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Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:25 PM

 

Why must we turn the other cheek?

When Islamic extremists from Saudi Arabia slamed two planes into our buildings we must not paint the entire religion as bad but when one idiot pastor publishes a stupid video the vast majority of Muslims in the ME want to judge our entire country on this one idiot.

When are they going to join us in the 21st century? When is Islam going to have its reformation movement like the protestants had? I know there is more going on that meets the eye but I doubt the vast majority of people in those riots are part of some conspiracy plot.

I just wish we'd get out of that entire area, forthwith.

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Arrow 116 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why must we turn the other cheek? (Original post)
Missycim Sep 2012 OP
Vincardog Sep 2012 #1
Aerows Sep 2012 #69
Vincardog Sep 2012 #115
Aerows Sep 2012 #116
bhikkhu Sep 2012 #2
Missycim Sep 2012 #5
cali Sep 2012 #8
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #12
cali Sep 2012 #21
Missycim Sep 2012 #16
cali Sep 2012 #23
Missycim Sep 2012 #27
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #32
JNelson6563 Sep 2012 #46
pitbullgirl1965 Sep 2012 #75
Pisces Sep 2012 #103
bhikkhu Sep 2012 #55
cali Sep 2012 #57
99Forever Sep 2012 #65
treestar Sep 2012 #90
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #111
RegieRocker Sep 2012 #106
RobertEarl Sep 2012 #3
Missycim Sep 2012 #10
cali Sep 2012 #13
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #35
deutsey Sep 2012 #96
cali Sep 2012 #4
Missycim Sep 2012 #6
cali Sep 2012 #9
Missycim Sep 2012 #11
cali Sep 2012 #15
Missycim Sep 2012 #37
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #53
Odin2005 Sep 2012 #94
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #97
polly7 Sep 2012 #99
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #42
JNelson6563 Sep 2012 #49
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #64
bhikkhu Sep 2012 #68
antiquie Sep 2012 #17
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #24
Missycim Sep 2012 #47
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #52
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #54
uppityperson Sep 2012 #59
pitbullgirl1965 Sep 2012 #79
HereSince1628 Sep 2012 #33
treestar Sep 2012 #91
lunatica Sep 2012 #7
Missycim Sep 2012 #14
antiquie Sep 2012 #18
cali Sep 2012 #19
Missycim Sep 2012 #20
cali Sep 2012 #22
RegieRocker Sep 2012 #107
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #29
Missycim Sep 2012 #48
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #66
Iggo Sep 2012 #87
treestar Sep 2012 #92
PotatoChip Sep 2012 #26
Missycim Sep 2012 #31
PotatoChip Sep 2012 #36
Missycim Sep 2012 #40
lunatica Sep 2012 #30
JVS Sep 2012 #25
cynatnite Sep 2012 #28
Missycim Sep 2012 #34
cynatnite Sep 2012 #38
RegieRocker Sep 2012 #108
treestar Sep 2012 #93
patrice Sep 2012 #39
cali Sep 2012 #51
patrice Sep 2012 #76
BarackTheVote Sep 2012 #41
moriah Sep 2012 #44
moriah Sep 2012 #43
HiPointDem Sep 2012 #45
zellie Sep 2012 #50
kestrel91316 Sep 2012 #56
cali Sep 2012 #61
kestrel91316 Sep 2012 #81
cali Sep 2012 #86
99Forever Sep 2012 #70
kestrel91316 Sep 2012 #82
99Forever Sep 2012 #85
Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #58
cali Sep 2012 #60
backscatter712 Sep 2012 #71
Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #72
cali Sep 2012 #73
backscatter712 Sep 2012 #74
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #78
Aerows Sep 2012 #62
Chorophyll Sep 2012 #63
Aerows Sep 2012 #67
spanone Sep 2012 #77
seabeyond Sep 2012 #80
Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #83
ibegurpard Sep 2012 #84
EdwardKingSolomon Sep 2012 #88
treestar Sep 2012 #89
Odin2005 Sep 2012 #95
polly7 Sep 2012 #102
sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #109
Democracyinkind Sep 2012 #112
polly7 Sep 2012 #98
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #100
polly7 Sep 2012 #104
DJ13 Sep 2012 #101
tjdee Sep 2012 #105
Democracyinkind Sep 2012 #110
Zalatix Sep 2012 #114
Zalatix Sep 2012 #113

Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:29 PM

1. MAYBE because we are better than those who won't?

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:46 PM

69. You and I both are not better than a Muslim

We believe differently, that's it. Unless you are in the military, you don't see Muslims that aren't in the military as enemies, period.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #69)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 04:29 PM

115. Did you see a word about Muslims in my post? I answered the question asked.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #115)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 09:23 PM

116. I think I read butter

God I'm sorry, I'm tired. I may have read linens.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:30 PM

2. The vast majority of muslims are not rioting

they're at home or at work, upset as we are about the stupid video and the needless violence.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:40 PM

5. I have not done a detailed

 

search but aside from the govt of Libya, where are the vast majority of Islamic groups denouncing the violence?

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Response to Missycim (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:43 PM

8. where are the vast majorities of American Christian groups

denouncing the drone killings of civilians that happen frequently. Have YOU personally apologized to the people of Iraq for invading their country under false pretenses and killing hundreds of thousands? No? Better get right to it, Missy dear. Like how about in this vile thread of yours?

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:47 PM

12. +1000%

And thank you for being one of the few people who keeps trying!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:52 PM

21. thanks, sabrina

back at you.

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:49 PM

16. I could be wrong

 

but I don't think the drone attacks are religious based.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #16)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:54 PM

23. wait a minute: you actually think that makes it better? really? wow.

so only ill deeds done in the name of religion are bad. Got it.

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:56 PM

27. if they rioted over

 

drone strikes then I would be behind them but this is different.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #16)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:00 PM

32. You haven't answered the question. Several people have asked you now

if YOU apologized for the Christian Crusade led by GWB into a country that never did anything to us, and killed and maimed and tortured untold numbers of their citizens.

It's a very simple question. The Fundy Christians were cheering on that vile, brutal attack on an innocent population. Did YOU apologize to those people?

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:10 PM

46. I am agreeing with so many of your posts today!

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:19 PM

75. Word!!

This X 1000

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:00 AM

103. There sure are a lot of bullshit threads tonight about Islam.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:25 PM

55. If each individual had to denounce the violence of a group they somehow belonged to

at every incident, that would be a full-time job for everyone in the world.

As I said, most muslims are at home or at work, the same as us, feeling sad or upset or discouraged about the stupid video and the senseless violence.

I don't feel like I need to apologize every time a christian does or says something stupid. If a muslim somewhere does something stupid to a christian, I don't feel like every muslim I meet on the street needs to apologize to me.

The whole line of thinking makes no sense and sounds like bigotry.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #55)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:30 PM

57. +1

I was grasping to say just that. thanks for saying it.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:40 PM

65. I'll apologize in advance for any act of violence ...

... committed by any other atheist in the name of that which doesn't exist. That make you feel better lady? Or should we atheists get together and write up a group apology for you?

Do you even begin to realize exactly how utterly ridiculous your STUPID demand is?

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Response to Missycim (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:25 PM

90. It does not make the news

ordinary people living their lives does not make the news.

You play right into their hands. THEY are more evil than us.

They want us at war. You play along.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #5)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 02:46 PM

111. The vast majority of Muslims ...

... are neither Arab nor Middle Eastern. FYI.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:08 AM

106. You need to read slower

 

The op said the vast majority of people in the riots not the vast majority of people were rioting

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:36 PM

3. That is some bigoted OP, Missy

Sad to say too many in this country feel as you do.

Other than that I have no words.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #3)


Response to Missycim (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:47 PM

13. I'm sick unto vomiting of anti-Muslim bigots. Period.

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Response to cali (Reply #13)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:01 PM

35. You and me both. These kinds of posts, and there seem to be so many of them

would be better suited to Pamela Geller's blog imho.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:34 PM

96. Exactly...the OP needs to get some education

There isn't one monolithic Islam (Wahhabism on through to Sufism), just as there isn't one monolithic Christianity (which ranges from violent whackos to self-sacrificing pacifists) or one monolithic Buddhism (Mahayana...Theraveda...Zen...Tibetan...), etc.

Once we develop an understanding of these differences within and between religions, then we can speak intelligently about them.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:39 PM

4. bigoted dog shit is what YOU are spewing.

can it.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:42 PM

6. I am sorry if the truth is

 

too much for you to take, but where is the outcry from Islamic groups over this? Why is America getting slammed instead of this one man?

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Response to Missycim (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:44 PM

9. truth? It figures that you can't tell fact from opinion, sweetheart.

Anyone with a few functional brain cells knows that this isn't just over the stupid film.

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Response to cali (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:47 PM

11. So they didn't

 

riot iover a few stupid Comics some years ago? Or riot over the same stupid pastor who threatened to burn some korans?

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Response to Missycim (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:49 PM

15. It's about much more than cartoons or burning Korans.

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Response to cali (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:03 PM

37. No it really isn't

 

even if we where not in the ME they would be very upset over the actions of this idiot preacher.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:22 PM

53. Are you aware of history at all? Can you point out where Muslims

who have been around forever, cared one bit about the US BEFORE we began interfering in their countries?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #53)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:26 PM

94. You are souding like Ward Churchill calling the 9/11 victims "little Eichmanns"

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #94)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 11:42 PM

97. Save the intended insults for someone else. They are wasted on me.

I asked a question, if you don't have the answer then say so. Hurling insults instead of giving a rational answer, says to me that the answer is 'no, they were not killing Americans before we became the new Imperial Colonialists policing the entire world, killing people and torturing them and stealing their resources. We are not the first Empire to do this. And we probably won't be the last. The sad thing is that those who founded this democracy warned against these foreign adventures. Empires never last long.

Every action creates a reaction. We don't belong in their countries, period.

They would not belong here either and if they invaded this country and killed a million Americans, what would you do? Welcome them?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #53)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 11:50 PM

99. Exactly, Sabrina. nt.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:06 PM

42. And the Christian Fundies led by George Bush didn't start a war in

Iraq and Ann Coulter didn't say we should 'convert them all or kill them'?? Did YOU speak out against the use of the Christian Religion to justify killing all those people.

Pat Robertson ever heard of him? And did you forget that our Christian Fundies were bringing Bibles and Food to Iraq intending to offer them food, IF they would take lessons in Christianity?

Did you know that the founder of Blackwater, who murdered Iraqis in cold blood, is a rabid Christian Fundy?

And how about some of our Generals? Would you like me to post some links so you see how offended our Christian Fundies were by people who did nothing at all to them?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #42)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:13 PM

49. And Bush himself called it a "crusade"!

I mean, wtf?

Good post.

Julie

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #49)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:37 PM

64. Yes, and he said when asked if he had asked for advice from Bush Sr, his father

before deciding to go to Iraq, he said no, he had asked his Heavenly Father, and I guess his heavenly father told him to go kill Muslims.

And we talk about other people's religious problems.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:45 PM

68. Every time you use "they", you imply all muslims

which is the whole problem.

The carelessness of referring not to individual behaviors of people, but to the (imaginary) group behaviors of a whole class of people - is a mental habit that comes from and leads to a specific type of bigotry.

"They" didn't riot over a few stupid comics. Some extremists rioted, a small fraction of a much larger people.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:49 PM

17. All you need to do is

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Response to Missycim (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:55 PM

24. One million dead Iraqis. Where was the outrage when we used the tragic events

of 9/11 to go to a country that never did anything to us, kill hundreds of thousand of men, women and children, torture and rape and imprison them in their own country, destroy their infrastructure, cover their environment with DU which has resulted in generations of deformed babies and stole their oil.

Do you think maybe they might have a little something to complain about too?

Why did Iraq get blamed for something Saudis were responsible for?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:11 PM

47. What does Iraq have

 

to do with Libya?(who we helped liberate) or Egypt? (who we have given billions of dollars too)

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Response to Missycim (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:19 PM

52. Thanks, that is what I thought. I take it you supported that massive crime in

Iraq then. Did you know that most Democrats did NOT support it, certainly no one on DU did.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:24 PM

54. Weren't you angry at Muslims? So now it's just Libya. I see you don't want to answer

the questions about the Muslims we killed in Iraq. I am assuming you were a supporter of that illegal and brutal crime against humanity, but especially against Muslims. Am I correct? You supported the invasion of Iraq?

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Response to Missycim (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:32 PM

59. Is this a serious question? Why would someone in Libya be upset about what the US did in Iraq?

Why would anyone in Egypt be upset with what the US did in Iraq?

Are you serious? I mean, seriously?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:28 PM

79. A + comment Sabrina

It's shocking how little so called liberals talk about this. I just mentioned this on the Daily Kos.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:00 PM

33. Oh say what is truth? The objective reality seems to be that

that sociological phenomena related to in-group preferences lead to ironies and double standards involved in justifying in-group actions by the in-group.

Of course, in-groups generalize their negative attitudes to all members of the outgroup, that's one of the roles of out-groups...to reference what the in-group isn't.

Your questioning when they are going to become us is simply even more of more of in-group preferencing.

What other objective reality is there besides everyone alive living in the same contemporary moments on this planet?

"They" (a pronoun always implying the target is an out-group/non-us/not me) are going to act like Protestants when they become Protestants. If you haven't noticed slam has a number of sects suggesting that schisms do occur within Islam, just as they occur in Christianity.

Maybe we just don't acknowledge significant reforms in Muslim history?

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Response to Missycim (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:27 PM

91. Does it ever occur to you they don't put that on the friggin' news?

Did you see the posts here the other day with the Libyans carrying signs saying they were not behind the killing of the ambassador? Or if you were did you were claiming it was photoshopped.

Where are you to protest the drone attacks in Afghanistan? You think that if anyone protests that here they make the news over there?

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:42 PM

7. A very tiny fraction of Muslims are rioting

A mere block away from them life goes on like nothing is happenings. You may not mean to sound like it but you're statement is bigoted.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:47 PM

14. No thats MY POINT

 

THE PEOPLE ARE DOING NOTHING!!!! which is just as bad as RIOTING.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:50 PM

18. I invite you

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Response to Missycim (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:51 PM

19. First of all, it's not remotely the same. Not in the same ballpark, not even close, genius.

Secondly, what do you want them to do? Do you want them to endanger their lives to prove to the likes of YOU, that they're righteous?

So sickening. So ugly American.

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:52 PM

20. No I want them to do

 

what I would do if my beliefs were used in such a manner

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Response to Missycim (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:53 PM

22. you don't know what you'd do. Sorry, but you don't, and it all depends on th circumstances involved

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Response to cali (Reply #22)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:16 AM

107. That is hogwash

 

If the atheists would make fun of Allah the way they do Jesus then maybe that statement wouldn't be full of it.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:57 PM

29. Did you speak out and apologize to the people of Iraq when George Bush

who actually represented you, illegally and wrongfully destroyed their country and their people? Did you like your country being used in such a manner?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #29)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:13 PM

48. I am very sorry

 

but you don't know what I protested and what I didn't, I just didn't think I had to list what i was outraged against first before commenting on this subject. For that I am very sorry

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Response to Missycim (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:43 PM

66. If I knew what your position was I would not have asked. Why so sensitive

about a simple question that I have been asked and answered many times?

You don't have to list anything, but if we cannot judge whether or not you are consistent regarding your principles, we will take what you say with a grain of salt. That is up to you.

Iow, if you supported the Criminal War in Iraq which killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims and was called a Crusade by GWB, then you have zero cause to complain about what anyone else does.

I opposed the War in Iraq and I oppose all violence, because I know that violence leads to more violence. If you kill someone's children and we did, tragically, you can have a reasonable expectation that they are going to be pretty upset with you.


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Response to Missycim (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:56 PM

87. Well, did you?

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Response to Missycim (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:30 PM

92. I have a feeling you were perfectly all right with killing people

to make them pay for 911 because they were of the same religion and ethnic group. Your whole point here seems to be to justify hating the muslims.

If you were Israeli you'd be blaming the Palestinian as evil. If you were Palestinian you'd be blaming the Jews as evil. If you were Catholic in Northern Ireland you 'd claim the Protestants were evil. If you were Protestant, the Catholics. You are one of those people who the warmongers manipulate.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:56 PM

26. Nothing?

"The people are doing nothing!!!!"


I suggest you check out post #17

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:00 PM

31. Yes I saw those pictures

 

I was referring more of why they are letting Islam be hijacked that is all I wondered.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #31)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:02 PM

36. The people holding those signs

were rejecting the hijacking of Islam.

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:05 PM

40. Maybe hopefully

 

its the start of change, I'd like to hope but I am not allowed to cause I am an American.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:57 PM

30. Plenty of them have done what you insist they aren't doing

There were plenty of photos of people gathering with signs in English apologizing for the deaths just a couple of days ago. And it was Muslims who got the American Ambassador to the hospital, although he wasn't able to be saved.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but maybe you are a bigot after all.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:55 PM

25. "Turn the other cheek" is a funny way of formulating invading two countries.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:56 PM

28. So, you are blaming an entire religion for the actions of a few?

You do know that religion consists over a billion people, don't you? Or is it easier to blame the religion?

I think I'll start blaming Christianity for the actions of a few. It won't be any different than what you are doing.

And please...don't say that's not what your doing. You are. Your post says it very plainly.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #28)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:01 PM

34. I am not blamming the entire

 

religion, all I ask is why they are letting their religion to be hijacked by the crazies, just like a lot of people do when a Christian whacko kills a Dr tiller.

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Response to Missycim (Reply #34)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:03 PM

38. Proof that you are...

When is Islam going to have its reformation movement like the protestants had?

You are blaming the religion. Denying it makes you look silly.

on edit: Also, it's not even the vast majority that's doing the protesting. It's a slim majority in the ME who are protesting. Do not slander the ME or those who live in it.

If you cannot recognize how bigoted your post is, then you can't see it within yourself.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #38)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:19 AM

108. Another one that can't read

 

I doubt the vast majority of people in those riots are part of some conspiracy plot. The ops exact words. NO WHERE DID SHE STATE THE VAST MAJORITY WERE RIOTING!!!

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Response to Missycim (Reply #34)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:33 PM

93. You are holding them to the standard of their lowest common denominator

While apparently not doing the same for Christians. Were you out there loudly protesting the Iraq War? The abortion clinic bombings?

People have to live their lives, why should they have to satisfy you that they don't support the extremists of their religion? You don't demand that of Christians.

And to top it all off, Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek. That is Christian doctrine! It amazes me that they think they should not have to follow it.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:04 PM

39. You are asking GOOD questions. Some of us are asking these same questions of ourselves,

ever since 9/11.

We should not "turn the other cheek" BUT violence shows itself to be completely DYSFUNCTIONAL as a response. We shouldn't turn the other cheek by engaging OURSELVES and Islam in the questions you ask in OP.

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Response to patrice (Reply #39)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:19 PM

51. Those aren't good questions. hell, they aren't even questions

merely rhetoric that is used to slam and slur millions and millions of people.

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Response to cali (Reply #51)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:21 PM

76. Golden Rule radical here: if you can ask questions of others, that gives them the same

right to ask the same questions of you.

That's called a conversation.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:05 PM

41. The ME news media said the movie was

backed by the US gov't and extremely popular among US audiences. How many Right Wing Nuts protest based on the lies perpetuated by Faux News? So their protests don't usually dissolve into violence, but that's just because they prefer to do their acts of domestic terrorism lone-wolf style

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Response to BarackTheVote (Reply #41)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:09 PM

44. State-run newscasts are scary things indeed.

Ever watch Mosaic: News from the Middle East?

It's extremely enlightening to see the difference between what free media organizations in the ME and the state-run broadcasts describe.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:07 PM

43. While I agree that we should get out of that area, the Arab Spring is the beginning of a reformation

The fact that the vast majority of people protesting have NOT been violent is something you seem to be missing. You also seem to be forgetting just how many people were killed during the Protestant Reformation, and not just by "Bloody Mary" or other Catholic monarchs.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:09 PM

45. islam has had several reformation movements. one of the reason for the rise of fundamentalism

 

in the ME has been US actions.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:19 PM

50. Do you believe in Multiculturalism ?

 

Nt

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:29 PM

56. We lose the moral high ground if we reduce ourselves to their

level of violence and discord.

You ARE aware that the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) has served mankind pretty effin' well over the millennia, right??

And every first grader knows two wrongs don't make a right. You have been listening to too many immature people if you thing acting like the Islamic fundamentalists is going to help us or anyone else.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #56)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:33 PM

61. What makes you think we're on moral high ground?

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Response to cali (Reply #61)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:38 PM

81. What makes you think two wrongs EVER make a right?

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #81)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:50 PM

86. say what, hon?

I don't think that and I never said it.

I did say that we don't have any moral high ground to stand on. That's not even close to saying or thinking that two wrongs make a right.

Pathetic attempt at whatthefuckever.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #56)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:55 PM

70. Oh my!

I didn't realize that killing unsuspecting people with drone strikes is somehow being "on the moral high ground."


Wowzer, a learning experience for me.


(Is it only with "Good Christians" at the controls when it's still on the "moral high ground?")

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #70)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:39 PM

82. So we should compound the error by becoming MORE aggressive?

Pathetic. Just pathetic.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #82)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:46 PM

85. That's what you gleaned from my response?



Really?

No shit?

WOW!

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:30 PM

58. Speaking on behalf of every American Muslim

Fuck You. My neighbors up the street are Muslim, and they have in every sense "joined us in the 21st Century." In fact, every Muslim that I know deplores the sort of violence that you see in the Middle East, as do many (if not most) of the Muslims who actually LIVE in the Middle East.

And when you consider U.S. policy toward the region -- then and today -- one could ask when WE are going to join the 21st century. Predator drone missiles vs. suicide bombers. Aside from some fancy-schmancy technology, it's the same damn thing.

So you can take your smug, racist opinions and shove them right up your smug, racist ass.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #58)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:32 PM

60. hey, Jeff

maybe it's worth it to you to have your post blocked, but it says some important things. I'd like to see it stay up. Maybe you could take out the first line and use and ellipses in your last.

I share your sentiments.

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Response to cali (Reply #60)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:57 PM

71. If I was on the jury for that post, I'd vote to leave it.

Sometimes, you've got to have some jury nullification.

DU's bigots can eat shit and die.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #71)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:03 PM

72. This entire thread should be deleted...

Pure racist bullshit.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #72)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:04 PM

73. I alerted on it. 4-2 to leave it.

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Response to cali (Reply #73)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:06 PM

74. Just for the record, I was one of the two who voted to hide.

At Sat Sep 15, 2012, 05:38 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Why must we turn the other cheek?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021351923

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"when are they going to join the 21st century". this is just buzz talk for look how backward those Muslims are. The bigotry against Islam is getting really ugly here.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:05 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Bigots can fuck off!
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Evaluate the post as a whole. These are GOOD questions. We are asking these questions of ourselves since 9/11. The cheek reference is regrettable, because it implies a response to Islam with the same violence that we are receiving. We shouldn't turn the other cheek, but our response should be to honestly ask ourselves
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Not a valid anology but the poster makes a fair observation about how some Muslim leaders seem mired in Eighth century thought.
(I totally disagree with him on disengangement though).
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #58)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:25 PM

78. Good post. The racism we thought had at least been forced underground to some extent

was released like a bomb as soon as the Bush War Criminals decided to go to the wrong country to get revenge, or so they said, for something they did not do.

The language directed at Muslims, not just by the ignorant morons on Right Wing sites but even from some of our Generals, was so ugly if it had been directed at any other group they would probably have been charged with a hate crime Threats of death, despicable, ignorant name calling, etc. For a while they had to bury their racism, but now they have been given permission to start all over again.

You could tell they had all that pent up racism just beneath the surface waiting to go off. And it has and it has not stopped since. Hate to see it here though.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:33 PM

62. I turn the other cheek when I can

When I cannot, I fight back with everything I am.

I don't think you can ask for more from a person.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:34 PM

63. Um, I have no recollection of turning the other cheek after 9/11.

If you haven't noticed, we've been bombing the crap out of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq (which had nothing to do with 9/11) for ten years.

We're not entirely blameless, you know.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 06:43 PM

67. "I just wish we'd get out of that entire area, forthwith"

Amen.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:23 PM

77. religions are a dangerous brew......

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:32 PM

80. christian extremist executed a doctor, another bomb an abortion clinic. another extreme christian

ran into an irs building with a plane. another shot a rep in ax and killed innocents. another killed cops on the way to kill dem politicians. another killed a church of people.

when are they going to join us in 21 century. when are the fundamentalist going to progress like the new testament tells them to.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #80)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:41 PM

83. I don't know if this story is apocryphal

Someone once asked Gandhi what he of Western Civilization.

His Response: It would be a good idea.

The story is probably too good to be true, but I like to repeat it anyway.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:43 PM

84. what would you suggest?

was it a particular nation's army that attacked our embassy? who do we retaliate against? should we start a war against the entire RELIGION of Islam? and how do you think THAT's going to turn out?

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:17 PM

88. Because when we don't turn the other cheek

 

We end up bombing the wrong country (Iraq).

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:24 PM

89. Interesting turn of phrase, because aren't we supposed to if we are Christians?

And for the 900th time, because 19 Muslims flew planes into buildings, we don't blame all 2 billion Muslims on the planet. Why is that hard to get?

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:27 PM

95. Because they are victims of Western Imperialism and so are beyond criticism!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #95)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:00 AM

102. BIG difference between understanding, and brainless criticism against them that denies

history.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #95)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:26 AM

109. Do you also think that if you opposed the War in Iraq, you loved Saddam Hussein?

If you oppose bigotry, you are saying that individuals who do wrong are beyond criticism.

Can you explain that giant leap of logic to me please? I asked Bush supporters many times how their minds worked out that opposing one thing meant supporting something totally unrelated but they never explained it.

I'm searching for an explanation to this kind of 'logic'.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #109)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 02:46 PM

112. You seem to still be living in nuanced times.


Haven't you heard?

It's either with "us" or against "them".

This is how far we've come. On DU. After 8 years of being taught in the most extreme way how fraudulent such dichotomies are.

Have people changed that much? Has DU? Have I?

Strange feelings I have, reading this thread. Sadness, mostly.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 11:49 PM

98. You're kidding, right?

Were you sleeping at all the Islamophobia after 9-11 that still continues to this day? And was used, subtly and not-so-subtly, to justify and defend the invasions in Iraq and Afghanistan and turned life into misery for millions? You were here a few days ago ramping up the propaganda against Iran, I find it hard to believe you genuinely want anyone out of that area.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #98)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 11:56 PM

100. I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this trend

But it seems like the same people who spew this anti-Muslim intolerant horseshit also regularly frequent the Gungeon. Kinda makes you go, Hmmmmm.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #100)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:02 AM

104. +1. nt.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 11:59 PM

101. This event has become a defining moment

in finding out who are not as liberal as we expect around here.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:02 AM

105. Someone has to be the grownup, sorry.

As long as we have interests there, whether it be Israel or oil, we will be involved in the region. There is no reason to become hysterical or turn tail and run like scared puppies. If we insist on having interests in the region, it is wise to be peaceful instead of mowing down all the people there.

We turn the other cheek because, as Secretary of State Clinton says, we must be clear-eyed even in our grief.

Many have already mentioned the comparatively few protesters, but I would also mention that the reason they attack us instead of the filmmaker is because they believe that the govt would ban the film if it was not supported by the government--the way it is done in their countries.

We don't have to do a knee-jerk response to isolated incidents just to be macho and prove some violent point. IMO that response is very grade-school.

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 02:37 PM

110. When is Islam going to have its reformation movement?

They had it several centuries before we did.

Arguably, our "reformation" was in part caused by intensifying our contact with the muslim world.

Some things - especially cultural and religious stuff - are more complicated.

Where's the threads talking about how culturally backwards the chinese are? Aren't they burning embassies as we are writing?

DU, DU, que sera? There's a reason why I stopped posting almost entirely.

Edit: Cali, Cali, if it weren't for you. I used to hate your posts - before I noticed how consistent you are. I just can't fathom how disgusting this thread would be without your kind of input. Thanks to everyone who opposed the vileness of the OP.

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #110)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 02:52 PM

114. When are we?

 

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Response to Missycim (Original post)

Sun Sep 16, 2012, 02:51 PM

113. We DIDN'T turn the other cheek!

 

We killed tens of thousands of Muslims over there, and almost ALL of them were innocent of so much as uttering discouraging words about America.

I'm no fan of turning the other cheek myself. Retaliation ensures you won't keep getting victimized. But we didn't turn the other cheek - we went totally, tragically, savagely, monstrously OVERBOARD in our response to 9/11.

Whatever century YOU mistakenly think Muslims are trapped in, we regressed right back to that same lost, shameful period.

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