Some windows on airplanes DO open. Hundreds of planes have landed safely after depressurization

[KurtNYC]

with no fatalities and only minor injuries.

Here is Richard Branson popping out the cockpit window


Southwest Airlines flight 182 in 2011 had a 3-foot by 6-foot hole torn in the fuselage and landed safely with 118 passengers and 5 crew members.

Mythbusters conducted two experiments on depressurization and twice busted the myth that everyone on board will be sucked through any hole in the fuselage. Buster remained in the aircraft.

Aircraft are designed to withstand decompression events and many are now certified to fly at 40,000 ft or higher.

[1-Old-Man]

1. True that, but not in the airplanes Mitt's wife is flying on.

You can fly up to 20,000 feet in an unpressurized cabin as I recall, above that there are severe medical consequences to the lack of pressure and oxygen. You may also recall that when climbing Everest they call the hill above 25,000 feet the "death zone" because if you stay long (without supplemental oxygen) you die.

[trof]

15. Time of Useful Consciousness (TUC) at 20,000 is 10-20 minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Useful_Consciousness
Time of useful consciousness (TUC) is defined as the amount of time an individual is able to perform flying duties efficiently in an environment of inadequate oxygen supply.[1] It is the period of time from the interruption of the oxygen supply or exposure to an oxygen-poor environment to the time when useful function is lost, and the individual is no longer capable of taking proper corrective and protective action.
(Sorry I can't get the chart to line up better, but you can figure it out.)

Altitude in Flight level Time of Useful Consciousness Altitude in meters Altitude in feet
FL 150 30 min or more 4,572 m 15,000
FL 180 20 to 30 min 5,486 m 18,000
FL 220 5-10 min 6,705 m 22,000
FL 250 3 to 6 min 7,620 m 25,000
FL 280 2.5 to 3 mins 8,534 m 28,000
FL 300 1 to 3 mins 9,144 m 30,000
FL 350 30 sec to 60 sec 10,668 m 35,000
FL 400 15 to 20 sec 12,192 m 40,000
FL 430 9 to 15 sec 13,106 m 43,000
FL 500 and above 6 to 9 sec 15,240 m 50,000

I've been in an altitude chamber a few times to see what my own TUC was at various altitudes.
Also, airline pilots have a 'quick-don' O2 mask hanging within easy reach. We practice putting it on, testing, and using it before every flight. There's a built-in microphone for radio and PA transmissions.

The first step if you experience an explosive decompression is to put your mask on.
The masks in the passenger cabin should have dropped automatically, but you throw a switch to drop them manually just to be sure.
Next step is to initiate a rapid descent while notifying ATC of your predicament.
You get the aircraft down to 10,000' withing a matter of several seconds to 1 or 2 minutes.

[lapfog_1]

2. just having windows of the wrong size or shape is very dangerous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet

[Blue_Tires]

18. In De Havilland's defense;

not as much was known at the time about metal fatigue, and the cumulative effect of pressurization cycles on certain stress points...Sadly, it was a lesson written in blood...

If you ever see the Air Crash Investigation episode, it was utterly fascinating to see how the lead investigator was able to pinpoint the cause despite the rudimentary technology and methods of his era...

[RKP5637]

3. Just wear a windbreaker! LOL n/t

[KurtNYC]

5. and some extra hairspray.

[nc4bo]

7. Wigs? Toupees? Weave? Could be problematic.

I see an huge business opportunity in the making, for the right person.

[RKP5637]

32. LOL

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Cockpits have windows that can be opened, but

only when the airplane is depressurized. Those windows can't be opened above about 10,000 feet. And it's true that a making small hole in a pressurized fuselage will not rip it open - there are structural components (stringers) that will prevent that from happening. The airplane will withstand depressurization but if there is any significant breach in the fuselage (something the size of an open window, for example) the internal pressure will force the air out very rapidly and your time of useful consciousness will be less than a minute if you don't get your O2 mask on immediately.

Mitt's comment was stunningly stupid and revealed a lack of knowledge of something most sixth-graders understand.

[renie408]

6. +1

[KurtNYC]

8. Yes Romney said something stupid but

a lot of people are saying equally stupid things and perpetuating myths about airplanes in reaction to the stupid.

3'x6' is not a small hole to me.

[ProSense]

12. They're not equivalent.

I mean, the scenario in the OP is not casually opening a window in an airplane, and the OP relates to controlled circumstances:

Some windows on airplanes DO open. Hundreds of planes have landed safely after depressurization

with no fatalities and only minor injuries.

[treestar]

9. But Rmoney talked about it as if they should open like they do in a car

He didn't understand why they don't open. They are never supposed to be opened routinely.

[hlthe2b]

10. Tell that to the passengers of Hawaii Air Flight 811--nine were sucked out & died in 1989

Nobody in the back knew yet that nine business-class passengers near the front of the main passenger deck, and their seats, had been sucked out of the plane when the cargo door broke loose and a huge piece of the fuselage peeled away.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/26/us/aboard-flight-811-passengers-routine-dissolves-into-terror.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

OR Flight 243 in 2001:

Everything seemed normal aboard Flight 243 last Thursday afternoon when suddenly -- with a whoosh like a paper bag popping -- a gaping hole blew open in the fuselage directly above the first- class compartment. "Everything was flying around -- books, papers, money," said Stanford Samson, a passenger seated nearby. "A stewardess was in the aisle being pulled toward the hole. Everybody who could grabbed her and held onto her." Farther back in the coach seats, Eric Becklin, 48, thought to himself that "my life was not in order, and I wasn't ready to die."

In theory, a Boeing 737 with roughly one-third of its roof blown off should not be able to fly.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,149181,00.html#ixzz27UdUHWiM

OR

the woman sucked out of the corporate plane:
woman was apparently sucked out of an airborne corporate plane as the passenger in front of her made a desperate attempt to save her — and pilots didn’t know it until they reached they landed.

FBI agents investigating a woman’s 2,000-foot fall Thursday night have ruled out foul play and are treating it as an accident or a suicide. The passenger who tried to save her felt a strange sensation, turned around, and saw the woman being sucked out an open emergency exit door, agent Andy Black said. With other passengers watching, the man held on to her as long as he could, but finally had to let go to avoid being sucked out as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94690&page=1#.UGHEzK5m2Pt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. not exactly a hole the size of a window

these passengers weren't killed by depressurization; they were killed by 200+ mph winds (created by flight) that entered the cabin when a HUGE FUCKING CHUNK OF THE PLANE BLEW OFF.

sP

[hlthe2b]

23. they were sucked out. If, as you claim it was the winds hitting them then all their surrounding

passengers (who managed not to be sucked out) would be dead.

And, yes, FAA/NTSB found they were sucked out by the rapid depressurization.

In events like these, the sucking force originates from a difference in pressure between the cabin environment and the outdoor one. Aircraft are generally kept at an air pressure similar to what you’d find between 6,000 and 8,000 feet above sea level. At a cruising altitude of 30,000 feet, pressure outside of the plane is about two and a half times lower than what passengers experience on the inside.

http://news.discovery.com/human/southwest-airplane-cracks-falling-110408.html

[ProdigalJunkMail]

30. some initially we 'sucked out' to be sure

but the depressurization would have been nearly immediate. anyone that was pulled out after the first couple of seconds would not have been due to change in pressure.

sP

[hlthe2b]

31. Which is the point.

YOU said: "22. not exactly a hole the size of a window

these passengers weren't killed by depressurization; they were killed by 200+ mph winds (created by flight) that entered the cabin when a HUGE FUCKING CHUNK OF THE PLANE BLEW OFF.

NO, as I have already proven (or rather DISCOVERY has already proven along with the NTSB and FAA), they were SUCKED out by the instant depressurization.

[Lint Head]

11. But, but, but Goldfinger.

[Courtesy Flush]

13. Is this an argument for having opening windows?

Because it still seems like a dangerous thing to me.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. That cockpit window will not open unless there is no pressure in the cabin...

A decompression event will require the use of oxygen masks, no passenger plane is made to decompress and just keep flying.

[KurtNYC]

16. Yes they are "made to decompress and just keep flying"

Small passenger planes such as a Cessna 402 have no pressurization to begin with.

But if we are talking about Boeing and Airbus, they are made to withstand various depressurization events and be able to land and plenty have done it. United flight 811, a Boeing 747, lost a cabin door at 23,000 and landed 14 minutes later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_811

[ProSense]

17. Are you serious?

"United flight 811, a Boeing 747, lost a cabin door at 23,000 and landed 14 minutes later. "

You think the following is a case for casually opening an airplane window?

Flight 811 took off from Honolulu International Airport bound for Auckland, New Zealand with 3 flight crew, 15 flight attendants, and 337 passengers at approximately 01:52 HST.[1] Its flight crew consisted of Captain David Cronin, First Officer Al Slader, and Flight Engineer Randal Thomas.

During the climb, the crew made preparations to detour around thunderstorms along the aircraft's track; anticipating turbulence, the captain kept the seatbelt sign lit. After the plane had been flying for approximately 16 minutes, and was passing between 22,000 and 23,000 feet (6,700–7,000 m), a grinding noise was suddenly heard in the business-class section, followed by a loud thud which rattled the whole aircraft. One and a half seconds later, the forward cargo door blew out abruptly. The pressure differential caved in the main cabin floor above the door, causing ten seats (G and H of Rows 8 to 12), as well as an individual seated in 9F, to be ejected from the cabin, and leaving a gaping hole in the aircraft. Nine fatalities resulted (Seats 8G and 12G were unoccupied).[1] The fatalities were: Anthony and Barbara Fallon, Harry and Susan Craig, Lee Campbell, Dr. J. Michael Crawford, John Swan, Rose Harley, and Mary Handley-Desso.[2] Mae Sapolu, a flight attendant in the Business Class cabin, was almost pulled out of the plane, and was seen by passengers and fellow crew members clinging to a seat leg; they were able to pull her to safety inside the cabin, although she was severely injured. Laura Brentlinger, the Chief purser and also a flight attendant in the Business Class Cabin, hung on to the steps leading to the upper deck, and was dangling from them when the decompression occured. The pilots began an emergency descent to get the aircraft down into breathable air rapidly, while performing a 180-degree left turn to fly back to Honolulu. The decompression damaged components of the on-board emergency oxygen supply system, which was primarily located in the forward cargo sidewall area, just aft of the cargo door.[3]

The debris ejected from the plane during the explosive decompression caused severe damage to the Number 3 and 4 engines, causing visible fires in both. The crew did not get fire warnings from either of them, although Engine 3 was experiencing heavy vibration, no N1 reading, and a low EGT and EPR. This led the crew to deactivate Engine 3. At 02:10, an emergency was declared, and the crew began dumping fuel to get the plane's weight down to an acceptable landing weight. Initially, they pushed the Number 4 engine slightly to help force the plane down faster; once they noticed that its N1 reading was almost zero and its EGT reading was high, and that it was emitting flames, they shut it down also. Some of the explosively ejected debris damaged the right wing's LEDs (Leading Edge Devices), dented the horizontal stabilizer on that side, and even struck the tailfin. NTSB reports found human remains in the fan blades of the Number 3 engine, suggesting that some of the victims died almost instantly as they were pulled out of the plane.[2]

[Blue_Tires]

21. I think you're mixing up minor, slower decompression events

versus "rapid" decompression, which is almost always catostrophic (depending on speed and altitude)...

[Blue_Tires]

19. Well, if you're going to mention that, at least mention the grandaddy of miracle flights:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Flight_243

[DevonRex]

20. Which is it? Romney was joking or windows open?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021411935

Get your story straight.

[EOTE]

24. Uhhhhh, so it wasn't a joke?

Or is your belief that it was a joke, but even if it wasn't, it's not that big a deal? How about the man is a fucking idiot and he should be ridiculed about all the idiotic things he does, not just select ones.

[October]

35. Excellent question. /nt

[DevonRex]

25. Call Scientific American Right Fucking NOW!!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021411597

[Warren Stupidity]

26. Is this actually a defense of rM0ney's idiocy of the day? Why?

[DevonRex]

28. Then he said it was just a joke.

Feller can't get his story straight.

Oh, and then it's because we are supposed to take the high ground.

And then it's cuz we are supposed to discuss only important issues.

[Care Acutely]

33. And now apparently he knows Mitt and Ann so well that he can say it was a joke

and they thought it was funny, and everyone did in the room too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021411935#post31

[DevonRex]

34. Amazing, isn't it? Well, he's either her hairdresser

or WTH is he doing HERE?

[liberalmuse]

27. I think we can safely say

that opening a window on an airplane is not advisable.

[Johonny]

29. Just ask Payne Stewart what a good idea it is

you can survive, but there is also a great risk that you will all pass out from low O2 before emergency procedures kick in.

[WinkyDink]

36. SO WHAT? Romney didn't KNOW this, or he wouldn't have GRIPED. (Not a joke.)

[October]

37. Gee, thanks for the photo of Branson popping out of the hole...

As a former stew, married to an airline pilot/captain -- just stop. OK?

All these threads you're using to defend Mitt's gaffes, humor, etc. are nauseating.

There've been several flight attendants and one pilot I recall (British Airways) sucked out of airplanes at altitude due to damage to the fuselage (or cockpit window) resulting from explosive or rapid decompression.

You contend and defend that Mitt was joking. That is your opinion. Others differ; they're allowed to differ. You are not the final say, yet you continue to argue with people on different threads, trying to convince everyone it was a joke. And now, as another pointed out, you are suggesting that "...windows on airplanes DO open". Yeah, ON THE GROUND IN THE COCKPIT.

Thanks for citing Wikipedia and Mythbusters, though. How willing are you to sit in Buster's seat for such a test run?

And for the record, SMOKE in the cockpit or anywhere on the airplane is one of the WORST scenarios for a pilot/crew.

Any way you look at it, there is nothing funny about it.

[fascisthunter]

38. say hi to Mitt for us