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DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:59 PM Sep 2012

To those that would censor Free Speech

I understand that nobody likes the way the First Amendment has become a haven for parasites, weasels and other vermin. Religious bigots in particular use it as a means fo trying to defend their power. Yes, I have read some of Canada's law that seems to be able to shut down the Terry Jones types.

However, I offer this to show why I do NOT support limiting free speech.

Go down the line of every important figure that fought for rights, whether it is Martin Luther King, or Margaret Sanger, Eugene Debs or Thomas Paine. You will find one thread in common; every one of them had opponents that accused them of dangerous, hateful speech. It would be easy to write this off as some subterfuge by powerful White Men, but the truth is something a bit nastier. Many people did indeed feel threatened, intimidated, and degraded by the words that reformers say.

The folks in Dixie did not just feel offended by MLK, they felt he was threatening their culture and indeed, their lives. As we all know, those ideas are still very much alive, not just when the GOP calls Obama a monkey.

Many men, and yes, many women, felt Susan B Anthony and Margaret Sanger were a threat to womanhood itself. If you think that is dead, watch the conservative lady pundits, that, with a straight face, and in a blazer, talk as if women's very right to vote is a bad thing (yes Ann Coulter, that was aimed at you.)

And Islam is no different than any religion, it means it has great people who really do make an effort to feed hungry people, improve their lot, and at least live decent lives, it also has people that would kill, just as it's older sisters Christianity and Judaism do. Religion always plays by the same rules, which is why later faiths like Mormonism or Scientology tend to fit into the same patterns. However, societies must make sure it plays by rules. At first, that would lend credence to the idea of limting religious speech. However, that plays right into a major strategy of religion, the martyr game: the more your repress a faith, the more it tends to grow, and the less it fears the goverment.

And here we get into why limiting free speech is exactly what we do not want to do: if you limit free speech because religious folk get violent, they will get more violent. You are reinforcing the behavior, as surely as feeding a monkey in a skinner box does. If people see that we react a certain way because people get violent, then others will want to imitate the success of the rioters. Already, in Europe, people cheered Anders Brevik, because they felt he was only doing the same sort of violence that they think Muslims do. Of course he was wrong, but the fact remains that we cannot let people think we will yield to violence, because, sure enough, once the match hits the dry kindling, the blaze will keep burning until every bit of fuel is reduced to ash.

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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To those that would censor Free Speech (Original Post) DonCoquixote Sep 2012 OP
Free speech/censorship Bluefin Tuna Sep 2012 #1
I've had vids kicked off of youtube... lame54 Sep 2012 #2
Free Speach tama Sep 2012 #3
What if... RobertEarl Sep 2012 #4
first off DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #5
Censor violence, not free speech. porphyrian Sep 2012 #6
 

Bluefin Tuna

(54 posts)
1. Free speech/censorship
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:02 PM
Sep 2012

A lot of times, people who want some form of censorship on free speech simply want free speech for their own side, but censorship for their opponents.

There are some who would want offensive speech against homosexuals, atheists, Muslims, etc. to be prohibited, but how would these same people react if offensive speech against Christianity, Creationists, etc. were also banned?

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
3. Free Speach
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:31 PM
Sep 2012

1st Amendment does not protect fraud and treachery.

US Dollar and Federal Reserve could be sued on the ground that their promise (USD) is mail fraud and treachery. Pyramid scam and Mafia racket. That violation of Free Speach is the "haven for parasites, weasels and other vermin".

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
4. What if...
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:37 PM
Sep 2012

...I wanted to burn a cross on your front yard? Would you fully support me?

What if when you came out I also started screaming lies about you and your family and neighbors?

Is there no line that you would defend and say: Enough?

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
5. first off
Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:10 PM
Sep 2012

burnign a cross on my Frony yard is not Free speeck, it is property damage, as in "get the hell off my property."

As far as lies, no law short of libel will actually stop you from doing that.

However, I know that whatever means I use to stifle you can and will be used against me, so any attempt to censor short of libel would dig my own grave as well, especially as good churchy folk would take notice, use that against me, and make sure I joined you in the jail cell.

More imprtantly, let's reverse roles...do you really think that the religious folks would not cry "I am offended" whenever you speak, some of you would consider the very fact you are on DU offensive, as they would consider this a hate board against Christians. The fact is we cannot draw lines, because if you are content to to do that, it is only a matter of time before the mob steps over that line, goaded by the same people of all faiths that hate us here at DU simply because of what WE ARE.

 

porphyrian

(18,530 posts)
6. Censor violence, not free speech.
Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:16 PM
Sep 2012

Say what you want, but if you riot, you're breaking the law, and if you intentionally incite a riot, you're breaking the law. There are a whole lot of things people say that insult, offend, disgust and infuriate me, but I control myself. Besides, this isn't just about republicans.

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