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Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:13 AM

Did Thomas Jefferson really say this?

"Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 'democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.'"

An excerpt from a letter sent by David Siegel to his employees.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/david-siegel-email_n_1951801.html

From this article:

"David Siegel, the founder and CEO of giant timeshare company Westgate resorts, sent an opus-like email to his workers, railing against one-percent bashing and arguing that the president’s reelection would “threaten your job.” In the email, obtained by Gawker, Siegel goes on to write:

"'If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company.'"

19 replies, 2105 views

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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply Did Thomas Jefferson really say this? (Original post)
Bertha Venation Oct 2012 OP
sinkingfeeling Oct 2012 #1
Bertha Venation Oct 2012 #12
aletier_v Oct 2012 #2
Enrique Oct 2012 #6
ToxMarz Oct 2012 #9
kestrel91316 Oct 2012 #3
cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #4
JHB Oct 2012 #7
deutsey Oct 2012 #8
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #5
dawg Oct 2012 #10
nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #11
wtmusic Oct 2012 #13
barbtries Oct 2012 #14
ieoeja Oct 2012 #15
JaneyVee Oct 2012 #16
OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #17
NoGOPZone Oct 2012 #18
hootinholler Oct 2012 #19

Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:15 AM

1. No, see below.

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/democracy-will-cease-to-exist-quotation

Status: This exact quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It bears a very vague resemblance to Jefferson's comment in a prospectus for his translation of Destutt de Tracy's Treatise on Political Economy: "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, —the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.'"

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:42 AM

12. thank you, sinkingfeeling

Re your username -- me, too.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:16 AM

2. Jefferson lived in a time before the Industrial & Computer revolutions

The problem with today's world is that work is finite, as finite as water or oil.

The means of production were so low in Jefferson's time that they never ran up against the finite quality of work.

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:21 AM

6. also, Jeffereson didn't say it

further, that Siegel guy has zero interest in Jefferson, the Constitution, anything else. He just wants more money.

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:31 AM

9. And the obsession with "Free Trade"

In Jeffersons day and for quite some time the US had tariffs on goods imported that unfairly competed with products produced here. That has pretty much gone by the wayside and laws favor the free movement of capital around the world. Labor on the other hand is not free to move around the globe.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:18 AM

3. My interpretation of "those who would not", whether this quote is attributable

to Jefferson or not (and since this comes from a RWer I assume it is not, in fact), is "those who REFUSE to work".

Mr. Siegel is an ass. His taxes go to pay mostly for infrastructure and military (which I guarantee you he loves) and government services for the populace. Social Security and Medicare are not payments to those who refuse to work. So his only legitimate beef is AFDC and general welfare (which virtually no one can get anymore, and only for a brief time).

He needs to suck it up or move to Somalia.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:19 AM

4. No, it is something Cal Thomas made up

Te closest thing Jefferson said to that is:

"To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, —the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.'"

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:22 AM

7. That would be Cal "used to be the #2 man in the Moral Majority" Thomas?

Just reminding people of his context, a reminder of why he has a column.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:22 AM

8. Must be nice to just make shit up, huh?

Those of us in the reality-based community don't have that luxury.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:20 AM

5. No, this is not a Jefferson quote, but let us all make believe it is

He also endorsed slavery as a necessary evil and holding a tiger by its tail, so...

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:36 AM

10. I don't know if he said that or not, but I do know he didn't ...

author the Constitution. So I'm pretty sure Mr. Siegel is an idiot.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:40 AM

11. the quote smells, stylistically that is not 18th century English

One more thing, the Constitution, which Jefferson had nothing to do with, he was the US Ambassador in Paris, is not the Declaration, which Jefferson did indeed pen.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:45 AM

13. "I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company....

because selling my $16M yacht is out of the question."

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:48 AM

15. If I was a Republican, I would vote Democratic this election.


Because I don't respond well to threats.


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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:49 AM

16. The workers are the ones with the skill, CEOs push papers around all day exploiting them.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:50 AM

17. Good article on quotes made up by right-wingers....

The Right’s Library of Fake Quotes
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4053

QUOTE:

Abraham Lincoln despised class warfare, Thomas Jefferson detested bailouts and the founders of the nation were all Bible-believing Christians. These are among the historical “facts” you’ll learn as a regular consumer of talk radio, Fox News and other conservative sources.

While non-conservatives have been known to misquote historical figures to add credibility to their own views, the right seems to have a special enthusiasm for putting words in dead people’s mouths.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:51 AM

18. Only in the same reality that Paul Revere rang bells and fired warning shots.

Which is to say, Republican reality, where history is invented after the fact.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:13 PM

19. Jefferson wrote the constitution???

I thought he was in France during the convention.

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