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Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:57 PM

The Billy Graham bashing threads are misguided

his son has been pulling an Edith Wilson act (look it up) for years. The man had a great (and earlier not so great) record on inclusion and pluralism. His son is a total dick and also behind all of this closed minded crap. Again, google Edith Wilson.

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Reply The Billy Graham bashing threads are misguided (Original post)
arely staircase Oct 2012 OP
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #1
Logical Oct 2012 #2
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #3
arely staircase Oct 2012 #7
Logical Oct 2012 #10
CreekDog Oct 2012 #21
slampoet Oct 2012 #28
piechartking Oct 2012 #4
arely staircase Oct 2012 #9
JI7 Oct 2012 #5
grantcart Oct 2012 #6
JI7 Oct 2012 #13
Le Taz Hot Oct 2012 #27
quinnox Oct 2012 #8
Rocky888 Oct 2012 #11
Tutonic Oct 2012 #12
Arugula Latte Oct 2012 #14
still_one Oct 2012 #15
arely staircase Oct 2012 #16
JI7 Oct 2012 #17
CreekDog Oct 2012 #29
Daemonaquila Oct 2012 #18
cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #19
liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #20
FreeState Oct 2012 #22
CreekDog Oct 2012 #30
Ichingcarpenter Oct 2012 #23
cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #24
CreekDog Oct 2012 #25
cali Oct 2012 #26
sofia14x Oct 2012 #31

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:03 AM

1. Yeah you make a good point. The man is not in the position to be taking the leadership role...

... in this. His children are mean spoiled brats that are not Christ like.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:05 AM

2. Bullsht....

Like when he said AIDs was gods judgement?

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Response to Logical (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:07 AM

3. Figures he would have said that. And like his friend Reagan he did nothing to help Aids patients...

.... until he was forced too.

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Response to Logical (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:15 AM

7. i don't defend any such comment, especially unsourced but here is a pretty good summary

of a complex life that I wil not as easily as you force to fit my stereotypes.

Politics

Graham is a registered member of the Democratic Party. In 1960 he was opposed to the candidacy of John F. Kennedy because he was Catholic, and worked "behind the scenes" to encourage influential Protestant ministers to speak out against him. Graham met with a conference of Protestant ministers in Montreux, Switzerland during the 1960 campaign, to discuss their mobilizing congregations to defeat Kennedy. He did not comment publicly on the election. According to the PBS Frontline program, God in America (2010), Episode 5, Graham also organized a meeting in September 1960 of hundreds of Protestant ministers in Washington, DC to this purpose; Norman Vincent Peale led the meeting. This was shortly before Kennedy's speech on the separation of church and state in Houston, Texas, which was considered to be successful in meeting concerns of many voters.

Graham leaned toward the Republicans during the presidency of Richard Nixon whom he had met and befriended as vice president under Dwight Eisenhower. He did not completely ally himself with the later religious right, saying that Jesus did not have a political party. He has given his support to various political candidates over the years.

He refused to join Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority in 1979, saying: "I'm for morality, but morality goes beyond sex to human freedom and social justice. We as clergy know so very little to speak with authority on the Panama Canal or superiority of armaments. Evangelists cannot be closely identified with any particular party or person. We have to stand in the middle in order to preach to all people, right and left. I haven't been faithful to my own advice in the past. I will be in the future."

According to a 2006 Newsweek interview, "For Graham, politics is a secondary to the Gospel.... When Newsweek asked Graham whether ministers—whether they think of themselves as evangelists, pastors or a bit of both—should spend time engaged with politics, he replied: 'You know, I think in a way that has to be up to the individual as he feels led of the Lord. A lot of things that I commented on years ago would not have been of the Lord, I'm sure, but I think you have some—like communism, or segregation, on which I think you have a responsibility to speak out.'"

In 2012, Graham publicly endorsed the Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney. Shortly after, references to Mormonism as a cult were removed from Graham's website.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 03:29 AM

21. I can bash him since he bashed the Jews

caught on a Nixon tape.

sounds like you want to believe a fairy tale about Billy Graham rather than the truth.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:56 AM

28. +1000. It was the one chance to see how Billy acted behind closed doors and we saw he was a Bigot.

case closed.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:08 AM

4. Still...

You can make the case to Christians you know about this whole snafu:

Put it in simple terms about their choices:

1) You actually believe your own leaders and principles, and won't vote for a Mormon because you think it goes against your religion. OR

2) You admit that your beliefs are shit and winning a secular election is more important than what the majority of your church thinks is correct. (In which case, aren't you shitting on your religion, then?) OR

3) You can see that your side holds its own principles in disdain (whenever there's something TRULY important going on - like a Presidential election) and vote Obama (or just stay home).

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Response to piechartking (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:18 AM

9. thank you for narrowing my choices for me

eom

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:09 AM

5. He is a Racist, he is no better than Sununu , probably worse because he claims to be some moral

leader.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:15 AM

6. Billy Graham was never for inclusion or pluralism.



Billy Graham preached a single intolerant path to salvation.

More to the point as one of the leading bible thumping voices, ultimately the greatest, to rise out of the South he could have had an impact on the beatings, the lynchings and the entire civil rights struggle.

He never said one god damn word about it during the 60s and we now know from the tapes that he was clearly not only a racist but an antisemtic sob.

Billy Graham was a superficial bible thumper who preached a non biblical myth of personal salvation that was consistent with a growing individualist consumer society but had very little to do with first century Christianity.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:23 AM

13. good point, and remembering McGovern , there WERE people who fought on the right side

and they are the ones who deserve credit and respect.

Fuck Billy Graham, fucking bigoted piece of shit.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:50 AM

27. Dead. On.

And this re the 1960's Civil Rights Movement . . . . "He never said one god damn word about it during the 60s and we now know from the tapes that he was clearly not only a racist but an antisemtic sob. "

Catholic priests, clergy from other protestant denominations, rabbis ALL joined in in the Civil Rights marches. Where was Graham? Cuddling up to Nixon.

Billy Graham started out as a revivalist preacher -- the hellfire and brimstone type that USED to be the fringe in this country right up until the time the Republicans brought them in in 1980 to help elect Reagan. Now, not only won't they go away they're getting elected!

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:17 AM

8. He is America's pope

 

I got to give him his due for that. The guy is like the pope in terms of his status and influence, but for America. I can respect this, he has been at this a long, long time. I don't have to agree with his religion to give him credit for this.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:21 AM

11. Unlike father

He is only about money and power. I still say, any church organization preaching politics should start paying taxes?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:22 AM

12. Ok but riddle me this.

Has Billy been abandoned by his legal and ministry advisors? I can't believe that he handed the reigns entirely to Franklin. Billy may be be frail and feeble but I believe that he still has his lucid moments. Franklin was never a bright child but I don't think that he would have washed the site of its reference to Mormonism asa Cult without some approval by Billy or his advisors.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:34 AM

14. Ehh. He's been another big time charlatan, pushing his snake oil on the ignorant masses.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:45 AM

15. I disagree. If you heard the nixon tapes, he had no problem bashing the Jews with nixon.

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Response to still_one (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:49 AM

16. that is the main reason for my qualifier for his early career

eom

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:51 AM

17. early career ? he was in his 50s

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 11:52 AM

29. his anti-semitism wasn't in his early career, it was in the 1970's with Nixon

and you're 100% wrong to refer to people who call out Billy Graham's bigotry as "bashing".

you do realize you have bashed DUers, don't you?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:41 AM

18. Bollocks.

All bible-thumpers, especially those who practice that filthy art on TV and radio, would never be missed if they mysteriously fell into a pit if quick-lime some dark night.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:52 AM

19. Yes, by the incredibly low standards set by backward bigots and morons he was awesome.

He worked tirelessly to make American life suck, but there were people who were worse.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 02:03 AM

20. I have to admit I'm a little hypocritical about my prejudice against evangelicals

I try to come off as tolerant of all faiths but the truth is I am mistrustful of evangelicals and I will tell you why. Underneath their niceties, their agenda is ALWAYS to convert. I know. My father has been after me and my kids for years. It doesn't matter how nice they come off their ultimate agenda is to convert you. And their attitude that its okay if you don't convert now because in the end everyone will bow down to God. This is especially true of how they feel toward Jews. They play nice with Jews now but they know in their hearts that when the time comes even the Jews will bow down to God. It is so condescending. Do I think Billy Graham was inclusive and pluralist? No. I don't.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 03:50 AM

22. The man is a homophobic bigot

I could care less what he was, what matters is today and the future.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/bigot
bigot
noun /ˈbɪg.ət/ disapproving

Definition
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who thinks that anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong


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Response to FreeState (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 11:54 AM

30. just like Brigham Young was a racist bigot

right?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 04:14 AM

23. He encouraged Nixon to increase the bombing in Nam

He encouraged Nixon to increase the bombing. In April 1969, he sent a thirteen-page letter to Nixon titled, The Confidential Missionary Plan for Ending the Vietnam War. Graham wrote:


"There are tens of thousands of North Vietnamese defectors to bomb and invade the north. Especially let them bomb the dikes which could over night destroy the economy of North Vietnam." (p. 109--From Richard M. Nixon Presidential Materials, National Archive)"There are tens of thousands of North Vietnamese defectors to bomb and invade the north. Especially let them bomb the dikes which could over night destroy the economy of North Vietnam." (p. 109--From Richard M. Nixon Presidential Materials, National Archive)



Bombing the dikes would have resulted in the deaths of a million civilians and destroyed the nation's agricultural system. Bothwell points out that according the Crimes of War Project that this would have amounted to a war crime. Hardly the suggestion of a man of peace.

Graham advised presidents on everything from foreign policy to selection of vice presidents to legislation.


http://www.shuckandjive.org/2007/12/billy-graham-prince-of-war.html

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 04:17 AM

24. So what? Jesus also wanted us to bomb the North Vietnamese dikes.

Or so I have to assume... why else would Billy Graham have supported such a thing?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 04:18 AM

25. You should make a small edit to your post "Billy Graham is misguided"

that's tighter, oh yeah!

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:22 AM

26. He's a disgusting bigot. He's always been a disgusting bigot. You want to go for

revisionist history, go for it. I won't shut up about his vile history.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 11:59 AM

31. ?????

 

?????????????????????

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