I am unable to find any significant moral difference between people who think a pregnancy . . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

. . . . that results from a rape is the "Will of God" and people who would put a hit contract on a 14 year old girl for speaking of freedom.

I am not condemning people who hold their religion dear. I am condemning those who are so extreme that they want to inflict their beliefs on others in any way possible.

[haikugal]

1. I Agree ++++

[riderinthestorm]

2. Agreed. Despicable. nt

[Tigress DEM]

3. Yea, that isn't my God talking to those folks.

Although a person of faith might find the strength to have a baby even from such awful beginnings and give it up for adoption or raise it and I think that is about God honoring someone's faith more than making bad things happen to people so it builds their faith.

I think bad things happen because with free will people can choose to be rapists, or Republicans.

[Nye Bevan]

4. I disagree. I think someone who sincerely believes that a fetus is a human life,

and that aborting that fetus is sinful and should be illegal, is well-intentioned but wrong (at least in the case of an early abortion).

Shooting a schoolgirl in the head for wanting an education, however, is pure, unmitigated evil.

[liberal_at_heart]

8. the road to hell is paved with good intentions

Just because you believe what you are doing is right does not mean it is any less evil. People who opposed ending slavery and civil rights for black people truly believed that God made black people inferior and white people superior. People truly believed that women were the rightful property of their husbands and that it was legal to rape their wives and beat them if they disobeyed their husbands. People truly believe that gay people should be denied marriage, employment, housing, believe that it is okay to bully them and sometimes commit violence against them because they are breaking God's law. People truly believe they are making the world a better place by trying to outlaw abortion and go back to a time in history where women didn't take birth control. They stayed out of the workforce and stayed home and had babies like God intended. We see even more blatant disregard for women by people making these crazy claims that a woman's body has a way to stop pregnancy in cases of legitimate rape and that if a pregnancy occurs it was what God intended to happen. What's really scary here is that when you look through history when a group of people decide that another group of people are breaking God's law it somehow justifies dehumanizing them. They are some how less than and therefore it is okay to harm them. That is evident in all religions when they are radicalized not just extremist Islam and not just extremist Christianity. Having power and control over another human being is a dangerous thing.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Bravo!!!!!!!

Well said!

[Horse with no Name]

19. +1000 n/t

[lunatica]

25. Thank you!

Really believing something is not a substitute for being right.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

30. So very true. And I find this "God intended it to happen" concept to be severely lacking. It could

be said for anything that happens. I guess we shouldn't cure disease--surely that's going against God's will.

Not that I think I've come up with any brilliant new idea here, but I just had to say it.

[Care Acutely]

12. Inflicting religion on others IS pure, unmitigated evil

And history has the bones of millions stacked high to prove it

[Odin2005]

28. Most evils in the world are caused by people who think they are doing good.

The Taliban nuts think it is a good thing to try and kill that young woman because they think God will punish them if they do not.

The Aztecs sacrificed thousands of POWs every year because they thought the sun would starve and no longer rise if they did not.

[Marrah_G]

33. But they believe the girl was extremely sinful and that what she did was illegal

So it's not really all that different.


It is trying to enforce your beliefs on others by any means possible. History shows us it never ends well.

[Angry Dragon]

5. They are the same, just different names

Taliban and American Taliban

[StrictlyRockers]

6. Reminded me of this...

?9743

[awoke_in_2003]

7. Talibornagains. nt

[hughee99]

9. My grandfather thought all pregnancy was the "will of god"

(he thought pretty much everything was), but he also thought that government had no place restricting a woman's right to choose. Essentially, even if you get pregnant by "god's will", the decision to keep it is still up to you. I can't imagine he'd put out a hit on anyone.

I think the distinction is between what one personally believes, and whether they think their morality should be forced on everyone else.

[BainsBane]

10. One is an opinion and the other is attempted murder

While I find Mourdouck (or however you spell it) repulsive, it is not the same as ordering the hit on a child.

[liberal_at_heart]

11. it is true that a belief by itself is not as evil as the violent act

it is the belief that generally leads to the violent act. People get angry at other people that they see are breaking God's law. That therefore justifies dehumanizing them. It then becomes okay to commit violence against them. My father refuses to believe that Christians commit violent acts against gay people. He thinks that if someone truly believes in God then they couldn't possibly commit a violent act. But it does happen, all the time. Domestic violence against women is a huge problem in this country. We make laws and put people in jail but we have done nothing to change the culture of violence against women. In order to lessen the acts of violence we have to address the way people think about others who are different than they are.

[historylovr]

13. +1. The difference is in degree, not in kind. nt

[RainDog]

14. k&r n/t

[marshall]

16. You see no difference between thought and action?

It shouldn't be our concern what anyone thinks. When those thoughts move a person to action, that is when we can start being concerned.

[RainDog]

17. The reality is that Republicans have created all sorts of legislative action

to, in essence, kill some women by their policies.

http://www.politicususa.com/proof-war-women-2



These restrictions come from the continuous assault on women's reproductive rights led by right wing christo-fascists.

That's the reality.

32 states have enacted legislation since 2010 to prevent women from accessing safe reproductive health services, or to provide barriers to the same.

[marshall]

18. Focus on them, not those who sit quietly at home with their own thoughts

We should not become thought police.

[RainDog]

20. Since a republican just made this statement

this is focusing on them. These are the same republicans who have passed this legislation and want to pass more.

if there are people here who agree with that position - well, they don't get any respect from me either b/c I think it's repulsive.

[marshall]

21. You can lump Eunice Kennedy into that repulsive pot

Though a stalwart progressive, she quietly opposed abortion under any circumstance.

It's an important issue to be sure. But it's not the only issue.

[RainDog]

22. having a personal opinion about abortion

and working to legislate your religious opinion into law are two different things.

I don't care who the person is - anti-choice is a heinous position. We have examples throughout history of various people who were on the wrong side of various issues who were also decent humans on other political issues.

So, I don't care what famous person may have opposed abortion under any circumstances. The only reason for such a belief is a religious one and someone's religion does not take precedence over women's rights to those who don't find any value in particular religious beliefs.

My respect for Eunice Kennedy just dropped.

[marshall]

35. Eunice Kennedy took her opinion about abortion to a very positive place

Instead of trying to block a woman's right to choose, she worked tirelessly to elevate the status of young special needs Americans. In her own mind, she likely felt that she was making it easier for a mother (or father) who was facing the diagnosis of a special needs birth to see the possibility of raising such a child.

Likewise, many who are opposed to abortion for religious reasons choose to promote adoption rather than seek the criminalization of abortion. I look at it the same as adultery, at least from the religious person's viewpoint. They can be personally opposed to adultery, and we can be fine with that opinion. But when they start trying to criminalize it, then we can step in as a society to protect individual rights to their own privacy and their own choices.

[CTyankee]

36. Promoting adoption can be insidious, tho. You hear people say "There are so many women who can't

have children..." and it becomes almost an obligation of a pregnant woman to bear an unwanted child for the woman who can't. I call it a "brood mare" way of thinking about women.

However, there should be help for those who wish to bear a child that is unplanned and the woman should have the choice.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. That difference is accommodated in the OP. Please try for comprehension on this reread.

But you keep on keepin' on.

[lunatica]

26. Thought leads to misogynistic legislation

And what do you think leads to violent action? Thought.

[WinkyDink]

23. "People"? I've so far heard of only the male of the species doing as you've written.

[Odin2005]

27. People who blame things on "God's Will" creep me out.

[Bake]

29. Those who are opposed to abortion under any and all circumstances

shouldn't have one. Ever. Period.

Bake

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

32. True that. And to comfort them, in RW world, congressional Reflublicans will be passing a bill that

outlaws forced abortions *and* bans Sharia law.

[rustydog]

31. Like they say: It isn't the religion, it is the fundamentalist followers of religion

people who claim to deeply love their version of God will kill at the drop of a hat in the defense of that fundamental belief- system.

These (excuse the phrase) Goddamn Christian Family-values Right to Life Republicans who encourage bombings of women's health clinics, who believe in voicing 2nd Amendment remedies, who espouse the life begins at conception and if you break one of their laws, they reserve the right to end that "cherished" human life.

[Canuckistanian]

34. Slight, minor correction

The 14 year-old girl was advocating for EDUCATION, not freedom.

Although ultimately, it leads to the same thing.