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Wed Oct 24, 2012, 07:55 AM

One year out of college, women already paid less than men, report finds

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/one-year-out-of-college-women-already-paid-less-than-men-report-finds/2012/10/23/ece71cb0-1d3a-11e2-9cd5-b55c38388962_story.html


Timothy A. Clary/AFP/Getty Images - Graduates listen to President Obama as he delivers the Commencement Address at Barnard College's graduation ceremony in New York on May 14, 2012.

Women are attending college at higher rates than men, graduating in greater numbers and earning higher grades. Yet one year after graduation, women were making only 82 percent of what their male colleagues were paid, according to a report by the American Association of University Women set to be released Wednesday.

Nearly every occupation has long paid men more than women, despite laws aimed at narrowing and dissolving the differences. Often the gap is attributed to men picking careers with higher salaries, women slowing their careers after having children and differences in work experience. The AAUW researchers decided to look at workers when they are most similar — freshly done with their undergraduate studies, lacking vast experience and unlikely to have spouses or children.

They focused on those who graduated during the 2007-08 school year, zeroed in on full-time workers and studied what they earned in 2009, one year after graduation. The women made only 82 percent of what the men were paid, with the average woman making $35,296 while men were paid an average of $42,918.

The report relied on data from an Education Department survey of about 15,000 college graduates via Web or telephone surveys.

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Reply One year out of college, women already paid less than men, report finds (Original post)
xchrom Oct 2012 OP
seabeyond Oct 2012 #1
davidn3600 Oct 2012 #2
exboyfil Oct 2012 #3
ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #4
sl8 Oct 2012 #5
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2012 #6
ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #8
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2012 #7
trumad Oct 2012 #9

Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 08:08 AM

1. totally amazing how anyone with any conscious can purposely make this decision. nt

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 09:20 AM

2. Problem is it seems you are comparing apples and oranges here

Simply averaging all salaries by gender is a bad idea. Too many variables.

There could be a few reasons for the disparity. For example, a job for 3rd shift is not very desirable. It's tough for a company to find a quality applicant to fill that position. So many companies will pay that shift more money. And men are more willing to take graveyard shifts. Im not saying a woman won't or can't. But statistically speaking, the majority of graveyard shift workers are men.

Another example is commuting. Men are more likely to take jobs that are further away from home or where a lot of travel is involved. These also tend to pay higher salaries. Men are more willing to work overtime. Men are more likely to take commission pay jobs. And if they are good, they could end up making a pretty high salary.

There could be a number of reasons why the averages have a gap.

A better statistic would be to compare men and women pay in the same job, equally qualified, working the same hours. If a company is purposely paying one gender more than the other here...then that is illegal. And yes I am sure some companies out there do this. Some companies may also pass women up for promotion because of her gender. Women could face discrimination. Im not saying those things are not true. Im just point out that there are other benign variables that need to be also taken into consideration.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 09:27 AM

3. I would urge girls and young women

who do well in math and science to strongly consider engineering careers. Typical entry salary for engineers is $60K. At least for the three private employers with which I have worked for, women who have a similar skill set to men are often preferred for positions of leadership over those men during the early phases of their careers (this is what I have seen so I am not making a wider argument about women and careers).

Typically women only represent about 10-15% of the student body in mechanical and electrical engineering. We seem to get very few women candidate for positions in my department (we have one woman in a group of about 20 engineers). I think women only account for about 5% of all our engineers (a really low number).

At the higher levels I do think, at least in my current company, that women hit a glass ceiling. We only have one woman VP reporting to the CEO, and she came up the legal/human resources side. We have some women in key technical/manufacuturing supervisory positions, but they don't seem to make it to the top two levels below the CEO (at least not yet). I am so low on the food chain that I do not have a clue as to what goes on at that level.

I have seen several very competent women decide to get off the promotion track in favor of their husband's careers (again this is my observation). I know of two women electrical engineers who have done this fairly recently at my current company. My old boss even gave up her engineering career to teach (she was on track for VP so I am not sure what happened).

My older daughter is working towards an engineering career (she basically has a freshman engineering schedule as a high school junior). I am hoping she can pick up an intern position at my company, and she is working towards that goal. I would expect we will see alot more women in my daughter's position as engineering parents help them in their careers. One woman in particular in our company is the daughter of a high level technical manager, and she has zoomed up in her career (getting a promotion/job change about every 1 1/2 years). Note that such progression is pretty typical for those who managers have decided will be our future leaders. They move them very quickly up. My old company did this as well.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:44 AM

4. It will be interesting to see if this study makes the same mistakes as prior ones by

not comparing salaries in the same fields.

STEM graduates are doing better than those numbers, regards of gender.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:01 AM

5. According to the article, career choice was controlled for, but a 6.6% pay gap remained.

But the overall gap — the 18-percentage-point disparity — could be explained by career choices; men are more likely to enter high-paying fields such as engineering and computer science. The researchers controlled for that, along with other variables, but an “unexplained” 6.6-percentage-point gap remained.


I haven't seen the actual study yet and don't know which other variables were taken into account..

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Response to sl8 (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:08 AM

6. So in other words, different careers pay differently?

News at 11.

Teaching women to negotiate for salary (or men to negotiate for time off) would eliminate that 6.6% differential.

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Response to sl8 (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:23 AM

8. Be interesting to see the lower level data

For example a math major that goes into teaching will not make what a math major who goes into high tech.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:18 AM

7. Here's the link to the study.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/graduating-to-a-pay-gap/95/

It says that a pay gap of 6.6% exists between men and women working the same hours in the same career with the same education. It also says:

Another possible explanation for the unexplained
portion of the pay gap is a gender difference
in willingness and ability to negotiate
salary. Negotiating a salary can make a difference
in earnings, and men are more likely than
women to negotiate their salaries. In part, this
difference may reflect women’s awareness that
employers are likely to view negotiations by men
more favorably than negotiations by women.
Nonetheless, negotiation may account for some
portion of the unexplained gap.


Another possible explanation? What conclusions would the American Association of University Men reach?

One last thing. The study was conducted during the deepest part of the most recent recession, yet no attempt was made to quantify the effect of unemployment, which affects men more. It stands to reason that a woman who works a few hours in a low paying career would have a hard time paying back her student loans. It is even harder for an unemployed man.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:25 AM

9. Uh oh...

Bugle call to the Little Boys group. I'm sure they'll come a runnin.

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