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Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:40 AM

So if Obama had acted like Romney last night..


He would have been labelled 'angry black' , instead there is the double standard applied to Romney telling his BS lies

43 replies, 4784 views

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Reply So if Obama had acted like Romney last night.. (Original post)
HipChick Oct 2012 OP
skeewee08 Oct 2012 #1
Rose Siding Oct 2012 #26
Iliyah Oct 2012 #30
Whovian Oct 2012 #2
cilla4progress Oct 2012 #3
flamingdem Oct 2012 #7
Whovian Oct 2012 #8
ellisonz Oct 2012 #42
treestar Oct 2012 #24
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #4
HipChick Oct 2012 #5
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #14
whathehell Oct 2012 #19
ellisonz Oct 2012 #43
flamingdem Oct 2012 #6
K Gardner Oct 2012 #9
whathehell Oct 2012 #25
K Gardner Oct 2012 #38
whathehell Oct 2012 #41
Iliyah Oct 2012 #32
MineralMan Oct 2012 #10
Doctor_J Oct 2012 #21
zeemike Oct 2012 #28
leveymg Oct 2012 #11
gollygee Oct 2012 #12
oswaldactedalone Oct 2012 #13
laundry_queen Oct 2012 #15
arthritisR_US Oct 2012 #16
HipChick Oct 2012 #23
Robb Oct 2012 #17
Indpndnt Oct 2012 #22
karynnj Oct 2012 #18
Doctor_J Oct 2012 #20
RiverStone Oct 2012 #27
truebrit71 Oct 2012 #29
MoonRiver Oct 2012 #31
ljm2002 Oct 2012 #33
tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #34
Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #36
Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #35
newspeak Oct 2012 #37
Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #40
landolfi Oct 2012 #39

Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:43 AM

1. Yep, I've been saying it all morning

then they would of showed the Rev Wright video again then you would have President O scaring the white women....

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Response to skeewee08 (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:25 AM

26. I think that's exactly why he pulled his punches

Romney telegraphed for a week that he'd be calling O a liar. I think O's campaign calculated the risks and made a strategic decision.

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Response to skeewee08 (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:26 PM

30. skeewee08, thats why the right wingers brought

out that 2007 video. The right wingers were trying to set O up but instead O trapped Mittens. . . .chess compared to checkers!

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:45 AM

2. Obama acted Presidential. Romney is looking like a con-man as fact checkers keep posting results.

 

As mentioned in other threads Romney's rudeness may have made him look initially good but as more and more news comes out about all the lies and misdirects that came out of his mouth this debate is going to hurt him among the "undecideds" than it will help him.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:49 AM

3. Did you notice

how Obama kept looking to Lehrer to refereee, enforce the rules?

Romney never paid any respect to the debate rules or the moderator. That's the way he lives his life and conducts his business. Some Americans - those who supported W, for example, will respond positively.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:53 AM

7. Yes, I saw that. Obama expects fairness, but repukes disrespect

everything to do with our process, as well as 47% of us

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:55 AM

8. I did. Romney's lies, agression and ignoring the rules disconcerted Lehrer I feel.

 

I also feel that the lies may have thrown Obama off as well as Obama went in with the idea of being a gentleman. I doubt that will happen again.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:12 PM

42. Jim Lehrer being an honorable, patriotic American who has seen much in his life!

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:24 AM

24. They would be supporting Rmoney already

Trying to appeal to the middle - I don't think DU really knows how that is done. Similar advice in 2008 led to nothing as Obama won.

As to the Gish Gallop - imagine Obama saying, "look, you've thrown so many lies out there, I can't respond to them all so I will go on to state my position." I can't imagine Obama saying it or his advisors advising it. They know what they are trying to do. Neither side is going to have big conversions made at this point, and anyone who genuinely is on the fence is going to consider more than just one debate. The population that would think Rmoney "won" here and should be voted for is a population either so small and to be unlikely to be properly registered or a population made up of Tea Partiers. There's no reason to panic and little reason to think Obama would gain votes by saying something just as mild as I quoted above.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:50 AM

4. No he could have been aggressive, and looked Presidential.

Obama was off his game. He needs to say that, and say that he won't let it happen again.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:51 AM

5. Being aggressive gets labelled "Angry Black Man'


He can't win for losing..

If I act aggressive at work, I get labelled a bitch...the males on the job get a pat on the back...double standards at play

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Response to HipChick (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:05 AM

14. Ok I see where you are coming from, however if the president does the same thing...

... in the next 2 debates he looses. He needs to do better.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:17 AM

19. I agree. This "fear of the angry black man" meme is played out, IMO.

He's been in office for nearly four years...He's known as "No Drama Obama".

At this point, he can certainly afford to take off the gloves with Romney and

assert himself with energy. He does it on the campaign trail and

nobody but desperate rightwingers even attempt to label him that way.

Enough already.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:13 PM

43. You think the President should concede such a point?

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:52 AM

6. Humans can be so primitive, the aggessive body language gets to the crotch chakra

so Rmoney mesmerizes the brainless with his macho and "looks" presidential.

We should have higher capacity for thought than that. It remains true that Obama has to keep his cool
because he's black. That is the country we live in currently.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:55 AM

9. THANK YOU ! Good grief, Romney bullied a senior citizen (Lehrer), raised his voice, lied,

blatantly disrespected his opponent...etc etc

This is what I HATE about "visuals" and instant polling/analysis. It takes a few days for everything to settle in with most people.

Could Obama have done better? Yeah, probably. But at the expense of mimicking the schoolyard, entitled bully?

Nah.

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:24 AM

25. He doesn't have to "mimic" anyone...He could simply be his CONFIDENT and assertive self.

One SMALL, but important change he could make, would be KEEP his head up

and simply LOOK Romney in the eye, as Romney did him.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:25 PM

38. I absolutely agree with you there ! n/t

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #38)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:10 PM

41. Thanks. n/t

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:30 PM

32. K Gardner - and Mittens basically fired Lehrer and will

kill BIG BIRD!

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:56 AM

10. True. But, today, we're only hearing

the negative reactions. Obama was Obama last night. Romney was the one who was uncharacteristic. It's going to take time to see what the people think who actually watched the debates and are trying to decide how to vote. I'm not able to predict their reactions.

Almost every reaction this morning is an over-reaction.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:19 AM

21. Ouch

Obama was Obama last night


Timid, confused, backpedaling. Hopefully that's not who he is.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:25 PM

28. Funny but I did not see that at all.

But then I don't buy into the notion that if you are not attacking then you are timid and confused....and the backpedaling is hard for me to see....Where did he do that?

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:58 AM

11. Romney only proved that he's still alive and angry last night. Truth isn't necessary to that.

Very low goal posts.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:58 AM

12. I do think he was in a no-win situation

He could have tried to lie as much as Romney did but that isn't how he works.

If he called Romney out on every lie and had stood up to him as much as I would have liked, he would have played into their race-baiting hands.

At the very least, I wish the debate had been better moderated.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:03 AM

13. Obama missed plenty of opportunities

to zing Romney in ways that would've been seen as humorous. Big mistake by him, Plouffe, and Axelrod to purposely avoid one liners, any mention of the 47%, and firm comebacks. We already know Obama is intelligent and Presidential. What we don't know is if he'll stand up for progressives. That's where he blew it last night.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:06 AM

15. Yes, because the ONLY 2 choices are to be ineffective and weak

or look like a bully/liar who has had to much caffeine.

The third choice would have been to calmly point out the lies. Or at least say, "So, Mr. Romney, are you saying you've changed your mind about your own plan again?" He would have only had to point out one or 2 lies. The President's 'zinger' was a little too nuanced for most of the undecideds, who, let's face it, must be incredibly dense to start with if they are still undecided. Plain language, calmly pointing out the lies and maybe saying, after the zillionth time Romney pointed out the 90 billion for Green energy, "That 90 billion created XX amount of jobs here in America. Are you suggesting those people shouldn't have jobs?" Or whatever. Play their game, calmly twist their own words. Not hard when you have lived among them (grew up with that type, lol, it's like second nature to me).

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:07 AM

16. That's exactly what my daughter and I were

saying post debate. It is the same uphill battle Elizabeth Warren faces, white men's double standard.

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Response to arthritisR_US (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:22 AM

23. White man's double standards...that's the correct call

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:10 AM

17. Or mean. Or condescending. Or "professorial."

I mean seriously. Remember how great the talking heads said W* was?

Here's what I said Tuesday morning:

Remember Will, we all watched * make an ass of himself in the debates....and the media fawned all over how well he did under the harsh onslaught of the brilliant opposition.

rMoney can fuck a live donkey at the podium, and half the media will call him a steeplechase champion.

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Response to Robb (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:21 AM

22. Yes, indeed.

Very true. It's the facts that come out post-debate that matter. The commercials should be spectacular.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:14 AM

18. No - a dishonest angry black. Their echo chamber would already have

pointed out all the lies and why they are lies.

Compare this to Kerry vs Bush. They conceded quickly that He won the debate, but not that that mattered in the race. However, this debate was NOWHERE near as one sided. Obama was strong on defense of his programs and was likable and articulate throughout - and even his strongest supporters found it hard to say that of Bush. Add in that fact checkers found very little to get Kerry on and the "gotyas" were all labelling as part true things that were 100% true as stated but ignored things that could be said.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:18 AM

20. Another "limited choice" argument from the deniers

No one wanted him to attack. Letting a torrent of lies go unchallenged, looking at the floor while being lectured, and using "ahh" and "umm" continually is a losing formula, and can be fixed without turning into an Angry Black Man (c)

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:29 AM

27. No, he would have "won" on the entertainment value

Sorry HipChick, but you (and most of DU) is way smarter than many in the electorate. It's not only about intelligent answers, but who got the must punches in.

On style, Obama looked like a wimp last night. Sure, Obama is light years ahead in smarts --- but he needs to come out fighting in 2 weeks because the stupid want to see some action. And their vote counts as much as yours.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:25 PM

29. BINGO!!!!

We have a WINNER!!!!

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:27 PM

31. He didn't need to act angry.

He just needed to point out Romney's lies and contradictions.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:34 PM

33. You don't have to be rude...

...to make sharp debate points.

No one wants Obama to act "like Romney". Some of us, however, wish he would have been ready with counters to Romney's points (many of which were blatant lies).

For whatever reasons, Obama appeared to be off his game a bit, and that gave Romney the opportunity to prevail with his attack-dog strategy. It worked well for Romney last night, dammit. Obama was too soft in defense of his own positions, he was unable to land any body blows (rhetorically speaking), he did not manage to bring up any of the really damaging things that Romney has said such as his 47% remarks, basically he did not show any fighting instinct.

I think that "angry black man" issue is easy to hide behind. But no one wants their President to be a wimp, and that's how Obama came off last night IMO, at least to some extent. Instead of looking Presidential he came off as Professorial. He needed to be a lot more forceful. And reading the headlines today, it is very clear who won the debates.

Romney needed to do well to keep his campaign alive, and he succeeded at that. Too bad Obama did not find a way to deliver the knockout blow.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:59 PM

34. Why can Obama be the "angry black man," but no one is calling Romney what he is: "angry white man"?

I don't understand this belief it all. Why should Obama have to act docile and Romney is allowed to talk incessantly, cut off the moderator and the President throughout the entire debate, and spread lies? If Obama did the same thing and was called out for doing the same thing as Romney, those people are either racist, biased, or stupid.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:13 PM

36. "those people are either racist, biased, or stupid."

Nope. All three.

Plus they're angry.

They're angry that they lost in 2008 and have NEVER accepted Obama as the President.

On DAY ONE they claimed it wasn't "official" when Roberts flubbed the Oath of Office and it went downhill from there.

WHEN Obama wins a second term, IF the Republicans still control the House they want to see Obama Impeached.

They don't CARE if there is no actual reason for it. Just do it. Make something up.

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:05 PM

35. You hit the nail on the head there. Especially with the video the Right has been looping again....

Romney's mouth has been Obama's greatest weapon. Obama went in acting like the guy who deals with world leaders while Romney went in on full attack mode while abandoning his stump speech and all that talk about "working with Democrats" had his base screaming, "Traitor!".

The claim that Obama has been unwilling to work with Republicans is right out of the bubble.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:22 PM

37. well, i really do have a problem with blowhard bullies

but, the wacko right loves their over the top, talking over people, yelling, lying bullies. I don't know, maybe Obama should have made a comment to old mittens about respecting the rules of the debate and leherer. I bet that would have helped put mittens in his place. Because it comes down to respect. When mittens was spewing fabrications and acting like the jaunty bully, all I could think of was mittens in his early days ridiculing handicapped people and physically abusing those who didn't LOOK or ACT LIKE HIM!

This debate doesn't change the minds of any of my family. Of course, we know what dangerous ideas ryan and mittens have been spouting before this mitten's fantasy debate.

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Response to newspeak (Reply #37)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:50 PM

40. No way should Obama have pointed out the rules. Why offer advice to help your opponent?

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Response to HipChick (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:34 PM

39. Some will consider this heresy, but hear me out

Let's look at it from the Obama campaign's perspective:

1. Rmoney has proven himself such a buffoon that short of barfing all over the podium, he would be declared winner no matter what O did (just as Palin got all kinds of accolades for winking and not barfing all over the podium).

2. The best attack on Romney is Romney.

3. We still have a month to go. A few more R$ flubs in the interim and people will forget how he did in the first debate.

4. The debates have questionable impact. Statistically, they have rarely changed anything.

5. As others have pointed out, if O goes on offense, he descends to Mittens' level. Also, if O did descend to that level, see #1.

6. Therefore, it's not worth risking anything. The objective is to do no harm. He can't win it. See #1. So why risk alienating people, especially see #2.

So let's see what actually happened.

1: Check. Romney did not barf. I'm very disappointed. Couldn't he have insulted another group?

2: Rmoney told a lot of fibs that are going to follow him around. And he disowned his tax plan, which was vague before but now it doesn't exist. Oh, and he said he was going to replace Obamacare with an identical plan! Good luck with those. I bet a few faces were palmed backstage over those. R$ also looked angry and out of sorts, you know, the shoot first aim later guy. Did he look likable to you? Are you convinced now he wants to be president of the 100%? How could anybody be? Also, notice that O was respectful to Lehrer and tried to follow the format, where Rmoney acted like the rules don't apply to him, as of course they don't.

3,4: If this does have some impact on the polls, there are 2 more debates and the VP debate. I predict Biden will chew Lyin Ryan up and spit him out. No need to play prevent there.

6: Rmoney wasn't really able to address his weaknesses. He wasn't likable and he gave no details. In fact, he abandoned parts of his platform and from today on gets to explain the message he further muddled last night.

Now it may be just me, but I was shocked at the MSNBC reaction last night (except Sharpton called the "rope-a-dope" and the lies that are going to dog R$). I must have been watching a different debate. The President looked generally calm and was himself and I think deliberately refused to look at Romney as a sign of disrespect. He clearly made the point that R$ has no specifics, and even got him to back away from his tax plan. Although Romney may have "won", he's stepped in it again.

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