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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPPP: Wisconsin now a statistical tie
Obama 49 to Romney 47.
Big jump for Romney. PPP credits his debate performance.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_WI_1006.pdf
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)PPP's newest Wisconsin poll finds a big debate bump for Mitt Romney in the state. Two weeks ago he trailed Barack Obama by 7 points there, 52-45. Now he's pulled to within two points, with Obama's lead now just 49-47.
There's not much doubt it was Romney's strong debate performance on Wednesday night that's given him this boost. Voters think he won the debate by a 61/25 margin, including a 60/19 margin with independents. 95% of Republicans think Romney won the debate, while only 50% of Democrats claim to think Obama was the winner. Romney's image has seen significant improvement over the last couple weeks with 49% of voters now expressing a positive opinion of him to 48% with a negative one. That's up a net 8 points from a 44/51 spread on our last poll.
The main shift compared to 2 weeks ago in Wisconsin is an increase in Republican enthusiasm about Romney and the election in general. He's gone from leading Obama by 79 points with Republicans (89-10) to an 85 point advantage (92-7). One thing that might be reassuring for Democrats is that Obama's held steady with independents in the state, continuing to hold a 9 point lead.
There's also been a big uptick in Republican enthusiasm about the election. Two weeks ago there was basically no enthusiasm gap with 65% of Democrats and 63% of GOP voters saying they were 'very excited' to vote this fall. Now the Republicans are seeing an advantage on that question with their share of 'very excited' voters climbing to 72% while the Democrats have declined to 63%.
- more -
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/10/obama-lead-down-to-2-in-wisconsin.html
If Obama is staying steady and winning independents by the same pre-debate margin, Romney's plus is all Republicans.
http://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/254707993717899264
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Reuters also shows Romney's gain is among Republicans.
A bunch of RW polls and one-day polls (which are as useless as snap polls) were dumped all at once over the last couple of days.
The only two polls in the mix that aren't RW are Gallup and Reuters, and neither shows the absurd results these RW polls are showing.
A couple of days ago: Romney gains after debate ... with Republicans (Obama with independents)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021473097
Today: Ipsos/Reuters Daily Election Tracking: Obama 47% - Romney 45%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021485353
More from Ipsos/Reuters poll: Obama still more liked than Romney despite poor debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021485522
Obama gained a point yesterday in Gallup.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/10/what_do_the_post-debate_polls_say.php
Today, the margin is back to three points.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx
Nothing earth shattering in either of those polls.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)Jeff Fecke ?@jkfecke
@ppppolls not surprising. Friday Mitt's bounce was peaking; Friday night (most) people found out abt unemployment.
mick063
(2,424 posts)He moved to the left overnight. There is a huge portion of the GOP that has been alienated by the Tea Party.
Mitt's change of heart made a few undecided Republicans climb back on board. For a moderate Republican, President Obama is more closely aligned with their views than Ryan. The closer Mitt's platform gets to President Obama's platform, the more GOP centrists he will pick up.
The PPP is calling it "nearly even" because the big media news outlets WANT it that way.
That way they get more ratings.
cash__whatiwant
(396 posts)abumbyanyothername
(2,711 posts)a Democratic bias.
cali
(114,904 posts)that all the polls were lying and wrong.
It's just sad seeing DUers decide that reality isn't to their liking so they'll just deny it. I suggest reading Nate Silver's latest. Then you can sputter some more about how Nate is lying and all wrong.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/oct-6-romney-maintains-poll-momentum/
Archae
(46,314 posts)November 6th, to be exact.
cali
(114,904 posts)polls are a snapshot of where things stand at any given moment.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)in a bullshit poll that shows Romney winning the black vote..
Gravis Marketing Has Willard Romney Winning The African American Vote In CO 60%-40%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251123534
We can laugh a "freepwads" without being equally stupid.
Here's Nate:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/oct-6-romney-maintains-poll-momentum/
Now, that was a nice way of saying the poll is bullshit, but why the hell is Nate Silver giving these polls credibility? The poll is ludicrous. Still, if they want to take these absurd polls seriously an increase Republican delusion, so be it.
"Fair and balanced" is creating the impression that psychos rule this country. You see, Republicans are complaining about the polls so every poll has to be given merit.
Lying is Genius. Greed is good. Vague is brilliant. Cheating is American.
cali
(114,904 posts)gee, why would I trust Siver's take on the status of the race over yours? Hmmm. Might be because he knows what he's doing and has a proven track record.
Denial ain't and all that.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Do you believe Nate when he says: "Although Gravis Marketing polls have had a very strong Republican lean so far this cycle"?
Do you believe that Mitt is winning the black vote in CO by 60 to 40 percent?
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)incredibly enough two of them were for Romney.
Do you acknowledge that Mitt's gain came among Republicans and Obama still hold a pre-debate lead among independents: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021486421#post3
Do you understand that PPP indicates the bounce, even while saying it's among Republicans, is short-lived?
bigtree
(85,986 posts). . . just the opposite direction.
ProSense, at least, is making the more credible observation that these first-debate polls are traditionally favorable to the challenger and traditionally ephemeral; all made more moot by the latest economic news (real-world stuff)
You keep arguing that the esoteric and fluffery of the debate has some kind of mojo that real-world events and the basic structure of Obama's support, so far, is at some dire risk because of his debate performance. You're working overtime to convince that fluff and crap win over substance.
Curiouser, you look to be relegating all that is actually essential and consequential about the president's performance in office to a second-tier status; and, working to convince that real-world, life-affecting performance by this president is less important than the theater reviews from the debate.
All I see, Cali, is a desperate attempt to defend the indefensible position of joining in the media-driven hype that relegates substance, truth, and competency to a back seat; in favor of a critique of debate dramatics.
But, I'll play along . . . long enough turn you over to Nate Silver and his initial take on the debate 'bounce.'
There may be some mitigating factors for Mr. Obama. First, although the conventional wisdom was that Mr. Obama had a lackluster performance throughout most of the debate he certainly had an extremely cautious and defensive strategy there were few obvious moments in which he said things that will make for compelling YouTube clips or cable news soundbites.
Second, head-to-head polls throughout the election cycle have been hard to influence for any reason. There are few undecided voters remaining and undecided voters may be less likely than others to have actually watched the debates.
Still, it seems likely that Mr. Romney will make at least some gains in head-to-head polls after the debate, and entirely plausible that they will be toward the high end of the historical range, in which polls moved by about three percentage points toward the candidate who was thought to have the stronger debate.
The FiveThirtyEight now-cast our estimate of what would happen in an election held immediately had Mr. Romney trailing by a wider margin than three points in advance of the debate. (Instead, it put his deficit at about five points nationwide.) But our Nov. 6 forecast anticipated that the race would tighten some. Its going to take a few days for any reaction to the debate to filter through the FiveThirtyEight model.
My own instant reaction is that Mr. Romney may have done the equivalent of kicking a field goal, perhaps not bringing the race to a draw, but setting himself up in such a way that his comeback chances have improved by a material amount. The news cycle will be busy between now and Nov. 6, with a jobs report coming out on Friday, a vice-presidential debate next week and then two more presidential debates on Oct. 16 and Oct. 22.
meh.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I realize he's trying to keep the far-right off his back but I'm afraid being too a little too lenient in the inclusiveness department, for too long, may harm his credibility in the long run, especially if he allows the use of clearly biased polls like Gravis, which, as you and some others have candidly pointed out, has Romney supposedly winning 3/5ths of African-American voters in Colorado.
dsc
(52,155 posts)Blacks make up, according to the census bureau, 4.3% of the population of Colorado. If they are neither more nor less likely to vote than the population as a whole, they would make up 4.3% of the electorate as well. If that were the case, the spread they found (40 to 58 in Romney's favor translates to 1.72% to 2.49% for a margin of -.77%. The spread we would expect (say 90 to 10 in Obama's favor) would translate to 3.87% to 0.43% or a margin of 3.44% in Obama's favor for a total difference in margin of 4.21%. The margin they found in the poll was Romney by 3.5% so the corrected poll would be Obama by .71% well within the MOE. Now that isn't to say their might not have been other problems with the poll too. But the problem we see isn't enough to change the poll.
BumRushDaShow
(128,746 posts)than the President, but everywhere else, he is getting blitzed 2-1.
http://www.freep.com/article/20121005/NEWS15/121005064/Barack-Obama-Mitt-Romney-TV-ad-compaign
nebenaube
(3,496 posts)There will be 14,000 votes pulled out of thin air the day after the election giving Romney the win.
BumRushDaShow
(128,746 posts)It's sad. But I don't think they can go that high with the fraud. Especially after the fiasco with the RNC and Sproul.
ananda
(28,856 posts).. simply because they can! The first two frauds were like
test cases to see if they could; and since they did get away
with it, they will continue.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)39% are not sure.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Never give your opponent an opening. Yes, I can believe that the debate shored up Republican voters to actually go vote. That wasn't a good thing.
Let's hope Obama brings it for the home stretch. We'll need it.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/10/obama-lead-down-to-2-in-wisconsin.html
gkhouston
(21,642 posts)writes3000
(4,734 posts)Negative nancys look for crappy! Their rose is always off the bloom!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)They're just itching to post these kinds of polls as they scold DU for some reason or another.
So transparent.
DisabledAmerican
(452 posts)by them
Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #26)
Skip Intro This message was self-deleted by its author.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)but it will be short-lived
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Again...short-lived
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)The glass is always half empty with you as you try to bring people down to your level of misery. It gets very old.
No wonder why 45 people have you on ignore
cali
(114,904 posts)And surely you don't think I care how many people have me on ignore.
I'm not miserable, but I will be if Mittwit becomes President and I'll be damned if I'm going to pretend that that isn't a possibility just because it bugs some DUers when everyone isn't acting as if the President has this in the bag.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)and was blindsided by the results. I look at numbers now. There were people here swearing Kerry was going to win and that numbers were wrong. I listened to them then but never again. My learning curve was steep. Peace.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I wasn't blindsided by 04. And I got crucified by some here for saying the polls suggested Bush* was going to win. I'm a realist. However, I feel good about the underlying structure of this race.
But none of us can predict the future.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)personal characteristics. It can't be overstated how damaging it was for Obama to wither and shrivel before the American people when discussing his economic record and agenda.
writes3000
(4,734 posts)Historically, the incumbent almost always takes a bruising in the first debate. And historically, the state of the race tends to snap back to what it was pre-debate.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)rate dropping. People will care more about that than the debates.
blue neen
(12,319 posts)I see.
Something significant like that could possibly be worth noting in your OP.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Step 1: Tighten the race by getting Obama's clock cleaned at debate
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit
Only puppetmaster Axelrod knows Step 2
blue neen
(12,319 posts)Please explain Steps 2 and 3.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)lol sorry
blue neen
(12,319 posts)Sorry, I don't watch the show.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)still_one
(92,116 posts)Justify there results
The fact is this country voted bush in two terms and they still haven't learned their lesson
Also, Wisconsin voted out one of the most decent people, Russ feingold
Elections have consequences
Except this time if the Democrats lose the country will not recover for decades
NeoConsSuck
(2,544 posts)Please pull your head out of your butt and face reality:
FACT: Two weeks ago the Romney campaign, sensing that Wisconsin was a lost cause, stopped campaigning there and moved to other swing states.
Obama just opened the door and let them back in. And we still don't know how much damage was done in other swing states.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)it's not going to last and according to PPP Obama has maintained a 9-point lead with indies, the same as before the debate. It's only with GOP voters that Romney really made gains.
Godless in Seattle
(120 posts)The Show Me State flirts with going blue in every election cycle, but always ends up in the Republican column. Wisconsin is the Democratic equivalent. No need to sweat it: Badgers will be Blue a month from now!
Samantha
(9,314 posts)Overall, his polling a somewhat downward trend since the debate, but Wisconsin seems to be holding firm. I think the bounce Romney got after the debate will fade in time. Also the new jobs report will have an impact.
Sam
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)If Ryan beats Biden, he could see a bounce in Wisconisn.
Godless in Seattle
(120 posts)As I said earlier in this thread, Wisconsin will stay blue.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)in modern history. Blowing off debate prep for the Hoocer dam turns out to be indefensible.
fugop
(1,828 posts)The economic collapse and, "the fundamentals of the economy remain sound" ring a bell? How about "In what respect, Charlie?" Or "What magazines and newspapers do you read, Governor?"
The debate had an impact, yes, but PPP even tweeted that yesterday's numbers have rebounded. The hyperbole is ridiculous.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)RagAss
(13,832 posts)And I hope the Koch brothers turn the screws on them even tighter !!!!!
Iggy
(1,418 posts)stating Wisconsin is a lock for Obama!
uhhhh...I've been saying there's something afoot in WI for awhile now, i.e. Scott Wanker elected
(twice).. voters there dumping progressive Senator Feingold, etc.
Wisconsin becoming more like Ohio is not good.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)And if the President avoids chewing his tongue again in the next debate, Obama/Biden are in for four more years. Joe should handle young Dracula this week.
budkin
(6,699 posts)He can't keep a lead there.