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Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:50 AM

Do you really think SoS Clinton could win in 2016?

Most of us automatically assume she's a shoo-in, but then when you start to analyze what went wrong in 2008, I think what doomed her the most was her failure to adjust to the youtube era.

That being said, she can win handily if she stays true to herself 100% of the time. Her accomplishments are extremely impressive and there's no need to embellish or try to sound like a war hawk to compete with male candidates.

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Reply Do you really think SoS Clinton could win in 2016? (Original post)
apples and oranges Sep 2012 OP
no_hypocrisy Sep 2012 #1
DURHAM D Sep 2012 #2
FSogol Sep 2012 #35
Xipe Totec Sep 2012 #102
liberalmuse Sep 2012 #3
TheCowsCameHome Sep 2012 #4
still_one Sep 2012 #5
joeybee12 Sep 2012 #86
tarheelsunc Sep 2012 #93
riverbendviewgal Sep 2012 #6
Blue_Tires Sep 2012 #9
sdfernando Sep 2012 #30
OhioChick Sep 2012 #48
LovePeacock Sep 2012 #7
WCGreen Sep 2012 #8
LovePeacock Sep 2012 #12
Jackpine Radical Sep 2012 #10
LovePeacock Sep 2012 #13
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #62
Bucky Sep 2012 #100
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #109
bluestate10 Sep 2012 #63
okieinpain Sep 2012 #49
Jackpine Radical Sep 2012 #50
get the red out Sep 2012 #11
dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #14
LovePeacock Sep 2012 #16
dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #19
Jersey Devil Sep 2012 #15
LynneSin Sep 2012 #17
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #60
bluestate10 Sep 2012 #67
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #68
tarheelsunc Sep 2012 #83
Adenoid_Hynkel Sep 2012 #82
limpyhobbler Sep 2012 #98
peace13 Sep 2012 #18
MineralMan Sep 2012 #20
antigop Sep 2012 #21
antigop Sep 2012 #22
JDPriestly Sep 2012 #80
HooptieWagon Sep 2012 #23
antigop Sep 2012 #28
antigop Sep 2012 #38
randome Sep 2012 #24
nanabugg Sep 2012 #25
NV Whino Sep 2012 #26
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #31
randome Sep 2012 #34
Beacool Sep 2012 #53
lunamagica Sep 2012 #112
NV Whino Sep 2012 #75
Laurajr Sep 2012 #27
gopiscrap Sep 2012 #29
mnhtnbb Sep 2012 #32
tarheelsunc Sep 2012 #84
Pyrzqxgl Sep 2012 #33
Beacool Sep 2012 #55
Bandit Sep 2012 #36
apples and oranges Sep 2012 #73
spirit-soul Sep 2012 #37
Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #41
spirit-soul Sep 2012 #43
Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #46
M_M Sep 2012 #39
Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #40
Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2012 #42
closeupready Sep 2012 #47
Arugula Latte Sep 2012 #44
closeupready Sep 2012 #45
Bucky Sep 2012 #96
leveymg Sep 2012 #51
bluestate10 Sep 2012 #69
leveymg Sep 2012 #87
littlemissmartypants Sep 2012 #52
Whisp Sep 2012 #54
JDPriestly Sep 2012 #79
tarheelsunc Sep 2012 #85
JDPriestly Sep 2012 #88
tarheelsunc Sep 2012 #91
Beacool Sep 2012 #56
Proud Public Servant Sep 2012 #57
Beacool Sep 2012 #74
Proud Public Servant Sep 2012 #114
bluestate10 Sep 2012 #58
sammytko Sep 2012 #59
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #61
quinnox Sep 2012 #64
quinnox Sep 2012 #65
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #70
apples and oranges Sep 2012 #72
tokenlib Sep 2012 #66
rock Sep 2012 #71
Adenoid_Hynkel Sep 2012 #76
antigop Sep 2012 #105
Enrique Sep 2012 #77
samsingh Sep 2012 #78
JDPriestly Sep 2012 #81
limpyhobbler Sep 2012 #101
JDPriestly Sep 2012 #113
bigwillq Sep 2012 #89
MadHound Sep 2012 #90
cherokeeprogressive Sep 2012 #92
antigop Sep 2012 #106
quaker bill Sep 2012 #94
Bucky Sep 2012 #95
madokie Sep 2012 #97
limpyhobbler Sep 2012 #99
DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #103
antigop Sep 2012 #107
Beacool Sep 2012 #117
frylock Sep 2012 #104
Arctic Dave Sep 2012 #108
TheKentuckian Sep 2012 #110
DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #115
Beacool Sep 2012 #116
lunamagica Sep 2012 #111


Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:52 AM

2. Who cares?

This is 2012.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:38 PM

35. Exactly, let's win this election first.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:10 PM

102. Well said.

Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus, Focus...

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:52 AM

3. Yes.

No doubt about it.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:54 AM

4. I hope so.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:55 AM

5. Yes. and she would be a shoo-in if Obama wins and the economy makes a complete or almost complete

recovery


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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:01 PM

86. Just like Bill Clinton did and then Gore won?

Oh, wait...

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #86)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:54 PM

93. In that case, it depends on if the 2016 Republican candidate's brother is a state governor

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:56 AM

6. Let's get through this election

and see how Hilary feels....She may feel it is enough and wants to do more with Bill for charity.

I like her and feel confident she would do a good job...BUT...you never know what health issues may arise.

My son and husband were NEVER sick and got cancer two months apart of each other and were they were dead in 18 months and 36 months from their diagnosis...Dead at 26 and 54...


Live for the NOW....and NOW is Obama's election.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:01 AM

9. +1

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:04 PM

30. OMG

So so sorry for the loss of your husband and son.

But you are correct....live in the now...the future is a dream and the past cannot be changed. The only thing you have total control of is this moment, right now.

edit for typo

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:44 PM

48. I'm sorry to hear this

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:57 AM

7. Yes, and she will. She's taking the next four years to start her campaign n/t

 

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:00 AM

8. Unless the GOP re-brands itself between now and then....

It's only gonna get worse from here on out for the anti-government, take two tax cuts and call me in the morning solution for what ever ailes the country white guys.

The demographics are swinging so hard to the left that I can't see them being a national party for too much longer.

Now there will probably be a GOP party in the future but it can't keep relying on a coalition of white and whiter and expect to be viable.

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:08 AM

12. Guranteed they'll work with President Obama a little bit this next cycle.

 

They've seen the endpoint to their post-Southern Strategy election map. People are tired of tax cuts and deregulation; although, these will remain important points for the GOP moving forward, just as the "big guvment" idea will stick around. For whatever reasons, these terrible ideas and notions resonate with enough people that republicans can get away with pushing them still.

They'll get back to the center; unfortunately, they're biggest voting bloc still remains racist whites. They're limited in the demographics they can go after when they have to appease the racists. Besides, the best candidate the GOP has is Jeb Bush, and we're not even allowed to talk about GWB. The Bush name is ruined for at least a little while. I can't see Jeb riding Georgie Boy's coattails into office, and I can't see the republican party changing enough in the next four years to make much of a difference.

The GOP is gonna need a new generation before they can totally rebrand; not just four years. There's young conservatives out there who don't hate all minorities, but for the time being hating minorities is still an important republican characteristic.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:06 AM

10. My immediate thought is "Gee, I hope not."

I think Hill is a fine, competent SoS, but she runs 'way too conservative on domestic issues for my taste.

I would really like to see an actual liberal in the WH for once. Maybe for the first time since FDR.

The changes America will need to make in the next decade are so profound that we will need leadership of a visionary quality.

I acknowledge that this could change, but I just don't see Hillary as leading the nation onto the paths we will need to take for survival in a world ridden by industrial pollution, overpopulation, climate change, and the resulting degradation of the biosphere.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:09 AM

13. Ain't gonna happen. The United States hates liberalism.

 

Conservatives have pounded that into their heads for thirty-plus years now.

We're a conservative country, which is why we're turning to shit.

Hill is better than most viable candidates, and gives the democratic party the best change to win in 2016.

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Response to LovePeacock (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:07 PM

62. Wrong, all polls taken on issues show that America IS Liberal.

This propaganda is defeating, and meant to be. I would not want another status quo politician running in 2016. This country needs to get away from the same old people running the country now for decades.

I would not support Hillary or any other member of any other family who have been in power for so long.

When she responded to a question on torture in the last campaign and basically said she would use it if 'needed', she lost me forever. I don't support people who abandon human rights for power.

I hope in this huge country there are more than just the small pool of candidates who keep getting recycled year after year after year, and then we wonder why things really never change.

I can think of many Democrats I would rather see run in 2016. Russ Feingold eg would make a great candidate.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #62)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:08 PM

100. On the issues, yes. But who the hell votes on the issues?

90+% of Americans vote based on tribal labels. For all his fuck ups and clear ineptitude, 46% of voters still intend to vote for Romney. Obama could break into the Washington Zoo over night and kill a baby panda and still get 46% of the vote. 46 is the new 40.

We may be comfortably liberal, by a narrow margin, when all sorts of issues are discussed, but we don't like the label of "liberal" as expertly countermarketed by the right wing sound machine. I don't see how even a Don Draper-level genius rebranding campaign by the Dems, if we were capable of such a thing, could turn those perceptions around by 2016. It's better to run as a moderate and just accomplish the occasional liberal reform than to go down in Dukakaflames trying to logic the public through a reevaluation of the word liberal.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #100)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:23 PM

109. Maybe Dems should change their label to 'Independent' and run on the issues people

actually care about. To continue with this never-changing system of repeating over and over again what clearly has not worked for a majority of ordinary people, is ridiculous. Republicans have had no problem imposing their disastrous policies on this and on other countries.

Dems are too fearful, too timid, too afraid to challenge them and so we repeat the same dysfunctional cycle year after year, each year moving the country more to the right.

Has anyone even tried to come out swinging for the issues that people show, over and over again, in poll after poll, that they care about?

These arguments make no sense to me. Run on issues that people care about and you win.

I think this now growing so old 'pragmatism' argument is killing this country. It has turned Dems, although NOT Repubs, into a party that is always compromising, always moving a step further to the right just so 'we can all get along'.

I don't want to get along with Republicans. They have no good ideas and the American public agrees by a huge majority when they are asked about those ideas.

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Response to LovePeacock (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:09 PM

63. America doesn't hate liberals.

The beauty of FDR was that FDR made programs work, and those programs had sunset dates. Americans are tuning away from conservatives because conservatives have shoved policies down the throat of the nation, policies that don't work and actually do more harm than good.

The person that I would really like to see run is Deval Patrick. Patrick is the Governor of my state. Patrick is a moderate-progressive who has conviction and who works his ass off to make public policy produce the intended results.

An FDR like liberal would not only win, that person will get re-elected and end up being lionized in history. So bring on that person, he or she has my support and vote.

A liberal that wants programs, but don't want effectiveness checks on those programs and mechanisms for correcting wayward programs will never stand a chance of winning. A liberal that views the military as evil and not as a bloated necessity that can be made better through skilled surgery will never win. A liberal that doesn't recognize and accept that we, as a nation, must on occasion take unrelenting, aggressive action against those that have either killed some of us or threaten to kill some of us, will never win.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:49 PM

49. a real liberal will never make it. president obama has

set the standard for future dem candidates.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #49)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:01 PM

50. I absolutely disagree.

We're within a decade of hitting the wall with respect to the economy (expect a new wave of international bank collapses within a few years), the environment (famines, floods, fires, disease, etc.) energy (Yes, Virginia, there will be Peak Oil), etc., and things will get very ugly for a lot of people. That's when things get interesting on the political scene.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:07 AM

11. Yep

I think she would have an excellent chance.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:14 AM

14. Put it this way

Does that assume Obama wins or loses now ? Or to put it another way when did the Democratic Party have a President in place 12 years running?

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:19 AM

16. FDR n/t

 

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Response to LovePeacock (Reply #16)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:26 AM

19. Thanks

I asked because I really didn't know. I'd searched but obviously missed that.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:18 AM

15. 2016 is a million years away in political time

Anything could happen. Maybe Hillary will want to take it easy by then. Goodness knows she has more than enough on her resume to feel a sense of satisfaction with a well spent career. On the other hand, if she wants the nomination who is to say that someone else might not come along and beat her out for it - again. After all, who ever heard of Barack Obama in 2004?

I think Hill would be deserving of the nomination but I also hope the Democratic Party can keep cranking out quality candidates to compete with those already in the running.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:24 AM

17. At this point who else do we have?

Biden would be perfect if he was 10 years younger. If he were to run in 2016 he would actually be a few years older than McCain's age when he ran in 2004 and Reagan when he reran for pres in 1984. Plus Joe has always had health issues including a Brain Aneurysm a few years back. I adore Joe Biden but his time is done after 2016. I think the Biden we see as president will be his son Beau but probably not for another 16-20 years.

I adore Julian Castro and I have got to think the hispanics of this country would love to see one of their own make the White House. Issue I have with Castro is this - he has only won a mayor position even though San Antonio is the 7th largest city AND is larger in population than several US States. But I think he needs at least some expanded support whether governor, US Rep or Senator. But in Texas that is a tall order. But....I think if someone like HRC would pick Castro as VP that would be an amazing ticket almost unbeatable - First Woman President and first 100% Hispanic Vice President (I think there have been a few who have hispanic heritage but not full-blooded). Could be a winner.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:59 PM

60. O'Malley probably

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #60)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:14 PM

67. O'Malley fell on his face at the DNC.

My choice would be Deval Patrick because I live in a state that he has led through difficult times for six years. I don't know whether Patrick wants the Presidency, his wife doesn't care much for public life and First Lady is the second most public position in the country.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #67)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:16 PM

68. early days

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #67)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:56 PM

83. O'Malley's speech was pretty bad

I think he had a great opportunity to become a leader within the party but he ruined it. Deval Patrick has impressed me, both in the way he has fixed a lot of Rmoney's failures in Massachusetts and also in the way he speaks.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:52 PM

82. How about Sherrod Brown?

just tossing it out there - from a critical swing state, very likable and down-to-earth, liberal - but with solid blue collar appeal, and has an almost Bill Clinton-esque gift for making difficult issues easily explained.

He'd be great as first or second on a ticket. I think he'd be ideal as Hillary' running mate to balance out any concerns the left has over her DLC-ness.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Reply #82)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:06 PM

98. We should be so lucky. nt

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:24 AM

18. No.

She has done a great job as SOS but I hope she does not run in 2016.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:27 AM

20. Ah, 2016 is a while off, so most of us aren't really thinking about that

right now. We'll address that question in a couple of years. Right now, there's an election in a month and a half. Hillary's not running in 2012.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:17 AM

21. she would lose the Dem nomination in 2016 for the same reasons she lost in 2008. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:27 AM

22. and two of the reasons were the constant cheerleading and sense of entitlement

Not to mention her anti-American worker statements on outsourcing.

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Response to antigop (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:43 PM

80. This election, China is an issue.

If Hillary ran, the visas for the Indian technicians and the outsourcing to India would be huge issues.

No. Not Hillary.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:30 AM

23. Yes, she could win the nomination and be a strong candidate in '16.

What tripped her up in '08 was her presumption that the nomination was hers. She and her staff did a poor job of realizing how good a candidate Obama was, and were unprepared for a drawn out battle. Then their response had all the appearence of petty mud-slinging, which did not look presidential. And her campaign staff were completely awful.I doubt she'd make those mistakes a second time around.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:45 AM

28. what also lost her the nomination were her anti-US worker comments on outsourcing. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:32 PM

38. but what would you expect from the DLC, Third Way,......nt

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:35 AM

24. I really can't believe this question keeps coming up.

We do not need politicians of the past to return. This is a new era and we need fresh, young faces out there.

Look to the future, not the past. No more failed nominees. Hillary lost her chance in 2008. It isn't fair but it's reality.

Let's move on.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:36 AM

25. Yes, and big "YES" if Obama wins 2012. nt

 

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:38 AM

26. No

1. She doesn't want to run.
2. The Democrats have a lot of fresh faces who would be better choices.
3. By 2016 those fresh faces will have a lot more experience and be ready.

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Response to NV Whino (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:11 PM

31. I don't think you can say she doesn't want to

when her own husband has said this just a few days ago:

Bill Clinton, in an interview with Face The Nation, talked up her achievements and said she would be well placed.

"I've never met anybody I thought was any better than her at this. But again, we got a lot of able people in our party who want to be president," he said.
Asked directly if she would stand, he opted against ruling it out and said: "I don't know."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/23/bill-clinton-hillary-presidential-2016?newsfeed=true


If she was definite about not running, she'd have told him, and he wouldn't say something like that.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:37 PM

34. How much of a relationship do they really have?

How often have they been seen together? My impression is that their marriage has become one of consistency, not love.

I could be wrong but I don't think either of them cares that much about the other. Their marriage ended some time ago.

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Response to randome (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:12 PM

53. That's how little you know about the Clintons.

Not that the state of their marriage is anyone's business, but Hillary comes home to NY every weekend that both she and Bill are in the States. She loves Chappaqua and the couple is often seen around town walking their dogs (Hillary has a poodle named Tally). They frequent the shops and restaurants. They also spend time with Chelsea and Marc.

Anyone who knows them well can tell you that, although they have a complicated marriage, there's love and mutual admiration. Bill always speaks of Hillary with pride and Hillary lights up when she speaks of Bill.

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Response to randome (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:51 PM

112. Oh. please, I'm sure they talk

even if their marriage was one of consistency, not love, they must talk

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:01 PM

75. She has said on the past that she wasn't interested

And Bill, as you just post, said he didn't know.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:38 AM

27. Yes

YES She Can!

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:04 PM

29. Possible but 2016 is a LONG! ways off

a lot can happen til then....

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:15 PM

32. I really doubt that she's going to take on running for POTUS at age 68.

And no, that's not a sexist comment. I think she's a brilliant
woman...would have made a terrific POTUS...but I just don't think
the timing was right for her.

I'm 61 and I can't imagine keeping the schedule she does now as SoS.
I just don't think she will run.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:58 PM

84. Stench is 65, 68 for a woman is younger than 65 for a man

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:35 PM

33. I think Michelle could beat her in the primaries.

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Response to Pyrzqxgl (Reply #33)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:15 PM

55. Michelle will not be running in 2016.

If she is indeed interested in political office, then she needs to run for something before running for president.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:09 PM

36. And have Michelle Obama as her VP

What a ticket... and Barok as Sec of State

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Response to Bandit (Reply #36)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:06 PM

73. That would be an amazing ticket

Really farfetched though.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)


Response to spirit-soul (Reply #37)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:36 PM

41. Of course...

Step away from the sharp objects.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:40 PM

43. ??? But your head isn't anywhere near me!

 

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Response to spirit-soul (Reply #43)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:42 PM

46. Give it a minute

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:33 PM

39. Yes

 

Next!

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:36 PM

40. Why not?

Four years before winning in 2008, Barack Obama was a State Representative from Illinois. Before his 2004 convention speech, who had ever heard of him outside of Illinois?

Sure she can win.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:38 PM

42. She is a war hawk. Remember her vote on the IWR and support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Not to mention that she's a DLC/3rd Way Centrist.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:42 PM

47. Her IWR vote definitely mars her otherwise good record.

And I don't think she ever took back her support for that.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:40 PM

44. No. I really hope she doesn't run.

I think she's too toxic and whips up too much enthusiasm on the other side -- to defeat her. I'd much rather have Elizabeth Warren run.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:41 PM

45. Not falling for this again, as with Gore. She said she's not running.

I will take her word for it.

If she DID run, I think she WOULD win, however.

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Response to closeupready (Reply #45)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:00 PM

96. Her hubby says he "doesn't know" if she's running or not.

I suspect that means she doesn't know yet either.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:10 PM

51. By then, we may be deeply into bloody wars with Syria and Iran, and Hillary won't be much more

popular than Dean Rusk or Robert McNamara was in 1968.

If America can stay out of wars in the next four years, she may have my vote.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #51)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:20 PM

69. I don't see the USA in bloody wars after we leave Afghanistan.

The model for intervention is Libya, where the USA let countries and people that had an immediate stake in removing a bloody dictator.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #69)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:04 PM

87. You shouldn't overlook how we have escalated our role in Syria, including coordination of foreign

fighters, particularly Libyans. Please take a look at a couple recent posts on that subject. The CIA is much more actively involved with the Syrian opposition than simply monitoring the situation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021343355
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/25/1136158/-Libya-Attack-Casts-Unwanted-Spotlight-on-CIA-and-Blackwater-Role-in-Syria

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:11 PM

52. What was the

question?

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:15 PM

54. no

she has done a good job as SoS but Presidentin' is a totally different thing.

she is not very good at surprise questions and fumbles and looks foolish when that happens. she is not well prepared for that bomb question, whatever it may be, and there are thousands of those for her.

she does not have a core centre that she can hang onto. she has told a lot of lies in a lot of ways so will forever be imbalanced and that will drain any strength she has away. and the media will pound her on some of the really awful and silly things she did in the primaries.

I know Bill really wants to be President again by proxy but I sure hope this will not happen. It's so wrong on so many levels

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Response to Whisp (Reply #54)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:41 PM

79. She was born in 1947. She will be 69 in 2016.

Biden was born in 1942. He is now about 69-70. They are only five years apart, yet people seem to assume that Biden will not want to run because of his age.

I don't think either of them will run.

Running for the presidency is exhausting. Hillary Clinton is healthy and looks wonderful, but I can't imagine her being foolish enough to put herself through a presidential campaign in 2016.

Besides, how old is Chelsea? And how long has she been married? It is always possible that Hillary Clinton will have more interesting things to do than run for office -- like family things -- in a few years.

Hillary lived for eight years in the fishbowl called the White House. I can't imagine that she would want to live there for another four or eight.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #79)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:00 PM

85. She didn't mind that prospect in 2008.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #85)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:44 PM

88. It's the eight year timeframe you want to think about. How old will she be eight years from 2016?

That's why I don't think she will run.

Even Elizabeth Warren born in 1949 would be pushing it. You just don't have as much energy at 69 as you do at 65. At least most people don't.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #88)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:53 PM

91. That may be true, but I think she is one of the exceptions

She's doing quite well, and being Secretary of State may be an even more stressful job than being President, and by all accounts she's done a fine job at it. Ultimately it is up to her and Bill, and I think if both are in good health in 2015 then she may decide to run. I think Bill's health is probably the bigger question mark as he's had some health scares in the past. I'd say there's probably about a 1 in 4 chance she runs, but it's at least well within the realm of possibility.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:22 PM

56. Of course I think that she could win in 2016.

The question is whether she will want to give it another shot. She would have more experience than almost any candidate we ever had: 8 years in the WH, 8 years in the Senate and 4 years as SOS. Aside from whatever she will do when she leaves her current post and the next presidential election.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the 4 years.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:50 PM

57. "F*ck off, ***hole" (no, not you)

I call your attention to this week's profanity-laden meltdown of her spokesman, Philippe Reines. Has he lost his job? Has he even been publicly repudiated? In 2008, what gave me pause about Hillary was not her, but her staff (and her blind devotion to them); I think you can make the argument that, had she been surrounded by better people, she would now be president. I think you can also make the argument that if she ran the country the way she ran her campaign, you wouldn't want her to be president (indeed, you can argue that her campaign resembled the Bush presidency: she surrounded herself by people who told her what she wanted to hear, she refused to punish incompetence, she and her people understood the reality of her situation far too late, etc.).

So can she win in 2016? Not unless she's willing to value competence above loyalty, and its still not clear she does.

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Response to Proud Public Servant (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:50 PM

74. Hastings deserved Reines' response.

The exchange started polite enough until Hastings became rude. Did you read the whole back and forth?

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Response to Beacool (Reply #74)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:53 PM

114. Yes, but the job of a spokesman

is to not take the bait. It's not the playground -- who started it doesn't matter. He's shown himself to be less than a pro, which is par for the course for those Hillary surrounds herself with (Mark Penn, anyone?); that's what worries me about a 2016 run.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:51 PM

58. I plan to contribute to her campaign and vote for Clinton.

Bill Clinton was great, and fun to watch.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:54 PM

59. YES

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #61)


Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:12 PM

65. too old, and she had a shot already

 

I was a Hillary supporter in 2008, and was very upset she lost, but I think her time is past as a potential president. It will be time for someone completely new by then, and hopefully a fire breathing take-no-prisoners progressive/liberal will arise...

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Response to quinnox (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:21 PM

70. I think her experience in foreign issues will be valuable

she also has experience here at home. I don't think that she is too old

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Response to quinnox (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:05 PM

72. Biden is serving as VP right now and he's older

than her! She'll release her medical records too, so if there are concerns we can address them later.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:13 PM

66. Yes..she is stronger and more beloved than ever.

She has the respect of many Republicans. She took her losing to Obama and put country first and gained respect here and worldwide. What other Dem could challenge her..honestly..?? When Ann Romney said we should be grateful that a man with Willard's credentials offered to be president... The reality is the country would see Hillary as a gift if she ran. From republican fund raising punching bag--to secretary of state.. she would be our best prepared candidate in a long time.

Last point..Andrew Cuomo may have ambition and be a good politician...but he is not as gifted as his father. Many of us hoped and believed Mario should have run...I don't see Andrew as having the same skills and traditional democratic positions.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:41 PM

71. Yep

As for what when wrong in 2008, that requires a thread all it's own.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:06 PM

76. She'd be damn near unstoppable

Who does the right have?
Gov. Christie Creme?
Rubio the Ken doll?
Jindal the exorcist?
Lyin' Ryan?
an aging Rudy 91ul1ani?

They wouldn't stand a chance.
The GOP hasn't groomed a serious candidate, and there's a very good chance the 2016 primaries will be as big of a train wreck for them as 2012 was.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Reply #76)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:04 PM

105. Unstoppable...HA! Like she was in 2008???? Too funny. n/t

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:08 PM

77. hopefully dem primary voters will be done with centrists

and hopefully in the 2016 Democratic primaries, close ties to Wall Street will be seen as disqualifying

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:33 PM

78. yes

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:47 PM

81. Elizabeth Warren is a better bet in my opinion.

More likely to run. And would do better than Hillary.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #81)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:09 PM

101. That would be good. nt

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #101)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:55 PM

113. But then I checked her age, and she is about the same age as Hillary.

Someone younger will emerge as a good possibility.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:46 PM

89. I hope not

I wouldn't vote for her.
Someone else, please.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:49 PM

90. God I hope not,

 

One Clinton was bad enough, a second one would be a disaster.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:54 PM

92. I don't think this question can be answered objectively without first considering the next four yrs.

When Obama gets re-elected, the next four years and how it turns out will determine which party's nominee becomes the next President IMO.

If the economy turns around; she's a shoe-in if she runs.

If the economy doesn't turn around or gets worse; the republicans would have to be favored.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #92)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:05 PM

106. no, she's not a "shoe-in" if she runs. Good grief! n/t

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:55 PM

94. I think so if she learned the lesson from 2008

She will get to see it run again this year as well. You organize everywhere and you draw the battlelines in the red states. The Gore / Kerry model does not work anymore. You put them on the defense from day 1, and press every advantage as broadly as possible.

If Hillary had decided to run the primary in red states, she would likely be President now. She only had to take a handful of them to deny BHO the nom.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:59 PM

95. Historically, Democrats do better when we put up a fresh face

Republicans do best with older established candidates (really the only kind they ever nominate). Democrats get wired up for fresh young things--I suspect in part because we're still aching for Bobby to return to us. There's a lot of young post-Clinton-Era hot dogs out there who won't defer to her the way most of the field did in 2008. I wouldn't rule her out, but I would put the odds strongly against her actually winning the nomination. If nominated, she'd be a weaker than average candidate. People are going to want "change" again in 2016. Whatever her skill set, she's going to have to avoid the "same old, same old" vibe.

I'd like to see Claire McCaskill nominated. She seems like a well rounded candidate. I suspect that the Cuomo kid will be the actual nominee, however.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:03 PM

97. Yes but lets win this one first

Then we can start talking about Hillary
Wouldn't that be awesome if she was to run, of course she would win, to have her and Bill back in the white house. I personally think that Bill would do us proud as first Dude.
for right now though it's GOBAMA all the way

Obama could be her Secretary of State Now that would be a awesome for sure.

I love her too

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:08 PM

99. "Most of us automatically assume she's a shoo-in" ? Really? Nobody assumes that.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:10 PM

103. the onlt reason she lost 2016

Is because she went to the right, listening to people like Mark Penn and her husband. I do not think she willmake the same mistake twice, if anything, expect a lot of photos with Barack and Michelle.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #103)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:06 PM

107. too late...she can't take back her words or her vote(s) n/t

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #103)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:52 PM

117. I think you mean 2008.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:56 PM

104. jeb bush will be elected president in 2016..

bank it.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:11 PM

108. Could win? Yes.

 

Would win? Probably not.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:32 PM

110. I hope like hell she does not seek the nomination and if she does I hope like hell she craps out

Further, I hope the entire Turd Way is fully flushed by that time and not a one of the proto-fascists are any closer to consideration than say Ron Paul on the other side.

What the hell is wrong with some people? What the fuck does a piece of shit centrist have to offer America but more of the same poison that is killing us now in a slightly diluted strength from the batshit insane TeaPubliKlans?

The Clinton nostalgia is a form of a suicidal tendency that is blind to the policies that worked in concert with the Reich wing to fuck We, the People up.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 10:47 PM

115. I can see your point

The main reason I would support her running is because there are stil lbad feelings in this party. There are many who felt that she should have been elected in 2008, and that Obama should have been a good boy and waited until 2016 to run. There is a part of me that would love to purge out the cory bookers, Rahm Emmanuels, and other slime, but as this election showed, we need the damned Big Dog. Until the day Bill is taken to that big front porch in the sky, his influence will dominate, period.

The election is Hillary's to take. The GOP will still have no one to offer but the clown car, as the strongest non mitt candidates will be Jeb Bush and Chris Christie. Even if Mitt wins, and wants to run a second term, his own party will work to throw him out, as they want either a Ryan, or someone who makes Ryan look like Ralph Nader. The GOP will go hard right no matter what. Yes, one would think that the diaster that is the Mitt campaign would make them think otherwise, but as long as the Billionaires shovelmoney, they do not care if 99 percent of the universe hates mitt, he is their boy, and NOTHING else matters. Anything less than a name like Hillary will drown in the ads.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:48 PM

116. Piece of shit centrist??????????

A "piece of shit centrist" had to be called to save your hero's bacon at the convention. Furthermore, you better hope that many "piece of shit centrists" vote this November or you can say hello to president Romney.

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Response to apples and oranges (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:47 PM

111. Oh yes!!!

Many seem to forget that she was *thisclose* the last time. She's a brilliant woman, I'm sure she learned from her mistakes, and now can now add SOS to her resume.

Think about it...First Lady, Senator, SOS...who could come even close?

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