Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:37 PM

grasswire (36,876 posts)

Dems have Romney's tax returns.

That's what I've been told by an authoritative journalist in Washington, an old friend.

Someone in McCain's camp leaked the returns. Dems have them.

This isn't going away.

160 replies, 18072 views

Thread info

Reply to this thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

160 replies	Author	Time	Post
Dems have Romney's tax returns. (Original post)	grasswire	Sep 2012	OP
Really? Hmm...	ananda	Sep 2012	#1
I hope so.	tosh	Sep 2012	#2
Any idea how long they've had them?	Vox Moi	Sep 2012	#3
Wasn't there also a "Larry Flynt Bombshell" report last night?	polichick	Sep 2012	#4
you mean other than his $1mm pledge?	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2012	#20
Yes, I thought there was a thread last night about some news...	polichick	Sep 2012	#25
I saw that too.	Control-Z	Sep 2012	#31
Well at least I know I wasn't seeing things. lol	polichick	Sep 2012	#33
This thread ...	doublethink	Sep 2012	#46
That's it - thank you!	polichick	Sep 2012	#47
I sure hope they do. They don't have to show them. Just ask him about specific items during	nanabugg	Sep 2012	#5
Is that how Reid knows	montanacowboy	Sep 2012	#6
Reid got it from a Bain investor	KurtNYC	Sep 2012	#27
GOOD, THEN WE WON'T NEED	montanacowboy	Sep 2012	#38
Yes a stake!	DrewFlorida	Sep 2012	#44
I'll take mine medium rare.	louis-t	Sep 2012	#55
Paul Ryan's the vampire, check out that widow's peak	Dont call me Shirley	Sep 2012	#82
I collect nesting dolls! That's a great idea!	1GirlieGirl	Sep 2012	#40
LOL!	randome	Sep 2012	#60
That sounds like the new form of trickle down	Hutzpa	Sep 2012	#65
Twisted!	Mnemosyne	Sep 2012	#74
LOLOL!	OneGrassRoot	Sep 2012	#112
Yzma? Is that you?	Scootaloo	Sep 2012	#123
My spinach puffs!	CoffeeCat	Sep 2012	#136
It and "Lilo and Stitch" are Disney sleeper classics	Scootaloo	Sep 2012	#139
I agree about all of those movies...	CoffeeCat	Sep 2012	#147
I prefer what someone else here said last week...	George II	Sep 2012	#137
Well, we know that he did pay in two of the last ten years. So, how valid is the rest of	SlimJimmy	Sep 2012	#61
Actually, what we do KNOW is that he manipulated his 2011 tax return...	Spazito	Sep 2012	#75
Thank you for your concern.	aquart	Sep 2012	#83
No need to worry about my concern. What you need to worry about is the	SlimJimmy	Sep 2012	#129
Correct...	DearAbby	Sep 2012	#160
Voter ID fraud bullshit is the only thing we should worry about	1GirlieGirl	Sep 2012	#86
Reid is usually very careful in what he says.	Live and Learn	Sep 2012	#135
But, wasn't that after Obama said they had the list of names with off-shore accounts?	Frustratedlady	Sep 2012	#152
If they do...It won't be before middle October. n/t	vaberella	Sep 2012	#131
Hmmm...	bluedeminredstate	Sep 2012	#7
Yes, and clearly he played a part...	CoffeeCat	Sep 2012	#142
hmmm..	MnAttorney	Sep 2012	#8
Welcome to DU!	livetohike	Sep 2012	#11
Why do they exclude 2009?	PearliePoo2	Sep 2012	#17
McCain asked for Romney's tax returns when he was considering him for VP	Hamlette	Sep 2012	#21
Gotcha!	PearliePoo2	Sep 2012	#39
2009 was the tax amnesty year for people with illegal swiss accounts	magical thyme	Sep 2012	#96
Welcome!	defacto7	Sep 2012	#77
Here comes the October surprise	malaise	Sep 2012	#9
Haha! Perfect!	gateley	Sep 2012	#126
How long have they had them?	Control-Z	Sep 2012	#10
This is as I've suspected. Harry Reid would NOT be blowing smoke.	PearliePoo2	Sep 2012	#12
Nope. Harry was a boxer in his youth.	hifiguy	Sep 2012	#43
Good analogy, I agree!	DrewFlorida	Sep 2012	#48
And, if it IS true (ohplease!ohplease!ohplease!), Reid looks like a very wise man.	Indpndnt	Sep 2012	#87
Oh MY !	kentuck	Sep 2012	#13
Hence this last ditch punt	malaise	Sep 2012	#14
I would think that if he knew the Dems	Raven	Sep 2012	#18
He can't - he'd rather be taken down	malaise	Sep 2012	#37
Interesting that the Repubbies are outing their own Romnoid Rat	Berlum	Sep 2012	#15
Looks like the repugs are running away from Mr Goldfinger himself	Hutzpa	Sep 2012	#19
that picture if very scary to me...I can't look at it	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2012	#24
It's interesting how that really looks a lot like Romney.	yardwork	Sep 2012	#81
Willard and his friend Bain...	alterfurz	Sep 2012	#111
let james carter the 3rd release them n/t	rsweets	Sep 2012	#16
No....Roselyn ! That would be the ultimate - a "wo-man" (said like Seinfeld says Neu-man"	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2012	#22
Long forms? We are only accepting long form tax returns.	Gold Metal Flake	Sep 2012	#23
LOL..Funniest line of the day	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2012	#26
DUzy	malaise	Sep 2012	#28
I doubt whether he ever used form 1040EZ. Nowhere to put the Cayman Island accounts!	madinmaryland	Sep 2012	#35
Heavy breathing, no sources	bluestateguy	Sep 2012	#29
If someone did leak the returns, they may have broken the law. n/t	cynatnite	Sep 2012	#30
Which probably means	Control-Z	Sep 2012	#36
but they could just make copies and throw them to the wind	DonRedwood	Sep 2012	#89
If they worked at the IRS, yes. If it's someone Romney voluntarily gave the returns to,	gkhouston	Sep 2012	#42
Bingo. If Willard voluntarily gave his tax returns to	hifiguy	Sep 2012	#50
The worst that could happen...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Sep 2012	#70
It's interesting. When someone gives a candidate returns, you would think they would get them	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2012	#54
How many people do you guess	Aerows	Sep 2012	#67
chances are they were on a usb drive.	uncle ray	Sep 2012	#118
confidentiality applies to everyone-IRS or no.	kywildcat	Sep 2012	#64
You underestimate	Aerows	Sep 2012	#71
Got a link for that? To me, it looks like government employees who legitimately acquire the	gkhouston	Sep 2012	#85
If it was a campaign worker-but McCain is indeed	kywildcat	Sep 2012	#114
IRS employees are barred from looking at their own returns. Period. You answer lots of questions	Democrat 4 Ever	Sep 2012	#103
exactly.	kywildcat	Sep 2012	#116
I'm told it didn't used to be that way	Major Nikon	Sep 2012	#120
yes, before it was automated	kywildcat	Sep 2012	#125
So a private tax preparer can leak returns? I doubt it!	Logical	Sep 2012	#132
exactly.	bluestate10	Sep 2012	#154
Not necessarily.	Jackpine Radical	Sep 2012	#90
Can you cite the law to back that up?	cynatnite	Sep 2012	#91
If there is a confidentiality agreement, then it's a matter for civil law.	Jackpine Radical	Sep 2012	#113
Exactly. Romney has no criminal recourse. nt	bluestate10	Sep 2012	#155
Of course. Reid knew. That's why he said it and wrote it	DevonRex	Sep 2012	#32
I don't trust this. It has Rove all over it. I don't trust John McCain. At all!!!!	Liberal_Stalwart71	Sep 2012	#34
Didn't Rove "leak" indirectly to the Kerry campaign a letter that turned out to be fake?	George II	Sep 2012	#140
It only makes sense this became an issue after we got a copy of the video and the returns, 1-2 punch	leveymg	Sep 2012	#41
maybe they can explain differences	nycbiscuit	Sep 2012	#45
Thanks for that info.	doublethink	Sep 2012	#51
The same way his 2010 taxes are explained	Aerows	Sep 2012	#72
can't be credits	nycbiscuit	Sep 2012	#99
Have you read all of the deductions? n/t	Aerows	Sep 2012	#100
not deductions	nycbiscuit	Sep 2012	#105
Not deductions	Aerows	Sep 2012	#107
Did you see page 1008	Aerows	Sep 2012	#106
you don't have to look deep	nycbiscuit	Sep 2012	#109
The problem is the tax evasion, not the reported taxes	BlueStreak	Sep 2012	#49
no doubt we have them, but we can not legally release them	krawhitham	Sep 2012	#52
I do believe it would be illegal	railsback	Sep 2012	#53
Please let this be real and not a "Rove to be indicted within X business days" rumor.	Tommy_Carcetti	Sep 2012	#56
When I heard Reid the other day, he was more tentative about paying not taxes -- not like	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2012	#57
dang, I knew McCain would still have copies of those!	librechik	Sep 2012	#58
NPR said he released his tax returns	babsbunny	Sep 2012	#59
I never thought that they didn't	Aerows	Sep 2012	#62
What difference does it make??	tjdee	Sep 2012	#63
no one said anything about releasing them.	grasswire	Sep 2012	#93
If they get leaked to a journalist, they'll likely be published.	closeupready	Sep 2012	#66
It is 'legal' to publish them because the U.S. does not make any provision for	coalition_unwilling	Sep 2012	#79
It wouldn't necessarily be a violation of the law	Major Nikon	Sep 2012	#121
Woodward and Bernstein.	tavalon	Sep 2012	#117
If true, Obama should tell them to bury them...	Ztolkins	Sep 2012	#68
I agree.	bluestate10	Sep 2012	#156
If they do have them I hope they don't do anything with them.	Hyper_Eye	Sep 2012	#69
agreed	lexw	Sep 2012	#73
What does "them" mean?	defacto7	Sep 2012	#76
Romney just released his 2011 returns	lexw	Sep 2012	#78
Yes - read that on aol.	emilyg	Sep 2012	#92
Wiki leaks?	leftylauren	Sep 2012	#80
Wouldn't it be better	landolfi	Sep 2012	#84
it must be excruciating torture for Romney	grasswire	Sep 2012	#94
That would explain the release of Romney's 20 year average tax rate today	Tom Rinaldo	Sep 2012	#88
But would it be legal for them to release them??	kentuck	Sep 2012	#95
no need to release them.	grasswire	Sep 2012	#97
Anonymous mailing to Wash Post.	DCBob	Sep 2012	#124
Nothing against you, but I call BS on this story.	Logical	Sep 2012	#98
machts nichts	grasswire	Sep 2012	#101
Not calling your side of this BS but maybe whoever told your friend the story. But....	Logical	Sep 2012	#104
Why can't you disclose who told you?	onenote	Sep 2012	#128
shrug	grasswire	Sep 2012	#134
If I may ask...	CoffeeCat	Sep 2012	#144
Released his 2011 return...	Lightbulb_on	Sep 2012	#102
Romney's tax returns	Aerows	Sep 2012	#108
He is a gift, that's for sure.	Indpndnt	Sep 2012	#115
Nah. McCain didn't get the FULL returns, did he? And for how many years?	Honeycombe8	Sep 2012	#110
means nothing	DisabledAmerican	Sep 2012	#119
Probably waiting until facepaintgate goes away	Doctor_J	Sep 2012	#122
At the rate Rmoney is going we may never need these anyway	sellitman	Sep 2012	#127
Isn't that illegal?	ryan_cats	Sep 2012	#130
...	femrap	Sep 2012	#133
I think Reid has had them for a long time...	CoffeeCat	Sep 2012	#138
We have been down this road before. I will not hold my breath.	Buzz Clik	Sep 2012	#141
Yeppers, we'll get them in 24 business hours...	ryan_cats	Sep 2012	#151
Surely you're not the ONLY person your friend told, and someone had to tell HIM.	cherokeeprogressive	Sep 2012	#143
+1	onenote	Sep 2012	#158
Of course they do	Egnever	Sep 2012	#145
I don't think Romney can take another major fuck up	aint_no_life_nowhere	Sep 2012	#146
Romney made one Friday with the taxes that he did release.	bluestate10	Sep 2012	#157
I hope this comes to pass.	AllyCat	Sep 2012	#148
Romney himself made the taxes a major issue so I hope so.	Kablooie	Sep 2012	#149
Another internet rumor people are falling for.	former9thward	Sep 2012	#150
This is great news because	sherylkaye	Sep 2012	#153
What happened to the computers from the McCain campaign?	Mopar151	Sep 2012	#159

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:39 PM

ananda (12,661 posts)

1. Really? Hmm...

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:39 PM

tosh (2,990 posts)

2. I hope so.

That could be fun!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:40 PM

Vox Moi (228 posts)

3. Any idea how long they've had them?

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:40 PM

polichick (30,376 posts)

4. Wasn't there also a "Larry Flynt Bombshell" report last night?

Reply to this post

Response to polichick (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:54 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (15,276 posts)

20. you mean other than his $1mm pledge?

Reply to this post

Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:57 PM

polichick (30,376 posts)

25. Yes, I thought there was a thread last night about some news...

...soon to come but I can't find it today.

Reply to this post

Response to polichick (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:59 PM

Control-Z (8,332 posts)

31. I saw that too.

Never saw a follow up.

Reply to this post

Response to Control-Z (Reply #31)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:00 PM

polichick (30,376 posts)

33. Well at least I know I wasn't seeing things. lol

Reply to this post

Response to polichick (Reply #33)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:21 PM

doublethink (6,097 posts)

46. This thread ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251102343

doesn't look like anything came of it ... yet anyway.

Reply to this post

Response to doublethink (Reply #46)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:22 PM

polichick (30,376 posts)

47. That's it - thank you!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:41 PM

nanabugg (2,198 posts)

5. I sure hope they do. They don't have to show them. Just ask him about specific items during

the debates. He will be flustered. Or, just leak a little here and there to FOX "News" It will send them over a cliff.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:42 PM

montanacowboy (3,387 posts)

6. Is that how Reid knows

that he paid no taxes?

are they going to release them - PUT THE FINAL NAIL IN THAT BASTARD'S COFFIN

Reply to this post

Response to montanacowboy (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:58 PM

KurtNYC (12,195 posts)

27. Reid got it from a Bain investor

the coffin is already hermetically sealed and encased within another, slightly larger, coffin which the tax returns will encase in yet another slightly larger coffin, Ukrainian style.

Reply to this post

Response to KurtNYC (Reply #27)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:04 PM

montanacowboy (3,387 posts)

38. GOOD, THEN WE WON'T NEED

A STAKE TO FINISH IT OFF

Reply to this post

Response to montanacowboy (Reply #38)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:20 PM

DrewFlorida (615 posts)

44. Yes a stake!

Reply to this post

Response to montanacowboy (Reply #38)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:33 PM

louis-t (12,542 posts)

55. I'll take mine medium rare.

What? Oh....

Reply to this post

Response to montanacowboy (Reply #38)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:48 PM

Dont call me Shirley (1,395 posts)

82. Paul Ryan's the vampire, check out that widow's peak

Reply to this post

Response to KurtNYC (Reply #27)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:07 PM

1GirlieGirl (261 posts)

40. I collect nesting dolls! That's a great idea!

A coffin with Rmoney's tax returns printed on it, then a smaller coffin, on down until you get to a tiny little Rmoney baby doll wearing magic underpants! Love it!

Reply to this post

Response to 1GirlieGirl (Reply #40)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:38 PM

randome (13,932 posts)

60. LOL!

Reply to this post

Response to 1GirlieGirl (Reply #40)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:44 PM

Hutzpa (10,475 posts)

65. That sounds like the new form of trickle down

lol

Reply to this post

Response to 1GirlieGirl (Reply #40)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:16 PM

Mnemosyne (16,484 posts)

74. Twisted!

I like that in a person!

Reply to this post

Response to 1GirlieGirl (Reply #40)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:43 PM

OneGrassRoot (18,993 posts)

112. LOLOL!

Reply to this post

Response to KurtNYC (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:18 AM

Scootaloo (6,062 posts)

123. Yzma? Is that you?

Reply to this post

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #123)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:28 PM

CoffeeCat (19,429 posts)

136. My spinach puffs!

Romney really reminds me of Kronk.

Big, dumb and oblivious.

Thanks for the Emperor's New Groove reference. Love that movie and anyone who mentions it certainly gains many points, in my book!

Reply to this post

Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #136)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:32 PM

Scootaloo (6,062 posts)

139. It and "Lilo and Stitch" are Disney sleeper classics

right there with The Great Mouse Detective.

Reply to this post

Response to Scootaloo (Reply #139)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:49 PM

CoffeeCat (19,429 posts)

147. I agree about all of those movies...

Lilo and Stitch was terrific.

The Emperor's New Groove is still my fav. I think I've seen it 100 times.

"Is there anything on this menu that isn't swimming in gravy?"

Reply to this post

Response to KurtNYC (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:29 PM

George II (3,032 posts)

137. I prefer what someone else here said last week...

Romney's "toast on the floor, butter side down"!

Reply to this post

Response to montanacowboy (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:39 PM

SlimJimmy (2,011 posts)

61. Well, we know that he did pay in two of the last ten years. So, how valid is the rest of

Senator Reid's claim? It's one thing to allege something, and quite another for it to be true. If this turns out not to be true, it will hurt us more than help.

Reply to this post

Response to SlimJimmy (Reply #61)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:22 PM

Spazito (26,475 posts)

75. Actually, what we do KNOW is that he manipulated his 2011 tax return...

in order to make the % work. The Romney campaign admits this manipulation themselves. To me, this makes Senator Reid's points even MORE valid, not less.

Reply to this post

Response to SlimJimmy (Reply #61)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:49 PM

aquart (67,682 posts)

83. Thank you for your concern.

Did Reid say "the LAST ten years"? Please provide a link.

Reply to this post

Response to aquart (Reply #83)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:19 AM

SlimJimmy (2,011 posts)

129. No need to worry about my concern. What you need to worry about is the

Romney campaign using this to beat us over the head. I'm never surprised at DU around election time, never disappointed with the self-appointed concern police when someone point s out a fact. Senator Reid said he hadn't paid taxes in ten years. You can try to create wiggle room all you want, but all the folks I've talked to about this (mostly progressives) took it to mean the last ten years.

Reply to this post

Response to SlimJimmy (Reply #129)

Sun Sep 23, 2012, 12:44 AM

DearAbby (12,196 posts)

160. Correct...

Romney had to take the amnesty, declaring prior undeclared sums of money in said Cayman accounts, Bermuda Accounts and Swiss bank accounts, in 2009. Paid the fee. He had not paid taxes on previously....cause he was HIDING IT.

Reply to this post

Response to SlimJimmy (Reply #61)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:55 PM

1GirlieGirl (261 posts)

86. Voter ID fraud bullshit is the only thing we should worry about

If we're vigilant and vocal and don't let these fucking snakes manipulate the rules and/or numbers, this shit is IN THE BAG.

Reply to this post

Response to SlimJimmy (Reply #61)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:20 PM

Live and Learn (1,540 posts)

135. Reid is usually very careful in what he says.

I think he is pretty positive that what he said is true. And from what we know of Romney, it certainly seems quite possible.

Reply to this post

Response to SlimJimmy (Reply #61)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 06:47 PM

Frustratedlady (8,962 posts)

152. But, wasn't that after Obama said they had the list of names with off-shore accounts?

Perhaps he started claiming that information after he was exposed. Perhaps he used that Son of Boss provision in earlier years and doesn't want to be caught.

Just thinkin' on computer keys.

Reply to this post

Response to montanacowboy (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:56 AM

vaberella (24,253 posts)

131. If they do...It won't be before middle October. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:42 PM

bluedeminredstate (3,319 posts)

7. Hmmm...

Steve Schmidt? He's actually reasonable and fair when he's on MSNBC. He seems totally disgusted by the GOP these days. Plus, he probably has Sarah Palin's dirty little secrets as well. He's got all kinds of inside scoop and a lot of credibility.

Reply to this post

Response to bluedeminredstate (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:36 PM

CoffeeCat (19,429 posts)

142. Yes, and clearly he played a part...

...in the movie Game Changer that revealed what a nutjob Palin was during the campaign. He has also appeared on CNN, completey dogging Palin and disclosing what a fake and an idiot she is. Of course, he said it in nicer terms, but clearly he has no problem confirming what the American public all ready knows and suspects about Palin.

With that said, it's obvious that Schmidt is a reasonable Republican. He is a very good guy. I don't think he appreciates it much that his party is being destroyed by a bunch of looney zealots. I also imagine that he's stricken by the damage that Romney has caused the entire Republican party.

I imagine that many in the Republican party want Romney completely discredited. They want him revealed for the fool that he is--so the party can distance themselves from him--when he loses. They want history to write that Romney was a mistake and an outlier and that he does not represent the Republican party.

So, I imagine that there are Republican forces (beyond the Noonan/Brooks contingent) who want Romney obliterated--so the fault of this election lies squarely on Romney and not on the Republican party.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:43 PM

MnAttorney (30 posts)

8. hmmm..

That would exclude 2009, however, which is the one we really want.

Reply to this post

Response to MnAttorney (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:46 PM

livetohike (14,776 posts)

11. Welcome to DU!

Reply to this post

Response to MnAttorney (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:53 PM

PearliePoo2 (2,923 posts)

17. Why do they exclude 2009?

Reply to this post

Response to PearliePoo2 (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:55 PM

Hamlette (11,845 posts)

21. McCain asked for Romney's tax returns when he was considering him for VP

Last edited Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:56 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

it is assumed that is the source, someone from McCain's 2008 campaign. McCain would have only had through 2007.

Reply to this post

Response to Hamlette (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:06 PM

PearliePoo2 (2,923 posts)

39. Gotcha!

Thanks!

Reply to this post

Response to PearliePoo2 (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:46 PM

magical thyme (4,254 posts)

96. 2009 was the tax amnesty year for people with illegal swiss accounts

Romney listed his Swiss accounts on federal filing forms without indicating whether they were (legal) US branches of UBS or (illegal) Swiss UBS.

In 2009, people with illegal Swiss accounts were granted amnesty if they owned up to their accounts and paid all due income taxes, interest and penalties on them.

That's why we want to see '09. To see if Romney was a tax felon who took advantage of the amnesty program.

Reply to this post

Response to MnAttorney (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:25 PM

defacto7 (3,616 posts)

77. Welcome!

Pull up a chair and stay a while!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:45 PM

malaise (107,012 posts)

9. Here comes the October surprise

Reply to this post

Response to malaise (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 08:44 AM

gateley (61,965 posts)

126. Haha! Perfect!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:45 PM

Control-Z (8,332 posts)

10. How long have they had them?

Have they been sitting on them for a while now?

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:48 PM

PearliePoo2 (2,923 posts)

12. This is as I've suspected. Harry Reid would NOT be blowing smoke.

Reid would NOT be regularly bringing this up if he didn't KNOW something. No way.
So....I wonder what their strategic timing for the leak will be? Or will there be one?
Damn...this is GREAT!

Reply to this post

Response to PearliePoo2 (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:19 PM

hifiguy (13,029 posts)

43. Nope. Harry was a boxer in his youth.

A good boxer never gives anything away with "tells" until he hits his opponent with the haymaker. And Harry has seemed to me throughout this whole tax dustup to have the quiet patience of the guy who drew the fourth ace, if I may mix metaphors.

Reply to this post

Response to hifiguy (Reply #43)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:22 PM

DrewFlorida (615 posts)

48. Good analogy, I agree!

Reply to this post

Response to hifiguy (Reply #43)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:59 PM

Indpndnt (2,311 posts)

87. And, if it IS true (ohplease!ohplease!ohplease!), Reid looks like a very wise man.

Well played.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:49 PM

kentuck (66,798 posts)

13. Oh MY !

Wouldn't Mitt know that?

Reply to this post

Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:49 PM

malaise (107,012 posts)

14. Hence this last ditch punt

Reply to this post

Response to malaise (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:53 PM

Raven (11,064 posts)

18. I would think that if he knew the Dems

had them, he'd release them himself and not just a summary.

Reply to this post

Response to Raven (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:03 PM

malaise (107,012 posts)

37. He can't - he'd rather be taken down

than take himself down

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:50 PM

Berlum (3,963 posts)

15. Interesting that the Repubbies are outing their own Romnoid Rat

Reply to this post

Response to Berlum (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:53 PM

Hutzpa (10,475 posts)

19. Looks like the repugs are running away from Mr Goldfinger himself

nt.

Reply to this post

Response to Berlum (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:56 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (15,276 posts)

24. that picture if very scary to me...I can't look at it

Reply to this post

Response to Berlum (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:47 PM

yardwork (37,165 posts)

81. It's interesting how that really looks a lot like Romney.

And Ryan. It looks a lot like both of them.

Reply to this post

Response to Berlum (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:16 PM

alterfurz (1,056 posts)

111. Willard and his friend Bain...

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:52 PM

rsweets (282 posts)

16. let james carter the 3rd release them n/t

Reply to this post

Response to rsweets (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:56 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (15,276 posts)

22. No....Roselyn ! That would be the ultimate - a "wo-man" (said like Seinfeld says Neu-man"

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:56 PM

Gold Metal Flake (13,776 posts)

23. Long forms? We are only accepting long form tax returns.

We want the WHOLE truth.

Reply to this post

Response to Gold Metal Flake (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:57 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (15,276 posts)

26. LOL..Funniest line of the day

Reply to this post

Response to Gold Metal Flake (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:59 PM

malaise (107,012 posts)

28. DUzy

Reply to this post

Response to Gold Metal Flake (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:00 PM

madinmaryland (53,182 posts)

35. I doubt whether he ever used form 1040EZ. Nowhere to put the Cayman Island accounts!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:59 PM

bluestateguy (40,060 posts)

29. Heavy breathing, no sources

My apologies, but we have to be hard-assed about this kind of stuff after the Killian memos in 2004.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:59 PM

cynatnite (27,377 posts)

30. If someone did leak the returns, they may have broken the law. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to cynatnite (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:02 PM

Control-Z (8,332 posts)

36. Which probably means

they couldn't use them.

Reply to this post

Response to Control-Z (Reply #36)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:05 PM

DonRedwood (3,549 posts)

89. but they could just make copies and throw them to the wind

that's the beautiful thing about the internet. It is the modern version of a plane dropping leaflets...except on a world-wide level.

Reply to this post

Response to cynatnite (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:14 PM

gkhouston (21,642 posts)

42. If they worked at the IRS, yes. If it's someone Romney voluntarily gave the returns to,

I doubt it. I don't think the confidentiality laws apply to non-government entities.

Reply to this post

Response to gkhouston (Reply #42)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:28 PM

hifiguy (13,029 posts)

50. Bingo. If Willard voluntarily gave his tax returns to

McCain's campaign and they didn't sign a confidentiality agreement, a staffer could leak them. Even if a confidentiality agreement was signed the worst thing that could happen would be a civil suit.

Methinks Harry Reid is playing the part of Bugs Bunny to Willard's Wile E. Coyote in this little psychodrama.

Reply to this post

Response to hifiguy (Reply #50)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:03 PM

Jeff In Milwaukee (12,571 posts)

70. The worst that could happen...

is being sued by a guy who can hire lawyers by the busload!

But you're right. If the person was not a tax preparer or otherwise licensed to practice by the IRS and did not sign a non-disclosure agreement. There's probably a civil suit in there, but nearly as I can tell, there is no inherent privacy to tax returns (like there would be with medical information, for example).

Reply to this post

Response to gkhouston (Reply #42)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:32 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (15,276 posts)

54. It's interesting. When someone gives a candidate returns, you would think they would get them

back if they weren't picked. I would. I wonder, where would McCain have had them? in a safe somewhere? haha

McCain hates Romney. In Game Change he was quoted as calling him an asshole.

paybacks are hell

Reply to this post

Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #54)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:51 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

67. How many people do you guess

that in an accountants office, or an attorney's office that makes shit for pay would be loyal to someone like Mitt Romney, who just said they were moochers? How many people do you think this man has screwed over in his lifetime with his sneering contempt? I'd bet quite a few.

Romney's downfall is his hubris. There are probably any number of people that would risk it for free, and any number that would eagerly leap on the chance to do it for compensation. I have rock-solid principles, and rock-solid commitment to adhering to privacy constraints. I'm not a greedy person in general, but I swear, I'd be tempted because he's such a fucking arrogant bastard.

He would last about ten minutes as royalty in European monarchy before someone plotted to off his ass with the attitude he shows the world. "Oh, well, just let the Middle East fight wars amongst themselves, eventually enough of them die then we will look into it."

Reply to this post

Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 04:24 AM

uncle ray (2,243 posts)

118. chances are they were on a usb drive.

i doubt he handed over reams of paper documents.

Reply to this post

Response to gkhouston (Reply #42)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:44 PM

kywildcat (582 posts)

64. confidentiality applies to everyone-IRS or no.

I doubt anyone would want to take on the liability for releasing something like that-except may Mr. Flynt.

Reply to this post

Response to kywildcat (Reply #64)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:04 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

71. You underestimate

How many people have been screwed over by Romney. That number is probably quite high, and when you screw over enough people that it is a huge crowd, they have a way of getting back at you.

I'm just assuming, because I certainly wasn't associated with him, but a man of his wealth has a lot of associations, and given his attitude, a lot of burned bridges.

Reply to this post

Response to kywildcat (Reply #64)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:51 PM

gkhouston (21,642 posts)

85. Got a link for that? To me, it looks like government employees who legitimately acquire the

information during the course of their work (whether it's an IRS employee or a Congressional staffer) can be prosecuted. If, however, Romney gave consent to the McCain campaign and they leaked the info, a civil suit would be the most that could be done, and that only if the campaign signed an agreement not to disclose.

Reply to this post

Response to gkhouston (Reply #85)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:12 PM

kywildcat (582 posts)

114. If it was a campaign worker-but McCain is indeed

government employee.

And when people sign on with a campaign or even a corp-they sign non competes and non disclosures. Anyone at a level within the McCain campaign that would have had access to and/or understood the tax returns would have signed the forms. Plus there's attorney client privilege.

I'm not a government employee-I do though work for one of the big 4 in the tax department. The people (including the secretaries) are always cognizant of what's at stake if they release something.

Reply to this post

Response to kywildcat (Reply #64)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:18 PM

Democrat 4 Ever (3,882 posts)

103. IRS employees are barred from looking at their own returns. Period. You answer lots of questions

about family, friends, neighbors, old addresses, school chums, past co-workers, they crawl up into your butte and you feel like you have had a lower GI exam by the time they let you go to work. And then you work ONLY on cases that your are assigned - never assigned a case if there is a possibility you MIGHT know them. Period. Co-worker looked up her baby sitter's social security number and was fired. She is now fighting criminal charges to stay out of jail. They don't mess around. Are there people who try to pull this stuff? Probably, I have no idea if they are actually successful or not but I would bet most anything I've got that the leak didn't come from the IRS.

And the secrecy from the public, nowhere on the form does it say this is private and confidential and cannot be shared. People hand over their returns all the time to bankers, accountants and news corps if they are pushed into a corner. They sign the jurat and swear and attest under threat of perjury that the return is true and accurate, but secret? Nope.

Reply to this post

Response to Democrat 4 Ever (Reply #103)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:16 PM

kywildcat (582 posts)

116. exactly.

I work for one of the big 4 in the tax department. We are required to stay on top of provacy requirements and what is public shareable information and what is PII (such as soc, date of birth, and health info or other info that would assist in identifying someone).

The attorneys, accountants and even the IRS-they don't mess around. We don't look up clients that we do not have a DIRECT need to know.

Reply to this post

Response to Democrat 4 Ever (Reply #103)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 06:17 AM

Major Nikon (10,090 posts)

120. I'm told it didn't used to be that way

A co-worker's wife worked for the IRS (now retired) and told me IRS workers would do things like record the tag number of someone who cut them off on the way to work and check their taxes to see if they warranted an audit. I have no way of knowing if this was true or not, but it sounded kinda scary at the time.

Reply to this post

Response to Major Nikon (Reply #120)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 08:34 AM

kywildcat (582 posts)

125. yes, before it was automated

and before there were means to track in real time who accessed what. Now, the tax returns in one city or district are processed somewhere else (with exceptions for businesses and some other specialized returns).

Reply to this post

Response to gkhouston (Reply #42)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 11:27 AM

Logical (8,456 posts)

132. So a private tax preparer can leak returns? I doubt it!

Reply to this post

Response to gkhouston (Reply #42)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:19 PM

bluestate10 (8,667 posts)

154. exactly.

If I happened to have left my tax returns near a copier and someone copied and distributed them, my best recourse would be civil action. But I would have to find the person that leaked them. Good luck with that.

Reply to this post

Response to cynatnite (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:07 PM

Jackpine Radical (36,681 posts)

90. Not necessarily.

Depends on the source. If they came from McCain's people, there's no law broken.

Reply to this post

Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #90)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:13 PM

cynatnite (27,377 posts)

91. Can you cite the law to back that up?

I've been told that advisors to candidates often have to sign a confidentiality agreement. Either way, I'm not confident that this is legal or if it's even true for that matter (I really have my doubts).

Reply to this post

Response to cynatnite (Reply #91)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:16 PM

Jackpine Radical (36,681 posts)

113. If there is a confidentiality agreement, then it's a matter for civil law.

And there would have to be an aggrieved person who is a signatory to the contract.

There is no law saying you (an ordinary person), not an IRS employee) can release someone else's taxes. There is also no law saying you can greet them on the street or, for that matter, give misinformation about them. But there is no law saying you can't. That's the point.

Reply to this post

Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #113)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:20 PM

bluestate10 (8,667 posts)

155. Exactly. Romney has no criminal recourse. nt

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:00 PM

DevonRex (20,349 posts)

32. Of course. Reid knew. That's why he said it and wrote it

that Mitt had paid no Federal income tax. Mitt admitted in a debate that for 2 years he had only paid Capital Gains. He exclaimed that he wouldnt have paid any taxes at all for the last 2 years under Newt's plan to do away with the capital gains tax.

His actual earnings are all sheltered somewhere else. That's what Reid has been getting at.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:00 PM

Liberal_Stalwart71 (14,151 posts)

34. I don't trust this. It has Rove all over it. I don't trust John McCain. At all!!!!

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #34)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:33 PM

George II (3,032 posts)

140. Didn't Rove "leak" indirectly to the Kerry campaign a letter that turned out to be fake?

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:10 PM

leveymg (26,758 posts)

41. It only makes sense this became an issue after we got a copy of the video and the returns, 1-2 punch

and RMoney is down for the ten count.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:21 PM

nycbiscuit (45 posts)

45. maybe they can explain differences

Why did the estimate of 2011 taxes that Romney released earlier this year differ SO MUCH from the actual return? The estimate released in Jan was for $20.9 million in AGI. The "actual" return is showing $13.7 million. That's a HUGE difference to explain, no? How do you lose $7 million in income?

Reply to this post

Response to nycbiscuit (Reply #45)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:29 PM

doublethink (6,097 posts)

51. Thanks for that info.

And welcome to DU.

Reply to this post

Response to nycbiscuit (Reply #45)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:10 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

72. The same way his 2010 taxes are explained

credits from "losses" in 2008 and 2009 which means he paid no taxes those years. Suspiciously during tax amnesty time.

Those credits were clearly carried over on 2010.

Reply to this post

Response to Aerows (Reply #72)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:58 PM

nycbiscuit (45 posts)

99. can't be credits

Credits would affect the tax owed (page 2). I'm talking about the difference in income (page 1).
The only number that's the same is the Taxable Refunds and Credits

Reply to this post

Response to nycbiscuit (Reply #99)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:08 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

100. Have you read all of the deductions? n/t

Reply to this post

Response to Aerows (Reply #100)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:16 PM

nycbiscuit (45 posts)

105. not deductions

I'm not talking about deductions or credits, which are listed separately from income.
Like Taxable interest
Estimate: $4,099,156
Actual: $3,012,775

That's a million dollar difference. Banks or investment accounts send statements every month, so there's no big surprise. Banks don't adjust the interest they pay at the end of the year. Just raises a red flag on that adjustment.

Reply to this post

Response to nycbiscuit (Reply #105)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:17 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

107. Not deductions

carry overs.

Reply to this post

Response to nycbiscuit (Reply #99)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:16 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

106. Did you see page 1008

He has so many pages in his tax return that you challenging this one the basis of page two is rather ridiculous. But I'll let you continue

Reply to this post

Response to Aerows (Reply #106)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:10 PM

nycbiscuit (45 posts)

109. you don't have to look deep

I'm talking about page one and page two of his 1040. You don't have to dig deep.

see
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2012/09/21/the-mysteries-in-mitt-romneys-tax-return

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:25 PM

BlueStreak (4,165 posts)

49. The problem is the tax evasion, not the reported taxes

He paid the billionaire's rate (15% capital gains) on the income he reported. Yeah, it sucks for billionaires to get a special low rate, but that's the law.

The real problem is all the income he has sheltered Enron-style in off-shore corporations and tax haven bank accounts. Most of that won't show up on his personal tax returns.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:31 PM

krawhitham (3,165 posts)

52. no doubt we have them, but we can not legally release them

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:31 PM

railsback (794 posts)

53. I do believe it would be illegal

for Mitten's tax returns to be made public without his authorization. So even if the Dems got ahold of Mitten's returns, they would be useless.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:33 PM

Tommy_Carcetti (16,639 posts)

56. Please let this be real and not a "Rove to be indicted within X business days" rumor.

Please!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:34 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (15,276 posts)

57. When I heard Reid the other day, he was more tentative about paying not taxes -- not like

he was in the past - adamantly saying he didn't pay.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:34 PM

librechik (25,161 posts)

58. dang, I knew McCain would still have copies of those!

hee hee

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:36 PM

babsbunny (8,216 posts)

59. NPR said he released his tax returns

interesting.............

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:40 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

62. I never thought that they didn't

And they are going to release them one week at a time, one devastating detail at a time. Mitt Romney already looks like he's ready to start taking Xanax, heart medication and enter a secure facility. Look at Ann Romney.

They can't keep up with the tidal wave of bad shit that comes out about them every day right now. Wait until the tax returns hit.

I fully expect Mitt to be showing up in drag at a gay parade for votes, and for Ann Romney to descend into levels of shrillness that would do a meth addict at a British Knighting ceremony blaze out proud.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:43 PM

tjdee (18,042 posts)

63. What difference does it make??

If they can't be released without his authorization, what proof can they ever show?
How can the charge ever look like anything other than sour grapes?

Honest question.

Reply to this post

Response to tjdee (Reply #63)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:36 PM

grasswire (36,876 posts)

93. no one said anything about releasing them.

It is enough to know what's in them, and if he's lying.

Drip, drip, drip.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:51 PM

closeupready (19,680 posts)

66. If they get leaked to a journalist, they'll likely be published.

Last edited Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:53 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I have no idea as to the legality of that - but the question in my mind is this:

How can it be legal to publish them, if it's illegal to leak them?

Anyway, I'm sure this story is false. No way McCain would do that (or whoever did it), and no way our side would do that, either.

Reply to this post

Response to closeupready (Reply #66)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:39 PM

coalition_unwilling (14,180 posts)

79. It is 'legal' to publish them because the U.S. does not make any provision for

'prior restraint' and Congress shall make no law reflecting the establishment of a free press.

In this scenario, the person doing the leaking would probably be violating some statute or civil code, but the entity publishing the leaked materials would be guilty of nothing (other than arguably bad form).

Reply to this post

Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #79)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 06:44 AM

Major Nikon (10,090 posts)

121. It wouldn't necessarily be a violation of the law

If an IRS worker or Willard's tax preparer were to leak one or more tax returns, they could face criminal sanctions as well as the person who published them. However, if someone were given the returns by Willard, like say one of McCain's campaign staffers, I don't believe any laws would be broken.

Reply to this post

Response to closeupready (Reply #66)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 04:12 AM

tavalon (25,960 posts)

117. Woodward and Bernstein.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 04:59 PM

Ztolkins (185 posts)

68. If true, Obama should tell them to bury them...

as much as I'd love them out there, it'd be no way to win an election.

Have 'em come out by Romney or an absolutely unrelated party, but not from the democrats. They can win on the issues.

Reply to this post

Response to Ztolkins (Reply #68)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:27 PM

bluestate10 (8,667 posts)

156. I agree.

Even after Romney released what he did, more questions popped up. Romney made greedy decisions that he will now pay for. Democrats are better to let questions about what Romney really paid and what Romney infested in eat away at Romney. Releasing Romney's tax returns smacks of dirty tricks and could work against democrats.

Romney's tax release was sudden and apparently poorly done. It seems that he is trying more to hide something than he is reacting to the possibility that democrats have his full returns.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:02 PM

Hyper_Eye (544 posts)

69. If they do have them I hope they don't do anything with them.

It is up to Mitt Romney to release his returns. As much as I hate to take that position, and as much as I think he should release them, this is his private information and it is up to him. If Dems released this information it would be the epitome of dirty politics. They are nobody but Romney's to release. That may not be a popular position here but I feel dirty just thinking about this tactic. The consequences of releasing them may not be what people here believe. It is possible that could backfire big time when you consider the legal implications and the way that disclosure looks. It just isn't the way to go.

Reply to this post

Response to Hyper_Eye (Reply #69)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:12 PM

lexw (804 posts)

73. agreed

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:23 PM

defacto7 (3,616 posts)

76. What does "them" mean?

Last edited Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:27 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

You mean the 10 years we have wanted? It hasn't really been stated... I don't think.????

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:29 PM

lexw (804 posts)

78. Romney just released his 2011 returns

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19682947#

Reply to this post

Response to lexw (Reply #78)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:26 PM

emilyg (22,742 posts)

92. Yes - read that on aol.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:41 PM

leftylauren (51 posts)

80. Wiki leaks?

Is that guy still holed up in the embassy in London? Where is he when you need him

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:49 PM

landolfi (93 posts)

84. Wouldn't it be better

to keep poking him with the "he's hiding tax returns" issue anyway? Death by a thousand cuts. It's further support for showing his pervasive evasiveness, his utter fear of being found out for what he really is. As others have pointed out, he's hiding ostensibly taxable $ that wouldn't show up anyway.

Reply to this post

Response to landolfi (Reply #84)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:41 PM

grasswire (36,876 posts)

94. it must be excruciating torture for Romney

Dems know. He must know they know.

But he doesn't know when the house of cards will fall.

Drip, drip, drip.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:05 PM

Tom Rinaldo (14,971 posts)

88. That would explain the release of Romney's 20 year average tax rate today

Last edited Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:05 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

They are trying to get out ahead of the story by giving his tax returns the best spin they can manage now. The average is a bogus figure because it does not take into account his actual income Romney made for each year. 5% taxes paid on $20 million one year could be averaged against 22% paid on one million earned another year to come up with "an average of 13.5%" for example. Besides, I figure they released "averages" for 20 years BECAUSE if they only released averages for the last 10 years the "average" would be too low.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:44 PM

kentuck (66,798 posts)

95. But would it be legal for them to release them??

I don't know?

Reply to this post

Response to kentuck (Reply #95)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:52 PM

grasswire (36,876 posts)

97. no need to release them.

Just the pressure on Romney is enough. Never knowing when that hammer might fall.

Bush had some similar hammers: the DUI, the AWOL, the community service for what is believed to be a drug charge. He rode them out. Can Romney ride this out?

Reply to this post

Response to kentuck (Reply #95)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:50 AM

DCBob (14,996 posts)

124. Anonymous mailing to Wash Post.

I doubt they would do it unless it looked like the election was going to be close.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 06:54 PM

Logical (8,456 posts)

98. Nothing against you, but I call BS on this story.

Reply to this post

Response to Logical (Reply #98)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:13 PM

grasswire (36,876 posts)

101. machts nichts

It means nothing to me what you think. I have no investment in this. I am merely telling what I was told. If I could tell you who told me, you would surely have a different opinion because the reputation of my friend is without flaw; known Democrat, proven investigative author. But I can't.

So we will see. We may never know if Dems have them. Think what you like.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Reply #101)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:30 PM

Logical (8,456 posts)

104. Not calling your side of this BS but maybe whoever told your friend the story. But....

I really hope it is true!! Exciting for sure!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Reply #101)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 08:59 AM

onenote (22,031 posts)

128. Why can't you disclose who told you?

Last edited Sat Sep 22, 2012, 09:01 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Are we supposed to believe that this person told you, and you alone, about this? No one else knows? No one else is reporting that the Democrats were given copies of the returns? Just you.

Gonna need more than that to make this a credible story, imo.

Reply to this post

Response to onenote (Reply #128)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 01:29 PM

grasswire (36,876 posts)

134. shrug

Believe what you like. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just sharing a bit of a conversation with a connected person, an insider in the circle of D.C. investigative journos.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Reply #101)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:46 PM

CoffeeCat (19,429 posts)

144. If I may ask...

...did your friend give you any indication of what the next step would be?

Do they plan on doing something or sitting on these returns?

Also, is it widely known in DC circles that this is the case? Do most Dems/Republicans/press members understand that those tax returns are in the hands of the Dems and that it's not looking good for Romney?

If you can't say, I understand.

Thanks for giving us the info that you did.

Reply to this post

Response to Logical (Reply #98)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:14 PM

Lightbulb_on (315 posts)

102. Released his 2011 return...

... and some combined stats for the years before.

http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/09/note-trustee-brad-malt

Per the release...

Regarding the newly-filed 2011 Tax Return:

In 2011, the Romneys paid $1,935,708 in taxes on $13,696,951 in mostly investment income.
The Romneys’ effective tax rate for 2011 was 14.1%.
The Romneys donated $4,020,772 to charity in 2011, amounting to nearly 30% of their income.
The Romneys claimed a deduction for $2.25 million of those charitable contributions.
The Romneys’ generous charitable donations in 2011 would have significantly reduced their tax obligation for the year. The Romneys thus limited their deduction of charitable contributions to conform to the Governor's statement in August, based upon the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13% in income taxes in each of the last 10 years.

Regarding the PWC letter covering the Romneys’ tax filings over 20 years, from 1990 – 2009:

In each year during the entire 20-year period, the Romneys owed both state and federal income taxes.
Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%.
Over the entire 20-year period, the lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66%.
Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.
Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 08:22 PM

Aerows (14,605 posts)

108. Romney's tax returns

Are so complex even God couldn't lift his deductions any higher.

But even still. How dare we question such a man that we are so lucky to have running his own campaign into bankruptcy, his own wife into shrieking at the hardship she is enduring, and a man that tries so hard, he self-tans? He's a self-made up man.

Reply to this post

Response to Aerows (Reply #108)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:14 PM

Indpndnt (2,311 posts)

115. He is a gift, that's for sure.

And he just keeps on giving!

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:16 PM

Honeycombe8 (18,256 posts)

110. Nah. McCain didn't get the FULL returns, did he? And for how many years?

This sounds like wishful thinking. But I wish....

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 04:29 AM

DisabledAmerican (452 posts)

119. means nothing

If they do not use it

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:01 AM

Doctor_J (26,571 posts)

122. Probably waiting until facepaintgate goes away

Or when the Big Media starts campaigning for Willard again. Could be any day now.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 08:49 AM

sellitman (9,314 posts)

127. At the rate Rmoney is going we may never need these anyway

Why kick up a shit storm if President Obama is already kicking his ass?

Running up the score isn't wise.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:35 AM

ryan_cats (912 posts)

130. Isn't that illegal?

Last edited Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:38 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Isn't that illegal? If I gave you the Mona Lisa I just stole, you would be an accessory after the fact and so are these guys if true.

We just need to keep that drumbeat going, "Release the returns, release the returns." I think it might even be better if he doesn't.

The President can ask in the debate, I've released my returns, your VP has released his, where are yours?

<crickets?

Didn't Nixon get it in the shorts for something like this, it was either him or Agnew and Agnew was forced to resign over tax problems.

Perish the thought but if Rmoney won, it would be awesome to see him busted for tax fraud. While it would be funny, it would also leave Rmoney's little puppy in charge.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 01:15 PM

femrap (13,418 posts)

133. ...

Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:53 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

$$$$$

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:30 PM

CoffeeCat (19,429 posts)

138. I think Reid has had them for a long time...

...don't you?

I think that is how Reid was able to make such confident statements regarding those returns.

Makes you wonder if Reid and the Dems will ever play this card, if they haven't all ready.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:35 PM

Buzz Clik (29,680 posts)

141. We have been down this road before. I will not hold my breath.

Reply to this post

Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #141)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 03:49 PM

ryan_cats (912 posts)

151. Yeppers, we'll get them in 24 business hours...

Yeppers, we'll get them in 24 business hours...

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:40 PM

cherokeeprogressive (15,314 posts)

143. Surely you're not the ONLY person your friend told, and someone had to tell HIM.

There would literally be hundreds of people who know this, but there is no mention of it anywhere in the media. If it were true, it would be the most explosive information to come out in years, but there's no mention anywhere?

My favorite line from the RoboCop movie: I'll buy THAT for a dollar!

Reply to this post

Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #143)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 11:04 PM

onenote (22,031 posts)

158. +1

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:48 PM

Egnever (12,021 posts)

145. Of course they do

But they cant use them.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:48 PM

aint_no_life_nowhere (18,944 posts)

146. I don't think Romney can take another major fuck up

One more and we might not even see a debate unless a sub is brought in. Romney has painted himself into a corner with the returns. If it shows that he failed to pay even a small portion of his income in taxes over the last ten years it will now be worse than if he'd revealed this from the start. With this 2011 tax return where he pays more than he's supposed to, it will look like a cover up, a manipulation, an attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people, an attempt to con the people and defraud them. I don't think he'll be able to survive that shit storm, that final nail in the blood-sucking vampire's coffin.

Reply to this post

Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #146)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:33 PM

bluestate10 (8,667 posts)

157. Romney made one Friday with the taxes that he did release.

The specter of hiding big issues are all over the releases. The interesting issue is that the Accountants that swore to the accuracy of the documents Romney released have legal, criminal liabilities if their swore to a set of lies, knowing the lies existed. Reid doubled down on his claims on Friday after Romney's release. Reid isn't dumb, he has reliable information, possibly from his Bain investor source.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 03:21 PM

AllyCat (7,557 posts)

148. I hope this comes to pass.

RMoney as a candidate, a "business"man, and a person is so corrupt, something has to get Americans to think about him and not vote for him. Or send him to jail. That would also be cool.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 03:30 PM

Kablooie (8,940 posts)

149. Romney himself made the taxes a major issue so I hope so.

If he had released them immediately there would have been some sniping and then the issue would fade away into the background.

Now, if they are released, it will be the end of him.
(Or the second end of him since the end has probably already occurred.)

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 03:46 PM

former9thward (6,632 posts)

150. Another internet rumor people are falling for.

I'm sure they will be released in "24 business hours".

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:09 PM

sherylkaye (41 posts)

153. This is great news because

it's bad enough that Romney only realeased 2 years but even worse is fact he'd manipulate them to try to fool the American citizenry. We'd be in great trouble... danger even if he were President of the United States. I can't figure the dream world he's living in.

Reply to this post

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 11:35 PM

Mopar151 (6,111 posts)

159. What happened to the computers from the McCain campaign?

if they were imported from a memory stick (USB drive) or a CD Rom, it would be logical to make a "working copy" to the hard disc. My hacker buddy sez that there are programs (Norton "Ghost"?) that can see anything that was ever on a hard drive.

Reply to this post

General Discussion (Forum)

Dems have Romney's tax returns.

1. Really? Hmm...

2. I hope so.

3. Any idea how long they've had them?

4. Wasn't there also a "Larry Flynt Bombshell" report last night?

20. you mean other than his $1mm pledge?

25. Yes, I thought there was a thread last night about some news...

31. I saw that too.

33. Well at least I know I wasn't seeing things. lol

46. This thread ...

47. That's it - thank you!

5. I sure hope they do. They don't have to show them. Just ask him about specific items during

6. Is that how Reid knows

27. Reid got it from a Bain investor

38. GOOD, THEN WE WON'T NEED

44. Yes a stake!

55. I'll take mine medium rare.

82. Paul Ryan's the vampire, check out that widow's peak

40. I collect nesting dolls! That's a great idea!

60. LOL!

65. That sounds like the new form of trickle down

74. Twisted!

112. LOLOL!

123. Yzma? Is that you?

136. My spinach puffs!

139. It and "Lilo and Stitch" are Disney sleeper classics

147. I agree about all of those movies...

137. I prefer what someone else here said last week...

61. Well, we know that he *did* pay in two of the last ten years. So, how valid is the rest of

75. Actually, what we do KNOW is that he manipulated his 2011 tax return...

83. Thank you for your concern.

129. No need to worry about my *concern*. What you need to worry about is the

160. Correct...

86. Voter ID fraud bullshit is the only thing we should worry about

135. Reid is usually very careful in what he says.

152. But, wasn't that after Obama said they had the list of names with off-shore accounts?

131. If they do...It won't be before middle October. n/t

7. Hmmm...

142. Yes, and clearly he played a part...

8. hmmm..

11. Welcome to DU!

17. Why do they exclude 2009?

21. McCain asked for Romney's tax returns when he was considering him for VP

39. Gotcha!

96. 2009 was the tax amnesty year for people with illegal swiss accounts

77. Welcome!

9. Here comes the October surprise

126. Haha! Perfect!

10. How long have they had them?

12. This is as I've suspected. Harry Reid would NOT be blowing smoke.

43. Nope. Harry was a boxer in his youth.

48. Good analogy, I agree!

87. And, if it IS true (ohplease!ohplease!ohplease!), Reid looks like a very wise man.

13. Oh MY !

14. Hence this last ditch punt

18. I would think that if he knew the Dems

37. He can't - he'd rather be taken down

15. Interesting that the Repubbies are outing their own Romnoid Rat

19. Looks like the repugs are running away from Mr Goldfinger himself

24. that picture if very scary to me...I can't look at it

81. It's interesting how that really looks a lot like Romney.

111. Willard and his friend Bain...

16. let james carter the 3rd release them n/t

22. No....Roselyn ! That would be the ultimate - a "wo-man" (said like Seinfeld says Neu-man"

23. Long forms? We are only accepting long form tax returns.

26. LOL..Funniest line of the day

28. DUzy

35. I doubt whether he ever used form 1040EZ. Nowhere to put the Cayman Island accounts!

29. Heavy breathing, no sources

30. If someone did leak the returns, they may have broken the law. n/t

36. Which probably means

89. but they could just make copies and throw them to the wind

42. If they worked at the IRS, yes. If it's someone Romney voluntarily gave the returns to,

50. Bingo. If Willard voluntarily gave his tax returns to

70. The worst that could happen...

54. It's interesting. When someone gives a candidate returns, you would think they would get them

67. How many people do you guess

118. chances are they were on a usb drive.

64. confidentiality applies to everyone-IRS or no.

71. You underestimate

61. Well, we know that he did pay in two of the last ten years. So, how valid is the rest of

129. No need to worry about my concern. What you need to worry about is the