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Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:54 PM

 

One of my surprising days on DU,

Here I am, probably one of the most vociferous leftist critics of Obama on this board, but I find myself defending him and his performance last night.

From my point of view, Romeny came across as a spoiled, petulant, whiny, imperious little rich kid, who bullies and whines to get his way. He is willing to do or say anything, including lying, in order to score points. I thought, at the time, that this came across clearly, not just to me, but to millions of others who were tuned in.

I also thought his actions were odd. Frankly, he was twitchy and stuttering, he looked like a used car salesman coming off of a two day coke bender. Again, at the time, I thought this was apparent to everybody.

The president came across as calm, cool, intelligent and respectful of the forum and the people. Now then, I wasn't expecting much coming in. I knew that Obama is not a natural fire breathing, barn burning debater. I figured that he would do exactly what he did, act Presidential, take notes on what Romney's upcoming strategy is, and play defense. This is exactly what every other incumbent president does in the first debate, and that is exactly what Obama did. But there was also a bonus. Obama carefully fed Romney enough rope to hang himself time and again, it was masterful.

During the two minute wrap up, I thought that at worst Obama have achieved a tie, and I still think that. But then again, I don't let the media do my thinking either. But even I was surprised at the on air melt down put on by MSNBC. Over and over, the same mems were being put out by the media, Romney was feisty, Obama didn't seem engaged, etc. etc. I started to wonder if we had watched the same debate. Then I remembered something basic, something important.

The media wants a horse race. They want this election to come down to the wire, or, as in 2000, preferably into overtime. It sells ads, it sells copy, it makes much more money for the media if it is a close race than a race where Obama is pulling away leaving Romney floundering.

So once again, the media has put on a show, and sadly, a lot of people on the right and the left have fallen for it, to one extent or another. The left is wailing and gnashing its teeth, the right is whooping and high fiving, but the one thing that neither of these sides seems to see is that this is, by and large, a media driven reaction.

Think back to the final two minutes of the debate last night, before the media came on and did a collective freak out. What was your opinion of the debate, what did you think before the media infected your brain. That is probably the most honest, real opinion you have of the debate. Hang on to that, and oh, don't panic.

This is first of a series of debates, and when you have a series of debate you have to play the long game. That is what Obama is doing, and this was but the first step. Things aren't going to hell, as many seem to want to believe. The media is indeed picking up on Romney's lies, and the polls haven't really moved any, and probably won't move much, if at all. In a couple of weeks this will be forgotten and the next debate will be upon us. Next time, don't let the media influence your thinking.

Geez, I can't believe it is me who is giving this sort of pep talk supportive of the President, just bizarre. But somebody has to do it.

110 replies, 9218 views

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Arrow 110 replies Author Time Post
Reply One of my surprising days on DU, (Original post)
MadHound Oct 2012 OP
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #1
MadHound Oct 2012 #8
Indpndnt Oct 2012 #2
Floyd_Gondolli Oct 2012 #3
ananda Oct 2012 #4
fasttense Oct 2012 #94
gkhouston Oct 2012 #5
MadHound Oct 2012 #12
gkhouston Oct 2012 #25
bigwillq Oct 2012 #33
MadHound Oct 2012 #47
Blanks Oct 2012 #107
Cali_Democrat Oct 2012 #6
flamingdem Oct 2012 #21
Misskittycat Oct 2012 #91
DonCoquixote Oct 2012 #7
Starry Messenger Oct 2012 #9
immoderate Oct 2012 #10
Teamster Jeff Oct 2012 #11
MadHound Oct 2012 #15
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #36
MadHound Oct 2012 #49
JTG of the PRB Oct 2012 #80
politicaljack78 Oct 2012 #82
JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #13
dionysus Oct 2012 #14
MadHound Oct 2012 #16
dionysus Oct 2012 #96
ecstatic Oct 2012 #17
MadHound Oct 2012 #26
BlueMTexpat Oct 2012 #40
Kber Oct 2012 #106
treestar Oct 2012 #52
MadHound Oct 2012 #56
Horse with no Name Oct 2012 #77
Quantess Oct 2012 #18
mrs_p Oct 2012 #19
Voice for Peace Oct 2012 #109
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2012 #20
scheming daemons Oct 2012 #22
MadHound Oct 2012 #28
Robb Oct 2012 #29
William Seger Oct 2012 #54
Ikonoklast Oct 2012 #62
Squinch Oct 2012 #72
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #58
renegade000 Oct 2012 #23
Ikonoklast Oct 2012 #24
MadHound Oct 2012 #27
Ikonoklast Oct 2012 #61
Raine Oct 2012 #30
Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #31
stlsaxman Oct 2012 #32
warrior1 Oct 2012 #34
Jennicut Oct 2012 #35
Chorophyll Oct 2012 #39
Jennicut Oct 2012 #44
sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #42
Jennicut Oct 2012 #45
Tsiyu Oct 2012 #60
MadHound Oct 2012 #53
Jennicut Oct 2012 #92
Chorophyll Oct 2012 #37
Skraxx Oct 2012 #38
Son of Gob Oct 2012 #41
rustydog Oct 2012 #43
Blue_In_AK Oct 2012 #46
rtassi Oct 2012 #48
Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2012 #50
-Steph- Oct 2012 #51
bigtree Oct 2012 #55
MadHound Oct 2012 #57
bigtree Oct 2012 #65
MadHound Oct 2012 #67
DireStrike Oct 2012 #59
porphyrian Oct 2012 #63
Spike89 Oct 2012 #64
bigbrother05 Oct 2012 #66
grantcart Oct 2012 #68
MadHound Oct 2012 #69
progressivebydesign Oct 2012 #70
D23MIURG23 Oct 2012 #71
hue Oct 2012 #73
4 more years Oct 2012 #74
OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #76
Wednesdays Oct 2012 #84
Indpndnt Oct 2012 #86
madinmaryland Oct 2012 #75
Iris Oct 2012 #78
tularetom Oct 2012 #79
Bluenorthwest Oct 2012 #81
Indpndnt Oct 2012 #88
Politicub Oct 2012 #83
zeemike Oct 2012 #85
jaysunb Oct 2012 #87
Mojorabbit Oct 2012 #89
heaven05 Oct 2012 #90
scgrad96 Oct 2012 #93
barbtries Oct 2012 #95
Raster Oct 2012 #97
KoKo Oct 2012 #98
dog_lovin_dem Oct 2012 #99
lillypaddle Oct 2012 #100
countryjake Oct 2012 #101
librechik Oct 2012 #102
proud2BlibKansan Oct 2012 #103
Uncle Joe Oct 2012 #104
snooper2 Oct 2012 #105
MissMarple Oct 2012 #108
Downtown Hound Oct 2012 #110

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:59 PM

1. Gee Madhound, I liked the other Madhound better.

I like good fight. Your posts normally raise my blood pressure, but they are good fights.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:04 PM

8. Don't worry, I'll be back to my usual self in a day or so,

 

Raising blood pressure everywhere and fighting the good fights

I was just blown away by the reaction, first by MSNBC crew, then the rest of the media, and finally here. Ah well, nice to see I can be surprised, and surprising, this place after a decade.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:00 PM

2. And you did it very well.



And folks need to go check out the photo of 30,000 people at Obama's Madison, Wisconsin rally today. They didn't stay home and fret. They're still moving forward. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021471831|

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:00 PM

3. Excellent post

 

I felt the same way you did about Romney. What I noticed was that he was landing punches well during the first 1/3 of the debate, but there were diminishing returns the rest of the way. I didn't watch MSNBC, or C-Span, I watched CNN with their real-time graph of a focus group.

Obviously not scientific, but my sense is Romney won on style, but may have turned people off in the process, particularly women. He flatlined with women every time he spoke in the second half of the debate.

I think what we're already seeing is the sugar high he got from last night is ending and the disection has begun and it's not good for him. And what's more, it gives Obama a clear blue print for the next one which will no doubt have a more competent moderator.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:01 PM

4. Thank you!

It's clear to me that most people saw through Romney's shenanigans.

The media, however, is a different story . . . .

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Response to ananda (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:20 AM

94. When Mittens used that boy comment, I kinda stopped listening.

So, I pulled up my book and tried not to hear the TV (My hubby was watching). So I'm not a good indicator of how Obama did. On the surface of it, it looked like Romney did well. Until you start going over exactly what he said.

Really, you call your grown sons Boys? Really you equate the President of the United States to Boys? Really you will fire the moderator and Big Bird?

Really you are that rude and condescending to older people?

Really you call the President of the United States a liar and turn around and lie over 30 times?

It took me a while to see through what Romney actual did at the debate but I wasn't listening. It was only after I started thinking about what Romney said, that I realized Mittens is truly scum.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:01 PM

5. Just curious... what channel did you watch the debate on? n/t

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Response to gkhouston (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:05 PM

12. MSNBC,

 

Though I skipped around a bit for the post-debate hoo-haw.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #12)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:14 PM

25. Did they have the split-screen showing both candidates' faces throughout the debate.

It seems to me that some DUers who thought the President looked like he was collected and Romney looked liked a lunatic saw the debate on C-SPAN, where they had the split-screen going the entire time. Watching the candidates while they weren't speaking was telling.

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Response to gkhouston (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:29 PM

33. I watched on CNN. Split screen.

It was telling.

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Response to gkhouston (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:48 PM

47. Yeah, they had the split screen,

 

And in my opinion it was a negative for Romney, because he was twitching and tweaking and smirking the entire time he wasn't speaking.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #47)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:46 PM

107. I thought he looked especially bad when Obama was talking about Dodd-Frank. eom

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:02 PM

6. This is exactly right

Good analysis.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:10 PM

21. +1

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:49 PM

91. Agree. I was shocked when pundits called Romney's performance strong.

I thought he looked nervous and insecure -- when he wasn't acting aggressive and obnoxious.

I was wondering whether I watched the same debate as the TV commentators.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:03 PM

7. I tend to lock horns with you

But perhaps the clearest sign of the truth is when two people that normally disagree come to the same conclusion.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:04 PM

9. I'm feeling the same way!

I was surprised to see which direction the cries of despair were coming from. LOL.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:05 PM

10. I'm coming around to thinking that Obama rope-a-doped Romney.

Obama, in his way, was flawless. That is to say did nothing that can be used against him. Now I think Obama compiled material that he can ride to the election.

I just heard him make "accountant" jokes, mocking Mitt to his huge audience. He is tearing Mitt apart.

--imm

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:05 PM

11. I agree 100% and

that..

" he looked like a used car salesman coming off of a two day coke bender"


is freaking awesome!

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Response to Teamster Jeff (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:07 PM

15. It's the truth,

 

My god, he was twitching and stuttering, badly. He was getting red and probably was sweating buckets but the industrial pancake makeup kept it from flowing down his face. The man was an absolute wreck.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:32 PM

36. What happened to his tan? He seemed to have lost it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:49 PM

49. God yes,

 

Hell, if it wasn't for the makeup he had, he would have been completely red in the face. As it was, he looked weirdly blotchy.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:06 PM

80. That was the FIRST thing I said when I was watching with my parents!

"Hey, what happened to Romney's tan? He doesn't look like a giant Oompa Loompa anymore!"

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:12 PM

82. Spray tan must have worn off...n/t

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:05 PM

13. This coming from you may give

the knee-jerkers some food for actual thought.

Nice post.

Julie

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:06 PM

14. wow, i agree with you on something! let's have a beer.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:08 PM

16. A beer is a good thing

 



Now then, tomorrow, or perhaps the day after, we'll have to get back to things as usual, OK

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Response to MadHound (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:31 AM

96. ok

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:08 PM

17. Before hearing the pundits, I was really frustrated at how long Romney was allowed to speak

especially when his statements were false. I don't think lies should be allowed to stand. They have to be struck down on the spot, not the next day. I also was furious about how Lehrer interrupted Obama, but not Romney. I also was furious that Robme was not forced to answer questions, and was allowed to pivot to the topics of his choosing.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:15 PM

26. Well, Obama actually had four more minutes speaking time than Romney.

 

And sure, you can get into calling out a lie for what it is, and Obama tried that on the cost of Romney's tax proposal, that famous five trillion figure. Romney got called on that lie several times throughout the debate, but Romney just kept saying "nuh-unh, not me". So it comes to the point where you either just stick to this one point and hammer it home for the entire debate, or you move on and let the fact checkers and people in general decide for themselves. It seems to have worked in Obama's favor in the end, for while Romney is being hailed as being "feisty" and taking it to the President, he's also being called out for his lies over and over.

Lehrer is simply far too polite, and he finally did manage to corral Romney once. But the rest of the time Romney was just steamrolling over Lehrer everytime he opened his mouth. Yes, Obama was respectful and deferential to a point with Lehrer, but you know what, the sum coming out of that was that Romney was looking like a jerk, while Obama looked like a President.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:34 PM

40. That was absolutely my take.

Romney's entitled rich speed-lying bully-boy persona was clearly on display at the debate.

If anything, his performance demonstrated why he should never be near the Oval Office in any capacity whatsoever.





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Response to MadHound (Reply #26)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:42 PM

106. Obama had more time? That is really interesting.

Maybe because Romney's voice grates on my nerves and Obama's statements actually interested me, but it really didn't seem that way to me or to my husband at all.

Not that I think you are wrong - not at all.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:52 PM

52. I've seen this one stated over and over now

Why do lies have to be struck down on the spot? Why not let the viewer see it for themselves? Not everyone has to be spoon fed.

Not everyone complete forgets everything the next day, either. And now we have you-tube and ads can be made on the spot with the clips.

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Response to treestar (Reply #52)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:55 PM

56. Thank you,

 

In fact I think it would have been counterproductive for Obama to try and strike down every lie immediately. It would have looked small, and devolved into ninety minutes of "uh-huh", "nunh unh", he said, he said that would have made Obama look small.

Romney's lies were indeed on display for all to see, and I think Obama played it right, letting Romney have enough rope to hang himself.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #56)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:57 PM

77. I agree.

I posted the video earlier of the Texas Senatorial debate the night before and the Democratic candidate tried to call out every lie--he was shredded in the media, albeit the very biased media for it and his frustration level visibly soared.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:09 PM

18. I love your cynicism!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:09 PM

19. 100% agree

It was hard to believe that we all saw the same debate.

I saw an aggressor who was rude, disrespectful, and wants to kill Big Bird. He was figgity and arrogant and didn't follow the debate rules.

I saw a sitting president, acting, well, presidential - taking notes, talking facts with the people.

I would have ripped Romney's eyes out as there is nothing I hate more than a liar (well, maybe a racist), but that's why I would/should never be president.

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Response to mrs_p (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 03:42 PM

109. +1

me too ..agree with you

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:10 PM

20. I agree 100%.

It wasn't one of Obama's best performances, but what I finally took away from the debate wasn't so much substantive (with Mittens doing all that lying it was hard to get down to substance), but the vibe of the whole thing. If you turned off the sound and just watched, Obama seemed calm while Romney acted like an angry tweaker. Right now the media are running with just a few ideas: Romney "won" because he was aggressive and talked fast, but he also lied through his teeth and wants to kill Big Bird. That's what will be remembered. The fact-checking is taking place; people are defending PBS and another debate will happen. Mittens might get a little poll bump that probably won't last - but he needed a home run and he only was able to single. It's not the bottom of the ninth yet.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:11 PM

22. Strange.. when Obama's up, you tear him down. When he's down, you build him up.

Interesting....

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:19 PM

28. Keep 'em guessing, that's what I always say. n/t

 

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:20 PM

29. Contrarianism has its own rewards.

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Response to Robb (Reply #29)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:54 PM

54. No it doesn't

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Response to William Seger (Reply #54)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:19 PM

62. No soup for you!

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Response to William Seger (Reply #54)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:43 PM

72. Heh heh heh

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Response to Robb (Reply #29)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:58 PM

58. Truth has its own rewards. Some people just tell the truth and then are some

who can't handle the truth.

Those who tell the truth have credibility.

Those who try to suppress the truth have none.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:12 PM

23. i think romney's victory was Pyrrhic

everyone is losing it because they expected obama to win, and the fact that he didn't is indeed a disappointment. but, what has romney achieved? his platform (if you can call it that) is now even more blatantly a mess of ad hoc contradictions and misrepresentations than before. once the media and the obama campaign keep driving this home... it's not going to help him....

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:13 PM

24. Skinner, whoever repaced Romney with a different model also replaced MadHound.

I smell a coinspiracy is afoot.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:18 PM

27. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

 

Don't worry, I'll switch back in a day or so. Wouldn't want to discombobulate everybody.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #27)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:15 PM

61. And For That, I Thank The Powers That Made Me.

You almost single-handedly threw the entire galaxy off its axis.


Stop fucking around like that.

Seriesly.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:21 PM

30. You summed up the way I feel EXACTLY, THANK YOU! I feel like I

fell down the rabbit hole or this is reverse day the way people are crapping all over Obama and I'm defensive of him. Rmoney came off as a lying bully and Obama was calm, cool, intelligent and presidential.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:27 PM

31. Wow, exactly. Like you, I have no shortage of complaints and disappointments with the President's

 

administration, but wow. It wasn't nearly as bad as so many posts (OK, I only stopped in for a few minutes) here are saying. He didn't have anything like what could be described as a good night, but damn, neither was it anywhere close to the worst Presidential circus I've seen just in recent history.

Hang on folks. The world will keep turning. Rmoney is still an empty suit with an agenda so transparent that even many republicans see right through it.

Is it just that people were expecting it to be over last night? That the President would just walk in, beat the crap out him on the stage, declare victory, and get back to the work of turning the nation over to our corporate overlords?

I think we're going to see a whole bunch of new and devastating ads drawn from that basket of bald-faced lies. They are going to beat him over the head with his own lies every day until November 6th.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:27 PM

32. "The media wants a horse race..." This is exactly right.

if romney is behind by 8 points obama has a narrow lead. if romney is ahead by 3- it's a mandate against obama.

this is why the multi-nationals pay these "journalists" so much.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:29 PM

34. I think the President did very well yesterday.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:29 PM

35. "I don't let the media do my thinking either"

Very important. I love MSNBC and their hosts but I like to watch their opinions. They are not always mine.

And I don't freak out easily. And I have been having a crappy ass week. A really, really horrible week. My cousin committed suicide a few days ago at 24 years old and I just don't have the time and energy for bullshit this week. Instead of wringing my hands I am going to be proactive. Life is too short for pearl clutching and worrying.

I have seen posts where people think Obama's Presidency is done. I mean, what? What did Obama do today? He got back out there and is fighting on the stump. I am not sure why people are not doing the same today.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:34 PM

39. Jennicut, I'm sorry for your loss.

And you're right. People are wigging out for no reason.

My heart goes out to you and your family.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #39)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:41 PM

44. Thanks.

My parents are in Long Island right now with my other family members and I didn't want my kids to miss school so I stayed here in Connecticut. Just been a really sad week.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:37 PM

42. I am sorry about your cousin. That is very hard to deal with.

It does put things in perspective.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #42)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:42 PM

45. Thank you.

He had so much to live for but it is hard to understand what depression can lead to.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #45)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:13 PM

60. Sorry to hear Jennicut



It is hard to understand - my condolences to you and your family and to all those who loved your cousin.


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Response to Jennicut (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:52 PM

53. I'm sorry for your loss,

 

I've had a person close to me take their own life, and it is never easy. My suggestion, for what it's worth, hang close with the rest of your family and friends. They need you now more than ever, just as you need them now. Give it time, it always does heal.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #53)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:59 PM

92. Thanks so much.

Got a call from my Mom tonight after she went to the wake. I told her to hug all my aunts and cousins for me. I spent some great time with my daughters tonight, just really needed that.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:32 PM

37. Just a good post. That's all.

I appreciate it. I can't stand the meltdown today.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:33 PM

38. I Am In 100% Rock Solid Agreement With You

Well said. Obama is the master of the long game.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:36 PM

41. Well said.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:40 PM

43. It is nice to see someone who saw what I saw last night.

Of course, I was yelling at the tv screen almost every time Romney opened his mouth. He did look unprepared, he rushed his statements, stammered and lied, lied then lied some more for good measure.
Not campainging misstatements, he out and out bald-face lied about almost everything!

Obama was cool, calm and factual. What I expected from my President.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:45 PM

46. 100% agree, MadHound

I liked last night's Obama. Romney was an ass.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:49 PM

48. well stated, with the added benefit of being true I believe ...n/t

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:50 PM

50. Romney won battle, but Obama was cool & will win the war. Romney's lies won't fade like his bounce.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:52 PM

51. You summed up very nicely what I have been feeling since the debate ended

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:55 PM

55. damn

there it is

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Response to bigtree (Reply #55)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:57 PM

57. Surprise!

 

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Response to MadHound (Reply #57)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:21 PM

65. not really surprised

you always give a reasoned argument

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Response to bigtree (Reply #65)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:25 PM

67. Thank you, seriously.

 

I know that we don't agree on a lot of things(though perhaps more than we'd both care to admit to), but I do appreciate that you respect what I have to say, even if you disagree with it.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:12 PM

59. I don't agree, but I'm glad you took the time to give a thoughtful analysis

Unlike so many others who just have a kneejerk attack for any perceived threat to Obama.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:19 PM

63. . n/t

 

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:20 PM

64. Agree, but so more surprised at the importance placed on it

Seriously, debates in primaries when we're getting to know the candidates are slightly important, but Presidential debates are just not that influential. People who are paying any attention already know the basic positions of the candidates, they've already heard most of the stump speeches, or at least the excerpts and highlights. The conventions are nothing but huge promos for the candidates and their platforms. Those that haven't paid enough attention to know what the POTUS (who's been in the political spotlight for more than 5+ years) and the GOP candidate (who's been running for 5+ years!) stand for...well, those folk aren't going to watch or care about the debates.

We learned (or should have learned) how relatively unimportant the debates are when Kerry totally dismantled Bush in their first debate. It didn't change the dynamic much at all--at that time, pretty much 95% of the electorate had made up their minds. I think it is pretty much that way now.

Romney could promise a sharply leftist agenda and free ponies and he wouldn't convince anyone to switch votes--he might get a few right wingers to stay home and possibly pick up a few idiots who like ponies (not everyone who likes ponies is an idiot). His problem is that most people already think he'll say anything to get elected, so pandering only reinforces that meme and alienates the red-meat republican base.

To be fair, nothing Obama says would convince Repugs to switch to him either.

This election, like the recent ones, is all about the turnout. In that, I think Romney failed because to "win" the debate, he had to turn his back on his base and that was his only advantage (the teabagger hatred of Obama). If they stay home, he isn't just toast, he's burnt to a crisp.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:24 PM

66. Rev Al was the only one that made any sense

He noted the optics of the debate, but made the perfect point that no performance could hide the nonstop lying and that Rmoney will have to answer for it the rest of the campaign.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:30 PM

68. I agree with you. Unfortunately I also know that I am not a good objective source.


I also think that DU wants everything at the Grayson decibel level.


But most people seem to be disagreeing.


Did even one state, say NC move firmly to Romney's side?


Intrade is at 67 so they seem to be agreeing with you.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #68)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:34 PM

69. I think you're right about the Grayson decibel level,

 

I also think that expectations were really cranked out of proportion.

The time to get a really accurate reading on the effects of the debate will be the early polling next week. Give time for things to sink in, time for people to think, and then see where they go. I doubt that very much will happen either way. We'll see. It certainly was the disaster that MSNBC and other individuals portrayed it, like I said earlier, at worst, it is a draw for Obama.

But the media wants a horse race. . .

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:35 PM

70. agree with you completely. People are talking about Romney's weirdness today, not victory. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:39 PM

71. My honest opinion was that Romney was repellent, and that Obama was underwhelming.

It was an ugly spectacle and I didn't think either of them looked good. I think Romney was given a lot of points for the fact that he was aggressive and self assured, but he was quite obviously lying out of both sides of his face, and I felt his aggression was over the top.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:43 PM

73. Thanks!! I love Your take on this!! Beautiful because it's true!!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:50 PM

74. Really bad night

JUST really upset with the missed opportunity last night. WTF is going on ?? Call this NUT out on his lies for god sake. WAKE the Fu-K up DEMS.

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Response to 4 more years (Reply #74)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:56 PM

76. Just curious, but did you....

...actually watch the debate last night and/or read the OP's post?

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #76)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:31 PM

84. *crickets*

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Response to 4 more years (Reply #74)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:34 PM

86. Lol!

At least you didn't end up with this post hidden like the other one. Movin' on up!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:51 PM

75. My wife and felt the same way. We were stunned when Rachel Maddow came on and they

were all bashing Obama's performance. We both had that WTF look.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:58 PM

78. Romney acted like an asshole.

And THAT'S what Obama supporters should have driven home.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:04 PM

79. The president mailed it in last night and I think he realizes that

Because he did a 180 in his speeches today. He didn't actually come out and call Romney a liar but he strongly implied that he was one. Last night he seemed like he didn't really give a shit whether he got reelected or not. But today he was upbeat, passionate and on message and he sounded eager to get a second term.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying the story that his lackluster performance last night was part of some carefully orchestrated rope a dope strategy designed to force Romney to tip his hand so that Obama could move in for the kill. I think the president simply had a really bad night.

But I also think the end result will be the same. Obama seems to have shrugged off whatever was bothering him last evening and has gone back on the attack.

Sorry but last night just wasn't the opening move in a 12 dimensional chess game.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:10 PM

81. Willard came off like a hard closing huckster. He looked bad.

He was like a coked up Mamet chrarcter trying to sell a timeshare to a dying man.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #81)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:36 PM

88. Or like someone told that, if he lost the debate, he'd end up in the Hunger Games. For real.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:25 PM

83. :) thank you for this post

I thought the wild, cocained binged crazy eyes would have made the news.

But I was sucked into the msnbc vortex of negativity like many others.

It wasn't until I turned the tv off and had a chance to think about the debate for myself that I came to the conclusion that the president did the right thing.

He let Romney continue to dig a deeper and deeper hole to fill with lies. I'm glad he didn't get into a tit for tat with the rude asshole Romney.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:34 PM

85. What you said MadHound.

I saw it different apparently than many...
But sometimes I think I am living in the movie 1984, where Winston asked Julie if she believed in the resistance and she said "no Winston it is not real, none of it is real"
It all seems lit a big TV production with the goal of selling you a product...In this case the product is the Mittens or Obama but it has to be close or the race is not interesting or profitable.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:36 PM

87. The most honest post of the day. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:42 PM

89. Honestly I thought he was awful

and this is how I gauge it. I was yelling at the tv and Obama for not refuting the lies Romney was telling. He also nodded his head frequently as though he was agreeing with what Romney said which I am sure he does without thinking when listening to someone talk but he should not have done it here. It was horrible and I did not need the media to tell me that. My local paper has nothing on Romney lying nor did the local news I watch here in Fl. It was a total lost opportunity.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:44 PM

90. okay

I hope it's the long game.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:30 PM

93. Thank you for your assessment!

MadHound,

Plain and simply put, I couldn't agree with you more. I am not about to panic because all hope (actually no hope) was lost last night. President Obama had a trick up his sleeves. Just because he didn't debate the way some wishes he would have, this doesn't mean he's wearing egg on his face. The tone was set for the next debate. The more time Mittens has to think about all his inconsistencies and lies, the more he'll be swayed off balance and wondering how the president is going to come at him. In other words, he's now against the ropes! I can't wait for round 2!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:23 AM

95. i'm glad you did.

i watched Rachel - she started her show with "Romney won" and repeated it several times. she went to great lengths to give the president's "loss" in the first debate historical perspective and to calm the hand wringing. but she was certainly not equivocal about giving the win to the lying bastard romney.

as for me, i'm just soaking up reaction. i didn't watch the debate because for one thing my vote is written in stone anyway, and for second, it makes my blood pressure rise watching and hearing the LIES that flow from not just romney but just about every fucking republican out there. so i did myself a favor.

it is really helpful for me to understand that many people who watched the debate gave the win to the president. it wasn't such a slam dunk as rachel and almost the entire media world would have us believe. thank you.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:14 AM

97. The Media wants a horse race. DU wanted a knife fight.

I eagerly await the other debates, ESPECIALLY Biden v. Ryan. Now there's our knife fight.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:37 AM

98. Agree...the MSM hopped all over it to keep interest in the horse race going for their profit


And, while I was disappointed there wasn't more substance to the debate, I thought it had more to do with Jim Lehrer and the format than Obama "being off his game or not energized." (which the MSM kept yammering on about). Romney had his chance and he ended up spouting more lies which will be fact-checked and exhibiting his weird, robotic quality to millions more of Americans who might not have been keeping up with him.

Thanks for this post.



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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:39 AM

99. Thank you, Madhound.

I spent most of yesterday attempting to convey this exact message to my worried friends and family. You put into words my reaction to the debate and the aftermath. Now, all I have to do is let my people read your post!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:44 AM

100. Oh, You!

You're just a cheerleader!

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding)

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:37 PM

101. Very good thoughts!

And I so agree with your estimation of how our Prez carried himself throughout the debate...the difference between his bearing and Rmoney's hyperness was so obvious to me. Tho, I had the advantage of viewing with an in-house superbly critical mate, who actually at one point wished that Lehrer would have jumped up and physically throttled ole Mitch, I was still surprised by so much of the reaction posted here at DU. I did not listen to any of the post-debate analysis, instead opting to watch the entire thing over again, so I finally came on here expecting to see some good apt descriptions of the frantic sleaze that the rethugs have chosen as their best bet to beat President Obama. That man would have been penalized in any real debate; he played the whole affair in the exact same manner as rabid right-wingers have as their MO...rudely.

All I can say (and agreeing with the point of your post) is that it seems many simply need to blow up their tvs. If we can't listen to the MSM knowing that they have but one purpose, then just shut it all off and go by one's own instincts.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:45 PM

102. What MadHound said.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:29 PM

103. My thoughts exactly

And now that we know Rmoney cheated, it's all making more sense.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:40 PM

104. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, MadHound.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:42 PM

105. Thanks for writing this, I saw your posts and thought damn he's been hitting the bottle

was a little worried LOL

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:54 PM

108. Exactly what you said!

After watching the debate the phrase that came to mind was "rope a dope".

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 05:02 PM

110. Well, as a fellow hound who occasionally butts heads with you but most of the time agrees with you

I'll chalk this up to one of the times I agree with you. I would love to ask all the glowing media pundits what's so great about a performance in which Romney lies about pretty much EVERYTHING. "I'm going to have a 5 trillion dollar tax cut! I'm NOT going to have a 5 trillion dollar tax cut! My job is to ignore 47% of the population! I'm not going to ignore 47% of the population! Tax breaks for moving factories offshore? Never heard of them. I just moved all mine there because I like Chinese people!"

Obama could have done WAY better on hammering Romney on his lies. But overall, he did okay.

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