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hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:24 PM Oct 2012

So Arlen "magic bullet" Specter has passed

Last edited Sun Oct 14, 2012, 11:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Personally I think it would have been interesting to hear his account of how the theory was arrived at. I would love to have his insight as to the physics of the bullet in question were explained to him and how it could do so much damage to tissue and bone without the deformation one would expect.

I had hopes that these guys would reveal the insider's view of the story as they passed on. It would be an important artifact we will never have as anther participant in the Warren Commission has passed.

Maybe my kids will learn what remains hidden in the Church Committee report when it is finally released in 2039, I doubt I will live that long, even though I don't remember the assassination.

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So Arlen "magic bullet" Specter has passed (Original Post) hootinholler Oct 2012 OP
The real story is Oswald acted alone. Surly there are UFOs or Alien Abductions you can work on!! Logical Oct 2012 #1
But it's hard to accept that such an insignificant person should have such a significant effect. HereSince1628 Oct 2012 #2
I agree. It scares people one person can do that. And it is a boring story compared to a plot! Logical Oct 2012 #9
I have to agree that's a real story n/t hootinholler Oct 2012 #4
Your snide comment show a limited grasp of the facts, and a contempt for independent thought. leveymg Oct 2012 #5
I have no tolerance for speculation and conspiracy theory's. Only Facts! Backed up with evidence! Logical Oct 2012 #8
No matter, your comment was snide. You should apologize. leveymg Oct 2012 #11
It won't happen. H2O Man Oct 2012 #15
Thanks Mark! hootinholler Oct 2012 #16
Why should I apologize.... Logical Oct 2012 #18
A rigorous application of logic hootinholler Oct 2012 #19
Physics And Logic Aren't Proof, In And Of Themselves. Paladin Oct 2012 #33
There was a second gunman. KansDem Oct 2012 #12
It must be hell . . . TomClash Oct 2012 #14
Love Sherlock Holmes, but I'm withholding judgment on string theory. Bake Oct 2012 #29
spelling and facts Pat Speer Oct 2012 #35
"limited grasp of the facts"? Hah Spider Jerusalem Oct 2012 #20
something you should know Pat Speer Oct 2012 #25
That is how I understand it Kolesar Oct 2012 #30
Are you denying Arlen was on the Warren Commission or created the "Single Bullet theory" graham4anything Oct 2012 #6
ROFLAMO - GoneOffShore Oct 2012 #13
Stop calling me Shirley! hootinholler Oct 2012 #17
Oh, btw, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations disagrees with your assertion. hootinholler Oct 2012 #23
You may believe what you like. I find it amazing the outright vehement reaction to anyone.... Raster Oct 2012 #27
Huh? RobertEarl Oct 2012 #3
Have to wait around until 2039. MrSlayer Oct 2012 #7
I was just over 6 months old. It's sort of hard for me to remember it too. My flag is out... HopeHoops Oct 2012 #10
Unlocked so the post can be edited to conform to GD SoP REP Oct 2012 #21
Kicking after the edit. hootinholler Oct 2012 #22
Proof Specter Lied About the Magic Bullet Pat Speer Oct 2012 #24
graceless. clueless. and devoid of any humanity. cali Oct 2012 #26
+1 nt NutmegYankee Oct 2012 #31
What cali said BeyondGeography Oct 2012 #28
I invite you to speculate creatively on this in the appropriate forum - Creative Speculation. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2012 #32
I have reason to believe the KKK had their hand in JFK's murder... Comrade_McKenzie Oct 2012 #34

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
2. But it's hard to accept that such an insignificant person should have such a significant effect.
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:32 PM
Oct 2012

So, there will be stories...

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
5. Your snide comment show a limited grasp of the facts, and a contempt for independent thought.
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:34 PM
Oct 2012

Graceless and inappropriate on a board for progressives. You aren't logical, just a limited and intolerant presence.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
8. I have no tolerance for speculation and conspiracy theory's. Only Facts! Backed up with evidence!
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:36 PM
Oct 2012

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
11. No matter, your comment was snide. You should apologize.
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:41 PM
Oct 2012

And, the Warren Commission Report leaves out so many facts and evidence, it's probably the last place one should look for conclusions.

H2O Man

(73,321 posts)
15. It won't happen.
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 04:14 PM
Oct 2012

Intolerance, as Gandhi noted, reveals a want of faith in one's cause. Thus, the snide comment was necessary to justify the rigid belief.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
16. Thanks Mark!
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 04:15 PM
Oct 2012

Personally, I find it funny that someone claims the Oswald story is fact based. He was a hell of a marksman with a cheap ass rifle getting those shots off in Guinness-record setting time.

How apropos that is the first reply.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
18. Why should I apologize....
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 04:19 PM
Oct 2012

The OP made it sound like it was 100% fact that the single gunman theory was incorrect. They said "Maybe my kids will learn the truth someday" like the truth isn't Oswald acted alone.

That was as much of a snide comment as mine is.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
19. A rigorous application of logic
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 04:31 PM
Oct 2012

Coupled with knowledge of physics raises enough doubt about the magic bullet by itself. No need to denigrate me as a UFO chaser or other tin hatter.

But it's ok, I think you've demonstrated where your head is at and I'm not really offended by your assertions about my character.

Paladin

(28,202 posts)
33. Physics And Logic Aren't Proof, In And Of Themselves.
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:26 PM
Oct 2012

I went along with all the assassination conspiracies for the first 30 years or so after 11/22/63, then I realized there wasn't any "there" there, nothing anywhere close to a convincing refutation of Oswald acting alone with that crappy old Italian rifle. If not having a definitive notion of who killed JFK is the worst disappointment I have when I die, I'll figure I've done pretty well.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
12. There was a second gunman.
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:44 PM
Oct 2012
Study Backs Theory of 'Grassy Knoll'
New Report Says Second Gunman Fired at Kennedy

By George Lardner Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, March 26, 2001; Page A03

The House Assassinations Committee may have been right after all: There was a shot from the grassy knoll.

That was the key finding of the congressional investigation that concluded 22 years ago that President John F. Kennedy's murder in Dallas in 1963 was "probably . . . the result of a conspiracy." A shot from the grassy knoll meant that two gunmen must have fired at the president within a split-second sequence. Lee Harvey Oswald, accused of firing three shots at Kennedy from a perch at the Texas School Book Depository, could not have been in two places at once.

A special panel of the National Academy of Sciences subsequently disputed the evidence of a fourth shot, contained on a police dictabelt of the sounds in Dealey Plaza that day. The panel insisted it was simply random noise, perhaps static, recorded about a minute after the shooting while Kennedy's motorcade was en route to Parkland Hospital.

A new, peer-reviewed article in Science and Justice, a quarterly publication of Britain's Forensic Science Society, says the NAS panel's study was seriously flawed. It says the panel failed to take into account the words of a Dallas patrolman that show the gunshot-like noises occurred "at the exact instant that John F. Kennedy was assassinated."

--more--
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/JFK/bbcgrassy.htm


Bake

(21,977 posts)
29. Love Sherlock Holmes, but I'm withholding judgment on string theory.
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 03:59 PM
Oct 2012

If you have to invent multiple dimensions and multiple universes to make the math work, there MIGHT be a problem with string theory.

Bake

Pat Speer

(38 posts)
35. spelling and facts
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:58 PM
Oct 2012

It appears as though your grasp of the facts is about as strong as your grasp of spelling. The plural of "conspiracy theory" is "conspiracy theories" not "conspiracy theory's." That's nitpicking, I know. But your spelling error is reflective of the fact you haven' done your homework, and should be more tolerant of those that have.

Here is a chapter in which I discuss the FBI and Secret Service re-enactments of the JFK shooting. These were performed in December 1963, at a time when no one had any reason to believe the Warren Commission would double-check their work. These re-enactments prove that the FBI and Secret Service were either lying or grossly incompetent. Now, you can take your pick. But you can't pretend that there is no reason to question the "official" story Oswald acted alone, this story being told by such obvious liars or incompetents.

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter2b%3Athesecretservicesecrets



 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
20. "limited grasp of the facts"? Hah
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 04:39 PM
Oct 2012

facts: forensic analysis of recovered bullet fragments links them conclusively to Oswald's rifle, the trajectory from the sixth-floor window matches that of a bullet that probably did in fact wound both Kennedy and Connally (nothing magic about it; Connally was seated below and inboard of Kennedy on a jump seat, not directly in front of and on the same level as, as shown in the misleading Oliver Stone film "JFK&quot ; eyewitnesses place Oswald at the scene, and in nearly fifty years no compelling alternative explanation supported by a single shred of forensic evidence has appeared. Conclusion: Oswald did it, and he acted alone.

There's a difference between "independent thought" and conspiracy theorism that rejects the established facts as inconvenient.

Pat Speer

(38 posts)
25. something you should know
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 03:01 PM
Oct 2012

The single-bullet trajectory does not align as well as you think it does.

The Secret Service told the Warren Commission the jump seat was 6 inches inboard from the door when the specs for the limo eventually released proved it was but 2 1/2 inches inboard of the door.

This didn't stop Dale Myers and Vincent Bugliosi from continuing to pretend it was 6 inches inboard from the door, of course.

 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
6. Are you denying Arlen was on the Warren Commission or created the "Single Bullet theory"
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:36 PM
Oct 2012

It's funny that the Single Bullet theory aka The Magic Bullet was created with the word theory in it, by Specter and that the conspiracy theorists were in fact the ones that created that fantasy.

and on a personal note-
Rest in peace to my favorite poster and board friend, Mr Jim on another site, who died of cancer in his 40s, about two years ago, leaving behind a wife and kids.
Who did not believe in conspiracy theories whatsoever. But did however believe in conspiracies.
He would not even have been 50 years old yet. Rest in peace MrJim

It reminds me of the words of President George Herbert Walker Bush at the funeral of
Gerald (fellow member of the Warren commission) Ford (the only vice president and the first president who was never elected just selected)

Arlen by the way also led the impeachment in the senate hearings to oust Clinton after the house impeached him

and Arlen went against OUR TEDDY Kennedy in the hearings of Clarence Thomas before he was elevated to the Supreme Court.

a shout out of love to Anita Hill btw.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
23. Oh, btw, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations disagrees with your assertion.
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 11:52 PM
Oct 2012
From the US Archives:

C. The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy


Raster

(20,996 posts)
27. You may believe what you like. I find it amazing the outright vehement reaction to anyone....
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 03:24 PM
Oct 2012

...wishing to explore the truth. Even saying or writing the word "truth" opens the door to ridicule. As if truth were something to deride, something to fear.

The only people who fear the truth, fear that their beliefs will be shown to not be the truth.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
3. Huh?
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:33 PM
Oct 2012

I heard that Arlen was wanting all those secret records of the JFK era to be released. Guess someone was lying, eh?

That's what is the most telling. That there are secrets that we are not being told. Anyone condoning that bullshit can go fuck themselves.

And as for Arlen, himself? I was sad to see him leave... so late in life. He should have quit a few decades ago. He was part of the problem we have had to live with: the republican nightmare.

 

HopeHoops

(47,675 posts)
10. I was just over 6 months old. It's sort of hard for me to remember it too. My flag is out...
Sun Oct 14, 2012, 03:41 PM
Oct 2012

... and at half mast. He served PA well.

Pat Speer

(38 posts)
24. Proof Specter Lied About the Magic Bullet
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 02:53 PM
Oct 2012

The middle part of the discussion at the link below is a thorough dissection of whether or not Arlen Specter lied when pushing his single-bullet theory.

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter10%3Aexaminingtheexaminations

The evidence is clear that he did. We can only hope he told someone--perhaps his son Shanin--why.

 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
34. I have reason to believe the KKK had their hand in JFK's murder...
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:27 PM
Oct 2012

My ex-fiancee's great-grandfather was the grand dragon of the KKK somewhere in Ohio during this time.

He supposedly took his radio to work the morning of the shooting. He never did that.

When his wife asked him about it, he replied: "The President is going to get shot today."

That's what I was told by my ex's family. Take from it what you will.

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