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Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:49 AM

Say What You Will About Andrew Sullivan, He Nails It In This Post

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/false-mittmentum.html


Yes, it's amazing that a human being can have so few scruples, such an effortless ease with lying, and literally junk his entire program overnight with nary even an explanation. It's amazing still that polarization in this country would allow evangelicals and Tea Partiers not to start worrying about this chameleon. But this is Romney. He aims to please. He markets "himself" as a product to different demographics. And marketing works, if you are prepared to turn yourself into a soulless, content-free, power-seeking robot.

In other words, Obama has allowed Romney to represent change in a country where the wrong track number is still 54 percent (see above), and the right track number is 40. In that climate, "change" always beats "more of the same". Right now, Romney is "change" and Obama is "more of the same." Advantage: Romney.

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply Say What You Will About Andrew Sullivan, He Nails It In This Post (Original post)
hiphopnation Oct 2012 OP
BeyondGeography Oct 2012 #1
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #2
TwilightGardener Oct 2012 #3
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #5
TwilightGardener Oct 2012 #8
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #15
TwilightGardener Oct 2012 #16
Jennicut Oct 2012 #4
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #7
Bluenorthwest Oct 2012 #13
Mimosa Oct 2012 #28
Jennicut Oct 2012 #19
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #22
Bluenorthwest Oct 2012 #6
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #11
Bluenorthwest Oct 2012 #14
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #17
DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2012 #9
bigtree Oct 2012 #10
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #12
bigtree Oct 2012 #25
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #26
reformist2 Oct 2012 #18
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #20
reformist2 Oct 2012 #23
hiphopnation Oct 2012 #24
backscatter712 Oct 2012 #21
andym Oct 2012 #27
Mimosa Oct 2012 #29

Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:01 AM

1. He nails it in the first paragraph

The second...meh. Romney will capture some middle-of-the-roaders who want change, but it's his hate-filled base that knowingly overlooks his BS that is carrying him. Plus his brand of "change" is a motivator for many Obama voters.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:02 AM

2. HOPING SO!

The whole piece is worth a read.

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:03 AM

3. Obama hasn't "allowed" anything. He has repeatedly

called Mittens on his shape-shifting and endless lying. America doesn't care--it sees a WHITE, Presidenty looking rich guy and gravitates towards him. We were lucky that Obama was up against the ancient, awkward McCain and his pet bimbo the last time. This time it's more of a struggle, but NOT because Obama's done anything but a great job.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:07 AM

5. He's referring to the first debate

And just how much ground he allowed Mittens to gain and how much it's been him clawing back ever since then. I think it's a salient point. I also think O has done a great job. I was among the group who thinks he didn't perform all that horribly that night, so what do I know.

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Response to hiphopnation (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:12 AM

8. I didn't think he did bad. He wasn't high-energy, but he

didn't make any mistakes. Mitt is a train wreck in debates, with gaffes coming out his piehole and sweat beading on his red face, but Obama being a little subdued or looking down at the podium is enough to make him lose the Presidency? That's bullshit--something else is at play. Sullivan needs to get a grip.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:23 AM

15. Agree re: Sully's overreaction

Disagree on Mitt as a train wreck in debates. At the very least, he's been skilled enough in these debates to tighten the race to within a few percentage points in polls where O was ahead by double digits, in some cases. I think it's important to see this with clear eyes. Mitt is a soulless caricature, yes, but he's been a deft, quick-on-his-feet, formidable opponent to Obama in these debates, even though the entire thing has been a ruse.

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Response to hiphopnation (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:31 AM

16. I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing--I see a hyper overly

aggressive nut who garbles his words, says stupid things (like "I love teachers" and "binders full of women") and generally looks like a lying ass.

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:04 AM

4. Except sometimes people don't want change.

Because with Romney, no one has any idea what type of change he offers since he changes positions so much. And that is why Romney never leaped ahead of Obama and controlled the election. Also, Andrew Sullivan has been pretty wrong on a lot of things. Look up his early position on the Iraq War.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:11 AM

7. I'm well aware of his position in the run-up to the Iraq War

which he now admits was wrong. Right, it's encouraging that Obama has been consistently ahead for the balance of the race, it's just so razor close right now and Sully feels Obama ceded much of his advantage in that first debate and has been fighting for his life ever since.

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Response to hiphopnation (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:19 AM

13. And you agree with the magical thinking that 'marketing works'?

Sully was so wrong about Iraq he said at that time he'd never stop apologizing, instead he waited a week and again mounted the pulpit of presumed athourity and resumed pronouncing his ideas as having value. He lied about his apology, just as he lies about everything else. Because it was not just that he supported the war, he also castigated those of us who opposed it and he did so in great detail 'oh they are stuck in the 60's, still bitter, they don't understand Cheney is a hero'. Full of shit, and not just about the war, also about those who opposed it and about their reasons for that opposition. Sully the great wise all knowing...Sully the cheerleader for war crimes.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 01:09 PM

28. x100 Sullivan is an ovesubscribed mediocrity

I'll never forget Sully's strident cheerleading for a war in which he'd never participate and therefore risked nothing. Just like Cheney's coven of neo-cons.

Many years ago when the internet discussion boards were new and Sullivan was not well-known he posted on a now defunct board where I hung out along with some interesting people including a New Orleans MD I knew IRL. Eventually I'd come across columns by Sullivan and see he had affected some of Doc's particular phrases and cool style. Doc was then a riot, very entertaining in those pre-Katrina years. He had a small following. I still post at a board he started.

Anyhow, Sully TV appearances perhaps helped his writing become more authentic to himself, sometimes melodramatic to the point of hysteria. Sully's obsession about Sarah Palin's pregnancy and the birth of Trig was just plain creepy.

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Response to hiphopnation (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:38 AM

19. He needs to let the first debate go already.

He has spent weeks on it.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:45 AM

22. that's the crux of the post, though

is just how much ground O ceded and how much all the time since then has been him clawing back and trying to regain ground lost at that moment. I think it's a salient point. I don't think Obama performed all that awfully, but I don't think it's beyond the realm of feasibility to suggest that the O team should have seen the great Romney shape-shift coming a mile away. Seems like the underestimated him a bit and that's why we have the razor thin leads we have now. Still, I'm encouraged.

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:10 AM

6. Sully is a Republican who cheered for the Iraq invasion, felt comfort in Cheney's

part in the administration and utterly castigated those who opposed the invasion. He's always trying to claim Republican advantage.
'Marketing works'. Well. That's some pronouncement. Marketing works, except when it fails. If marketing always worked, no product marketed strongly would fail, but fact is most new products fail, many films are marketed by marketing geniuses using millions in budge, and the film fails to draw the targeted market. But for Sully 'marketing works'. Whatever he needs to say to make himself sound reasonable, a hard chore for a man who is on record as being far more wrong far more times than the average pundit....

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:17 AM

11. I don't know that Sully is a Republican

A self-proclaimed conservative, yes, though I struggle to even verify how he's conservative (he would say he's a fiscal conservative, whatever that means). But even if he is, he's a Republican who strongly supports the reelection of Barack Obama. For all his awful, histrionic positions in the past, he's made a very strong case for his support of Obama that I think is noteworthy.

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Response to hiphopnation (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:21 AM

14. Yeah, if you trust a man who lied, then said sorry, then lied some more

I do not share you theory that Sully is pro Democratic Party. I think that is a pretense he uses to get attention after he was so deeply destructive to the nation during the Bush administration.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:33 AM

17. eh

I think you ascribe more power to him than is due. I didn't say he was "pro Democratic Party" I said he has mounted a convincing argument in favor of the reelection of Barack Obama and I think that matters. As for his repugnant positions taken in the past, they are exactly that: positions. Opinions. I'm in the camp that believes that people can hold opinions I find odious, wrong, even, but can also change those opinions, over time. I'm in this camp because I know I would want people to be that flexible with me because my mind changes, over time, with retrospect, as more facts come to mind. I understand how difficult it is to see how someone could be so fickle about weighty matters such as war and peace and life and death, but the fact is, they can, they do, they are. Nothing is black and white. But, that's just me.

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:12 AM

9. Andrew Sullivan Is A Weathervane. I Never Cared For Him./nt

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:12 AM

10. what a mess he has been

. . . and this garble of faux compliments is just a set up for his nineteenth nervous breakdown over some poll or some meaningless event.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:19 AM

12. totally

he defends his meltdown after debate #1, says more of a freak out was warranted. I agree that it was hard to watch, but his point is just how much ground O ceded after that debate and I don't know that one can entirely discredit that point.

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Response to hiphopnation (Reply #12)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 12:08 PM

25. I gotta wonder

. . . to what degree do bloggers and our more visible and 'elevated' writers with access to high-profile web sites feel their own contributions matter or are influential in this process. I query this because, there seems to be a disconnect between their waste of print space over Obama's perceived failures in that staged event; yet, so little time spent (contrary to the relentless efforts of the Obama campaign post-debate) to highlight Romney's lies and help de-legitimatize his entire performance based on his total fabrication of . . .everything. The Obama campaign recovered quickly. The point-shift in the polls was contrived by a switch right after the debate to their contrived and bogus 'likely voter' models. Completely fabricated polls were also included in the averages, inflating what likely was no more than a couple point boost for Romney. That meager rise was to be expected, just from allowing him on the stage with the POTUS; just from the visibility. That little shift in the polls took some folks by surprise and I think they overreacted. After all, it was clearly a devastatingly negative press - which was openly and wantonly encouraged by some of our Obama-friendly critics of that debate - that cemented the theatrical impression of a 'win' on a rack of lies, and a 'loss' for a man acting like we expect our Presidents to.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #25)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 12:16 PM

26. Lots of great points and queries there

The one overarching question I come away with from your post is, yes, we expect our Presidents to act that way in certain situations. But he was on that stage in dual contexts: POTUS AND candidate. And, as candidate Obama, I do have to wonder, if we all concede the fact that Romney completely fabricated everything - and we do - why he wasn't more forceful (the way he was in the latter two debates) and refuting, rebutting, and utterly dismantling and unpacking every one of those lies right then and there? He didn't seem prepared to do so, which leads to larger questions about the campaigns readiness and one can blab on endlessly about why that is so, but your point is taken. At some point the seemingly objective blogger echo chamber becomes part of - indeed is - the narrative.

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:36 AM

18. Blogging is horrible for punditry. Too many posts, very few good ideas.


As a result, most of what we all have to wade through is complete garbage. But I get what he does - his job is to keep people permanently clicking on his website. Hey, it's a living.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:41 AM

20. you win the internets

all about Tina Brown and "the clicks"
although I will say, some of his non-punditry related posts are...sticky. His whole "view from your window" thing is cool, other "found items from the web" and opinion pieces not total junk. and yes, you can find that stuff elsewhere on much cooler sites, maintained by actual bona fide peacenicks, but I maintain, the place isn't total garbage.

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Response to hiphopnation (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:49 AM

23. The attention whores shall inherit the earth.

I do agree with you in part - I've seen some interesting stuff on his site - but it still irks me that I only know about his website because he's always blabbing about something, and other people are always repeating it.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:52 AM

24. I'm drawn to his site primarily these days because of his effusive and staunch

support for Barack Obama's reelection. Everything else is secondary.

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:44 AM

21. What a drama queen. n/t

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Response to hiphopnation (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 12:22 PM

27. "a soulless, content-free, power-seeking robot."

Sullivan has a way with words.

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Response to andym (Reply #27)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 01:11 PM

29. A description adapted from one he read, I've little doubt

Sully is the most unoriginal writer around the internet.

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