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Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:37 AM

Are we being set up for another election theft??

I know others have mentioned this but I have not given it much credibility....until now. These recent poll numbers seem to have turned on a dime. I cannot believe people change that quickly. You cannot be for Obama one day and for Mitt Romney the next. You may be "undecided" but people do not change their support in that manner, in my opinion.

What is the psychological impact of polls? Obama supporters discouraged? Romney supporters encouraged? Or would some fence sitters simple decide that their vote isn't needed if there is a big lead in the polls for one candidate or another? One thing for certain, this is no time to be discouraged. If this is their game, we cannot let them succeed.

I hope we do not have to go thru another election where Republicans and the Supreme Court decide that the people of any state, not just Florida, cannot honestly count their own votes. We cannot tolerate another such election.

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Reply Are we being set up for another election theft?? (Original post)
kentuck Oct 2012 OP
Politicalboi Oct 2012 #1
Blanks Oct 2012 #95
Raster Oct 2012 #2
InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2012 #3
Raster Oct 2012 #9
CaptJasHook Oct 2012 #67
sandyshoes17 Oct 2012 #4
Did I Just Type This Oct 2012 #8
Raster Oct 2012 #10
PCIntern Oct 2012 #41
nc4bo Oct 2012 #45
BetterThanNoSN Oct 2012 #72
leftynyc Oct 2012 #58
Selatius Oct 2012 #5
Did I Just Type This Oct 2012 #6
ZM90 Oct 2012 #7
marions ghost Oct 2012 #14
vi5 Oct 2012 #17
Cha Oct 2012 #26
AsahinaKimi Oct 2012 #11
marions ghost Oct 2012 #23
JSK Oct 2012 #78
marions ghost Oct 2012 #86
B Calm Oct 2012 #12
sandyshoes17 Oct 2012 #16
KaryninMiami Oct 2012 #22
Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2012 #32
CanSocDem Oct 2012 #48
laundry_queen Oct 2012 #94
CrispyQ Oct 2012 #85
Did I Just Type This Oct 2012 #13
marions ghost Oct 2012 #15
JohnnyBoots Oct 2012 #75
hue Oct 2012 #76
Atman Oct 2012 #18
a kennedy Oct 2012 #39
Atman Oct 2012 #84
randome Oct 2012 #19
Dj13Francis Oct 2012 #20
donheld Oct 2012 #21
fasttense Oct 2012 #24
GreenPartyVoter Oct 2012 #25
CrispyQ Oct 2012 #88
GreenPartyVoter Oct 2012 #93
madokie Oct 2012 #27
vi5 Oct 2012 #31
kentuck Oct 2012 #33
vi5 Oct 2012 #36
kentuck Oct 2012 #62
vi5 Oct 2012 #64
CrispyQ Oct 2012 #89
ellennelle Oct 2012 #28
kentuck Oct 2012 #29
sandyshoes17 Oct 2012 #34
a kennedy Oct 2012 #47
hue Oct 2012 #52
juajen Oct 2012 #55
beac Oct 2012 #70
hue Oct 2012 #30
longship Oct 2012 #35
ananda Oct 2012 #37
vi5 Oct 2012 #38
sandyshoes17 Oct 2012 #40
kentuck Oct 2012 #44
INdemo Oct 2012 #63
hue Oct 2012 #53
Dustlawyer Oct 2012 #42
hue Oct 2012 #56
nc4bo Oct 2012 #43
H2O Man Oct 2012 #46
LiberalEsto Oct 2012 #49
TBF Oct 2012 #50
bucolic_frolic Oct 2012 #51
asjr Oct 2012 #54
INdemo Oct 2012 #57
AzDar Oct 2012 #59
INdemo Oct 2012 #66
madmax Oct 2012 #60
hue Oct 2012 #61
The Wizard Oct 2012 #65
TomClash Oct 2012 #68
occupymybrain Oct 2012 #69
Stargazer09 Oct 2012 #71
DefenseLawyer Oct 2012 #73
liberalmuse Oct 2012 #74
great white snark Oct 2012 #87
freedom fighter jh Oct 2012 #77
sandyshoes17 Oct 2012 #100
brooklynite Oct 2012 #79
Tom Rinaldo Oct 2012 #80
porphyrian Oct 2012 #82
Tom Rinaldo Oct 2012 #91
porphyrian Oct 2012 #92
Baitball Blogger Oct 2012 #81
ruffburr Oct 2012 #83
Coyotl Oct 2012 #90
glinda Oct 2012 #96
Matariki Oct 2012 #97
slackmaster Oct 2012 #98
Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #99
Redford Oct 2012 #101
flyguyjake Oct 2012 #102
Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #104
felix_numinous Oct 2012 #103
lonestarnot Oct 2012 #105

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:42 AM

1. It could happen

I think they should have disqualified the whole state of Florida in 2000. And that's what they should do this time if it can't be resolved without the SC horning in. Then the most with electoral votes is the winner no matter if it's still below 270.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:21 PM

95. They should have had a re-vote in 2000

With supervision. The fact that the secretary of state was a member of the bush campaign should have been enough to call in outsiders.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:43 AM

2. Yes. I believe we are. There are going to be issues.

The old, rich, white men want their boys in office, and will do JUST ABOUT ANYTHING to ensure they "win." We should be prepared for ANYTHING.

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Response to Raster (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:48 AM

3. Why they're called rethugs - only way they win is by cheatin. need to lawyer up BEFORE it happens.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:57 AM

9. I have faith in President Obama, the Justice Department and the DNCC.

I will NOT roll over and allow a Rmoney/Lyin' Presidency to be forced on me. I will not. I will do whatever it takes.

We, as a people, rolled over twice before: 2000 and 2004, and look what it brought up. Two illegal and immoral wars that almost bankrupted us, a recession where many of us lost our homes and our livelihoods. And most importantly, we lost our way as a people.

NO! I will not roll over. I will not allow old, rich, white men to steal another election. NO!

NO! I will not allow the American Taliban to dictate women's rights and health issues!

NO! I will not abandon Seniors, the poor and students to be used and discarded!

NO! I will not allow the Military Industrial Complex to kill any more American kids because of greed!

NO! I will not allow the Petroleum Mafia to continue to poison our planet!

NO! I will do everything I can to make sure that human rights is more than just a catch phrase!

NO! I will not allow corporations and their sycophants to control this country! NO MORE!

I will do whatever it takes.

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Response to Raster (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:23 AM

67. Yep. It's 2000 all over again.

This is exactly what they pulled off in 2000. Use the polls to cause reasonable doubt.

There is NO WAY to explain the gains Romney made after the first debate. It is as if the Pollsters were waiting for any excuse to make their move, and then they pounced.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:49 AM

4. I'm getting that old feeling

Last edited Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:11 AM - Edit history (2)

In 2000 and 2004 the exit polls were so called wrong. People are comparing these polls to past stolen elections. I knew 2004 was wrong, before the election bush's approval was in the 30's during he's ahead 2 weeks after the election he's back in the 30's. How does he get elected with 36% approval???
I get the feeling we're getting set up again. Maybe it's me, I am still not over past thefts, once it's done it's done.

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Response to sandyshoes17 (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:56 AM

8. Yeah, i haven't bothered voting since the Supreme Court elected Bush to the Presidency.

 

Bush's inauguration took place in the white house out of fear for his safety, if that doesn't say he didn't belong there...

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Response to Did I Just Type This (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:00 AM

10. You must vote this election. That is exactly what they want you to do. Don't let them...

...win by default. Vote! It is OUR RIGHT, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY. VOTE!

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Response to Did I Just Type This (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:55 AM

41. WTF?! that was the second inauguration IIRC...

so what are you doing here? If you don't vote, at least you say you don't, what the hell do you care what happens?

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Response to Did I Just Type This (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:59 AM

45. Seriously?

We work hard to elect Democrats here. If you haven't voted since Bush and have no intention in voting for Obama in this election, why ARE you here?

Get on board or get out the way.

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #45)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:39 AM

72. A lil harsh

Seeing as they stole the last 2 prez elections, and rather blatantly at that, its hard to fault one for being disenfranchised with our 'precious' vote.

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Response to Did I Just Type This (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:42 AM

58. If you don't vote

you're of absolutely no use to us. This board is for electing Democrats and we simply don't have the time or the inclination to deal with anyone who doesn't even bother voting.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:51 AM

5. The integrity of the election process has been problematic since e-voting began.

Well, to be honest, the country has always had trouble properly counting votes. I am reminded of my own state's history of oppression against an entire race of people.

However, since electronic voting has become mainstay, it seems the problem has become worse than before. At least in the past, trying to steal an election was a lot more paper-intensive vs. stealing an election run on machines, and if there was paper involved, then that meant there was evidence of possible fraud.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:53 AM

6. I am thinking that it is to prepare us for the surpise win

 

Polls in this case are done to judge the public response to Romney being in the hunt, early voting shows Obama winning by 68%...but the NEW polls say Obama is dead even (depending on the poll). I honestly don't see Romney winning more than 38% total. His own party is disheartened by his nomination and most won't be voting. He and Ryan are too extreme for most republicans. Just my opinion.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:54 AM

7. I suspect the Obama campaign is real aware of the GOP's ability to steal elections

and is prepared to fight.

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Response to ZM90 (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:02 AM

14. I hope you're right

I think there could be issues. They will try to steal it I believe.

We all should be thinking how to protest if it goes the way of 2000. I couldn't live with that happening again. Would prove that disrupting elections is an ongoing strategy. Banana Republic.

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Response to ZM90 (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:06 AM

17. No offense, but....

His record on giving the GOP far too much leeway and credibility and credit for being fair and equitable and reasonable says otherwise.

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Response to ZM90 (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:22 AM

26. I agree.. They've been on the Voter Suppression

laws and went to court to fight for everyone to have early Voting in Ohio and reverse the voter id laws in Florida.

They have our back and I have theirs. It's in their best interests and our country's to know what going on with the republicons' plans to steal another election.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:00 AM

11. I think about this everyday..

Who could ever forget the horrors of the year 2000. George Bush handed the Election by the Supreme court, discounting every vote in the United States. Could it happen again? Absolutely. Is Romney rich enough to want this election so badly, he would do anything to get it? Absolutely.

Just thinking about waking up November 7th, with the visions of Romney/Ryan standing there to applause of thousands of Tea baggers, Right wingers, and Fox News commentators makes my stomach want to turn over, thinking about the consequences of those two in the white house.

I frankly think it would be worse than George W. Bush. Not only would Obama~care be wiped out in a day, but they would do everything they could to turn over everything the President had done in the last four years. Pig Rush Limbaugh would be beating his chest like a howler monkey, and Glenn Beck might even make a comeback. We would go down a road that would lead to the worst things ever, in American History.

This election is the most important one ever. We don't need a greedy representative of the corporate elite running this country. Think of the laws the Supreme court could pass.. things like, if you are business owner, only you and your cronies may be able to vote in the future. The rest of us would lose our right to have a say in anything, and with the Police departments equipped like the military, no one would be safe to walk down the streets, without being searched, poked and prodded.

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #11)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:14 AM

23. I think it would be worse

than Booshcheney.

"This election is the most important one ever." --

Yes.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:14 AM

78. I agree that it would be worse

When people tell me, "Oh, we would get through a Romney presidency... we survived Bush, didn't we?"

Well, sort of, except for the fact that we were post-Clinton when Bush came along; we were in a good place. We'd be starting at a drastically different point, post Bush, and the progress we have made in these past four years would be wiped out in a matter of weeks. And it would be a free-fall from there.

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Response to JSK (Reply #78)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:39 AM

86. Did we survive Bush?

That is very lo-info thinking is all I can say...and many of us still have PSTD.

I agree with you. They would carry out their threats.

It is imperative to stop them or we will see everything we care about G.O.N.E.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:00 AM

12. The E voting machines in Ohio are made by Bain.

That worries me!

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Response to B Calm (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:06 AM

16. Just read an article on that

I don't have a link. But Tagg and Ann have connections to the e-voting machines. That should be illegal. Will try to find the article.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:14 AM

22. ALL E machines are manufactured by GOP Companies

Diebold (or whatever their new name is), ES&S and Sequoya who manufacture all of the electronic voting machines are GOP companies. All that's changed is that Romney/Bain are now involved. But voting on machines made by companies with a political agenda is not new- and is not ok. But nothing's been done about it. And by the way, access to the source codes is limited only to their employees.

Maybe this time there are enough folks who know and are paying attention including DOJ- we can only hope.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:39 AM

32. The need for instant results is a disease. Get rid of ALL voting machines. Count paper ballots.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #32)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:18 AM

48. Yes. Simple solution. (eom)

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #32)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:36 PM

94. You can still get very quick results with paper ballots and hand counts

We do it here in Canada and usually get the results within an hour or so of polls closing on the West coast. And the whole 'larger population' excuse is just that - an excuse. If you have more voters, then you have more counters. Simple. And verifiable.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:33 AM

85. DU thread on the topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021573071

This is so wrong on so many levels. They are going to try to steal it. They are. Count on it. It is their MO from here on out. They can't win on ideas & policy so they have to lie, cheat & steal. I suspect there were shenanigans in the '08 election, but the margin was so huge they couldn't overcome it.

Mitt coming off like a bully in the debates has fired-up their lukewarm base a bit. They love bullies & debates are not about facts to them. Plus they have the media in their pockets, spewing 24/7 polls that show the race is neck & neck. Too many low information voters. I know many of them.

To all the assholes on this site who have been chortling that this win is in the bag, fuck you. It's never in the bag when the other side doesn't play by the rules.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:02 AM

13. Obama has

 

95% of the black vote, this isn't a racist figure, Romney's NAACP "you people" quote killed him.
87% of the Latino vote, Arizona had a lot to do with the lack of support from the Latino organizations.
57% of the Women voters, probably higher, I don't believe female republicans will vote Romney/Ryan blindly.
81% of the educated voters, a staggering amount.

Just don't see how Romney is going to compete with those solid/fed up american voters.

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Response to Did I Just Type This (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:05 AM

15. Bomney can't compete but Diebold can...

Good to keep those high figures in mind if we the people get Diebolded...

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Response to Did I Just Type This (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:49 AM

75. That's why they have all these crazy polls saying Romney is ahead or close in all states.

 

And why they are working hard to make exit polling a thing of the past. People won't think too hard if they think the polls were close for the last month.

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Response to Did I Just Type This (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:51 AM

76. Yet the Rethug sheeple will see it since they dont believe in rational/scientific/mathematical logic

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:07 AM

18. Electoral college tie

That's how they'll do it this time. Another SCOTUS selection would be too suspicious and cause too much outrage. An electoral college tie means the GOP House would select the president. A tie in the House means the Senate picks the president, requiring a simple majority of 51 votes.

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Response to Atman (Reply #18)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:52 AM

39. OMGawd NO.....

I just couldn't live through another SCOTUS deciding an election. Just could NOT live through it again.

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Response to a kennedy (Reply #39)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:32 AM

84. That's why they won't go to the SCOTUS again...

They know it will be too obvious and upsetting. Sure, going to Congress will be upsetting, too, but it's legal, it's the law. If the EC ties, the House gets first shot at picking the President, and if they can't agree, it goes to the Senate. Either way, nothing good can come of it. But I highly doubt the SCOTUS would touch this issue again.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:11 AM

19. No. We are not being set up because we are not helpless victims.

The only way the GOP could win in 2000 was to obfuscate and fudge the numbers along the margins. The kind of wholesale fraud that would be necessary to make Romney win will not happen.

When the GOP is in the light, they are much more cautious. Even the voter suppression efforts are going to bite them in the ass.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:13 AM

20. Yes.

We are being set up. Remember Katherine Harris? Remember Ken Blackwell? While the personnel have changed since, the idealogues of the inconcievably corrupt are still in power in both of these states. Voter purges and the media's inevitable narrative about low turnout are smokescreens to distract from the fact that votes are counted by machines whose source code are legally-protected propriatary information of companies owned and operated by the corporate arm of the Republican party, and whose results are guaranteed to declare exactly the winner They desire.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:13 AM

21. Wouldn't surprise me at all

I do NOT believe America is so divided 50/50 like every election seems to indicate. Yes we are a very divided nation, but not an even 50/50. We're being fed that lie and have been fed that lie for several elections now.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:17 AM

24. The only reason the bushes and the Dancing Supremes got away with stealing the elections last time

was because there were no protests following the Supremes announcement of who they selected as President.

If only 10% of the American public had gotten out in the street in protest, we wouldn't have had 2 wars, the destruction of our economy and the elimination of the rule of law.

Be prepared to go out and protest in mass, or we will get another 8 years of destruction of the American way of life.

Nate Silver still has Obama's chances of winning reelection at 70.4%.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:17 AM

25. Well, here's what Greg Palast said on "Democracy Now."

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #25)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:47 AM

88. That was great. Thanks.

Checked out the site for his new book, "Billionaires & Ballot Bandits."

http://ballotbandits.wordpress.com/

An excerpt: http://ballotbandits.wordpress.com/excerpts/



snip...

Here are the facts, ma’am:

In the 2008 election, no less than:

767,023 provisional ballots were cast and not counted;


1,451,116 ballots were “spoiled,” not counted;


488,136 absentee ballots were mailed in, but not counted.

Add it up: in the last presidential election, no less than 2,706,275 ballots were cast—and never counted. I have not included a quarter million (251,936) provisional ballots counted only in part (that is, for some offices).

=====
He also has a 7 ways to fight back poster.

People should listen to this. The story about the wrong voting date print on the Spanish voting information packet . . .

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #88)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:57 AM

93. I started a separate thread for this. It's

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:25 AM

27. Down deep in my gut

I feel this is a lost cause for us. Too many working too hard to defeat Obama to the point that I don't think we can pull this one out. I hate to be so pessimistic but I am.
Hopefully its just a phase I'm going through

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Response to madokie (Reply #27)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:37 AM

31. I'm in the same exact place...

This feels too much like 2000 and 2004 to me. All the optimism is based on looking at things through a cloudy window, with one eye squinting and requires too much being taken on faith.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #31)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:41 AM

33. Is this part of their plan...

to get voters discouraged? I wonder?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #33)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:47 AM

36. I don't see how that would work...

This fear and discouragement is making me more adamant about voting and making sure others do than I might be if Obama was having clear leads and it looked like it was going to be a blow out. The logic of this fear somehow making us less likely to vote just doesn't make much sense at all.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #36)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:45 AM

62. There is such a thing as "discouraged voters"

It's good to hear that you are not one of them.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #62)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:52 AM

64. I'm definitely not one of them...

I think discouraged voters are more going to come into play when a candidate is either way ahead or way behind. When things are this tight, I can't see anyone going "Eh.....I'm not going to bother because I'm discouraged." Especially after 2000. I could be wrong, but I just think that the phenomenon of the discouraged voter doesn't apply in a tight race. I think if anything it energizes voters.

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Response to madokie (Reply #27)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:51 AM

89. Me too.

I have 97% given up on the electoral process. I still volunteer & vote & I think this is one of the most critical elections in our time, but I have no confidence in our electoral process. Electronic voting, big money influence, a compromised media, an apathetic population, a side that doesn't play by the rules & a side that doesn't do anything about it.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:26 AM

28. ties in the polls are needed

in order for a theft on the voting machines to work.

all the voter suppression and id laws and purge lists and registration destruction (not to mention the old US atty firings of 05, but they got caught), all these are designed to keep turnout down. low turnout means low dem votes.

flipping the machines requires a horse race in order for flipped votes on election day at the machines to be "credible."

note two things: one, obama led fairly comfortably going in to election night in 08. two, he was likely "allowed" to win because the republicans did not want the flaming bag of elephant crap they left on the doorstep. better to blame in on the dems (blame it on the dems, blame it on the dems; we will come rejoicing, blame it on the dems)

the "horse race" we supposedly have now, remember, is most often reporting on likely voters; likely voters are those with a track record, often two or three general elections back. that means almost a decade, which means the whole youth vote of twenty somethings is not getting counted in there at all. obama is not carrying them at the level he did in 08, but he does hold a strong majority with them.

another thing to consider is how little cell phones are used for polling; some pollsters use them, but not nearly to the actual proportion they are represented in the population, so the polls over-represent older (read: republican) voters (rasmussen is the worst culprit here).

moreover, something that just came up last week, none of these pollsters use spanish speaking interviews, which should make an enormous difference, both in polling and in the election. this was the reason why we saw obama ahead by 2 in AZ; they used spanish speaking interviews. you won't see that result again there unless they use spanish; think of the other states where this will matter, such as CO (where the hispanic vote kept reid in the senate, over - ugh- sharon angle!), FL, even GA and NC, and yes, TX.

so yeah, this is a huge issue, and needs to be screamed from the rooftops by someone highly credible (i'm lookin' at you, rachel) in the media. and now, before election night. if we wait till the day after, the RWN echo chamber will shrug us off as sour grapes.

this is serious. and they've been working on this whole program since nixon and reagan, so yeah, conspiracy to obstruct democracy? i call it treason.

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Response to ellennelle (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:29 AM

29. Welcome ellenelle!

Great first post!

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Response to ellennelle (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:42 AM

34. Totally agree!

That's it exactly. The last election was the first to not be tampered with, that's why we won solidly. If they didn't cheat and steal they couldn't win.

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Response to ellennelle (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:12 AM

47. This is exactly what I think but could not put into the words you so perfectly did.

Thank you, and I'm scared to death.... I'm sending this, with your permission to Rachel right now.

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Response to ellennelle (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:32 AM

52. It's called "creating a reality" & the 1% has been doing it for a long time in many areas.

The 1% deem themselves the John Galt for the sheeple. From Wiki: "As the plot unfolds, Galt is acknowledged to be a creator, philosopher, and inventor who symbolizes the power and glory of the human mind. He serves as a principled counterpoint to the collectivist social and economic structure depicted in the novel (Atlas Shrugged)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt

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Response to ellennelle (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:40 AM

55. They have to let us win sometimes, else there would be a huge rebellion.

There is a lot of truth to the "they screw up, we fix it so they can get more money and screw up again, we fix, ad nauseaum. They will say if voting is crooked, how did Obama win in the first place? We will be furious, but lackadaisical, as usual. Karl Rove needs to be arrested and the mastermind would be perhaps tired and give up. Seems to be plenty of rope to hang him with, but, we sure could have used Elliot Spitzer, or his ilk. BTW, while there will probably be a lot of stealing going on, some things will not change. For instance, they could have gotten rid of Roe v. Wade before and chose not to. They will be selective. Some things are used just to stir up the crowd so you don't see the man behind the curtain.

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Response to ellennelle (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:32 AM

70. And a Bain-owned company owns the voting machines in Ohio.

How in the WORLD is that not a conflict of interest?

And now we have the PA GOP operative trashing registrations in VA (caught doing it to eight forms, but likely it wasn't his first time) while working for a Rove-affiliated group.

My stomach has been twisted in knots since they first started claiming one good debate make people love a man they had hated.

You are spot on about landlines v. cellphones. I only have a cell and I've been polled ONCE. A 95-year-old friend of mine has been polled mulitiple times, which makes you wonder if they are oversampling the elderly too. (She's sharp as a tack and always says "I told 'em I support Obama 100%!" )

I hadn't thought about no Spanish language polls. Another excellent point.

Close enough to steal has always been their goal.



On a happier note, WELCOME to DU!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:34 AM

30. We have seen this before...polls are "too close to call or tied".

This way it would not be too incredible to believe when the election fraud and hacking of voting machines tips the scales in favor of the Republican/Tea Party candidate. The Rethugs have many/a multitude of ways to give them the winning edge and that's all they need.
I, for one, will never believe the Republican Party wins honestly or can be trusted.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:43 AM

35. Well, DU was full of these posts four years ago.

The They're gonna steal it screeching was then just as loud as it is now.

My question is whether this suppresses voter turnout. I don't think it does, because I think most DUers see it like the many other concern posts. People are worried and DUers are not immune to it.

I have been kind of hard on the They're gonna steal it crowd, but I also understand why they are so concerned.

I only hope that they are putting their concern into action. Barack Obama won handily four years ago because this kind of stuff didn't prevent people from voting anyway. This one seems to be closer.

I only hope that these kind of conspiracy theories do not themselves contribute negatively. My biggest fear is that they do.

Be concerned. But be upbeat and work your tail off.

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Response to longship (Reply #35)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:48 AM

37. Agree.

I think Obama is too far ahead.

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Response to longship (Reply #35)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:50 AM

38. Again. as I said above....

The logic of this fear of it being so close discouraging voters makes no logical sense. If anyone thought it was going to be a blow out for Obama and the polls had him so far ahead, people would be MORE likely to just say "Fuck it" and not vote or not encourage others to do so. I was less likely 4 years ago when he was in the lead to argue with or try to encourage my "THere's no difference between the two candidates" type of friends than I am now when it's close. And I'm much more adamant about my own vote and making sure everyone I know who leans Obama is planning to vote.

I could even see if the polls had Obama WAY down as having that effect. But they don't. The polls are horse race close and if anything that's going to fire people up more since we're scared.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:54 AM

40. They didn't want it 4 yrs ago

You are right, they knew the country was going down. Let the Dems have this one, we'll blame them for everything and get back in. Now the economy is turning around they want back in and take all the credit. Plus they need to get rid of AHCA befor people find out it's good and they won't be able to. I hate to be doom and gloom, but they've did it before and I cannot believe this is a tied election.

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Response to sandyshoes17 (Reply #40)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:58 AM

44. So they think the economy is well enough to put the Repubs back in power?

Seems to be the pattern.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #44)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:50 AM

63. All the Repukes have the same script

and what they are saying is that President Obama has not given us any plans for the economy for the next four years..Yeserday they were driving that point with people like Chuck Todd,Joe Scar,Kay Hutchison and many others..And to that I say WTF are they talking about...And the response by the Democrats is not being reported by these hacks.

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Response to sandyshoes17 (Reply #40)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:37 AM

53. I agree 100% The Rethugs did not want the presidency during the economic crash!!

and they wanted the opportunity to blame it all on Obama!!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:55 AM

42. Yes yes yes yes yes!!!! Google Stephen Spoonamore and check out the Declarations page from

Velvet Revolution. I had trouble giving the link, but this is regarding the testimony he gave as the Plaintiffs expert in the 2004 Ohio case where the Bush/Rove IT guy mysteriously died right before he was to testify, in a mysterious plane crash! If they are willing to spend a billion dollars to get this dick elected, and: 1. Voter purges; 2. Voter ID; 3. Voter intimidation through employers; 4. Racists attacks; 5. Voter registration fraud; and 6. Reduce after hours and weekend voting times and polling locations,
What do you think? Like Samuel L. Jackson has already said, WAKE THEFUCK UP!!!!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #42)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:40 AM

56. don't forget the voting machine ties to Tagg Romney...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:57 AM

43. Yes. Not outside the realm of possibility that there is a conspiracy to steal this election.

Things have gotten too weird with the polls, the depth of the voter intimidation and fraud tactics, the ignoring of court rulings, the destruction of registration forms.......Citizens United together with the complete lack of respect for our election process and democracy by those in the right-wing of of this country.

I don't fucking like it one bit and feel that just "voting early" is not enough.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:01 AM

46. The republican machine

will definitely be engaging in maximum efforts to suppress democratic votes in as many states as possible. These efforts will obviously not be in states such as CA and NY, but in those such as Ohio.

The polls do hint at that. The media coverage tends to assist, although they require a "close" race to generate the "excitement" and interest required to get people to watch hour after hour of pre-election coverage.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:19 AM

49. Do bears poop in the woods?

OF COURSE they will do whatever they can to steal the election.
They're already busily at it: throwing out Democratic voter registration forms, passing voter ID laws, and every other trick they can think of, with millions of dollars from the Kochroaches backing their tactics.

Stealing elections is to Republicans like eating flesh is to piranhas -- natural, instinctive and remorseless.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:21 AM

50. We're dealing with fascists so who knows -

Honestly I don't think they really care that much (they meaning the wealthiest folks who are driving this ...). They give us a choice of 2 status quo candidates and say "ok - go at it - pick the one who is "conservative" (social issues) or "progressive". The economics aren't changing as far as I've seen - gap between rich and poor just grows wider.

For me it's worth the drive to the polls (in Texas we start early voting next Tues) to vote for the progressive social issues. As a woman I hate to see so many poor women without health care/birth control etc ...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:30 AM

51. e-voting will be the fraud

I continue to believe, based on intuition, that Virginia is where
this election will be decided.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:40 AM

54. I have had that feeling for a long time. I, too, do

not believe in overnight drastic changes in poll numbers. Also, certain members of the media must be receiving a healthy bonus for pushing Romney.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:42 AM

57. Could it be Ohio again?

Rasmussen has Ohio at near dead even.I know I know he leans strongly toward Repukes but all they need is some confirmation that the race was even when the theft occurs..The fact that the Sec of State will not abide by the court oder and he sets the early voting times during working hours..Nevermind that he is contempt but that will be dealt with after the election.
I see the same pattern here as 2004 as far as polling strategies..And even worse for 2012 is that money talks and buys plenty of crooked election commissioners and computer techs that could rig the machines. With the millions they have to spread around they could set some techs up financially for a very long time.
I think I might have mentioned last week when there was a spread of 8 points or so in Obama's favor in Ohio and all the other polls tightened,that if Ohio polling gap closed to near even then it might be obvious that the fix is in.
One thing we have is the Obama team has plenty of attorney's standing by but the Kerry campaign had them in key states too in 2004.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:42 AM

59. Ohio...which gave the Bush Administration another term in 2004, was STOLEN.

Again, we are being told that *everything* hinges on Ohio during this election, and the machines being used are just as vulnerable as they were in 2004. Nope...nothing wrong here.

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Response to AzDar (Reply #59)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:01 AM

66. Yep ..and its not by mistake that the Rpuke talking heads are now reporting how Ohio race has

tightened and everything is hinging on Ohio..when just before the first debate the Rmoney campaign was considering pull some resources there because of the spread..(obviously that was just talk..and something to try and throw Democrats off)

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:45 AM

60. An emphatic YES.

And imho, it will be Ohio. I know, duh.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:45 AM

61. Reposted here: CORRUPTION: Bain-Controlled Company Owns 2012 Voting Machines

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:56 AM

65. Democrats need a 5 point

lead in the polls on election day to get past the point of a rigged election being within the margin of error. Karl Rove controls the vote tabulators where ever proprietary code electronic voting happens.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:29 AM

68. Many of us have been saying this for some time

We need you in the fight if this comes to pass.

I know these types of people. They will do anything to win. And when I say anything I mean ANYTHING.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:30 AM

69. I just voted for Obama

and the legalization of Marijuana. I got a question how do you all usually vote for judges? I did research and looked for judgments they have made. went form there.
Don't let them have this one, fight, vote, do what you can. We have to be ready for their unfair politics. I dint volunteer for a year and a half to have this stolen from us. I wont give up after the election no matter what happens, I will fight for this country. I have stopped listening to polls I don't watch the news, I do read it however. Keep up the fight if we are strong then they can't steel it from us.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:34 AM

71. Maybe

I have to say, though, that there are a lot of republicans who can't stand Romney. I can only hope that they will help ensure that he can't steal the election.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:43 AM

73. Can happen, has happened, no reason to think it won't happen again. n/t

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:47 AM

74. VOTE.

And encourage others around us to do so as well. No matter how shitty the polls appear right up to the eve of the election, VOTE. They could be right, or the LV models could be flawed, but if we just give up, then that would be the worst thing we could do.

This will sound hokey, but a positive attitude can't hurt. I'm not talking false confidence. I'm trying hard to not fall into angst because it's really easy every time you see a poll dip, but I really do believe that positive thinking en masse on our side will give us that extra boost of enthusiasm. Let's have faith that a good man can still win an election in this country.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #74)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:39 AM

87. "This will sound hokey"

Actually it sounds intelligent and crucial liberalmuse. Enough votes can overcome any misdeeds.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:06 AM

77. One effect of polls is to make the final result credible.

Say one party, call them Party A, wants to steal the election. If their candidate is way behind in the polls and suddenly wins the election, then everyone knows something is up. On the other hand if everyone has been hearing for months that the election looks close, or that the Party A candidate is ahead, then folks won't likely question that candidate's win.

So if someone wants to steal an election, they'll lay the groundwork with poll numbers that make their candidate's win seem plausible.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #77)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:18 PM

100. I agree

They set up that it's plausible, then afterwards come up with the excuses. Like the young people didn't get to the polls for Kerry. They were saying that 2 min after the election was called. Afterwards it's too late.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:16 AM

79. Unrec

Bad enough to buy into one conspiracy theory. Combining two (three if you're assuming the media reporting on the polling is also in on the game) is ridiculously unstable

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:17 AM

80. It doesn't do any do any good to just worry about this

We need to counter the threat. I'm worried about it too, and I think the reasons to worry are valid. So I wrote a GD thread with a specific proposal for how we can ACT to protect against election theft. Maybe it's a good idea, maybe not. It's gotten some Recs but very few views and even less discussion. (Here it is: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021580123 )

We need concrete plans to fight against potential election theft. What are the best ideas out there for doing so? Worrying is not good enough.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #80)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:29 AM

82. First, we need everyone to vote.

 

It's too late to register people to vote in this election at this point, I believe, though some states may have different laws. So, focus on voting, getting everyone else to vote. The numbers are in our favor. What we need to do is get enough of a winning margin that they cannot hide any vote-counting shennanigans statistically. The math is in our friend. Vote, vote, vote.

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Response to porphyrian (Reply #82)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:58 AM

91. I have no argument with you on that There are only reason TO vote, none for not voting. n/t

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #91)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:13 AM

92. If we get this done, we render much, if not all, of the vote-stealing stuff impotent.

 

We will have republicans in court for some time over their criminal activity this year and next, I'm thinking.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:25 AM

81. They're pulling all the stops.

No doubt about it.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:30 AM

83. If they steal this election

I'm afraid they will have serious regrets, If you look at greece ,spain etc. you get a small idea of the chaos that might very well be our lot here in the states, 47% plus will be kicked to the curb by the repukes and i doubt they/we are just gonna go silently into the night, It is not a pretty picture that I see unfolding before us, One more reason to do everything we can to stop these sick fuckers and put an end to the good ol' boy bullshit in politics

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:53 AM

90. You fail to understand polling

They are different polls asking different people

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:39 PM

96. Happening right before our eyes.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:55 PM

97. Between this and the Tagg Romney owning stock in voting machines

and Florida Election Officials documenting vote flipping machines YES I am very very worried we're being set up.

I'm worried the polls are being doctored to match the planned doctoring of the election. Paranoid I know, but that paranoia isn't exactly unwarranted...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:58 PM

98. EXPERTS ARE MONITORING TEH SITUATION

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:01 PM

99. The Big Red Thumb has been on the scale for a dozen years and nobody that matters

 

will even talk about it. The Democratic wins in 2006 & 2008 were by much wider margins, but the Dems got the wins and so they just sat back and pretended. Now we've been "looking forward" for four years and complaining about the outcome, should it go the wrong way, will be too late and look like sour grapes.

This is why you cannot allow criminality to go unanswered.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:43 PM

101. Rumor has it Gloria Allred has the Oct Surprise

Maybe it's another wife or two or three

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:46 PM

102. The first thing Dems have to do when they gain back the senate

 

is pass laws prohibiting the Repukes from any and all voter fraud moving forward!

We need universal voter laws and we need universal voting machines!

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Response to flyguyjake (Reply #102)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:54 AM

104. I got your universal voting machine right here.

 


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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:54 PM

103. And what will we all do if another election is stolen?

Last edited Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:29 PM - Edit history (1)

I would love to hear from everyone that they vow not to sit down and take another stolen election--IF--it happens. In 2000 we were all in shock, let's hope this time that there are too many people awake and prepared not to allow this to happen again.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of voters whose registrations have ALREADY been thrown out, or been swindled or blacklisted, and I think we need to assure that EVERYONE's vote is counted this time, no matter how long it takes. Because we have to teach these bastards a lesson:


NOT THIS TIME YOU CROOKS, AMERICANS ARE STANDING UP THIS TIME.



The election should be a landslide for Obama, but even then we should insist upon every voter who had their registration thrown out to be counted. Make them wait for it

Oh and last time the election was stolen in 2000, there was a media blitz that totally covered up what had happened. We have to watch out for the M$M, because they are complicit in supporting the crooked RW, with few exceptions.

Just my thoughts ~Peace Felix

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:55 AM

105. I have already made a personal choice not to tolerate another theft.

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