who is more sociopathic

[edhopper]

Bush or Romney?

I still give it to Bush.

I think Romney is more of a narcissistic pathological liar.

[quinnox]

1. Bush easily

Bush is something else. He accomplished nearly the ruin of the United States of America, which took hundreds of years to build up, and almost destroyed it in 8 years.

[edhopper]

4. Though if Romney gets in

he might do it in 4.

[Initech]

20. Maybe two if the teabaggers still control Congress.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. You're right.

Willard lacks the conman glibness that is characteristic of classic psychopaths, for one thing.

[Bake]

9. Mittens strikes me as the character from "American Psycho"

He'd just as soon chop you up with an axe as look at you -- if you're one of the 47%.

Bake

[marions ghost]

22. Disagree

There is only a difference in style between Dubya and Mit R Money.

Both narcissist borderline sociopaths IMO. Both equally dangerous.

Especially if you morph little boots Dubya into his alter ego Evil Bushcheney.

[laundry_queen]

26. Agreed

Although it's important to note that there are different classifications of sociopaths/psychopaths. I don't feel like digging up my books (in the middle of a move) but there are some psychopaths (some books mix psychopath with sociopath) who are dumb and violent (the repeat offender type), there are some who are a bit smarter and perpetuate white collar fraud and sometimes get caught, there are some whose purpose in life is to mooch off of people and work as little as possible by manipulating those close to them, and then there are the smart/scary/violent ones who cause mayhem before getting caught (if they do) and the smart/scary/manipulate-people-through-legal-means-mostly types.

I think if GWB would have been born in a middle-class or poor family he would've been of the moocher type. I think Mitt is the last one with an overdose of narcissism. GWB doesn't give a shit what people think, even when he was campaigning. Worrying about image is all Mitt thinks about, imo. And GWB was probably the biggest slacker in the WH ever. And yes, they are both equally dangerous. In the book I'm talking about (by psychopath expert Robert Hare) he mentions that whatever 'type' of psychopath a person is, they are all equally capable of great destruction and violence if pushed to that point (which is usually much, much lower than with normal people who only get that way if their lives are threatened, or children or some great duress happens.) There is no 'benign' psychopath type.

[edhopper]

27. I started this thread with tongue in cheek,

but that is a great post.
Thanks.

[marions ghost]

31. Thanks for that book reference

I will read more--here's Robert Hare's website for any DUers who might be interested:

http://www.hare.org/

Right, there are different types of sociopaths. People NEED to know this. I think the smart -- manipulate through legal means --ones who gain significant power are the scariest, because their values permeate society, and give license to others.

Obviously you are on the same wave.

[laundry_queen]

33. Thanks for putting up the website.

I agree people need to know this - too many people think calling someone a psychopath means you are insinuating they are a sick, serial killer. Not necessarily.

Unfortunately I know a bit too much about this stuff because I married and divorced one. My therapist suggested he might have a PD - narcissism or AsPD and sure enough, he checks every single behavior off of the DSM-IV for AsPD. I like to research so spent a lot of time reading about sociopathy/psychopathy. And, in a strange twist, I'm in business school and it's well known enough that the corporate culture is friendly to psychopaths that in school we did some studying about psychopaths in the workplace and read a Robert Hare article regarding them. BTW, Mitt is exactly like my ex, and exactly like the psychopaths in the workplace that we studied.

[marions ghost]

35. "corporate culture is friendly to psychopaths" -- absolutely!

I too, know about this from personal experience--thankfully not a spouse, but from a couple of others who invaded my life and wreaked havoc. Classic cases. I got a long period of PTSD out of being involved with them. It leaves scars. Yeah, I feel I know Mitt too.

Once you recognize this disorder, you know it when you see it. These are the polite and smiling predators & exploiters among us. People need to know, as u say--that we are not talking about serial killers here--we are talking about white collar criminals who pass as completely normal and functional in society. Our society even rewards them for their successful predatory behavior. People don't want to believe they are so vulnerable to exploitation, that this nastiness is so prevalent.

Must be very validating to you that you found a business school that actually confronts the issue. Business schools have a lot of responsibility to bring awareness to it IMO.

So like you, every red flag of mine goes up about Bomney & Co--especially after our torturous ride with the ruthless Booshcheney. Once sensitized, you know this disorder, this pathology. And referring to Hitler and his minions is not so far-fetched. How many people did Booshcheney kill? I think we all know it was MANY, both inside and outside the US--either as a result of misguided external wars for profit, or exploitation and negligence within.

I know what you went through.

[sadbear]

3. Bush was unintelligent, incompetent, unsuspecting puppet.

Mitt gets my vote.

[edhopper]

6. I picked bush because

he had a sadistic side that seemed to enjoy the paint and death he caused.
Romney seems to be indifferent.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

16. And that is really pathological...

[edhopper]

18. True

I didn't say which is the sociopath, I asked who is more

[Drale]

5. Its Mittens

Bush was a puppet, he did what he was told and got his treat. Mittens is going to do what ever the hell he wants and to hell with what anyone thinks.

[Flashmann]

7. Wow.....Hard choice....

That's like asking which of two turds is the shittiest....

[amborin]

8. Romney; as much as I detest Bush, I do not think he is a sociopath;

eta: Bush does not seem to have the cold, calculating, ruthlessness that romney has. As much as Bush wreaked evil and destruction on the United States, Iraq, etc. he seemed more like an idiot who was taking orders, not really in control. But maybe I'm wrong.

[jsr]

10. Bush was a stupid lazy puppet. Romney is actively evil.

[Texas Lawyer]

11. Bush was mainly dumb and just lazy enough to delegate to Chaney, who was the real sociopath.

I agree: Romney is a narcissistic pathologically lying misogynist, but there is something amoral about his boundless ambition, and something borderline misanthropic about his attitude toward non-Mormons (Romney touts his "charitable" and "unselfish" acts and contributions, but EVERY example he cites is LIMITED to kindness he has shared ONLY with fellow Mormons; if you take that Mormonhilia out of the picture, Romney has led a life that shows a remarkable lack of regard for others).

[lumpy]

12. Tossup

n

[Johonny]

13. I'm hoping not to find out

I think Romney and his CEO mentality and total disinterest in average Americans could be every bit as bad as Bush.

[darkangel218]

14. Romney by far!

Bush was stupid, but Romney is evil incarnated.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

15. Sociopathic? Bush? Nah

Medicare Part D is not a sign of sociopathy. Neither is drastically increased funding for Aids prevention in Africa.

[edhopper]

17. Don't kid yourself

both were massive give aways to the Big Drug Co.s.
Then there is his record on the death penalty
and the little matter of the Iraqi War.
And did someone say torture?

[Agnosticsherbet]

19. Romney...because his career shows that he has no values other than personal power.

Last edited Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:55 PM - Edit history (1)

He has, at one time or another, been on every side of an issue. When it seemed convenient, he supported a woman's right to choose. Not anymore. He said let the big automakers go bankrupt. Now, he claims Obama followed his policies.

I found these markers for a sociopath. How many fit.

There are ten general
symptoms:

not learning from experience
no sense of responsibility
inability to form meaningful relationships
inability to control impulses
lack of moral sense
chronically antisocial behavior
no change in behavior after punishment
emotional immaturity
lack of guilt
self-centeredness

[backscatter712]

21. Bush is certainly psychopathic, but rMoney beats him.

Both of them are dirty rotten bastards, no question about it, and the nation and world endured eight years of hell due to Bush.

But Romney I think actually beats Bush in terms of remorselessness, ruthlessness, lack of empathy, and predatory behavior. Ryan is also quite competitive in the Psychopath Olympics. Psychopaths of a feather...

I'll say it again. Romney needs to be kept out of the Oval Office by any means necessary. The nation may not survive a Romney presidency.

[marions ghost]

23. good point

Ryan....of course he's on the continuum.

Ever noticed how this deviant personality type attracts like? They're more comfortable in nests.

[backscatter712]

24. Just look at the Bush Administration:

Cheney, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, Bolton, Yoo, etc. etc. etc.

[marions ghost]

30. Pathological Narcissist Cluster

Predators, exploiters without conscience.

They recognize and support each other. We have seen it before in history. Now that we recognize the phenom, we need to understand and work to prevent it...

[Siwsan]

25. I think they are a couple of guys with serious daddy issues

I get the feeling they don't want the job as much as they want to outshine their fathers.

[JitterbugPerfume]

28. they are both bat shit crazy

that's a technical term

[HuckleB]

29. Romney, easily.

No one gets along with the guy. His reputation as an arse and elitist with all goes way back to college.

Bush is a schmuck, but he's in a much lower league than Romney.

[Sivafae]

32. I know this an "or" question, but I have to say Paul Ryan

There is something angry and disturbed about that man, and I haven't quite put my finger on exactly what yet. It's like he is mad about something that happened to him and wants millions of people to pay for it.

And with the music he listens to and what he does with his political position, it obvious he just doesn't get it.

But if I had to answer the "or" question, I would say that Mitt is the smarter form of the sociopath and Bush is the dumber form.

[Honeycombe8]

34. I don't think Bush was a sociopath at all. I think he wasn't very bright and wasn't engaged

in the duties of hte Presidency. He was a suit, like Reagan, put into office to sign off on the neocons' plans. And he did, without much thought. Until it was too late. He also could connect at least somewhat with normal people, despite being born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He lived in Midland for a while, where he hobnobbed with the local hispanices and other poor people of the area...to a certain extent. He got a decent % of the hispanic vote, for a Republican.

Bush mainly wanted to enjoy playing President, letting Cheney handle things, playing golf, cutting brush on his ranch, maintaining his health, flying on Airforce One. He gladly signed the tax cut bill, Medicare Part D bill, etc. He went along with the Iraq War, getting Hussein being very appealing to him. Then I think his second term he started realizing how he had been played like a fool. But it was too late.

Romney, OTOH, really does not seem to empathize or sympathize or even understand normal people. He's never associated with them, to my knowledge, or lived a normal life in any way. He doesn't think twice about firing people and ruining lives. Having to do that is one thing. Not giving it a second thought or trying to avoid it is another. But he's not a sociopath, either. He DOES care about SOME people. People like himself.

I prefer to leave that term to maniacs who kill people.

[edhopper]

36. Your overlooking

the indifferent execution of all those people in Texas, including mocking a few of them, and the hundreds of thousand who died at his uncaring hands.
And the glee he showed at torture.

[Honeycombe8]

37. The executions - that's the law. He'd never been to war and didn't think the IW would result

in all those deaths. Like I said, he's not very bright and wasn't engaged in his duties. Torture...I think he let Cheney handle most things during that time.

He's an aging party guy, who'd drink with anyone, rich or poor. He didn't believe in social programs, etc., like most Republicans. But he had brushed shoulders with a number of normal people, willingly, in his life. I believe he saw them as people (if they were white or latino).

[Politicub]

38. Thought you were going to ask about Romney or his son Tagg

They both seem like violent sociopaths. Like father, like son.

[Motown_Johnny]

39. W. had 2 terms as Governor and won reelection with 69% of the vote.

Rmoney had an approval rating in the 30s and didn't even try to get reelected.


I have to go with the one who had the much worse record in government but still decided to try and be President.


Plus Shrub did make it to the White House (thanks in part to the SCOTUS) while Mittens is most likely not going to ever get there.