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Tue Dec 6, 2011, 08:25 PM

Will binary thinking follow us here into DU3 as well?

Last edited Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:50 AM - Edit history (1)

I think one of the most insidious things about the two party system is the binary thinking it induces in people.

It is my belief that the two parties use "issues" (often called "social issues" but also including more minor things too) to divide people and distract them from the major issue. What is the major issue? Economics, class and poverty of course.

But now that political parties have such a clear read on the values of the consumers (read "voters"), they can select freely among wedge issues the will split off groups in ways conducive to them. They can also play good cop/bad cop more easily and collude with each other.

For most issues, one or the other political party has already staked ground and "claimed" the issue for themselves. Let's take "national security" as an example. It used to belong solely to the Republicans, but thanks to Pres. Obama, it has been "reclaimed". Now we can all agree or disagree about whether or not missiles should be fired from drone aircraft and "accidentally" blowing up people in Pakistan and Afghanistan and Yemen, etc. --BUT to form an opinion of the issue based on whether the leader of the country is a Democrat or a Republican is surely insane. This is the flip side of the "binary thinking" model.

Generally when we think of binary thinking, we think of choosing the other side of an issue reflexively because of the position of our "opposition" (Republicans), but the opposite is also true. There is a tendency to approve of a position because our side is doing it. To me, this is what happens when you do not have a clear moral compass and doing so is a virtual guarantee that your party will creep towards a position on issue that is popular but which has no moral grounding.

Let us remember that it is economics and the fight for the rights of the poor and working class that created the Democratic Party Let us retain our own moral compass and not be swayed but he rhetoric of the other side OR our side.

Let us use this new DU to discuss issues without succumbing to binary thinking -but rather to try to arrive at dialectic solutions to problems using a moral and not a political compass. That's what I hope for anyway.

remdi95

20 replies, 2356 views

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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Will binary thinking follow us here into DU3 as well? (Original post)
Bonobo Dec 2011 OP
joshcryer Dec 2011 #1
ellisonz Dec 2011 #4
krispos42 Dec 2011 #2
cliffordu Dec 2011 #3
Renew Deal Dec 2011 #9
Rex Dec 2011 #5
LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #6
Bonobo Dec 2011 #7
joshcryer Dec 2011 #10
Bonobo Dec 2011 #11
joshcryer Dec 2011 #12
Bonobo Dec 2011 #13
ellisonz Dec 2011 #14
joshcryer Dec 2011 #16
ellisonz Dec 2011 #18
joshcryer Dec 2011 #15
Bonobo Dec 2011 #17
joshcryer Dec 2011 #19
Hutzpa Dec 2011 #20
Codeine Dec 2011 #8

Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 08:54 PM

1. I do not believe that is an example of binary thinking so much party loyalty.

And then, it is clearly being illustrated in a binary way.

"There are people who believe some things are not OK when a Republican is President but those same things are OK when a Democrat is President." That is a purely binary way of thinking, right there. Maybe, just maybe, some of the people who are OK with, say, a drone attack under a Republican President are OK with a drone attack with a Democratic President. There's your non-binary option right there.

So to answer your binary proposal?

Yes.

It will only stop when we start listening to what others are saying and stop boxing them in as is so often done.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 09:12 PM

4. My God.

Civility as an approach to government!

We need to pull our collective heads out of the sand and start thinking about what actually has to be done to take this country back for the American people, and not just the wealthy and elite.

Also, Josh is my nominee for Poster of the Year

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 08:55 PM

2. *flips coin*

No.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 09:11 PM

3. Well......

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 10:08 PM

9. lol

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 09:13 PM

5. Binary thinking is a state of mind that currently infests half the human race.

I've always been for trinary thinking.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 09:17 PM

6. I don't know, but I do know that school kids shouldn't be forced to clean toilets.

 

I'm thinking of reading your post later.

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Response to LoZoccolo (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 10:00 PM

7. Yes, but your opinion was overly formed by the suggestion from Newt Gingrich.

My post was meant to refute his suggestion in fact -to diffuse it.

Newt played Dems cleverly with that. By making that over the top suggestion, he got a lot of people to twitch their knees and pale at the thought that kids should have to do hard work. THAT played into his hands.

In Japan, kids clean their classrooms and hallways for about 15 minutes every day. They grow up with it as a matter-of-fact thing. It is "atarimae" ("of course" that they should have to clean their own place.

"Cleaning toilets" is shorthand for something appalling to you and causes a knee-jerk response. It is typical and symptomatic of rigid thinking and exaggeration to back it up. You don't think kids should clean toilets, ok. But you use that as a way to dismiss even the entire idea of kids cleaning -WHY? because Newt suggested it (for pay and only for poor kids -the OPPOSITE of what I suggested).

In other words, you allowed Newt Gingrich to define the argument, define the issue.

But then again, allowing issues to be defined for you and lacking a moral compass reaches a sort of peak among your posts, so I am not really surprised.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 10:18 PM

10. I do not believe that you know the reasons he believes that.

And I find the reasoning to back your belief up to be suspiciously binary.

Is it that maybe only things are binary when you disagree with them, even if your disagreement itself is binary?

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 10:46 PM

11. Infinite regression funhouse

I stated my opinion and your opinion on my opinion is just your opinion and my opinion of your opinion of my opinion is that it is your opinion -that's my opinion and you are welcome to your opinion.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:00 PM

12. I believe that my opinion is certainly open to more than two choices.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:02 PM

13. You're the guy who is going to be busy handing out apologies when Libya descends further into chaos

and death, right?

Or were you just going to wait for apologies from others when it is doesn't?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:08 PM

14. Libya hasn't descended into chaos and death.

And there are no indications that it will be in the future...

Heck, the same could have been said about the US in 1783 and Libya doesn't have to deal with a division anywhere near the size of the problem of slavery. Libya is going to be a stable, prosperous democracy.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:11 PM

16. Yes, he was making an observation about a 'binary' position I 'may' have held.

I remember our exchange well, and I did not say, unequivocally, that Libya would not descend into chaos. My position was that it was unlikely (a nonzero value, yet not unity), and that in fact I expected there to be skirmishes.

There were a total of three (I've been following it).

I was wrong.

Happily.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:23 PM

18. I saw red.

Libya is free! Libya is free! Libya is free!

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:09 PM

15. I'm pretty sure my position is that it would continue as it was, with a bit of both.

I admit that I was wrong and that, indeed, the chaos and death has been lacking. Hasn't been anything big since Saif went down.

Much to the dismay of all of those people whose apologies I probably won't get.

It could flare up any time now though, PM is locking down the weapons, and that can go either way.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:17 PM

17. The thing is, having been born before MTV, I don't measure things in weekly increments.

So all snark aside, we will see.

It IS possible that this will be one of the extremely rare cases in which a military invention and hostile overthrow of a stable government will lead to peace and prosperity, but we shall see.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:40 PM

19. The point was, I never claimed a binary...

..."Libya is free of violence!" or something like that. A purely binary position that cannot be supported. Yet I read all the time that Obama is a corporate shill, that he only cares about the 1%, stuff like that, clearly the same type of unsupported claim.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 11:50 PM

20. I think if anything

this is with regards to Newt, it shows an example of what to expect if he becomes the
nominee and I can see a lot of dems falling into his trap. (knee jerk reaction)

He tried it with Speaker Pelosi too not that I think he succeeded personally, but it is
something for dems to nip in the bud.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Dec 6, 2011, 10:04 PM

8. 01011001 01000101 01010011. 01101110 01110100

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