having a therapudic abortion. A choice he will deny every other woman in the country, if he has his way.

[moriah]

26. Anyone able to find the actual transcript/video of the 2004 interview?

Given the fact that all obstetric emergencies are extremely complicated, I'd rather see his exact words than a 3rd-hand paraphrase.

[mzteris]

36. from one of the first articles written about it:

May 4, 1997

Karen was in her 19th week of pregnancy . . . the fetus Karen was carrying had a fatal defect and was going to die.

. . .the Santorums decided on long-shot intrauterine surgery to correct an obstruction of the urinary tract called posterior urethral valve syndrome. . . . The incision in the womb carried a high risk of infection.

Two days later, at home in the Pittsburgh suburb of Verona, Karen Santorum became feverish. . . . unless the source of the infection, the fetus, was removed from Karen's body, she would likely die.

At minimum, the doctor said, Karen had to be given antibiotics intravenously or she might go into septic shock and die.

. . . Once they agreed to use antibiotics, they believed they were committing to delivery of the fetus, which they knew would most likely not survive outside the womb.

. . . Santorum agreed to start his wife on intravenous antibiotics ``to buy her some time,'' he said.



Their volitional actions directly resulted in a premature birth causing the baby to die. Sounds like an abortion to me.

[moriah]

27. Found the interview. No mention of Pitocin or induction in the interview.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3878884

So another possible source for this rumor discredited.

[mercuryblues]

29. I just listened

to it. Why would an anti-choice website report that as a fact?

[moriah]

30. The anti-choice site was quoting Jezebel, who said it.

It's all a huge mess of he-said she-said... meh....

[mercuryblues]

31. from the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/magazine/22SANTORUM.html?ei=5088&en=83d72ed75fbada1d&ex=1274414400&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all


The childbirth in 1996 was a source of terrible heartbreak -- the couple were told by doctors early in the pregnancy that the baby Karen was carrying had a fatal defect and would survive only for a short time outside the womb. According to Karen Santorum's book, ''Letters to Gabriel: The True Story of Gabriel Michael Santorum,'' she later developed a life-threatening intrauterine infection and a fever that reached nearly 105 degrees. She went into labor when she was 20 weeks pregnant. After resisting at first, she allowed doctors to give her the drug Pitocin to speed the birth. Gabriel lived just two hours.

[mistertrickster]

32. Wow . . . a lot of conflicting evidence here . . .

I thought I had it figured out at noon, heh.

[moriah]

37. That's the 2005 article I mentioned. But what sourcing other than the book for the statement?

I'm not about to go buy the book.