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Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:39 PM

The Backfire Effect: why Obama didn't call out Romney.

"But why would people so woefully lacking in the basic facts of an issue think they were the best informed? Social scientists call the effect, 'pseudo-certainty.' I call it, 'being a fucking moron.'" -- Al Franken

The use of cognitive bias against the public can probably be traced back to the United States' foundation. Consider, for example, the rapier-like tact Americans used in the Declaration of Independence, directing all of their ire against Great Britain's slowly maddening King instead of the Parliament that they knew had wronged them. I think it is a classic example of misdirection, in the same family of dishonesty as mentioning Osama bin Laden in the same paragraph every time one mentions Saddam Hussein.

Last night, Mitt Romney made the most of a particular cognitive bias which we all need to know about. It is called the Backfire Effect. Here is a link to the paper.

People have a bad habit of clinging to disinformation, particularly if they are fed the disinformation first. If the disinformation is refuted, many of us simply give up trying to figure the problem out and default to the first thing we learned, and if the first thing we learned is crap, we believe the crap.

We are all vulnerable to some degree to the Backfire Effect, but there is a critical difference in the way the Backfire Effect works between conservatives and liberals, Democrats and Republicans.

The shortest version I can give is this: when a conservative lies and a liberal refutes the lie, conservative observers become more likely to believe the lie. This effect does not work in reverse--because liberals have better thinking skills, I say, but I'm biased. This is part of the reason why an alarming number of American doofuses are still shambling about thinking that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, and why the vast majority of them are Republicans.

Up to now, Mitt Romney's biggest problem has been that he hasn't won over the right-wing authoritarians who make up the most important voting bloc in the Republican Party, and maybe in all of American politics. They are diligent voters and can be easily programmed with lies, fear, and racism, of which they are fed a steady diet by Fox News and AM radio. Almost one in four Americans fits the profile of a right-wing authoritarian.

Despite every effort, right down to nominating arch-conservative darling Paul Ryan, Romney just hasn't been able to convince them that he's their guy.

And why should they think so, when Romney gamed the nomination process, knocked off the conservative authorities they trust one by one, and silenced all dissent at the convention? He had to steal it from them before he can steal it from us, and they haven't easily forgotten.

Last night was Romney's last big chance. He's got the press and the pollsters pulling for him to make it a closer race, because it is to their personal, professional, and financial advantage. He has finally assembled the captive audience of right-wing authoritarians he needs to win over. All he needed to do was to finally, permanently, establish himself as a conservative authority, someone the conservatives can trust.

He needed President Obama to help him, by doing what every Democrat, including myself, wanted him to do: call Mitt a liar.

So Mitt Romney went out and did what he's best at. He lied his ass off. He changed a central plank of his platform at the debate in an attempt to draw out President Obama, to encourage the President to raise his voice and express outrage at such malicious dishonesty.

But President Obama wouldn't bite.

Instead, the President stuck to his own policy, his own platform, and pointed out only the most basic and agreed-upon flaws in whatever Romney's so-called plan is today (or rather, last night, because I'm sure he's walking back half of what he said right now). He tried not to show flashes of anger or disgust, as Al Gore so tragically did in 2000.

It was probably disappointing to all of us here to see the President steer away from direct confrontation, but it probably also sealed the election for him.

Consider what would have happened had the debate swung a different way.

Gov. Romney: "I'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. That's not my plan...."

President Obama: "That's bullshit. You've run on that all year."

Millions of Democrats would have stood up and cheered at that moment, to be sure, but it wouldn't have done a damned thing to change the political landscape because we're all already going to go out and vote for President Obama, and every other Democrat on the ballot. We're all registered now, right?

Just as certainly, a giant mob of tea-partiers would have been on their feet and whooping. That would have been the signal they needed, the sign from baby Jesus that Mitt Romney was the anointed one. They would have dusted off their IDs and registrations, and they would have come out and voted--at a higher frequency, unfortunately, than we do. Millions of our votes would have been canceled out.

We need to realize that right now an unusually high number of right-wing voters are far closer to reality than they usually are. They don't trust Mitt Romney, and they shouldn't, and it is to their credit that they do not in spite of the enormous psyops being run on them.

But we also need to acknowledge that these voters unfortunately tend strongly toward racism, and are highly motivated to vote against President Obama simply because he is a person of color. President Obama will never win their vote--but he might win their non-vote.

So that is why President Obama didn't "win" last night's debate. Because this debate wasn't about us. But do you know who is going to refute Mitt Romney's bullshit? We are. In the voting booth.

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Reply The Backfire Effect: why Obama didn't call out Romney. (Original post)
sofa king Oct 2012 OP
dionysus Oct 2012 #1
Deep13 Oct 2012 #2
HereSince1628 Oct 2012 #76
JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #3
FirstLight Oct 2012 #4
treestar Oct 2012 #5
Harry Monroe Oct 2012 #85
fleur-de-lisa Oct 2012 #6
dkf Oct 2012 #7
Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2012 #8
YellaDog1950 Oct 2012 #74
Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2012 #83
BumRushDaShow Oct 2012 #9
Bake Oct 2012 #10
Texin Oct 2012 #41
cmelo Oct 2012 #81
porphyrian Oct 2012 #11
redqueen Oct 2012 #12
LynneSin Oct 2012 #13
jonesgirl Oct 2012 #16
Liberal_Stalwart71 Oct 2012 #14
jonesgirl Oct 2012 #15
groundloop Oct 2012 #17
fasttense Oct 2012 #28
politicaljack78 Oct 2012 #18
hue Oct 2012 #19
Poiuyt Oct 2012 #20
SecularMotion Oct 2012 #32
47of74 Oct 2012 #21
Ikonoklast Oct 2012 #33
agent46 Oct 2012 #65
Ganja Ninja Oct 2012 #22
Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2012 #23
Skinner Oct 2012 #24
freshwest Oct 2012 #25
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2012 #26
MrScorpio Oct 2012 #27
steve2470 Oct 2012 #29
defacto7 Oct 2012 #30
JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #31
southern_belle Oct 2012 #34
JDPriestly Oct 2012 #64
Harry Monroe Oct 2012 #86
DaveJ Oct 2012 #35
Vietnameravet Oct 2012 #36
DaveJ Oct 2012 #37
tblue37 Oct 2012 #50
Tumbulu Oct 2012 #38
Knicks007 Oct 2012 #39
penndragon69 Oct 2012 #40
dropboss11 Oct 2012 #42
GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #43
DearAbby Oct 2012 #89
MatthewStLouis Oct 2012 #44
just1voice Oct 2012 #45
DinahMoeHum Oct 2012 #46
Hubert Flottz Oct 2012 #47
FailureToCommunicate Oct 2012 #48
BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2012 #49
KoKo Oct 2012 #51
KoKo Oct 2012 #52
Dyedinthewoolliberal Oct 2012 #53
Raine Oct 2012 #54
VespertineIconoclast Oct 2012 #55
rhiannon55 Oct 2012 #56
shireen Oct 2012 #57
Kurovski Oct 2012 #58
Pamelajaynn Oct 2012 #59
Turborama Oct 2012 #60
RagAss Oct 2012 #61
NoMoreWarNow Oct 2012 #75
flying rabbit Oct 2012 #62
Kali Oct 2012 #63
Shuhered Oct 2012 #66
emsimon33 Oct 2012 #67
King_Klonopin Oct 2012 #68
Cha Oct 2012 #69
Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #70
stlsaxman Oct 2012 #71
ermasdaughter Oct 2012 #72
littlemissmartypants Oct 2012 #73
mwb970 Oct 2012 #77
Iggy Oct 2012 #78
nenagh Oct 2012 #79
deutsey Oct 2012 #80
TreasonousBastard Oct 2012 #82
Tippy Oct 2012 #84
DLine Oct 2012 #87
thelarge Oct 2012 #88
ellenfl Oct 2012 #90
Paddy Ryan Oct 2012 #91

Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:41 PM

1. K&R

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:41 PM

2. Maybe. We'll have to see. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:43 AM

76. I'll endorse maybe, too

Because I don't think we'll know if that was a factor until Axelrod's book comes out.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:44 PM

3. another kick

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:47 PM

4. great angle

K&R

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:48 PM

5. That's true

These debates can shore up the base better than they can convince people so apolitical they probably don't watch them. And we know the base of the right never admits to being wrong. They would make Rmoney into a victim of Obama's attacks.

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Response to treestar (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:09 AM

85. I don't watch the debates, but I don't consider myself apolitical

I simply choose not to watch them, just like I choose not to watch the political conventions. I don't think they are representative at all of who the candidate really is. Especially with the spin by the party and the MSM put upon such shams. Especially with the Republican Party. I simply see these events as ways to energize their base and to legitimize and polish the complete and sorry turd that they picked as their candidate. Truth is on our side, we know that. And I believe that any independents out there know that as well.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:54 PM

6. This is the best post since last night's Big Bird debate . . .

please keep it going!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:56 PM

7. Actually he changed it a day or so before the debate.

 

It got noticed here. It's political malpractice that no one on the team gave Obama the heads up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021454694

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:12 PM

8. Not to mention the fact that "Moderate Mitt" showed up at the debate

The teabaggers will have to chew on that for a few days. "He said WHAT about regulation? Working with Democrats? He has a plan for pre-existing condition coverage?"

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:37 AM

74. That's exactly what I've been wondering about.

Unless they are behind rMoney hook, line & sinker, I would imagine that their heads spun around at some of the things that came out of his mouth. However, I can also see them accepting everything he said because they are well-trained in lying to win a debate, and they were aware of what he was doing.

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Response to YellaDog1950 (Reply #74)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:34 AM

83. "Lying for the right"?

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:21 PM

9. A big bingo!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:31 PM

10. It wasn't the conservatives who mattered last night.

They're going to believe Rmoney's bullshit no matter what. It was the undecideds.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:20 PM

41. Absolutely correct

The Republican base - including the Teabaggers who are merely renamed members of the same party who are the most extreme and racists - have no where else to go. They'll vote for anyone that calls themselves a Republican regardless of any particular position they might have because they can't abide the alternative. The same goes for most Democrats. The debates are all about shoring up support among the undecided voters and bolstering weak support among members of the party who may not be all that motivated to actually go out and vote on election day.

The undecided voters saw a completely ambushed President letting his opponent just mop up the stage with him. Obama could have gotten in a few verbal jabs instead of just letting the guy continue lying about his policies and programs. I guess he decided he'd let those things stand because denying and correcting Mittens on them would mean he'd be on the defensive.

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Response to Texin (Reply #41)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:24 AM

81. This reminds me of the Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman fight

Ali let Foreman win the first 7 rounds, Than knock him out in the 8 round after Foreman used up all his strength.....

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:36 PM

11. . n/t

 

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:02 PM

12. K&R

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:06 PM

13. Thank you for a better explanation then what I Could give

I think if Obama spent his time calling Mitt a liar then we would be playing Mitt's game - present fact and make his opponent attack.

There are 3 debates. Obama framed this debate by allowing Mitt to spew his lies and now the press is starting to do their job of showing the lies.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:17 PM

16. +1

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:10 PM

14. Bookmarked! The "backfire effect". That's very interesting. VERY!!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:16 PM

15. All DUers...Yahoo! News is having a field day with all the comments posted in favor of Romney. I've

left comments too...calling out Romney as a liar, and backslider. I've gotten many thumbs down on my comments, but I'll continue to stand up for President Obama. He needs all our support, and WE need him too.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:18 PM

17. I'm not buying this. Reagan's "Well there you go again" was a turning point....

Pres. O should have let R-Money tell a few lies and then pounced with that line.

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Response to groundloop (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:22 PM

28. But Romney called the President a boy and a liar

and I think it surprised the President.

See how Romney did the dog whistle racist comment (after all who calls their grown sons boys?) and claimed Obama was doing exactly what Romney was doing - lying over and over again.

There is no way in hell Romney is ever going to win this election, so instead he decided to insult the President with racist comments. The RepubliCONS were all giving each other high fives as they left the stage. They are just so proud of how evil Mittens is.

I don't think I could have hated Mittens more but yet I do.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:32 PM

18. Kick and Recommend !

Awesome post....but since I am not the POTUS, I will be now referring to candidate Romney as Pinocchio.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:38 PM

19. This is a good perspective!!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:41 PM

20. It sure would be nice if conservatives could think

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #20)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:34 PM

32. Then they wouldn't be conservatives

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:45 PM

21. Of course my local paper....

....in addition to turning their opinion page into sheets of right wing horseshit over the past couple days is full of backslapping conservatives today. The comments sections are full of teabilly fist pumps, inbred doucherocket high fives, Old Milwaukee Light toasts, and haaaeeeeeeeellll yeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhssss from the dumb fuck crowd that makes up our local right wing population here.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:34 PM

33. And the bitter tears they shed on Nov. 7 will taste sweet as nectar to me.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:40 AM

65. That was hilarious

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:50 PM

22. The man couldn't spend his whole night refuting Mitts lies.

He would have come off as being confused and lost.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:54 PM

23. Well written, well researched, cogent points. I agree with the thesis. Thank you for writing it.nt

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:55 PM

24. Outstanding post.

Fascinating. Thank you.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:55 PM

25. K & R and bookmarking to remember. Great OP.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:58 PM

26. The truth lies somewhere between the teeth-gnashing, garment rending and the N-dimensional chess.

Obama was caught flat on his feet due to inept moderation and absolutely shameless lying.

His strategy is mostly sound, but you can refute the lies by telling the truth - without getting into the shouting match that my gut would prefer.

Talk about Obamacare with pride; "Because you voted for me, your health coverage won't be taken away. If you can't afford it on your own, society will help you out. Medicare continues its promise to provide for the care of seniors and is solvent until 2026 (or whenever). My opponent has promised to undo all this, and if he succeeds, millions will die because they couldn't afford to live in his world. He's untroubled by that truth; he fully admits that he isn't worried about the poor."

That is sticking by your guns, sticking by the truth, and sticking by the story the public heard first.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:58 PM

27. That was an excellent piece of writing

You are spot on!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:28 PM

29. great post, thank you nt

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:31 PM

30. Yes, Yes, Yes

A thousand times yes!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:33 PM

31. Correct on all points!

Absolutely brilliant post. Cue the wild applause.



Julie

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:36 PM

34. Mitt appeared manic last night...

JMO, but maybe that's why Anne has been worried about his "emotional well-being" was the way she put it, IIRC...

I had two bipolar husbands and when they became manic, you couldn't talk to them, reason with them, the way he kept interrupting the moderator, etc...if the President would have argued with him, RMoney would have seemed even more irrational.

Just an observation

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Response to southern_belle (Reply #34)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:05 AM

64. If that is the case -- Romney is somewhat bipolar -- then he will get wilder and wilder

until his battery runs down and he becomes extremely depressed at which point let's hope Ann finds a good doctor.

It could be that he has a bit of a tendency toward a bipolar personality. Could very well be.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #64)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:16 AM

86. And if, God help us, he becomes President?

Remember, as President, his finger will be on the button. Not a comforting thought, but one that keeps me awake at night and terrifies me.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:41 PM

35. In short, be careful responding to lies in politics

Responding to a lie puts you on the defensive. They are better off ignored during a debate. The truth eventually rises to the surface all on its own.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:46 PM

36. Feel good post but

first of all no one is suggesting Obama say "That's bullshit. You've run on that all year."

You can stand your ground and make your points in ways that are much less aggressive than that.."There you go again" was great example of that..do it with a smile and a chuckle and you can say whatever you want...(almost.). Obama's should have seen this lie-fest coming and made preparations..

racists and tea baggers? ..well I dont think they are at all close to reality and I would not be concerned about irritating them..and i think its a loosing strategy to play soft to "win their non-vote,"

but in any event Obama could have put the race away last night with a strong, yet smiling, refutation of Romneys "changes of position" and better and clearer explanations of what he stood for....Doesnt have to be nasty but he has to show more conviction and enthusiasm.

People like people with conviction and right or wrong last night... that belonged to Romney...hopefully, the sunshine of the truth will cause that to fade..

And Obama's constant looking down didnt help either especially when contrasted with Mittsters looking right at him...remember perception is often reality and the perception was that Obama was defensive and withdrawn... i could feel myself get nervous at that. I have been in sales and advertising and professional "speech-a-fyin" for years and believe me that was not good!


Yes,we hope to win in the voting booth but with performances like last night and with a close race..this hurt..and denying it hurt wont make it better..and it's not just "us' in the booth..there are millions of others that are not "us' and make up their minds for the damnedest of reasons

I know a lot of people dont like to hear it but that it the truth...he lost..doesnt mean he lost the election...but Romney is happy for a reason..

The best we can hope is the media does what Obama did not do..point out the lies Romney told..and change the debate strategy next time.


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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:06 PM

37. In regard to looking down..

I, personally, want to vote for Obama even more after last night. I like him more now. He seems more human. My wife is constantly getting on me about eye contact, and I try to tell her that extrovert is not better than introvert (that's me). A lot of people think that, but it's not true at all. If people think that, they need to learn that they are wrong! Wrong. totally wrong. Romney is evil, and it makes total rational sense not to look evil in the face. Romney is a nobody and it makes perfect sense that the President has much more important things on his mind. Everything about Obama's demeanor made sense. And I totally understand this theory about eye contact and professional speeches, something that I will never be good at. That's because it does not come naturally, I feel it is wrong to assume that extroversion is right. I'm certain most people disagree with me but that's ok. Not everyone is the same.

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:19 PM

50. He was just making notes on Romney's points because there were so many being

thrown out (and they were all BS). He was not being submissive or avoiding looking at Romney.

I was much more bothered by Obama's habitual nodding while Romney was lying. It made it seem as though he was agreeing with the BS!

However, I still think Romney came across as though he was hyped on something, and his aggressive rudeness toward Jim Lehrer made him look like the a**hole he is already known to be.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:11 PM

38. Yes, I think you've got it

I feel that our president was simply tired of all the shenanigans and was just going to let him (Romney) produce a giant mess for himself and not help him do it.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:12 PM

39. rope a dope n/t

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:19 PM

40. Obama used the right tactics in the debate.

Obama came off cool and collected while Romney looked deranged and on the verge of
a mental breakdown. Spewing all the LIES and talking points that he had memorized
while constantly showing his CONTEMPT for the moderator and president Obama.

This shows America what kind of man romney is when under pressure, desperate and willing to say or do
anything to achieve his goal.
Someone gave him too many RedBulls before the debate.

And if Obama had jumped in on him and tried to bring him back down to a civil tone....
They would have called Obama the "ANGRY BLACK MAN".

Just wait......i think we will see plenty of adds about romneyies MENTAL condition
before it's all over.

He's a bullshit con-man who only knows how to bully people, a dangerous type person to
be in control of a Nuclear arsenal.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:22 PM

42. playing possum?

I had to come back and read this article again, very interesting. I for one did not think Obama loss the debate. He had the facts and was quite calm and collected. Romney looked nervous rushed and frazzled and said things that were not true that is haunting him today as the Obama team quickly made a new Ad. Obama's performance to me looked quite calculating. Romney may have done better than Obama thought he would, but to me, Romney fell into the trap that Obama set for him. He knew Romney was behind, had to throw a hail mary in the first debate...and now Obama has more ammunition to beat Romney over the head with. That Obama I tell ya

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:43 PM

43. I think this is complete and utter nonsense.

When you have the opportunity to point out your opponents blatant lies in front of 60 million people you do so. Obama totally failed last night and it was embarrassing. INstead of making excuses we need to send him the message to grow a spine and stand up to Romney.

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Response to GumboYaYa (Reply #43)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:29 PM

89. Obama is betting on the American People

to have been paying attention. The stupid American shit..is just that shit. People aren't stupid, they are just not paying attention...but something happened...the economy tanked, and we hired our first Black President. Then you believe they fell back to sleep? Some may have, but I am betting on the American people...We are watching Obama's back...all of us who voted for him...we waited for shit like this, because we all knew it would come...Obama is counting on us, to have been watching.

He didn't need to point out the lies, because we already knew they were lies. Even the Media knew they were lies...even FOX New they were lies...THE WHOLE GAWD DAMNED COUNTRY knew they were lies...why would we need Obama to point them out one by one with a cheesy run down cliche from Reagan to point them out?

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:50 PM

44. Thanks, interesting take. I don't know how Mitt's leftward tack figures in exactly.

If he wanted to motivate his right wing base why did he nearly sound like a democrat at times? At one point during the debate I was yelling at the TV asking the President to please please ask RMoney why he's transformed into a democrat all of a sudden?

I was thinking perhaps the President stayed away from RMoney's weak points so as not to give him a chance to redeem/explain himself. Let him continue to be the arsehole that he is, instead of giving him a chance to successfully rebut the 47% remarks, etc... (I think RMoney has even said he wished he could have stated it more "eloquently".)

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:05 PM

45. So it's important to enable liars for our own gain? LOL

 

I don't need to acknowledge that load of crap, especially when it is in the context of "post reality politics". How about this idea: people tell the truth and then bear the oh-so-terrible consequences for that. If that were to occur, then the debates might actually interest the majority of Americans and our very real and serious concerns about things like universal health care, endless wars, criminal banks and widespread corruption.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:09 PM

46. So IOW, Romney really wasn't aiming for the swing voters last night?

He was looking to shore up his conservative base, by proving to them that he was indeed their guy, despite any reservations they have about him being Mormon and all that? So that he could get their sorry asses to the voting booth no matter what?

If he's STILL appealing to his BASE at this late stage, Romney's in deep ca-ca come November.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:30 PM

47. I thought that each of president Obama's un-staged looks of disbelief, were better than

several thousands of words. It was like Mister Obama felt like he was at a liars convention, instead of a presidential debate. The president acted like a gentleman and told the truth, like I expected he would. It struck me that the president felt sorry for Mitt, with all his blather and lather. I expected also, that as soon as the fact checkers went to work Mitt,s Mad Cow Bounce, would be American History. I expected too, that if everybody out there playing the drinking game took a healthy red blooded American snort, every time Mitt told another whopper, there'd be a hell of a bunch of dead folks today from alcohol poisoning.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:06 PM

48. Refreshing take on last night! Obama stood incredulous next to Jello Man but if

Last edited Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:39 PM - Edit history (1)

he had been too aggressive people today would be wondering why he hates a nice dessert instead of why that smirking grown up wants to kill Big Bird.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:08 PM

49. one of the best analyses yet. thank you!

Excellent writing; I would truly like to see more of your work.

And of course, you had me with the Al Franken quote !

















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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:58 PM

51. It's an incredible post...until I got to the end of it..."Devil is in the Details" and

while it's inspiring as to how Obama is doing some "tactical Wizardry" at the end of this you reveal yourself as a very clever Operative.

What what it that faces the American People going forward. Neither Obama nor Romney addressed this issue. You chose to focus on some kind of "strategy" that Obama and his Campaign managers had or have going forward...but, many of us voters are OVER THAT...and you didn't supply "WHERE's the BEEF" of this debate.

But...I gotta give it to you...your Premise you started with sucked me in...until the end of it...and then my brain kicked in.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:02 PM

52. Big K&R...for an Incredible Introspection about our President.

:kick:

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:07 PM

53. Great analysis!

Thanks!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:19 PM

54. TOTALLY on point, THANKS! nt

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:55 PM

55. Well said and agreed. n/t

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:45 PM

56. Excellent writing. Thank you.

K&R!!!!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:18 PM

57. thought-provoking

But what effect does it really have on the audience?
* Are there enough "no-vote" conservatives to make a dent?
*How many independents were looking for answers from the candidates?
* How many independents were disappointed in Pres. Obama's lack of forceful responses?
* How many independents believed Gov. Romney's lies?

The arguments in your post are fascinating. But there are too many variables to know for sure how this debate will influence conservative and independent voters.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:43 PM

58. K&R

Veddy nice.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:50 PM

59. Wow

Totally agree rope a dope!! Obama is so much smarter than Romney like pudding in Obamas hands!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:18 PM

60. K&R for a well reasoned post and kudos for using the correct term "disinformation"

I get seriously irked whenever I see anyone describing reich wing lies as misinformation.

Also, your "psy ops" analysis nailed it.

Thanks for posting

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:28 PM

61. Yes....I'm the token Liberal at work. My philosophy has been simple this election season...

I tell my nutjob rw coworkers that I really wouldn't mind Mitt Romney being elected. He was a great governor who saved thousands of lives with Romneycare. It takes the fight right out of them. You can see the blood leave their faces. And this morning I greeted them all with "thats the Mitt Romney I remember !!"
They were as quiet as church mice all day.

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Response to RagAss (Reply #61)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 07:39 AM

75. awesome! kind of a jujitsu strategy

 

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:37 PM

62. Hmm...

I can buy that.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:36 AM

63. the evidence for your post that I saw

was a couple of times the President smiled to himself. just a glimpse of the cat with the canary in his mouth.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:50 AM

66. Great Article

I already voted in Iowa, for Obama. Your analysis was spot on. Four More Years.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 03:27 AM

67. So well articulated

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:08 AM

68. This post is sofa king good.

Remember, Obama got himself elected once already --
I am not African-American. I have no idea of the nuances
that come to play in everyday living for people of color.

But I think Obama knows that if he gets confrontative with
a rich white guy, like Mitty, about issues of race, class, or
"character issues" (such as Mitt's lying) it will trigger off racist
biases and prejudices. I'm sure he'd love to say,"who do you
think you are, calling me a 'boy' ?!" but he has to play it cool and
let others say it or see it for themselves. A position of self-defense
will be distorted into hostility and "anger" by the racist right.

Paul Mooney described the bias very well:
"If you're grinnin', you're winnin'. White folks
are scared of a black man who isn't smiling all the time."

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:18 AM

69. Well see, sofa king.. Loved

your analysis. The saga continues..

One thing cracks me up..sounds like romney was all tracking to the middle last night but he blurts out he's going to get rid of PBS. Yeah, and he loves Big Bird, but..

And, who doesn't love Downtown Abbey? Except the psychopath who wants to annihilate Muppets.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 05:22 AM

70. paraphrase: "when a liberal refutes the lie, conservatives become more likely to believe the lie."

How many times did we see this during Iraq?

They would parrot some nonsense floating around Free Republic and give a link to World Nut Daily, Newsmax or the Moonie Times and we would tell them it's not true and link to a "normal" site to prove it. Then they would claim the site is "Liberal" and "biased" and proclaim they were right all along and call us idiots and saunter off in victory as we watched in disbelief.

That pattern holds for EVERYTHING.

Example: An Idiot claims a Frisbee flies further if you throw it upside down. You tell them it's not true and link to an official site telling them how to throw a Frisbee. They tell you the site is obviously anti-American and Liberal. You tell them it's not and they claim an ad there is linked to Soros,....They then leave, tossing a Frisbee into their shoes.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 06:14 AM

71. President Obama was "Napoleonic" at the debate-

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 06:50 AM

72. Interesting angle...

Obama has always played a long game . This is as plausible as anything else I've heard.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 06:57 AM

73. Thank you.

.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:02 AM

77. Religious conservatives believe in a virgin birth, even though it's impossible.

Once you believe ONE impossible thing with all your heart, perhaps it becomes easier to believe OTHER impossible things.

'You needn't say "exactly",' the Queen remarked. 'I can believe it without that. Now I'll give you something to believe. I'm just one hundred and one, five months and a day.'

'I can't believe that!' said Alice.

'Can't you?' the Queen said in a pitying tone. 'Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.'

Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said 'one can't believe impossible things.'

'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!'

It's kind of sad when the closest approximation to conservative behavior is found in Alice In Wonderland.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:12 AM

78. Mehh, Over Complicated Take

 

Mitt at Debate (at least three times) "You spent $90 Billion in one year on incentives for
green industries"...

Obama response: Crickets...

Why was that?

Here's why: Solyndra and the constant bullcrap criticism from the reich wing-- "the government should
not be in the business of picking winners and losers".

Tell that to China, who's heavily state subsidized solar panel manufacturer Suntech is kicking our ass
in this market-- in fact Suntech's panels have been installed at at least one military base in CA; I believe
it's Edwards Air Force base.

Wind energy incentives are set to expire this year-- and guess what? due to "austerity" fever in congress,
I think it's safe to assume congress is stupid enough to let these credits expire.. weaken the industry in
our nation-- and thus throw open the door to Chinese (or EU) manufacturers to come in.

weak, very weak.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:30 AM

79. Thank you....I also feel the debate was a bit of an ambush... All articulate lies..

Romney was loaded for bear....and ready for a nasty fight.

Remember the 'you have a plane and the home' comment...directly attacking the President for the accoutrements of the Office of the Presidency...as if Pres Obama became president so he could live in a fancy house & fly around in a corporate Jet...

Just like Romney does now? As if only Romney is entitled? As if only a white person is entitled?

I think Romney was prepared, in his caffeinated or whatever state..to rip apart Pres Obama as in a dog fight... Romney's right wing supporters would be salivating at the sight... and they would forgive Romney any move to the center politically...if Romney gave them the satisfaction of seeing Romney call Pres Obama 'boy' on stage, in front of 60 million viewers.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:41 AM

80. Interesting food for thought. n/t

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:30 AM

82. Interesting take on it.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:46 AM

84. THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST

You brought joy to may heart, and put smile on my face.....normaly I would have really been upset watching the debate but I was't at all worried.....call it a gut feeling or what ever.

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:20 AM

87. Great analysis and loved the Franken quote

K&R

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:40 AM

88. Huck A Buck

 

Growing up, my heroes were confidence men, known as "Stuff Players" and "Pigeon Droppers". They would set up a "Mark" by allowing him to lie about his accomplishments. Then, they would set the trap, based upon the fact that the "Mark's" pride would not let him back down from his self-aggrandizement! Then, they'd fleece him! The "Mark" would never complain. Because he would loose face with his peer group.
I am looking forward to the next town hall styled debate! Mittens will surely display that red triangle around his nose when he is caught up in his own hubris! What a sight to see!
Poor Ryan! Biden does not suffer from Obama's modesty! The Delaware Dog Biter will bring the spiked collar!

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:40 PM

90. i hope that's right. i felt that

obama could not be seen to get defensive as that would play into the repubs hands. you know how the rw base comes to the defense of their anointed one, no matter how they really feel about him . . . and, imo, the right HATES rmoney.

i think o did better than anyone gave him credit for. and big bird helped a ton!

ellen fl

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Response to sofa king (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:43 PM

91. The President needs to call Mitt out on his dishonesty, and he needs to do it in the debate.

When Mitt Romney claimed his healthcare plan covered pre-existing conditions, President Obama should have looked right into the eyes of that liar and said Mitt, 'you owe the American people the truth' and you're not giving it to them, just like he did yesterday in his stump speech, and today in Wisconsin.

The problem is that those 60 million debate viewers weren't watching his stump speech.

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