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Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:45 AM

Axelrod on Farce the Nation

Explains why Obama did not take on Romney in the debate.

He was taken back by the boldness of the Romney lies. He used the word dishonest, but we can all call it lies.



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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Axelrod on Farce the Nation (Original post)
liberal N proud Oct 2012 OP
still_one Oct 2012 #1
JoePhilly Oct 2012 #3
OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #10
SunsetDreams Oct 2012 #13
still_one Oct 2012 #17
JoePhilly Oct 2012 #31
still_one Oct 2012 #15
treestar Oct 2012 #20
still_one Oct 2012 #30
lunatica Oct 2012 #5
SunsetDreams Oct 2012 #12
treestar Oct 2012 #22
magical thyme Oct 2012 #34
BumRushDaShow Oct 2012 #26
JoePhilly Oct 2012 #32
andym Oct 2012 #2
lunatica Oct 2012 #7
andym Oct 2012 #16
lunatica Oct 2012 #21
andym Oct 2012 #23
lunatica Oct 2012 #25
andym Oct 2012 #27
lunatica Oct 2012 #28
liberal N proud Oct 2012 #29
andym Oct 2012 #33
andym Oct 2012 #35
treestar Oct 2012 #4
garthranzz Oct 2012 #9
treestar Oct 2012 #19
Curtland1015 Oct 2012 #6
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #8
mfcorey1 Oct 2012 #11
ChisolmTrailDem Oct 2012 #14
fugop Oct 2012 #18
ChisolmTrailDem Oct 2012 #24
BlueStreak Oct 2012 #36
Tom_x Oct 2012 #37
mazzarro Oct 2012 #38
gulliver Oct 2012 #39
oswaldactedalone Oct 2012 #40

Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:51 AM

1. "Taken back by the lies"? All he had to say was, "governor romney everything you have said for the

past year you have just contradicted yourself. How can anyone believe what you say"

and why the President did not say that is beyond me.

and it was a serious blunder

especially when he said romoney and him mostly agree on social security

There is a lot of clean-up that now has to be done because of it, and unfortunately, romney is now getting funding again

No one can afford to have a "bad day"

The stakes are too high


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Response to still_one (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:57 AM

3. Obama said almost exactly that about Romney's tax plan. Seems no one heard it.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:06 AM

10. +1. They were too busy having massive knee-jerk reactions. nt.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:09 AM

13. +1000 here is the one you are talking about

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Response to SunsetDreams (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:16 AM

17. I can understand the corporate media wanting to ignore it, but it is quite disappointing that many

on DU would close their ears to that

However, I suspect they wanted it to be repeated during the debates


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Response to still_one (Reply #17)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:05 PM

31. I think what happened, is Mitt would simply repeat the lies even after Obama pointed it out.

Obama also called Mitt out for his false claim that his (Romney's) health care plan would still cover those with preexisting conditions.

No one seems to have caught that one either.

Obama also refuted the $716m Medicare lie that ROmney's been telling. I saw one count where Romney repeated that lie 10 different times.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:13 AM

15. I was working so I didn't hear the debates, and have been getting my news from DU. This is the

first I have seen that


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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:24 AM

20. Yes, where's this false meme coming from?

It's almost like they are trying to help the media help Rmoney.

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Response to treestar (Reply #20)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:00 PM

30. The media obviously, and repeated here

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Response to still_one (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:02 AM

5. Too bad you're not running instead of President Obama

By all means continue to trash him. That'll surely help.

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Response to still_one (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:07 AM

12. He did without coming right out and saying the word liar...he didn't need to

Here is just one exchange of several

MR. LEHRER: Yeah.

Do you challenge what the governor just said about his own plan?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, for 18 months heís been running on this tax plan. And now, five weeks before the election, heís saying that his big, bold idea is ďnever mind.Ē And the fact is that if you are lowering the rates the way you describe, Governor, then it is not possible to come up with enough deductions and loopholes that only affect high-income individuals to avoid either raising the deficit or burdening the middle class. Itís -- itís math. Itís arithmetic.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/03/us/politics/transcript-of-the-first-presidential-debate-in-denver.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all

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Response to SunsetDreams (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:25 AM

22. +1

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Response to SunsetDreams (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:31 PM

34. +1 that was part of the few minutes I *was* able to watch

Pres Obama seemed tired, but not ineffective.

He simply couldn't afford to get into a debate over what Romney had or had not said in the past because once you're sucked down that rathole, no good comes of it.

Romney had nothing to lose by going for broke with his loudmouthed lies. Obama had more to lose by getting sucked into a rathole than just riding it out and sticking to his plan as much as possible.

Do I wish Obama had shown more energy? Sure. But better that he be quietly honest than coked up and in a blowhard match.

Romney would win a blowhard match and Obama knows it. Same reason I've given up on my teaparty sister. Bullies win blowhard matches most of the time because they practice being blowhards. Especially when they are blowharding against intelligent people who actually think about what they're saying and are more interested in being honest than out-shouting a shit-dumping asshole.

I'm betting the non-confrontational formats, such as town hall, will favor consideration more than assholes.

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Response to still_one (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:42 AM

26. HERE is the transcript

Do you recall this?

LEHRER: That's where we started. Yeah. Do you challenge what the governor just said about his own plan?Do you challenge what the governor just said about his own plan?

OBAMA: Well, for 18 months he's been running on this tax plan. And now, five weeks before the election, he's saying that his big, bold idea is, "Never mind."

And the fact is that if you are lowering the rates the way you described, Governor, then it is not possible to come up with enough deductions and loopholes that only affect high-income individuals to avoid either raising the deficit or burdening the middle class. It's -- it's math. It's arithmetic.

<snip>

LEHRER: ... if Obamacare is repealed. How would you replace it?

ROMNEY: Well, actually it's -- it's -- it's a lengthy description. But, number one, preexisting conditions are covered under my plan. Number two, young people are able to stay on their family plan. That's already offered in the private marketplace. You don't have to have the government mandate that for that to occur.

<snip>

OBAMA: It just reminds me of, you know, he says that he's going to close deductions and loopholes for his tax plan. That's how it's going to be paid for, but we don't know the details. He says that he's going to replace Dodd-Frank, Wall Street reform, but we don't know exactly which ones. He won't tell us. He now says he's going to replace Obamacare and ensure that all the good things that are in it are going to be in there and you don't have to worry.

And at some point, I think the American people have to ask themselves, is the reason that Governor Romney is keeping all these plans to replace secret because they're too good? Is it -- is it because that somehow middle-class families are going to benefit too much from them?

No. The reason is, is because, when we reform Wall Street, when we tackle the problem of pre-existing conditions, then, you know, these are tough problems and we've got to make choices. And the choices we've made have been ones that ultimately are benefiting middle-class families all across the country.

http://www.debates.org/index.php?page=october-3-2012-debate-transcript

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #26)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:06 PM

32. exactly.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:55 AM

2. So the President wasn't prepared for Romney to lie?!!

When Romney's been blatantly lying his entire campaign?! What was the President and his campaign staff thinking...

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Response to andym (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:04 AM

7. That he would tell the same lies he had been telling all along?

Everyone was expecting Romney to come out of Right field and he came out of Left field. But I'm sure you were better prepared right?

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Response to lunatica (Reply #7)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:15 AM

16. Yes I was prepared, because Romney telegraphed his Reagan vs Carter strategy for months

so it's no surprise that he would attempt to spin moderate after getting no where with spinning right. The whole "we built it" RNC theme showed he was willing to blatantly lie his $%^ off.

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Response to andym (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:24 AM

21. Well that sure makes you a lot smarter than Obama and his entire team

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Response to lunatica (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:26 AM

23. Yes it does. And that scares me. nt.

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Response to andym (Reply #23)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:41 AM

25. LOL!

I guess you missed the sarcasm gif. You're not as smart as you think you are.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #25)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:46 AM

27. Your sarcasm is irrelevant. It's scary that an amateur like me saw this coming and they didn't. nt.

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Response to andym (Reply #27)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:51 AM

28. LOL!

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Response to andym (Reply #27)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:57 AM

29. ...



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Response to andym (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:23 PM

33. If DUers can predict Romney's moves in advance, why didn't Axelrod, Plouffe, etc?

A week before the debate:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021416757

"Watching some of the video clips of Romney's GOP debates with McCain and "friends" in 2008 and Gingrich and "friends" this year, one thing that strikes me is that Romney is a good debater in that he stays focused, has seeming "facts" at this fingertips, and he feels free to lie and to act offended by the "lies" of his opponents. I expect Romney to attack the President continually during the debates and accuse him of misrepresenting Romney's positions. Romney really loves to accuse his opponent of behavior in which Romney himself engages. Romney seems to have no problem in angrily railing against his opponents. He clearly can be a "dirty" fighter, the same way he tripped his daughter in law to win the foot race at the family picnic.

My question is how best for President Obama to counter Romney? He can't leave false charges unanswered, yet he will want to be positive in explaining what happened during his administration and how he will move forward. Perhaps he should break out Reagan's old chestnut "There you go again" before Romney uses it himself..... I do think some humor might be needed to diffuse Romney. How do you think it will play out?"

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Response to andym (Reply #33)


Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:58 AM

4. The Rs rely on that sudden drama sort of thing

Because they have no substance, and they were rewarded for it with Reagan and Bush.

They were not with the Palin pick. That's when they'd done a dramatic thing in 2008. But it hasn't gotten through to them that it's not working any more. They've gone too far with it. Their presidential candidate changing positions should be looked at as flip flopping. We heard the media go after Kerry for it yet are they going after Mittens?

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Response to treestar (Reply #4)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:05 AM

9. The difference is we now have social media

The "intermediacy" of the media is dwindling. Folk are just waking up to the two-edged sword of email, youtube, twitter, etc., etc. There's more chatter, more nonsense (Drudge the Sludge) and thus more centrifugal civics. But it's also harder to control the discussion or spin. And when lies are told or Big Birds flipped off, the contrived drama - "mission accomplished" flashes across the screen, gets pundits in a sweat, and then becomes a laughingstock - a youtube rerun.

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Response to garthranzz (Reply #9)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:23 AM

19. I hope. Because in many ways the social media simply serves to

amplify the pundits - the pundits have their FB and Twitter and lots of followers. so people who don't watch them may get the sense of their ideas and then people don't like to go against the flow.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:02 AM

6. I understand the strategy behind it, I just don't think it was done very well.

It wasn't an unmitigated disaster. We can certainly spin it for some good political points.

But even still, even IF President Obama's strategy was to play it passive, he was off his game.

Again, I don't think it's gonna cost us the election or anything. It just seems weird to me when people think he was "brilliant" and "pulled it off perfectly".

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:04 AM

8. Well I am sorry I prefer if the President would be more aggressive.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:07 AM

11. Farce the Nation....LOOOOOOOOL!!! You nailed it!

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:11 AM

14. Matalin constantly spewing hatred

and addressing Krugman as "Professor" and saying it with such contempt, like Scott Brown.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #14)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:20 AM

18. Republicans hate education

And they love to demonize educators and educated people. Riles up the low info voters they prey upon.

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Response to fugop (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:29 AM

24. A couple of weeks or so ago someone here

posted a very good summary of what the big-picture agenda is of the rich + republican/right-wing machine. I wish very much that I had bookmarked that comment and maybe the person who posted it will see this and refer me to it but the jist was that the rich, having hi-jacked the republican party in this country, are attempting to transform the U.S. into a feudalist society. The denial of science and the contempt for knowledge and for teaching on the right is, I believe, a part of that transformation.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:52 PM

36. At this stage, how could anybody be surprised that Romney would just lie?

How could he not be prepared to say, "Governor Romney, that is just not true and you know it...."

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:55 PM

37. Jesus cripes

You watch that corporate whore media propaganda ?

You're a lost cause.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:01 PM

38. Obama tend to soft pedal his answers/comments so as not to appear hash!

That makes his answers convoluted and roundabout instead of direct and straight to the point. By the time he has gone the roundabout way to get to the answer the viewer has either become bored or forgotten the question. Why does he feel he has to be accommodating all the times to rePIGs is still what I do not know. By now he should have learned that they mean him no go good in the first place.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:07 PM

39. It takes more than ninety minutes to get Romney

I went into this debate with low expectations. I assumed Obama would want to be cool and methodical and that Romney would lie and pretend to be anyone but Mitt Romney. If that happened, then Obama would win on a judges' decision. There wasn't going to be a knock-out.

Obama now knows at least a few things he didn't know before. One of which is that the left wing punditry, blogosphere, and netroots will panic and frag him if he doesn't give them an outlet for their debate fantasies. That, coupled with the fact that certain rhetorical dynamics now favor Obama, makes me think we are going to see a funner debate next time.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:46 PM

40. "Why does he feel he has to be accommodating all the times to rePIGs is still what I do not know."

I don't understand this either

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