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Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:40 PM

What we saw tonight was Mitt Romney's Gish Gallop.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

The Gish Gallop, named after creationist Duane Gish, is the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott of the National Center for Science Education.

The formal debating jargon term for this is spreading. You can hear some mindboggling examples here. It arose as a way to throw as much rubbish into five minutes as possible. In response, some debate judges now limit number of arguments as well as time. However, in places where debating judges aren't there to call bullshit on the practice, like the internet, such techniques are remarkably common.


Essentially, rMoney took a large snort of cocaine, walked up on the stage, and spewed a enormously aggressive stream of bullshit, knowing that Obama would only get mired down and appear defensive if he tried point-by-point rebuttals. And Jim Lehrer was entirely unhelpful in that he let rMoney continue the Gish Gallop and wouldn't put his foot down enforcing time limits.

Obama did keep his cool - I think he knew better than to try rebutting the Gish Gallop - the place to tear rMoney to pieces is after the debate, with his surrogates tearing rMoney to pieces, with lots and lots of attack ads showing rMoney flip-flopping his positions, and demanding he show how his actual math works for his budget proposals.

I hope Obama's rapid-response team is already working on a shitload of attack ads!

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Reply What we saw tonight was Mitt Romney's Gish Gallop. (Original post)
backscatter712 Oct 2012 OP
grasswire Oct 2012 #1
SoCalDem Oct 2012 #3
BarackTheVote Oct 2012 #9
NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #2
DarleenMB Oct 2012 #4
Avalux Oct 2012 #5
Kalidurga Oct 2012 #6
backscatter712 Oct 2012 #7
ProSense Oct 2012 #8
BarackTheVote Oct 2012 #10
backscatter712 Oct 2012 #11
elzenmahn Oct 2012 #12
KittyWampus Oct 2012 #13

Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:42 PM

1. EXCELLENT

I'm not unhappy with Obama tonight.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:46 PM

3. I also suspect that there is an October-surprise awaiting Mittens too..

the Bain stuff unloaded in June-July hurt him
the tax stuff hurt him all summer-long

then the dismal convention in early september walloped him
followed by the 47% thing.

There is more, I suspect..

at least I hope so..

The perfect time would be next week to take away the "rush" he's feeling about now..

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:03 AM

9. I think Larry Flynt has the october surprise up his sleeve n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:42 PM

2. Truth.

The concern tonight at DU is remarkable and sad.

K/R this post.

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:56 PM

4. Didn't know there was a term for it

but I got quite peeved with Lerher ... he's done this in every debate he's moderated and it needs to STOP.

President Obama did look to me to be annoyed on several points but he kept his cool.

Other than that I thought the Pres did a good job. Not great, but not as dismal as the pundits would have us all believe.

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:00 AM

5. Best post I've seen all night!

Didn't know there was a term for what Romney was doing, and now that I do, confirms my thinking that Obama's demeanor and responses were entirely appropriate and smart. He would have looked a fool trying to attack Romney.

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:09 AM

6. So that is what that is called. Well he has had many years to practice and it shows.

I couldn't keep track of all the lies, nor did I care to. Romney is just a constant lying machine. But, the one on cuts to medicare that was huge and Romney acknowledged the truth for a split second and then went back to lie about it again several times in fact, it was bizarre. So, in essence Romney said he was in favor of tax payers over paying insurance companies and hospitals and that he would bring that back if elected. Then there was the lie about his tax plan not raising taxes on the middle class, BS. And then there is the lowering tax rates but closing loop holes, bs especially when many of those loop holes aren't really loop holes like mortgage deductions, child care expenses, expenses associated with care giving, etc... many of those loop holes are what keeps families afloat financially and wouldn't apply to small businesses and Romney knows this but lies anyway. Romney looked like a total tool and a constipated one at that.

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:56 AM

7. I'd say my critique is that Obama needs to work on pivoting, reframing, and storytelling. n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:01 AM

8. Mitt gave the Obama campaign

four ads for each day until the election.

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:09 AM

10. But because he tried to burst off so many arguments

he came off as manic and scattered in his presentation. And I really don't think that break-neck pace he was going at is going to play well for positive sound-bites. If I were the editor faced with those clips, I would be PISSED.

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Response to BarackTheVote (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:18 AM

11. Yep. Push hard on the fact-checking, and do freeze-frames of his facial expressions.

I think he came across as a real prick - take those freeze-frames, photoshop them into black-and-white, throw them into attack ads!

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:56 AM

12. They already have...

...and let MittWitt have his delusion of victory now, while the fact checkers are having a field day unspinning his web 'o' fibs.

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Response to backscatter712 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:57 AM

13. Excellent so glad this was already posted.

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